The point gained nonsense

[Legod Third Coming]

I have heard quoted - even by the club's management - this total nonsense about 'this may be the point that makes the difference' as some form of justification for failing to despatch teams we really should be thumping.

 

And it is a nonsense.

 

If we stay up by one point, it is ludicrous to suggest it is the 'point gained at xx fc' which makes the difference. It's not.

 

What is a fact, is that every time we draw against a poor side like Blackpool we have dropped two points and every time we lose against them, three.

 

If we cannot get this mentality into our club we will be the perennial underdogs and underachievers so many seem hell bent on preserving.

 

We need to start adopting an approach that demands winning. Second place is just the first loser, tell the players.

 

If we stay up, by some minor miracle, whatever points we have garnered will be 30-40 less than any half-decent, motivated outfit, focusing on the basics of football could have achieved in this division of mediocrity punctuated by the occasional spell of entertainment.

[Wes Tender]

I have heard quoted - even by the club's management - this total nonsense about 'this may be the point that makes the difference' as some form of justification for failing to despatch teams we really should be thumping.

 

And it is a nonsense.

 

If we stay up by one point, it is ludicrous to suggest it is the 'point gained at xx fc' which makes the difference. It's not.

 

What is a fact, is that every time we draw against a poor side like Blackpool we have dropped two points and every time we lose against them, three.

 

If we cannot get this mentality into our club we will be the perennial underdogs and underachievers so many seem hell bent on preserving.

 

We need to start adopting an approach that demands winning. Second place is just the first loser, tell the players.

 

If we stay up, by some minor miracle, whatever points we have garnered will be 30-40 less than any half-decent, motivated outfit, focusing on the basics of football could have achieved in this division of mediocrity punctuated by the occasional spell of entertainment.

 

I couldn't agree more. It is all about mentality. If we went to Blackpool hoping to gain just the one point, then the aim would have been achieved, but if we went there with that mentality, then we had probably spoiled our chances of winning, as our mind set was not attuned to it. On the other hand, if we had the correct mentality that we were going to win this match, then we have failed and it is certainly 2 points dropped. IMO, as it is only Blackpool and not Wolves, Reading or Birmingham, there is no way that we should have travelled expecting only a point and if we have adopted this mentality, then we are definitely doomed to 3rd division football.

[Weston Saint]

Ot of interest quote from Blackpool Manager on BBC

 

Blackpool boss Tony Parkes:

"We set out not to lose this game and we achieved that point. We have gone four games unbeaten but I still think we need two more wins to reach safety.

 

"We missed one or two chances in the first half which would have killed the game off and they came back strongly at us.

 

"And we got our luck at the end when they hit the post and the ball rebounded so fast their players following it in could not get at the ball."

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/7937193.stm

[70's Mike]

Ot of interest quote from Blackpool Manager on BBC

 

Blackpool boss Tony Parkes:

"We set out not to lose this game and we achieved that point. We have gone four games unbeaten but I still think we need two more wins to reach safety.

 

"We missed one or two chances in the first half which would have killed the game off and they came back strongly at us.

 

"And we got our luck at the end when they hit the post and the ball rebounded so fast their players following it in could not get at the ball."

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/7937193.stm

 

HE could have added that "we have maintained the gap between ourselves and Southampton"

[ottery st mary]

Not interested in what Parkes or Blackpool think or say..Or any other team in this league.

WE have become a VERY POOR side amongst many other poor teams and we are so obviously struggling to even compete with these many poor sides..Downward slope all season with very poor excuses given by Directors, Coach/Manager and too many fans of late..We are terrible and not improving..Very Sad.

[Legod Third Coming]

Not interested in what Parkes or Blackpool think or say..Or any other team in this league.

WE have become a VERY POOR side amongst many other poor teams and we are so obviously struggling to even compete with these many poor sides..Downward slope all season with very poor excuses given by Directors, Coach/Manager and too many fans of late..We are terrible and not improving..Very Sad.

 

We must get back the mentality that saw us beat Preston and Cardiff.

 

This was not (to my untrained eye) anything to do with either of those team's approaches, but to do with our state of mind and effort.

 

In both games we were 'at 'em' from the off - high tempo, high-line, chasing, harrying and really looking like we wanted it. We even looked confident!

 

Having won three games on the spin - the usual 'we've done enough' attitude seems to have crept back in and we are not IMPOSING ourselves.

 

We need to ignore league position and play according to the experience and quality within the team, not according to our 'hard-done-by' mentality...

[Channon's Sideburns]

I've said it before this season.

 

This year is a carbon copy of when we were relegated from the Prem.

