Guided Missile Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 In the rush to try to help the cause, there has been a groundswell from the diehard fans to dip into their recession ravaged wallets and send money to Southampton Leisure Holdings plc (Southampton Football Club Limited don't need our money, because that organisation is not in administration, apparently). Having a brutal experience of what the people connected with SLH may be going through, I can understand the reasons behind the cries for money, but I think it may be worth realising who will end up with the cash. Far from benefitting the company, any income is intended to benefit the creditors, but before they get their 50p (hopefully) in the pound, the employees of SLH will stand in front of the secured creditors, with the unsecured creditors glancing nervously over their shoulders at the pot. ALL of these unlucky people will be way behind the administrator, who will make sure that, before anyone gets a penny, his organisation will fill their boots, pockets and anything else they can stuff billable hours into. Before you send Mark Fry a penny, ask him how much his company expects to benefit from this sorry mess. I reckon that the charges will suprise many fans and will, IMHO, be in the hundreds of thousands. After he has had his fill, those idiot bankers at Barclays who gave us the rope to hang ourselves with, will be plucking the pound notes out of the collection buckets, to pay down the overdraft and if there are any "management" fees owing, take this for the champagne at their shareholders dinner. At the end of the day, we will be lucky to see any benefit to the CLUB, even if a million is raised and the only thing that may change is a lower price paid for the carcase by Barry Briefcase and his friends, who have zero idea of what exactly a good investment looks like. For that reason, Mr. Fry, I'm out..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 the only thing that may change is a lower price paid for the carcase by Barry Briefcase and his friends, I presuming that's just a bigger case than is normal briefcase;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 In the rush to try to help the cause, there has been a groundswell from the diehard fans to dip into their recession ravaged wallets and send money to Southampton Leisure Holdings plc (Southampton Football Club Limited don't need our money, because that organisation is not in administration, apparently). Having a brutal experience of what the people connected with SLH may be going through, I can understand the reasons behind the cries for money, but I think it may be worth realising who will end up with the cash. Far from benefitting the company, any income is intended to benefit the creditors, but before they get their 50p (hopefully) in the pound, the employees of SLH will stand in front of the secured creditors, with the unsecured creditors glancing nervously over their shoulders at the pot. ALL of these unlucky people will be way behind the administrator, who will make sure that, before anyone gets a penny, his organisation will fill their boots, pockets and anything else they can stuff billable hours into. Before you send Mark Fry a penny, ask him how much his company expects to benefit from this sorry mess. I reckon that the charges will suprise many fans and will, IMHO, be in the hundreds of thousands. After he has had his fill, those idiot bankers at Barclays who gave us the rope to hang ourselves with, will be plucking the pound notes out of the collection buckets, to pay down the overdraft and if there are any "management" fees owing, take this for the champagne at their shareholders dinner. At the end of the day, we will be lucky to see any benefit to the CLUB, even if a million is raised and the only thing that may change is a lower price paid for the carcase by Barry Briefcase and his friends, who have zero idea of what exactly a good investment looks like. For that reason, Mr. Fry, I'm out..... But on a serious note, I'm also sitting back as I want to understand just exactly what the situation is and what the due process is. I'm assuming by asking for all donations to go to SFC ltd they are attempting to establish a firewall as they are claiming that compnay is still trading OK. But can someone be clear about how this works, whether monies can or will be switched about, what this means in the next few weeks and then going forward etc etc etc??? I share some of your concerns, but I also understand the need to ensure the Club survives in some shape or form as I don't particularly think an AFC Southampton in the Jewson Wessex League is the best way forward. I also wonder whether the delaying of the points deduction decision and the sniffing aorund of the Leagues advisors are preventing some home truths from being spoken, as being honest I would have thought things would and should have been made quite a bit clearer by now (e.g. I had no idea where Crouch's we need £500,000 now came from and what it really means). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guided Missile Posted 9 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 April, 2009 I presuming that's just a bigger case than is normal briefcase;) You aren't very good at English, are you Steve? Your Easter homework is to learn the spelling and meaning of carcase and carcass. Just to help: Carcase the body of slaughtered animal after the removal of the offal.1] Carcass A term for a dead body, typically that of an animal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 In the rush to try to help the cause, there has been a groundswell from the diehard fans to dip into their recession ravaged wallets and send money to Southampton Leisure Holdings plc (Southampton Football Club Limited don't need our money, because that organisation is not in administration, apparently). Having a brutal experience of what the people connected with SLH may be going through, I can understand the reasons behind the cries for money, but I think it may be worth realising who will end up with the cash. Far from benefitting the company, any income is intended to benefit the creditors, but before they get their 50p (hopefully) in the pound, the employees of SLH will stand in front of the secured creditors, with the unsecured creditors glancing nervously over their shoulders at the pot. ALL of these unlucky people will be way behind the administrator, who will make sure that, before anyone gets a penny, his organisation will fill their boots, pockets and anything else they can stuff billable hours into. Before you send Mark Fry a penny, ask him how much his company expects to benefit from this sorry mess. I reckon that the charges will suprise many fans and will, IMHO, be in the hundreds of thousands. After he has had his fill, those idiot bankers at Barclays who gave us the rope to hang ourselves with, will be plucking the pound notes out of the collection buckets, to pay down the overdraft and if there are any "management" fees owing, take this for the champagne at their shareholders dinner. At the end of the day, we will be lucky to see any benefit to the CLUB, even if a million is raised and the only thing that may change is a lower price paid for the carcase by Barry Briefcase and his friends, who have zero idea of what exactly a good investment looks like. For that reason, Mr. Fry, I'm out..... The contributions are going to the football club not the plc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 did you see the old woman on sky sports news last night who had gone down to the ground and donated £500 on cash!!! crazy, just crazy, she looked about 80, and what is going to happen to that money? go towards Bradley Wright-Phillips $8k a week so he can go out on the ****? that goes for the majority of the squad. Just hope if the club is taken over that people like her and re-paid as a gesture by the new owners! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 You aren't very good at English, are you Steve? Your Easter homework is to learn the spelling and meaning of carcase and carcass. Just to help: Carcase the body of slaughtered animal after the removal of the offal.1] Carcass A term for a dead body, typically that of an animal. One can only presume you missed the joke and the reference to Barry's briefcase. I wasn't picking you up on your spelling dear chap, as you should know I really don't go in for spelling mistakes (viscous, vicious, visciousetc etc etc) because as someone else said on another thread being a pendant (sic) will come back and bite you on the ar5e on these message boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guided Missile Posted 9 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 April, 2009 The contributions are going to the football club not the plc. Remind me who controls the bank account of the football club, derry....it is the administrator, who is working on behalf of the creditors, not the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 The contributions are going to the football club not the plc. And what exactly does that mean? What limitations are there on transferring funds? What firewalls (if any) are in place? What is the end game? I'm not having a got you Derry, as you just seem to be in the firing line from us old whingers, but i just think these and other questions need to be answered by someone before money is blindly chucked around, and I wasn't convinced by Crouch's answers on the radio the other night. Believe you me, if someone comes out, explains the timeline and the strategy and how the Club would benefit from any of these schemes, then I would be up for helping out on any other them like a flash (I'd even do a sponsored spell if GM would sponsor me). But at the moment all I'm seeing is snippets of information and some mad running around. If anything, I actually think your idea of trying to establish an emergancy purchase fund if none of these other consortiums come through is the best thing I have heard in this area so far. Of course, it might be that the Administrator can't be saying much in case he reveals how insolvent the Football Club Ltd is, but I'm just not overly confident of people pouring money into a black hole for wat???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsash saint Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 After he has had his fill, those idiot bankers at Barclays who gave us the rope to hang ourselves with, will be plucking the pound notes out of the collection buckets, to pay down the overdraft and if there are any "management" fees owing, take this for the champagne at their shareholders dinner. So by your reckoning these 'idiots' should have just given us the money & not expected us to pay it back ? Barclays are not a charity & surely any 'idiot' can expect them to try to reclaim THEIR money should they see it disappearing down the plug hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 Remind me who controls the bank account of the football club, derry....it is the administrator, who is working on behalf of the creditors, not the company. It's the independent directors of the still solvent subsidiary company and the bank. ( K.Toynton & D.Jones) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 And what exactly does that mean? What limitations are there on transferring funds? What firewalls (if any) are in place? What is the end game? I'm not having a got you Derry, as you just seem to be in the firing line from us old whingers, but i just think these and other questions need to be answered by someone before money is