Jack Stephens

[coalman]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

With due respect football is a little different. Will Still will have access to hours of tapes to show him exactly what each player at his disposal is either capable or not capable of. He doesn't have to rely on asking the opinions of those at the club as he can use his own eyes to come to his decisions. Anyone looking at footage of Stephens wouldn't take long to discover his limitations and his two sending-offs last season should immediately flag that he is not captain or leadership material.

If he's trying to assess leadership and influence he kind of does. And if he's rocked up and had everyone bending his ear about what a great leader Stephens is he needs to do his due diligence. One of the key parts of his job is trying to understand "why were we shit?" because he can't come up with a sane plan until he understands that. It turns out that you can't do that if you're alienating people by having them think you're not giving people a fair chance.

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, aintforever said:

Why does giving Stephens a contract mean it is not?

Have you seen him play?

[SW11_Saint]

1 hour ago, coalman said:

Part of the trouble of going into a low performing organisation is that no one thinks they are low performing which leads to an inflated opinion of the people in leadership roles. I have taken over teams where the initial feedback from people in the team about a particular person is that they are great. It takes time to work through that but you kind of have to operate on trust until you can verify it. In some respects you can't rock the boat until you have data.

That being said - I always assumed that low performance comes from the top and I have yet to be disappointed in that viewpoint. The old saying that "As hire As and Bs hire Cs" probably applies here. It's one of the reason why turning around a broken organisation is so hard because the people doing the hiring ARE the problem. By the same token you also run into the Dead Sea Effect where your lose your best talent and keep your mediocrity and thus mediocrity becomes institutionalised.

Though Spors is new to the organisation, and - on the face of it at least - appears to have a plan. We have to give him a chance to change things. 

[SW11_Saint]

7 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

So to clarify, you think extending Stephens contract for another TWO years is a good idea because :

He's a 'useful' squad player, but he has his limitations and his abilities really aren't that great.

He has a clear leadership role within the group - the group that had the second worst PL record ever, conceding an extraordinary amount of goals and had a failry obvious lack of discipline and motivation.

He has an air of authority - but as above, presumably not enough.

He shouldn't be in the starting line up as there are better options, but he would be fine sitting on the bench.

 

Not sure your dogged determination to back him is quite the 'zinga' you think it is in your head - after all, you can't even summon up a glowing reference for him yourself!

All of the points you mention as being 'useful' would still have existed until 2026 without giving him a 2 year extension....

I’ve already said - and am a little tired of saying - in a perfect world I’d have given him a two year deal, but I assume there has been some negotiation on pay scales for the three year deal. 
 

I won’t repeat the rest as I’m tired of typing the same thing, but it’s happened - we’ll all need to learn to live with it. The world will still keep turning, we’ll win some games, we’ll lose some games, he’ll be good in some, okay in others, and undoubtedly terrible in a few. Try not to lose too much sleep over it…

[SW11_Saint]

Two more people not 💩💩the🛏 over the club captain getting a contract extension…

 

[trousers]

1 hour ago, SW11_Saint said:

the club captain

Just to clarify, are you using the word 'club' because you know that we're going to go back to the Kelvin Davis days of having a 'club captain' (as a ceremonial role) and a different on-field captain (although it could, of course, still be the same person from time to time)? 

If that's the case, then I'm not too fussed that we've given Jack the 'club captain' role.

My concern was that we could've been repeating the Russell Martin mistake of naming a mediocre player as on-field captain that then adversely influences the matchday team selection. 

[SW11_Saint]

4 minutes ago, trousers said:

Just to clarify, are you using the word 'club' because you know that we're going to go back to the Kelvin Davis days of having a 'club captain' (as a ceremonial role) and a different on-field captain (although it could, of course, still be the same person from time to time)? 

If that's the case, then I'm not too fussed that we've given Jack the 'club captain' role.

My concern was that we could've been repeating the Russell Martin mistake of naming a mediocre player as on-field captain that then adversely influences the matchday team selection. 

Using it as I’m sure I heard it elsewhere… and Alfie used the same expression in the pod above. No idea if it means the guy who organises the players pool / bingo on away trips or something more significant. 

I agree though and hope it’s the former and Will selects a certain starter (if Captain material) for the actual team captain so we are not ‘boxed in’ re Jack again. It would be foolhardy imho. 

