The Burnham Years - Can the new(ish) broom sweep clean?

[Challenger]

4 hours ago, egg said:

What's going well? 

What's your metric for us doing better? Our inflation is higher, ditto interest rates, our gilt yields much higher, and quality of life lower. 

I voted leave and acknowledge it was a terrible choice. We've not seen a single benefit from Brexit, not one. 

Don't have to put up with some nonentity bureaucrat from somewhere like Luxembourg or Liechtenstein telling us what to do on a daily basis anymore.

Apart from that I don't think there's been any benefits at all. If making moves to rejoin pisses off Trump then yeah, go for it.

[Challenger]

3 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

 

David Brent with zero charisma or good ideas and no mandate. 

Leading the country further into decline based on delusional thinking and lack of economic understanding. 

But apart from that he’s alright, I guess 
 

It's not in anyone's interest for him to fail because, honestly we would have no Idea as to what would come next.

[Sir Ralph]

16 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

How is that prejudicial? It’s the truth. 

The lefts entire playbook is to demonise hard work and steal as much as possible 

Funnily enough pretty much everyone I speak to in business says something similar. People are fed up with their hard earned business revenue being increasingly taxed, in various ways, and it going on the gravy train

Edited yesterday at 13:35 by Sir Ralph

[Sir Ralph]

8 minutes ago, Challenger said:

It's not in anyone's interest for him to fail because, honestly we would have no Idea as to what would come next.

I don’t want him to fail but ann approach of tax and spend is flawed. Starmer did the same and numerous people said that it wasn’t sustainable and guess what….the Tories could have turned the tide and didn’t 

If he is a serious politician (I agree that barely any are) he will take a proportionate approach to taxing and spending. I think people are concerned that this won’t be the case but the budget will clarify that

Edited yesterday at 13:41 by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

https://www.ft.com/content/c8693313-7750-40c7-892a-101ab16dec70?syn-25a6b1a6=1

Definitely need to be more like the US though 🤔

[badgerx16]

25 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

How is that prejudicial? It’s the truth. 

The lefts entire playbook is to demonise hard work and steal as much as possible 

There you go again. "Blinkered" doesn't go far enough to describe your viewpoint. 

I acknowledge you are entitled to your opinion, but reserve the right to say it is bollox.

[Farmer Saint]

Just a small reminder to those that think our economy is shit...it's not amazing, but we're doing better than a lot of others.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-economy-grew-by-05-q2-2026-ons-says-2026-09-30/

 

Edited yesterday at 13:48 by Farmer Saint

[badgerx16]

13 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Funnily enough pretty much everyone I speak to in business says something similar. People are fed up with their hard earned business revenue being increasingly taxed, in various ways, and it going on the gravy train

I wonder if you speak to the same people that SOGgy does.

[Osvaldorama]

7 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Just a small reminder to those that think our economy is shit...it's not amazing, but we're doing better than a lot of others.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-economy-grew-by-05-q2-2026-ons-says-2026-09-30/

 

You are being hoodwinked by bad data. 
 

Our economy is collapsing. If you zoom out we are descending from a global leading economy to a third world country.
 

The actual data is clear. 

[Sir Ralph]

35 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I wonder if you speak to the same people that SOGgy does.

Great response. These tend to be successful and experienced business owners within property and land, albeit with diversification / investment into other areas. Some of the responses from you and your friends are frankly immature and embarrassing. You can’t debate things and just come up with slurs again and again. 

Edited yesterday at 14:25 by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

11 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Great response. These tend to be successful and experienced business owners within property and land, albeit with diversification / investment into other areas. Some of the responses from you and your friends are frankly immature and embarrassing. You can’t debate things and just come up with slurs

As you might agree, it is difficult to "debate" with entrenched inflexible views, so why should we bother to try with you ?

Strangely, I also know successful and experienced business owners, with interests in property and with substantial land holdings, many of whom hold views that do not totally concur with yours.

Edited yesterday at 14:30 by badgerx16

[iansums]

49 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Just a small reminder to those that think our economy is shit...it's not amazing, but we're doing better than a lot of others.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-economy-grew-by-05-q2-2026-ons-says-2026-09-30/

 

Despite Brexit.

[Sir Ralph]

23 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

As you might agree, it is difficult to "debate" with entrenched inflexible views, so why should we bother to try with you ?

Strangely, I also know successful and experienced business owners, with interests in property and with substantial land holdings, many of whom hold views that do not totally concur with yours.