 

1. Poor appointment of 'coach';

 

2. Changing coach too late when damage is done;

 

3. Squad high on quantity, not quality;

 

4. Appointing a coach too late - who can do something but not with one hand behind his back.

 

'Rupert Lowe's definitive guide to fookin over a Football Club'

Endorsed by Guy Askham, Mike Richards, Old Man Withers from the Amusement Park, Our Man on the Terraces Mike Wilde and David Windsor-Clive.

[ottery st mary]

We must get back the mentality that saw us beat Preston and Cardiff.

 

This was not (to my untrained eye) anything to do with either of those team's approaches, but to do with our state of mind and effort.

 

In both games we were 'at 'em' from the off - high tempo, high-line, chasing, harrying and really looking like we wanted it. We even looked confident!

 

Having won three games on the spin - the usual 'we've done enough' attitude seems to have crept back in and we are not IMPOSING ourselves.

 

We need to ignore league position and play according to the experience and quality within the team, not according to our 'hard-done-by' mentality...

 

You and I get Dutch passports and we could get taken on at St Marys by Rupert..He wouldn't guess we are in disguise and play to win games without any stupid experiments and five year plans....The yuf come into the side if and when good enough..But first and foremost a football side that makes sense..job done for next season.:cool:..Hopefully in the CCC but unless a miracle comes by Div 1.:mad:

[rpb]

 

If we stay up by one point, it is ludicrous to suggest it is the 'point gained at xx fc' which makes the difference. It's not.

 

I'm not so sure - when we were in relegation trouble under Branfoot, I bumped into Tommy Traynor at a garage and commented that he should get his boots out again, he said that we needed to fight for a point every time we played if we were to get out of the mess.

 

I agree that three points are better though...

[70's Mike]

I'm not so sure - when we were in relegation trouble under Branfoot, I bumped into Tommy Traynor at a garage and commented that he should get his boots out again, he said that we needed to fight for a point every time we played if we were to get out of the mess.

 

I agree that three points are better though...

 

 

suspect that was said with a lot more games left than now

[Wes Tender]

I'm not so sure - when we were in relegation trouble under Branfoot, I bumped into Tommy Traynor at a garage and commented that he should get his boots out again, he said that we needed to fight for a point every time we played if we were to get out of the mess.

 

I agree that three points are better though...

 

Really? Did he say that we should fight for a point, or every point? With the stupid system whereby three draws is equivalent to one win and two defeats, a point a game is unlikely to keep us up unless others around us have at least two draws and a loss instead.

[SaintRobbie]

I have heard quoted - even by the club's management - this total nonsense about 'this may be the point that makes the difference' as some form of justification for failing to despatch teams we really should be thumping.

 

And it is a nonsense.

 

If we stay up by one point, it is ludicrous to suggest it is the 'point gained at xx fc' which makes the difference. It's not.

 

What is a fact, is that every time we draw against a poor side like Blackpool we have dropped two points and every time we lose against them, three.

 

If we cannot get this mentality into our club we will be the perennial underdogs and underachievers so many seem hell bent on preserving.

 

We need to start adopting an approach that demands winning. Second place is just the first loser, tell the players.

 

If we stay up, by some minor miracle, whatever points we have garnered will be 30-40 less than any half-decent, motivated outfit, focusing on the basics of football could have achieved in this division of mediocrity punctuated by the occasional spell of entertainment.

 

Agreed 100%. Draws are only to be played for in the last minute when a goal down.

 

We have created a team of nobodies this season. Stripped of men and those who did stay humiliated through club selection policy.

 

Lowe = consolidate, consolidate, consolidate. Wrong strategy for a football club. Wrong strategy for elite sportsmen, from the top down it should be our policy to demand success and sack failure. Starting with Lowe, the biggest failure of all.

[OldNick]

More important was te point lost against Sheff utd. The manager went for 3 points instread of consolidating and taking 1. that could be vital.

[Wes Tender]

More important was te point lost against Sheff utd. The manager went for 3 points instread of consolidating and taking 1. that could be vital.

 

Thank God that we didn't have that attitude against Sheffield Utd last season...

[Legod Third Coming]

More important was te point lost against Sheff utd. The manager went for 3 points instread of consolidating and taking 1. that could be vital.

 

That's my 'point' Nick - none and all are vital. At the end of the season, we have accrued x many points - take any away and it is vital.

 

However many it is, it will be exactly the number we deserve and WELL BELOW what any half-decent side should muster.

 

But you cannot single out one point and say it was 'the' one that made the difference. They all count the same.