[saintant]

27 minutes ago, trousers said:

Just to clarify, are you using the word 'club' because you know that we're going to go back to the Kelvin Davis days of having a 'club captain' (as a ceremonial role) and a different on-field captain (although it could, of course, still be the same person from time to time)? 

If that's the case, then I'm not too fussed that we've given Jack the 'club captain' role.

My concern was that we could've been repeating the Russell Martin mistake of naming a mediocre player as on-field captain that then adversely influences the matchday team selection. 

Stephens says how he's proud to be our captain in the recent interview after signing his new contract. Much to my dismay I believe he will be the on field skipper.

[macca155]

This news will have some frothing at the mouth 😂

However, Stephens hasn't been out worst defender by a long way ( very very low bar). He has an edge about him which personally I like to see. Too many of our lightweights get intimidated.

I know it spills out sometimes to idiocy like the Chelsea game, but in a team lacking any sort of leadership, he really is all we have.

Good back up for the Championship, but I've issues with him being the team Captain. Still must have the option of not playing him.

[saintant]

20 minutes ago, macca155 said:

This news will have some frothing at the mouth 😂

However, Stephens hasn't been out worst defender by a long way ( very very low bar). He has an edge about him which personally I like to see. Too many of our lightweights get intimidated.

I know it spills out sometimes to idiocy like the Chelsea game, but in a team lacking any sort of leadership, he really is all we have.

Good back up for the Championship, but I've issues with him being the team Captain. Still must have the option of not playing him.

But why extend his contract? No need to do that as he is not a key player who will have sell-on value.

[SW11_Saint]

39 minutes ago, saintant said:

But why extend his contract? No need to do that as he is not a key player who will have sell-on value.

Not sure but have a hunch it’ll be linked to Bednarek & THB going. If Jack has a smart agent he probably pushed for a longer term to take him up to 34. Security for him, and the club I guess feel it’s worth the investment. 

BTW I’d like THB to stay (who was also very much ‘off boil’ last season), and if he stays he’d be my choice as team captain. Might actually help his development. 

[aintforever]

5 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

We still could have assessed the situation at the end of the season. Absolutely no need to hand out this contract at this time. 

I disagree, if the manager thinks he is an asset to the squad it makes sense to have him invest his future with us, especially if he’s taking on a club captain role. 

[aintforever]

3 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Have you seen him play?

Do you remember how shite the Championship is?

[trousers]

9 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Do you remember how shite the Championship is?

Is that the same Championship where we played better when Stephens was out injured and/or suspended...?

[BarberSaint]

25 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Do you remember how shite the Championship is?

Yep. And he's shite in that, too.

 

I wonder if he'll do his coaching badges with us...

 

"Right lads, here's how to pull someone's hair in front of the camera and get caught and, bollocks, I forgot to mark someone and they've scored. Be right back after my suspension."

[St. Ciervo]

10 minutes ago, BarberSaint said:

Yep. And he's shite in that, too.

 

I wonder if he'll do his coaching badges with us...

 

"Right lads, here's how to pull someone's hair in front of the camera and get caught and, bollocks, I forgot to mark someone and they've scored. Be right back after my suspension."

Our developing players can benefit from watching how not to defend.

[ErwinK1961]

49 minutes ago, trousers said:

Is that the same Championship where we played better when Stephens was out injured and/or suspended...?

We lost a grand total of three games in which he started.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

I disagree, if the manager thinks he is an asset to the squad it makes sense to have him invest his future with us, especially if he’s taking on a club captain role. 

Invest his future? He isn't in his early twenties. His future could have waited until the end of the season to see what league we will be in. 

[trousers]

Just now, ErwinK1961 said:

We lost a grand total of three games in which he started.

Ah, ok, perhaps my memory playing tricks on me then...  How many games did he start,, out of interest? (and how many of those non-defeats were draws Vs wins?)

Cheers 👍🏻

[Dusic]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

Is that the same Championship where we played better when Stephens was out injured and/or suspended...?

In the video linked above Alfie House said of the 11 league games we lost in the Championship only 3 were games where JS started, e.g we actually fared better when he played. He started 20 games.

I'm not sure he is really as bad as some think. Agreed he isn't a starting XI PL player but thats not where we are playing. In the Championship he is a good player IMO, was very good throughout the playoffs where we didnt concede a goal and I can't really see any other viable shouts for a captain.