blindly chucked around, and I wasn't convinced by Crouch's answers on the radio the other night. Believe you me, if someone comes out, explains the timeline and the strategy and how the Club would benefit from any of these schemes, then I would be up for helping out on any other them like a flash (I'd even do a sponsored spell if GM would sponsor me). But at the moment all I'm seeing is snippets of information and some mad running around. If anything, I actually think your idea of trying to establish an emergancy purchase fund if none of these other consortiums come through is the best thing I have heard in this area so far. Of course, it might be that the Administrator can't be saying much in case he reveals how insolvent the Football Club Ltd is, but I'm just not overly confident of people pouring money into a black hole for wat???? I think there is a contribution, a receipt, and the money goes into the FC's pot and accounts. No guarantees, firewalls just monetary gestures. I'm more in favour of a cure rather than a crutch. Not my cup of tea but I take my hat off to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 did you see the old woman on sky sports news last night who had gone down to the ground and donated £500 on cash!!! crazy, just crazy, she looked about 80, and what is going to happen to that money? go towards Bradley Wright-Phillips $8k a week so he can go out on the ****? that goes for the majority of the squad. Just hope if the club is taken over that people like her and re-paid as a gesture by the new owners! Good on her....But I suspect this was Rupert trying to give something back to the club...He didn't want to spoil his image...My understanding was that £490 of this was a contribution from 19, john and the terrible nicks...Rupert borrowed his tenner from Leon. The Lady is a real Saints fan.....Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 It's the independent directors of the still solvent subsidiary company and the bank. ( K.Toynton & D.Jones) Doesn't Toynton work for the administrators? Or at least out of the same building? How is he independent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 You would, usually, expect Norwich Union to have security over all the subsidiary companies so ultimately the footy club money is theirs should the security be enforced. You would also often find a cash-sweep mechanism in commercial loans to a group of companies. However, the recent noises coming out of the club/SLH do seem to suggest to me that the Loan Note is on some sort of limited recourse basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 Doesn't Toynton work for the administrators? Or at least out of the same building? How is he independent? As Fry said he is working closely with the independent directors. The real point is where do any short term contributions go, to the solvent football club to try and keep it from administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guided Missile Posted 9 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 April, 2009 So by your reckoning these 'idiots' should have just given us the money & not expected us to pay it back ? Barclays are not a charity & surely any 'idiot' can expect them to try to reclaim THEIR money should they see it disappearing down the plug hole.They shouldn't have loaned us money in the first place, but demanded that the new shareholders who were in control of the company put in more money, as we were loss making at the time. Failing that, they should have got PG's. I think the overdraft was at an idiotic level, as evidenced by the club's inability to repay. Banks don't lend "their" money, they mainly lend other people's money. Barclays tier 1 capital level at the moment probably means that for every £12 lent they have £1 of "their" money backing it up. I have no problem Barclays wanting the loan repaid by SLH. It's just that I don't see why the **** I should help repay it for them....I also don't see why I should also donate towards Begbie Traynor's income...my shares are already worthless. Beyond buying a pie and pint at the Stadium, that's as far as I will go.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guided Missile Posted 9 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 April, 2009 If anything, I actually think your idea of trying to establish an emergancy purchase fund if none of these other consortiums come through is the best thing I have heard in this area so far. Spot on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenwilkins Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 Surely it's in everyone's interest for the Administrator to come out and clearly state that public donations to assist the club will not be treated as assets of SLH? If he doesn't or won't or can't then there has to be some doubt why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestSaint Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 WH Ireland puffed up the share price of Begbies Traynor in their November newsletter quote 'Specialist insolvency practitioner Begbies Traynor is well placed to benefit from the current weakness in the economy and the shares offer a good hedge against further deterioration. Around 80% of revenues come from insolvency and corporate recovery, with the balance from tax consulting, corporate finance and other business. December’s trading statement revealed that revenues are significantly ahead of the previous year due to the strong trading of its core insolvency division. Management forecasts that results will meet expectations. We would expect this trend to continue and, following profit taking, the shares offer decent value. Buy at 140p. (John Goodall)' unquote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestSaint Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 Sorry that should have read their January 2009 newsletter!