 

We need to stop talking as a club about gaining a point and talk about losing two (or three). It's a mentality shift that is needed.

[rpb]

Really? Did he say that we should fight for a point, or every point? With the stupid system whereby three draws is equivalent to one win and two defeats, a point a game is unlikely to keep us up unless others around us have at least two draws and a loss instead.

 

He definitely said 'a point' - it surprised me too. The emphasis was on 'fight' though and the message was 'every little bit can help get us out of a mess'.

[Whitey Grandad]

I must admit that I have been concerned in a couple of home games lately where we have been drawing a game and Wotte tries to bring a sub on in injury time. To me, this indicates a complete misunderstanding of our predicament.

[NickG]

going by the last 3 games, a point per game seems to be our form.

 

Still if us, Plymouth and Notts Forest keep to the form of the last 3 games, a point a game will give us 3 to spare!

[St Marco]

100% agree and is what i've tried to explain to people but they don't quite grasp it. If you draw with a team they stay where they are and so do you in corospondence to each other. To gain on that team you must win against them. With Blackpool they are a team a few weeks ago who were 1 place above us and 2 points ahead. Now they are 6 places ahead of us and 7 points ahead. The last 4 games we have got 3 points. If we get 3 points from the next 4 games i doubt we will be staying up. Thus we must win and must win against the teams we are catching. A draw to teams like Blackpool suits them more then us. If we draw the last 7 games then think we will be down. I wasen't at the Blackpool game but was at the previous 3. I think we were lucky to come away from those games with 2 points due to being negative tactics wise. People have said the same for the Blackpool game. Charlton is such a massive game now that i can imagine if we play for a draw like the QPR and Derby games Wotte could get a bit of stick.

[Thedelldays]

100% agree and is what i've tried to explain to people but they don't quite grasp it. If you draw with a team they stay where they are and so do you in corospondence to each other. To gain on that team you must win against them. With Blackpool they are a team a few weeks ago who were 1 place above us and 2 points ahead. Now they are 6 places ahead of us and 7 points ahead. The last 4 games we have got 3 points. If we get 3 points from the next 4 games i doubt we will be staying up. Thus we must win and must win against the teams we are catching. A draw to teams like Blackpool suits them more then us. If we draw the last 7 games then think we will be down. I wasen't at the Blackpool game but was at the previous 3. I think we were lucky to come away from those games with 2 points due to being negative tactics wise. People have said the same for the Blackpool game. Charlton is such a massive game now that i can imagine if we play for a draw like the QPR and Derby games Wotte could get a bit of stick.

 

 

if we draw the next 7 games i reckon we would stay up as plymouth and forest are in real trouble

[LostBoys]

We should have beaten a very poor Blackpool side but we played very poorly in the first half soft penalty or not. Charlton is a must win now even thouigh some results went with us.

[krissyboy31]

For Blackpool this was a point gained because it kept the gap between them and us the same, whilst using up a game. If the positions were switched we would be happy to say 'point gained'. However as we are the team playing catchup, this is most definately 2 points dropped. Three 'must-win' games in a row and we've failed to win any of them.

[St Marco]

if we draw the next 7 games i reckon we would stay up as plymouth and forest are in real trouble

 

Didn't Plymouth beat Wolves away, Watford and drew with Reading recently? In their last game they lost to Burnley by a late goal. Burnley are the top in form team currently. I would trade for their fixtures for sure as they play Blackpool,Coventry,Doncaster,QPR,Barnsley and Birmingham. 4 of those teams are in the bottom 10. While i have no doubt Plymouth are **** all it takes is them to grind out 2 wins and we are needing 9 points to catch them. I would not be surprised to see them beat Blackpool,Doncaster and Coventry. Coventry and Doncaster have given up i think, Coventry have lost 4 of their last 5, the win being against Doncaster. And Doncaster have also won once in last 5 losing the other 4. Nothing left for those teams so can see them being beaten playing Plymouth at home.

Where as we have Charlton,Wolves,Watford,Palace,Weds,Burnley and Forest. Think we can forget the Wolves and Burnley game as those 2 teams are on fire and Burnley will push hard to catch Birmingham. Of the 5 left i think we need 3-4 wins. But even then 9 points might not be enough.

 

After the international break if i remember we play 4 times in 10 days. I think at that period we will know our fate. Win against Charlton, Lose to Wolves, win against Watford and Win against Palace will pull us out of it. But if we lose/draw to Charlton then we are in deep deep ****. Because on that weekend Forest play Barnsley, Plymouth play Blackpool, Doncaster play Watford and Norwich play Weds. So basically 6 teams directly above us are playing each other. Meaning someone will be gaining points. If we lose and Barnsley beat Forest and Plymouth beat Blackpool and Norwich beat Weds will see us 6 points adrift 7 if you include some of the GD. That means 3 of the 6 games remaining have to be won just to get back on level terms.