As Alfie said, you can also imagine that for games like Pompey he does really understand what it means and would get that message across to the new and inexperienced players...

Edited Thursday at 19:39 by Dusic

[ErwinK1961]

21 minutes ago, trousers said:

Ah, ok, perhaps my memory playing tricks on me then...  How many games did he start,, out of interest? (and how many of those non-defeats were draws Vs wins?)

Cheers 👍🏻

Well he missed a large chunk of the unbeaten run that you regularly mock, so there is that.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

1 hour ago, SW11_Saint said:

Not sure but have a hunch it’ll be linked to Bednarek & THB going. If Jack has a smart agent he probably pushed for a longer term to take him up to 34. Security for him, and the club I guess feel it’s worth the investment. 

BTW I’d like THB to stay (who was also very much ‘off boil’ last season), and if he stays he’d be my choice as team captain. Might actually help his development. 

This raises an interesting point. I can see Jack being our team captain this season because of his seniority in the side, he can bellow orders and he wears his colours on his sleeve - but that really is a retro step. So who can take over? I too want THB to step up this year but surely he's too young for captain.

[HarvSFC]

24 minutes ago, trousers said:

Ah, ok, perhaps my memory playing tricks on me then...  How many games did he start,, out of interest? (and how many of those non-defeats were draws Vs wins?)

Cheers 👍🏻

Stephens started 17 of the 46 Championship games that season + 3 play-off starts. 

We won 10 of those + 2 in the play offs. 4 draws + 1 play off draw. 3 losses.

In the 17 league games, we conceded 24 and kept three clean sheets. Two clean sheets in the play-offs, conceding 1.

 

[coalman]

45 minutes ago, Dusic said:

In the video linked above Alfie House said of the 11 league games we lost in the Championship only 3 were games where JS started, e.g we actually fared better when he played. He started 20 games.

I'm not sure he is really as bad as some think. Agreed he isn't a starting XI PL player but thats not where we are playing. In the Championship he is a good player IMO, was very good throughout the playoffs where we didnt concede a goal and I can't really see any other viable shouts for a captain.

As Alfie said, you can also imagine that for games like Pompey he does really understand what it means and would get that message across to the new and inexperienced players...

He appeared in 19 out of 38 premier league games last season. He was suspended for 9 matches of the season. Not sure you can afford your captain to be unavailable for a quarter of the season. 6 of those matches were for a combination of hair pulling and mouthing off to the referee. Is that the example you want to set to new and inexperienced players?

The season before he started less than half the games (17). The season before none because he was out on loan. Season before 13 starts. Season before 9 starts. It doesn't exactly scream first name on the team sheet.

I don't see how he needs a new contract to talk about the importance of the Pompey games.

Edited Thursday at 20:25 by coalman

[imadirtyurchin]

Apologies if this has been done before: after a long discussion with my brother about the merits (or lack) of jack stephens as a saints player. I thought id do a little research : conclusion. he’s completely a player that has lucked into having a top flight football career.

He’s played 164 times for Southampton in 14 seasons… and only 243 pro career games and never more than 28 appearances in a season for us.

Other than a high of 28 appearances in 2019/20 he mostly averaged about 19 games a season when he has played. Otherwise his career is a succession of league one and championship loans whereby on more than one occasion he couldn’t break into the lower league club’s first team. He averaged 16 appearances a season across these 5 lower league loans.

overlaying his appearance history with the fortune of Southampton fc - I would suggest that the worse we’ve performed (and the worse the first team was) generally the more appearances he’s had.

so. But he has experience I hear you cry: well 243 games in 14 seasons… compared to THB who has 163 in 6 seasons and Downes who has 220 in 8 seasons…. I’m not sure his vast experience counts especially when you look at minutes on the pitch…. I started to look it up but I basically then lost interest and then I just decided to despair that we decided to give such a poor player the captaincy and a three year extension at the age of 31. 

 

 

 

 

[SW11_Saint]

2 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

This raises an interesting point. I can see Jack being our team captain this season because of his seniority in the side, he can bellow orders and he wears his colours on his sleeve - but that really is a retro step. So who can take over? I too want THB to step up this year but surely he's too young for captain.