I believe you have entrenched views also. 

I i would be interested to know what these people are involved in as they would certainly be bucking the trend compared to lots of the people I work with who are pretty unanimous in terms of their view. What types of properties / land do they own? Do they rent their portfolio to local authorities?
 

Edited yesterday at 14:55 by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

5 minutes ago, iansums said:

Despite Brexit.

True - which shows what a stellar job is being done. The data shows that. Imagine if we had that extra £100bn per annum.

[iansums]

3 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I believe you have entrenched views also. 

I i would be interested to know what these people are involved in as they would certainly be bucking the trend compared to lots of the people I work with who are pretty unanimous in terms of their view. What types of properties / land do they own? 
 

[Sir Ralph]

1 minute ago, iansums said:

I keep landing on bloody super tax!

[badgerx16]

31 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I believe you have entrenched views also. 

I i would be interested to know what these people are involved in as they would certainly be bucking the trend compared to lots of the people I work with who are pretty unanimous in terms of their view. What types of properties / land do they own? Do they rent their portfolio to local authorities?
 

When it comes to lacking debating skills, consistently resorting to referring dismissively to those holding contrary views to yours as "commies" or "lefties", whilst personally I couldn't care less, is obviously intended as a ( not too clever ) barb.

As to the people I referred to, some are in large scale property development, others are land owners whose land is used for produce supplied to major retailers.

 

[Sir Ralph]

27 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

When it comes to lacking debating skills, consistently resorting to referring dismissively to those holding contrary views to yours as "commies" or "lefties", whilst personally I couldn't care less, is obviously intended as a ( not too clever ) barb.

As to the people I referred to, some are in large scale property development, others are land owners whose land is used for produce supplied to major retailers.

 

Yes big commercial buildings have been doing well for a number of years, including logistics sites, due to a lack of them rather than the success of economic policy but they have mainly been left to get on with it. Most other people aren’t as optimistic based on the direction of travel. Unlike residential co living student and hotel simple box commercial buildings haven’t been hammered by various taxes and charges which are increasingly scaring of investors. It sort of makes my point, the less government intervention / tax / bureaucracy the market system actually works well. Tamper and fiddle too much and it doesn’t 

Edited yesterday at 15:51 by Sir Ralph

[whelk]

55 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I believe you have entrenched views also. 

I i would be interested to know what these people are involved in as they would certainly be bucking the trend compared to lots of the people I work with who are pretty unanimous in terms of their view. What types of properties / land do they own? Do they rent their portfolio to local authorities?
 

Presumably as myopic as you, struggling to understand economies and the part global shocks play, not commies taxing you and the working class claiming benefits? You crave a society where you keep everything and that is idealogical, nothing to do with being a businessmen. 
What are your thoughts on CEO salaries out pacing typical workers pay by something like 20 times in 2025? Is that the commies?
 

[Sir Ralph]

38 minutes ago, whelk said:

Presumably as myopic as you, struggling to understand economies and the part global shocks play, not commies taxing you and the working class claiming benefits? You crave a society where you keep everything and that is idealogical, nothing to do with being a businessmen. 
What are your thoughts on CEO salaries out pacing typical workers pay by something like 20 times in 2025? Is that the commies?
 

I understand global shocks impact economies but it’s not that simple either. Government economic policies play a role, including government spending on welfare, and if the policies dont play a role why have economic policies! I don’t expect to keep everything - I expect a system that rewards hard work and risk and doesn’t encourage or reward people not to. If you’re employed 9-5pm and do that don’t expect to earn the big bucks and then moan about it and say others should be taxed more. I expect value for money for the tax being paid not for it to be pissed away on employing more and more bureaucrats who make business harder.
 

Again you are looking at things too simplistically. People that earn a lot more typically work a lot harder, have more stress and significantly more responsibility and take significantly more risks to make that money originally and continue to make it, including putting personal guarantees in place to start businesses and secure investment etc. I have no problem with people making 20 times the money if they are worth it, continue to grow and business and keep people in jobs (I previously said I support increased pay for good senior people in the public sector). Again easy to look at a figure and say it’s unfair but that is a failure to understand the context and that the country needs to reward such people. If you want to apply that logic why should an officer worker get paid 4-5 times that of a cleaner in that office.