 

So Charlton is the must win game of all must win games because lose and that could knock us out if Plymouth and Norwich win.

[aintforever]

Blackpool were rubbish but probably should have won. Getting just 3 points from Derby, QPR and Blackpool has probably blown our chances of overtaking the teams above us.

[Thedelldays]

Didn't Plymouth beat Wolves away, Watford and drew with Reading recently? In their last game they lost to Burnley by a late goal. Burnley are the top in form team currently. I would trade for their fixtures for sure as they play Blackpool,Coventry,Doncaster,QPR,Barnsley and Birmingham. 4 of those teams are in the bottom 10. While i have no doubt Plymouth are **** all it takes is them to grind out 2 wins and we are needing 9 points to catch them. I would not be surprised to see them beat Blackpool,Doncaster and Coventry. Coventry and Doncaster have given up i think, Coventry have lost 4 of their last 5, the win being against Doncaster. And Doncaster have also won once in last 5 losing the other 4. Nothing left for those teams so can see them being beaten playing Plymouth at home.

Where as we have Charlton,Wolves,Watford,Palace,Weds,Burnley and Forest. Think we can forget the Wolves and Burnley game as those 2 teams are on fire and Burnley will push hard to catch Birmingham. Of the 5 left i think we need 3-4 wins. But even then 9 points might not be enough.

 

After the international break if i remember we play 4 times in 10 days. I think at that period we will know our fate. Win against Charlton, Lose to Wolves, win against Watford and Win against Palace will pull us out of it. But if we lose/draw to Charlton then we are in deep deep ****. Because on that weekend Forest play Barnsley, Plymouth play Blackpool, Doncaster play Watford and Norwich play Weds. So basically 6 teams directly above us are playing each other. Meaning someone will be gaining points. If we lose and Barnsley beat Forest and Plymouth beat Blackpool and Norwich beat Weds will see us 6 points adrift 7 if you include some of the GD. That means 3 of the 6 games remaining have to be won just to get back on level terms.

 

So Charlton is the must win game of all must win games because lose and that could knock us out if Plymouth and Norwich win.

 

 

i remember people saying "forget the reading away game" or more recently, forget the cardiff game

[Legod Third Coming]

if we draw the next 7 games i reckon we would stay up as plymouth and forest are in real trouble

 

And we're just in that 'pretend' trouble...

[Saint Benali]

I think your right Marco. If we fail to beat Charlton then one of the teams around us will be picking up points that weekend. I don't like the thought of having to go to Watford and Wolves without having the 3 points from Charlton in the bag. If we lose to them then we deserve to go down.

[alpine_saint]

I have heard quoted - even by the club's management - this total nonsense about 'this may be the point that makes the difference' as some form of justification for failing to despatch teams we really should be thumping.

 

And it is a nonsense.

 

If we stay up by one point, it is ludicrous to suggest it is the 'point gained at xx fc' which makes the difference. It's not.

 

What is a fact, is that every time we draw against a poor side like Blackpool we have dropped two points and every time we lose against them, three.

 

If we cannot get this mentality into our club we will be the perennial underdogs and underachievers so many seem hell bent on preserving.

 

We need to start adopting an approach that demands winning. Second place is just the first loser, tell the players.

 

If we stay up, by some minor miracle, whatever points we have garnered will be 30-40 less than any half-decent, motivated outfit, focusing on the basics of football could have achieved in this division of mediocrity punctuated by the occasional spell of entertainment.

 

No arguments from me there. Some of the most annoying posters on this site are the "we were bound to get relegated from the Premiership some time or another - who says we have a right to promotion", "it was a point gained" and "I am happy with the performance, even though we lost and are on the precipice facing the abyss" brigades. What a bunch of wishy-washy pooftahs.

 

Mentioning no names, of course........

[alpine_saint]

Thank God that we didn't have that attitude against Sheffield Utd last season...

 

hehehehehe

[OldNick]

Thank God that we didn't have that attitude against Sheffield Utd last season...

What would be more apt is that it is good we have not got your defeatist we are relegated already stuff. We lost to SU and the point would look bloody nice on our total at present.

As for harping back to last season , that was a REAL must win game and even if we did we were not guarenteed safety. This time last season your hero had just overseen a 5-0 drubbing away to Hull before a 0-0 draw at home to Coventry in a 'must win' game.