Sometimes it can help develop young players, and he has successfully captained England U21 of course. McMenemy pulled a masterstroke in making Steve Williams captain when he was about 24 I recall and he rose to the challenge (quite a different character to THB though!). 

I do think Taylor might find it a challenge captaining a team where Jack was playing too... 

Edited Thursday at 22:08 by SW11_Saint

[saintant]

2 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

Not sure but have a hunch it’ll be linked to Bednarek & THB going. If Jack has a smart agent he probably pushed for a longer term to take him up to 34. Security for him, and the club I guess feel it’s worth the investment. 

BTW I’d like THB to stay (who was also very much ‘off boil’ last season), and if he stays he’d be my choice as team captain. Might actually help his development. 

If Bednarek and THB go we'll have money to replace them - no need for this to impact Stephens position at the club.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, aintforever said:

Do you remember how shite the Championship is?

It is when we're playing in it.

[Whitey Grandad]

58 minutes ago, imadirtyurchin said:

Apologies if this has been done before: after a long discussion with my brother about the merits (or lack) of jack stephens as a saints player. I thought id do a little research : conclusion. he’s completely a player that has lucked into having a top flight football career.

He’s played 164 times for Southampton in 14 seasons… and only 243 pro career games and never more than 28 appearances in a season for us.

Other than a high of 28 appearances in 2019/20 he mostly averaged about 19 games a season when he has played. Otherwise his career is a succession of league one and championship loans whereby on more than one occasion he couldn’t break into the lower league club’s first team. He averaged 16 appearances a season across these 5 lower league loans.

overlaying his appearance history with the fortune of Southampton fc - I would suggest that the worse we’ve performed (and the worse the first team was) generally the more appearances he’s had.

so. But he has experience I hear you cry: well 243 games in 14 seasons… compared to THB who has 163 in 6 seasons and Downes who has 220 in 8 seasons…. I’m not sure his vast experience counts especially when you look at minutes on the pitch…. I started to look it up but I basically then lost interest and then I just decided to despair that we decided to give such a poor player the captaincy and a three year extension at the age of 31. 

 

 

 

 

Smart work. 

[SW11_Saint]

35 minutes ago, saintant said:

If Bednarek and THB go we'll have money to replace them - no need for this to impact Stephens position at the club.

I don’t believe they’re planning to replace either from what Spors has said. Quashie the only incoming at CB, leaving Wood, Edwards, Stephens, Quashie & Kayi Sanda as squad CBs (I’m discounting ABK, but Bree/Taylor/Charles can also play CB if needed). 

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, Dusic said:

In the video linked above Alfie House said of the 11 league games we lost in the Championship only 3 were games where JS started, e.g we actually fared better when he played. He started 20 games.

I'm not sure he is really as bad as some think. Agreed he isn't a starting XI PL player but thats not where we are playing. In the Championship he is a good player IMO, was very good throughout the playoffs where we didnt concede a goal and I can't really see any other viable shouts for a captain.

As Alfie said, you can also imagine that for games like Pompey he does really understand what it means and would get that message across to the new and inexperienced players...

All of which could’ve been relevant without the need for 3 more years (2 plus the remaining 1) as he was still under contract. Do you genuinely think a 31 year old who ‘is not really as bad as some think’, only played 200 games for us in decade and been loaned out three times is a priority for a contract to 2028?

[SW11_Saint]

1 hour ago, imadirtyurchin said:

Apologies if this has been done before: after a long discussion with my brother about the merits (or lack) of jack stephens as a saints player. I thought id do a little research : conclusion. he’s completely a player that has lucked into having a top flight football career.

He’s played 164 times for Southampton in 14 seasons… and only 243 pro career games and never more than 28 appearances in a season for us.

Other than a high of 28 appearances in 2019/20 he mostly averaged about 19 games a season when he has played. Otherwise his career is a succession of league one and championship loans whereby on more than one occasion he couldn’t break into the lower league club’s first team. He averaged 16 appearances a season across these 5 lower league loans.

overlaying his appearance history with the fortune of Southampton fc - I would suggest that the worse we’ve performed (and the worse the first team was) generally the more appearances he’s had.

so. But he has experience I hear you cry: well 243 games in 14 seasons… compared to THB who has 163 in 6 seasons and Downes who has 220 in 8 seasons…. I’m not sure his vast experience counts especially when you look at minutes on the pitch…. I started to look it up but I basically then lost interest and then I just decided to despair that we decided to give such a poor player the captaincy and a three year extension at the age of 31. 