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestSaint Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 The Share price of B Traynor is currently 116p - not such a good call by Mr Goodall - A lot has happened in three months though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 [I have no problem Barclays wanting the loan repaid by SLH. It's just that I don't see why the **** I should help repay it for them....I also don't see why I should also donate towards Begbie Traynor's income...my shares are already worthless. Beyond buying a pie and pint at the Stadium, that's as far as I will go.... Thats exactly how I feel, I WAS a shareholder ...only a small one granted. I own 2 ST's, I also pay for my other child to attend on occasions. I regularly buy them kit, programmes, food, drink and at the weekend went into the shop and bought 2 more shirts. I do not want the club to go under but want to know where any money I further donate goes because if its going into the PLC, Administrator, PR guru or accountants fees then I am out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidthesquid Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 You aren't very good at English, are you Steve? Your Easter homework is to learn the spelling and meaning of carcase and carcass. Just to help: Carcase the body of slaughtered animal after the removal of the offal.1] Carcass A term for a dead body, typically that of an animal. That's the most interesting thing on here for weeks. I never realised their were two spellings & two definitions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guided Missile Posted 9 April, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 April, 2009 That's the most interesting thing on here for weeks. I never realised their were two spellings & two definitions It's the same thing with "there" and "their"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 WH Ireland puffed up the share price of Begbies Traynor in their November newsletter Interesting.....Almost worthy of a chin rubbing...."Hmmmmm...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 Originally Posted by derry The contributions are going to the football club not the plc. And what exactly does that mean? What limitations are there on transferring funds? What firewalls (if any) are in place? What is the end game? I'm not having a got you Derry, as you just seem to be in the firing line from us old whingers, but i just think these and other questions need to be answered by someone before money is blindly chucked around, and I wasn't convinced by Crouch's answers on the radio the other night. Believe you me, if someone comes out, explains the timeline and the strategy and how the Club would benefit from any of these schemes, then I would be up for helping out on any other them like a flash (I'd even do a sponsored spell if GM would sponsor me). But at the moment all I'm seeing is snippets of information and some mad running around. If anything, I actually think your idea of trying to establish an emergancy purchase fund if none of these other consortiums come through is the best thing I have heard in this area so far. Of course, it might be that the Administrator can't be saying much in case he reveals how insolvent the Football Club Ltd is, but I'm just not overly confident of people pouring money into a black hole for wat???? This is one of those rare times where I am in complete agreement with you and I feel we have been let down by Richards and Crouch regarding these impassioned pleas that bypass the head. What would be the sensible action is to donate these monies to an independent body that can decide what good can actually be done with these donations. Monies can be paid directly to areas that are vital for the football club to survive, without having to go through the administrators. Because of the timing and organisation required to do this, there appears only one solution, The Saints Trust. The remit of any such committee has to be carefully worded as the administrator could fully expect certain of these funds to substitute what comes from the gate receipts. I would even go to the extent of them soliciting advice from Lowe regarding the exact mechanism, of all those out there could give the best advice in the shortest time. I can see you are convulsing on the floor now, so will go no further along that road. The other point the Trust should address is Southampton City Council in whatever way possible. The obvious would be over the purchase of the stadium but realistically this may have a very limited return. The one area where the council can really help without costing the ratepayers a penny is regarding planning permission. If the stadium and training ground cannot be given planning permission other than for the purpose of football, this will deter developers trying to acquire the assets and give leverage over Aviva and Barclays for agreement in the future. We actually have issues now where we desperately need a body such as the trust, I just hope they take up the cudgel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plumstead_Saint Posted 9 April, 2009 Share Posted 9 April, 2009 That's the most interesting thing on here for weeks. I never realised their were two spellings & two definitions Actually, the definition is the same regardless of spelling. "Carcase" is regarded as a British spelling variant of "carcass", according to both the Cambridge Dictionary, and the Oxford English Dictionary. Both are usually defined as "the body of a dead animal, especially a large one soon to be cut up as meat or eaten by animals". Yours faithfully, Pedants Corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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