 

Edited yesterday at 16:28 by Sir Ralph

[egg]

2 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

https://www.ft.com/content/c8693313-7750-40c7-892a-101ab16dec70?syn-25a6b1a6=1

Definitely need to be more like the US though 🤔

Our 10 years are above theirs, and growing scarily quickly. Latest figures below. 

The FTSE was up this am and the 10 years down, and those positions reversed during the day. 

The markets will inevitably fall when yields are this attractive. I'm starting to move things around a wee bit. 

Edited yesterday at 16:23 by egg

[whelk]

21 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I understand global shocks impact economies but it’s not that simple either. Government economic policies play a role and if they don’t why have them! I don’t expect to keep everything - I expect a system that rewards hard work and risk and doesn’t encourage or reward people not to. If you’re employed 9-5pm and do that don’t expect to earn the big bucks and then moan about it and say others should be taxed more. I expect value for money for the tax being paid not for it to be pissed away on employing more and more bureaucrats who make business harder.
 

Again you are looking at things too simplistically. People that earn a lot more typically work a lot harder, have more stress and significantly more responsibility and take significantly more risks to make that money originally and continue to make it, including putting personal guarantees in place to start businesses and secure investment etc. I have no problem with people making 20 times the money if they are worth it, continue to grow and business and keep people in jobs (I previously said I support increased pay for good senior people in the public sector). Again easy to look at a figure and say it’s unfair but that is a failure to understand the context and that the country needs to reward such people. That’s the problem with the politics of envy. If you want to apply that logic why should an officer worker get paid 4-5 times that of a cleaner in that office.

 

It was the outpacing rate ie rising dramatically faster. It is not a case of hard work not being rewarded - what planet are you on if you think that doesn’t exist in the UK?  I sympathise a little on public sector bloat but most of them won’t be earning great salaries.  I really think you have a defeatist attitude - times are hard for many no doubt and when people tighten their belts clearly some businesses will be adversely impacted as disposable income shrinks.

Politics of envy?  I’ve been on higher tax rate pretty much all of my career. Not one of my family has claimed one penny in benefits. Only ever had child benefit that ceased as soon as means tested - so would very much say I was a net contributor. However I don’t see everyone on benefits as scroungers, although of course some are. Most people aspire to earn more and very few sit back and think they will have a life of Riley on benefits, they just hope for opportunities. As often said so many adverse factors affecting society, many outside of any political control. You seem not to be able to grasp that. Those with assets are benefiting far more than those without, year on year, but you seem to the think it is moving towards an equilibrium as the poor are taking your money.
 

[Gloucester Saint]

5 hours ago, egg said:

I'm not sure he was authentic. In opposition he was completely different. He kicked Boris around the commons in PMQ's and looked like he could be brilliant. Then he got the gig and was completely different. Kind of a labour version of John Major, but worse.

That, and the island of strangers speech was clearly bollocks and counter to everything he had done in a distinguished career.

It’d be like me telling people they shouldn’t drink quality real ales or craft beers, or Turkish saying going to the gym or fitness is a waste of time. 

[iansums]

41 minutes ago, whelk said:

It was the outpacing rate ie rising dramatically faster. It is not a case of hard work not being rewarded - what planet are you on if you think that doesn’t exist in the UK?  I sympathise a little on public sector bloat but most of them won’t be earning great salaries.  I really think you have a defeatist attitude - times are hard for many no doubt and when people tighten their belts clearly some businesses will be adversely impacted as disposable income shrinks.

Politics of envy?  I’ve been on higher tax rate pretty much all of my career. Not one of my family has claimed one penny in benefits. Only ever had child benefit that ceased as soon as means tested - so would very much say I was a net contributor. However I don’t see everyone on benefits as scroungers, although of course some are. Most people aspire to earn more and very few sit back and think they will have a life of Riley on benefits, they just hope for opportunities. As often said so many adverse factors affecting society, many outside of any political control. You seem not to be able to grasp that. Those with assets are benefiting far more than those without, year on year, but you seem to the think it is moving towards an equilibrium as the poor are taking your money.
 

A very reasoned and articulate post from you Whelk although I am a little disappointed you were unable to slip the word ‘cunt’ in there.🙃

[Sir Ralph]

44 minutes ago, whelk said:

It was the outpacing rate ie rising dramatically faster. It is not a case of hard work not being rewarded - what planet are you on if you think that doesn’t exist in the UK?  I sympathise a little on public sector bloat but most of them won’t be earning great salaries.  I really think you have a defeatist attitude - times are hard for many no doubt and when people tighten their belts clearly some businesses will be adversely impacted as disposable income shrinks.