 

 

 

 

Not disputing all of your conclusions, but there’s always peril in looking purely at stats and not the human beings behind the numbers. I’ve got mates who crow about their team’s ‘better XG’ after their team has lost. Always baffles me… 

[imadirtyurchin]

Just now, SW11_Saint said:

Not disputing all of your conclusions, but there’s always peril in looking purely at stats and not the human beings behind the numbers. I’ve got mates who crow about their team’s ‘better XG’ after their team has lost. Always baffles me… 

Oh yeah, you’re absolutely right. Stats can be made to say anything. Except in this case…, I couldn’t make the stats say that jack stephens was a good player 😆

[SW11_Saint]

4 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

All of which could’ve been relevant without the need for 3 more years (2 plus the remaining 1) as he was still under contract. Do you genuinely think a 31 year old who ‘is not really as bad as some think’, only played 200 games for us in decade and been loaned out three times is a priority for a contract to 2028?

Clearly the club think he is. And at the end of the day, that is what matters. 

[Gloucester Saint]

6 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Clearly the club think he is. And at the end of the day, that is what matters. 

Going by their track record 2017 to present, what the club’s hierarchy thinks doesn’t amount to a hill of beans when it comes to football. Two pathetic relegations, 9-0 x2, Pellegrino and Carrillo, Nathan Jones, £22m on Sulemana, last summer, Martin’s crazy tactics, Forster’s extension and McCarthy’s, both on huge wages - list goes on. 

They’ll get some respect when they earn some back with our fans who have seen decades more top flight, and even second tier football, than they have. Right now, I’d trust our fans’ judgement overall far more than theirs. 

Edited Thursday at 21:41 by Gloucester Saint

[saintant]

17 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

I don’t believe they’re planning to replace either from what Spors has said. Quashie the only incoming at CB, leaving Wood, Edwards, Stephens, Quashie & Kayi Sanda as squad CBs (I’m discounting ABK, but Bree/Taylor/Charles can also play CB if needed). 

I'm fairly sure that statement would have been on the strength of the available squad at that time. Common sense dictates that, if we lose 2-3 star players, the money received will go towards replacements. It's what all successful clubs do so not sure why Spors wouldn't be smart enough to appreciate that - if he's not then he's in the wrong job.

[imadirtyurchin]

5 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Clearly the club think he is. And at the end of the day, that is what matters. 

I think therein lies the real problem…I was hoping hoping hoping that finally we would have people at the club that might look at the past few years of failure and maybe look at the players who’ve “contributed” and come to a different conclusion 🤗 

[SW11_Saint]

Just now, saintant said:

I'm fairly sure that statement would have been on the strength of the available squad at that time. Common sense dictates that, if we lose 2-3 star players, the money received will go towards replacements. It's what all successful clubs do so not sure why Spors wouldn't be smart enough to appreciate that - if he's not then he's in the wrong job.

Pretty sure Spors has indicated he’s only after a CB (done), Striker (done), and attacking midfielder (tbc). 

[saintant]

8 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Clearly the club think he is. And at the end of the day, that is what matters. 

Well if the club was always right we'd not be in the current mess and wouldn't have had to sit through the complete debacle of last season. They have been known to make wrong decisions in case you've not been paying attention.

[saintant]

1 minute ago, SW11_Saint said:

Pretty sure Spors has indicated he’s only after a CB (done), Striker (done), and attacking midfielder (tbc). 

We'll see but I'd be amazed if we sell star players and don't spend the money. It'll be another way to turn the fan base against those running things that's for sure.

[SW11_Saint]

1 minute ago, imadirtyurchin said:

I think therein lies the real problem…I was hoping hoping hoping that finally we would have people at the club that might look at the past few years of failure and maybe look at the players who’ve “contributed” and come to a different conclusion 🤗 

Guess they see value in him being here that not all fans recognise. Not dismissing his playing record or faults, but organisations and staff (rightly or wrongly) are often perceived very differently from within to our outside perspective. 