Fans have been saying they are must wins from about 16 games to go!

Yes we do have to win some games, but we have stopped losing and started to stop leaking goals.Where before we needed to score 3 to win we now need 1 or 2 much like the run in last year.

[solentstars]

No arguments from me there. Some of the most annoying posters on this site are the "we were bound to get relegated from the Premiership some time or another - who says we have a right to promotion", "it was a point gained" and "I am happy with the performance, even though we lost and are on the precipice facing the abyss" brigades. What a bunch of wishy-washy pooftahs.

 

Mentioning no names, of course........

good post this is just another negative thread with the usual suspects posting on it:D

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

What would be more apt is that it is good we have not got your defeatist we are relegated already stuff. We lost to SU and the point would look bloody nice on our total at present.

As for harping back to last season , that was a REAL must win game and even if we did we were not guarenteed safety. This time last season your hero had just overseen a 5-0 drubbing away to Hull before a 0-0 draw at home to Coventry in a 'must win' game.

Fans have been saying they are must wins from about 16 games to go!

Yes we do have to win some games, but we have stopped losing and started to stop leaking goals.Where before we needed to score 3 to win we now need 1 or 2 much like the run in last year.

 

Yeah but this isn't August or November , we're next to bottom of the table and we're running out of games - some sense of urgency would seem to be in order !

 

What would you do when we play Charlton at St Marys and it's 1-1 after 85 minutes ? - sitting back and settling for a point is a luxury we really can't afford anymore in our (perilous) situation . Wotte was right to gamble and throw everyone forward at Sheffield Utd looking for the win - it didn't work out on that occasion but he was still right to do it . God knows every visiting team that go behind at SMS try it against us and if memory serves more often than not they seem to get something .

 

It's surprising how many fans have never fully grasped the implications of the 3 points for a win system and the fundamental difference it has made to the game . History shows that too many drawn home games can/do relegate a team almost as certainly as losing every week - just like they did to us in 2005 .

 

If we are 1-1 against Charlton that just won't do as an acceptable result and I'd expect to see every Saints player in and around the opposition box for the last corner kick - and that includes Kelvin Davis .

[alpine_saint]

Yeah but this isn't August or November , we're next to bottom of the table and we're running out of games - some sense of urgency would seem to be in order !

 

What would you do when we play Charlton at St Marys and it's 1-1 after 85 minutes ? - sitting back and settling for a point is a luxury we really can't afford anymore in our (perilous) situation . Wotte was right to gamble and throw everyone forward at Sheffield Utd looking for the win - it didn't work out on that occasion but he was still right to do it . God knows every visiting team that go behind at SMS try it against us and if memory serves more often than not they seem to get something .

 

It's surprising how many fans have never fully grasped the implications of the 3 points for a win system and the fundamental difference it has made to the game . History shows that too many drawn home games can/do relegate a team almost as certainly as losing every week - just like they did to us in 2005 .

 

If we are 1-1 against Charlton that just won't do as an acceptable result and I'd expect to see every Saints player in and around the opposition box for the last corner kick - and that includes Kelvin Davis .

 

Wasnt that JP ?

 

Agree with the rest of your post though.

[Legod Third Coming]

Yeah but this isn't August or November , we're next to bottom of the table and we're running out of games - some sense of urgency would seem to be in order !

 

What would you do when we play Charlton at St Marys and it's 1-1 after 85 minutes ? - sitting back and settling for a point is a luxury we really can't afford anymore in our (perilous) situation . Wotte was right to gamble and throw everyone forward at Sheffield Utd looking for the win - it didn't work out on that occasion but he was still right to do it . God knows every visiting team that go behind at SMS try it against us and if memory serves more often than not they seem to get something .

 

It's surprising how many fans have never fully grasped the implications of the 3 points for a win system and the fundamental difference it has made to the game . History shows that too many drawn home games can/do relegate a team almost as certainly as losing every week - just like they did to us in 2005 .

 

If we are 1-1 against Charlton that just won't do as an acceptable result and I'd expect to see every Saints player in and around the opposition box for the last corner kick - and that includes Kelvin Davis .

 

Agreed. But I'd go further. I want this attitude every game. Go for the win. You betcha life that old Schuey didn't line up on the starting grid thinking about a top-ten finish...

 

Is it naive to go for the jugular every game? Surely not, since if you don't you end up in the must-win position anyway at some point.

 

Better to go into every game thinking and planning to win.

 

Every game is now crucial to us. But I believe that if we had started the season with this belief that every game was crucial, we wouldn't be where we are - we would be comfortably safe...