Politics of envy?  I’ve been on higher tax rate pretty much all of my career. Not one of my family has claimed one penny in benefits. Only ever had child benefit that ceased as soon as means tested - so would very much say I was a net contributor. However I don’t see everyone on benefits as scroungers, although of course some are. Most people aspire to earn more and very few sit back and think they will have a life of Riley on benefits, they just hope for opportunities. As often said so many adverse factors affecting society, many outside of any political control. You seem not to be able to grasp that. Those with assets are benefiting far more than those without, year on year, but you seem to the think it is moving towards an equilibrium as the poor are taking your money.
 

Fair enough that’s a pretty balanced response. My view is simply that government has become too interventionist and we have created too much reliance on the state, hence increased state spending and taxes, etc. that doesn’t mean that I think every single person on benefits is a scrounger or lazy or that people shouldn’t be helped when they genuinely need it. 

I just think the better long term answer is lower taxes rewarding work and risk and making it easier for businesses to invest and grow. That creates jobs and opportunities and ultimately a more aspirational society rather than continually increasing redistribution

[Farmer Saint]

I think there are a few people on this thread that need to give this song a good listen...

"I'm alright Jack, keep your hands off of my stack".

 

Edited yesterday at 19:03 by Farmer Saint

[Osvaldorama]

Burnham siding with oil billionaires over the working man’s game. 
 

Another deceitful champagne socialist… quelle surprise 

[Weston Super Saint]

39 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Burnham siding with oil billionaires over the working man’s game. 
 

Another deceitful champagne socialist… quelle surprise 

I'm amazed he could find any left.

[Farmer Saint]

13 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I'm amazed he could find any left.

Which, billionaires or working men?

[Osvaldorama]

Andy Burnham may have inadvertently revealed just how much of a corrupting influence the UAE have been to the wider public. 
 

Seems many palms may have been greased in Manchester Council? 
 

[whelk]

14 hours ago, iansums said:

A very reasoned and articulate post from you Whelk although I am a little disappointed you were unable to slip the word ‘cunt’ in there.🙃

As said tbf to Ralph he is always polite. Also have called him a cunt a fair few times before 😀

[egg]

The FTSE has fallen on it's arse this morning, and the 10 years are at 5.5% 

Dangerous territory. 

[iansums]

1 hour ago, egg said:

The FTSE has fallen on it's arse this morning, and the 10 years are at 5.5% 

Dangerous territory. 

Maybe I won't bother checking my pension pot tomorrow 😞

[Osvaldorama]

2 hours ago, egg said:

The FTSE has fallen on it's arse this morning, and the 10 years are at 5.5% 

Dangerous territory. 

Yes, the bond crisis is almost getting to the point where something breaks again. 
The debt burden is unsustainable. 

Because successive governments have ignored economic reality, we are almost at the point where the IMF will step in and carry out bailouts and enforce austerity. 

The state is too big. Public spending is out of control. Our fiscal rules are a convenient nonsense - designed to kick the can of financial reality into the future. We need to get real … and take bold action to tame the growth of spending, push back a now totally over-bearing state and snap the British economy out of today’s high-tax-high-borrowing-low-growth doom loop - the result of myopic, counter-productive policy-making by successive governments for the last decade and more …

 

But I guess people will throw insults at realists instead of listening, as usual 🤷‍♂️ 

[iansums]

2 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Yes, the bond crisis is almost getting to the point where something breaks again. 
The debt burden is unsustainable. 

Because successive governments have ignored economic reality, we are almost at the point where the IMF will step in and carry out bailouts and enforce austerity. 

The state is too big. Public spending is out of control. Our fiscal rules are a convenient nonsense - designed to kick the can of financial reality into the future. We need to get real … and take bold action to tame the growth of spending, push back a now totally over-bearing state and snap the British economy out of today’s high-tax-high-borrowing-low-growth doom loop - the result of myopic, counter-productive policy-making by successive governments for the last decade and more …

 

But I guess people will throw insults at realists instead of listening, as usual 🤷‍♂️ 

I think you might have got away with it but for that last sentance.

[aintforever]

39 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Yes, the bond crisis is almost getting to the point where something breaks again. 
The debt burden is unsustainable. 

Because successive governments have ignored economic reality, we are almost at the point where the IMF will step in and carry out bailouts and enforce austerity. 