[Gloucester Saint]

7 minutes ago, imadirtyurchin said:

I think therein lies the real problem…I was hoping hoping hoping that finally we would have people at the club that might look at the past few years of failure and maybe look at the players who’ve “contributed” and come to a different conclusion 🤗 

The impression the Stephens contract leaves is that they’ve learned nothing from three years of chronic mistakes from SR and further back to summer 2017 by Reed, Wilson and then Semmens. That’s why there’s a strong reaction against. It’s much bigger than Jack Stephens per se. It’s mistrust and unease fully warranted by eight mostly shit years and under-performance. Hence Brighton and Bournemouth are the major figures now on the South Coast. Great work SR.

Edited Thursday at 21:49 by Gloucester Saint

[saintant]

Just now, Gloucester Saint said:

The impression the Stephens contract leaves is that they’ve learned nothing from three years of chronic mistakes from SR and further back to summer 2017 by Reed, Wilson and then Semmens. That’s why there’s a strong reaction against. It’s much bigger than Jack Stephens per se. It’s mistrust and unease fully warranted by eight mostly shit years and under-performance. Hence Brighton and Bournemouth are the major figures now on the South Coast. Great work SR.

Spot on.

[SW11_Saint]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

We'll see but I'd be amazed if we sell star players and don't spend the money. It'll be another way to turn the fan base against those running things that's for sure.

I honestly think Edwards, Wood, Stephens, Quashie and Kayi Sanda (+Bree/Charles) is more than adequate CB strength in this division. 

[Challenger]

The extremely low bar set last season clearly hasn't been raised.

[saintant]

Just now, SW11_Saint said:

I honestly think Edwards, Wood, Stephens, Quashie and Kayi Sanda (+Bree/Charles) is more than adequate CB strength in this division. 

So you'd presumably be happy if we sell Ramsdale, Fernandes, Dibling, Bednarek and THB and spend only on one attacking midfielder because that's the only position you think is left to fill after comments from Spors. Can you imagine the outcry from the majority of the fanbase?

[SW11_Saint]

7 minutes ago, saintant said:

Well if the club was always right we'd not be in the current mess and wouldn't have had to sit through the complete debacle of last season. They have been known to make wrong decisions in case you've not been paying attention.

10 minutes ago, saintant said:

Well if the club was always right we'd not be in the current mess and wouldn't have had to sit through the complete debacle of last season. They have been known to make wrong decisions in case you've not been paying attention.

But you’re comparing apples (Ankersen) and oranges (Spors). I suggest we delay judgement on Spors (& Still) until he’s got a full season under his belt. 

[Gloucester Saint]

Just now, SW11_Saint said:

I honestly think Edwards, Wood, Stephens, Quashie and Kayi Sanda (+Bree/Charles) is more than adequate CB strength in this division. 

Adequate doesn’t get you automatic promotion which is supposedly what Still has been set to aim for. Wood is not an adequate Champ CB either - have a watch of this. If the club had paid attention, Martin wouldn’t have been allowed to sign him. And Quashie hasn’t played a minute in the Championship, Kayi Sanda barely a couple of promising PL sub cameos. Edwards has 18 months experience and a good half-season loan at QPR but he will 100% need experience - high quality experience for this level - if Jan and THB leave. Unless the club are repeating the 08/09 experiment. Brum, Ipswich et al won’t be relying on a u23 back line like the above and that’s the minimum bar for Southampton Football Club.

 

[saintant]

1 minute ago, SW11_Saint said:

 

Fair point but maybe judge Spors if he allows the sale of Ramsdale, Fernandes, Dibling, THB and Bednarek and spends none of the money on replacements.

[imadirtyurchin]

7 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Guess they see value in him being here that not all fans recognise. Not dismissing his playing record or faults, but organisations and staff (rightly or wrongly) are often perceived very differently from within to our outside perspective. 

See, I actually think you’re right - and he must have some perceived value around the club as they are paying him a lot of money to be there and for longer. I don’t have a problem with that bit really - I have a problem with an arguably poor quality player (proven with a pretty mediocre career and stats) with stupid disciplinary problems being captain and therefore pretty much guaranteeing himself to be on the pitch and an important part of the 11. We should be aiming for better. I want to improve the team not reward a historically bad season. I don’t mind if they think he’s good for morale and the dressing room. Let him put the cones out. As he’s captain he’ll play.