The state is too big. Public spending is out of control. Our fiscal rules are a convenient nonsense - designed to kick the can of financial reality into the future. We need to get real … and take bold action to tame the growth of spending, push back a now totally over-bearing state and snap the British economy out of today’s high-tax-high-borrowing-low-growth doom loop - the result of myopic, counter-productive policy-making by successive governments for the last decade and more …

 

But I guess people will throw insults at realists instead of listening, as usual 🤷‍♂️ 

You're a twat.

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Osvaldorama said:

Yes, the bond crisis is almost getting to the point where something breaks again. 
The debt burden is unsustainable. 

Because successive governments have ignored economic reality, we are almost at the point where the IMF will step in and carry out bailouts and enforce austerity. 

The state is too big. Public spending is out of control. Our fiscal rules are a convenient nonsense - designed to kick the can of financial reality into the future. We need to get real … and take bold action to tame the growth of spending, push back a now totally over-bearing state and snap the British economy out of today’s high-tax-high-borrowing-low-growth doom loop - the result of myopic, counter-productive policy-making by successive governments for the last decade and more …

 

But I guess people will throw insults at realists instead of listening, as usual 🤷‍♂️ 

I actually agree with much of the general theme of this, but not the phraseology or ideological slant.

[Challenger]

Best all stock up on Kruggerrands then.

Edited 9 hours ago by Challenger

[Osvaldorama]

54 minutes ago, aintforever said:

You're a twat.

😂 thank you for proving my point. 
 

The electorate is too stupid to have a successful country. They keep ignoring reality and voting for idiots. 

[egg]

4 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

😂 thank you for proving my point. 
 

The electorate is too stupid to have a successful country. They keep ignoring reality and voting for idiots. 

Hopefully they ignore the reality they face if voting for Nigel or Lowe.  As much as I broadly agree with you as to where our economy is at, an austerity system under reform (or Lowe's lot) is not the answer. 

Alas, the Tories (not helped by COVID, granted) made a bad situation a lot worse, and left no platform for any government to easily build on.

[egg]

2 hours ago, iansums said:

Maybe I won't bother checking my pension pot tomorrow 😞

Wise. The only consolation is I think there'll be a big dip to buy in.

[whelk]

The gimp is out of his box

[The Kraken]

9 minutes ago, egg said:

Wise. The only consolation is I think there'll be a big dip to buy in.

FTSE has rebounded somewhat, it’s not half as bad as it was looking first thing this morning. A good bit still to recover though.

The perils of having an HL app on my phone means I check in on my investments far too often, it’s great when they go up, spirit crushing when the markets crash and you see money disappearing before you’re very eyes.

[Sir Ralph]

42 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

😂 thank you for proving my point. 
 

The electorate is too stupid to have a successful country. They keep ignoring reality and voting for idiots. 

@aintforever there is a well known phrase which has the words “shoot” and “foot” in it that could be applied to your response. He applied the comment to governments across the last 10 years so it wasn’t party political. Of what he said what is incorrect or is it right and you don’t like it?

Edited 8 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

48 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

😂 thank you for proving my point. 
 

The electorate is too stupid to have a successful country. They keep ignoring reality and voting for idiots. 

The problem is, who to vote for if only idiots are standing ?

[egg]

1 hour ago, The Kraken said:

FTSE has rebounded somewhat, it’s not half as bad as it was looking first thing this morning. A good bit still to recover though.

The perils of having an HL app on my phone means I check in on my investments far too often, it’s great when they go up, spirit crushing when the markets crash and you see money disappearing before you’re very eyes.

Yep, although the issue is more the see saw of 10 years going up and stock down. Those 10 years are frighteningly high. There'll come a point where the bonds are the safer investment...I suspect this morning was the start of investor shift. 

Re HL, I've transferred my SIPP to HL, and am moving ISA over. The fees are so much lower, and the positive of the app being a bit shit is I don't spend time looking at it!!

[The Kraken]

FTSE has shit itself again this afternoon.

[iansums]

2 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

FTSE has shit itself again this afternoon.

As have I, thanks . Gone are the days of only getting a statement every six months, I look at my app every morning. As you say, great when it's going up.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, iansums said:

As have I, thanks . Gone are the days of only getting a statement every six months, I look at my app every morning. As you say, great when it's going up.

I record the values of mine at the end of each month - generally the trend is up over a month so it's not so bad.  They were just about recovered from Trump's fuck ups earlier in the year last month, probably on the slide again now!