david in sweden Posted 20 May, 2009 Share Posted 20 May, 2009 (edited) ....apparantly - it's EXPERIENCE. A survey carried out by the League Managers Association shows that the key factor to being a successful manager (which presumably means they don't get sacked so often) is...... Experience. The win % of 4 managerial groups appears like this; former internationals 35.2% former Prem. players 34.5% ex F. League players 34.7% not played professionally 34.1% ( the variation is almost NOTHING) . but the difference is that many of the "survivors" have; - played the game at some level, not necessarily at the top. - They have served as assistant manager to someone else. - They started off in the lower leagues. Looking at this in practice we see; Ferguson played in Scots.(Prem) over a longer period no real international exp. Allardyce - long time defender with ..Bolton ? no int.exp. Moyes - Played in Scotland - internationals ? ..not that I know of. H.R. club player with West ham, no internationals - but has saved Spuds. Three managed to save their clubs from certain relegation -at least for now. Roy Hodgson - no star in england but managed 16 clubs in 7 diff.countries. Tony Pulis - former lower league player. Has good team at Stoke now. Paul Hart - (ex Leeds def.) did a better job that T.A. at Pompey. there are many more examples but famous internationals with good careers fall by the wayside like weeds; Southgate, Brian Robson, Paul Ince, Tony Adams..and Alan Shearer (may at least keep his job another year.) Roy Keane's spell at Sunderland was limited and Mark Hughes is on thin ice at Man. City. The average " sacking time " for the not-so-successful is.. 1½ years, while impatient Premiership teams give 'em the boot after 6 months. 49% of " first-time managers " who fail never get a second chance! It's tough life...even for a well-paid manager. Edited 20 May, 2009 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 20 May, 2009 Share Posted 20 May, 2009 No **** Sherlock. But undeniable - I guess you're bored right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 20 May, 2009 Share Posted 20 May, 2009 No **** Sherlock. But undeniable - I guess you're bored right? +1 bored to tears just want to start talking about players and games etc, completely fed up with this phoney war period we are in now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 20 May, 2009 Share Posted 20 May, 2009 "Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment" - Jim Horning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southamptonfclegend Posted 20 May, 2009 Share Posted 20 May, 2009 Yet you say about famous international players not doing very well granted some don't yet... Josep Guordiola very good player played for spain doing well at Barca and Zola great player doing well for West Ham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 23 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 23 May, 2009 Yet you say about famous international players not doing very well granted some don't yet... Josep Guordiola very good player played for spain doing well at Barca and Zola great player doing well for West Ham I was actually quoting an overview of the report to the League Managers Association - It isn't rocket science but I'm surprised that it didn't come up with something we DIDN'T know! Of course experience counts, but looking at the English game ..the number of managers who seem to come direct from player to manager and succeed are definitely in the minority. I sure Guordiola is doing OK but look at the team he's got...the survey however, was highlighting English Clubs/managers. Now all we have to do is wait for the " new owners" to chooses their manager (sorry MW ) back to the Academy 4U (if you're lucky). WHO will " they " choose......an inexperienced Former Prem/ International player or a hard slogger from the lower divisions .....with a bit of form. Either way the fans will have their own opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFC Forever Posted 23 May, 2009 Share Posted 23 May, 2009 Thats what fans do. Praise the man when we win and slag him of when we don't. More so if we know we could and should have done a lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 24 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 24 May, 2009 Thats what fans do. Praise the man when we win and slag him of when we don't. More so if we know we could and should have done a lot better. Nice phrasing, SFC Forever! your comment reminded me of the famous Lawrie Mc Menemy quote; (at a time when we had our great period in early 1980's) "..... as a manager you can never win. If we win, everyone says... the team played well, If we lose... it's my fault 'cos I picked them ! " ..........Never a truer word LM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 24 May, 2009 Share Posted 24 May, 2009 Experience, Knowledge, credibility and consistency. That is the secret. I guess credibility comes from experience, knowledge and consistency, but essentially that is the key. Wotte has none of the above. Someone like Ince a little more of the above (plus hunger, and is thus a more realistic target for a League 1 club) and someone like Allardyce and Roy Hodgson all of the above, making them Premiership quality. We must get the best, most experienced and knowledgeable, manager we can as a League 1 team in the next month or so. We must put him on a long term contract and support him for 6 years. To be honest - we have learnt every lesson through Lowe on how not to do it. We must insist on a credible EXPERIENCED manager from our new owners asp.... Managerial appointments are statements of intent by owners and the boardroom. Watch their appointment - if they get it wrong I sense a very short honeymoon period for our new owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 24 May, 2009 Share Posted 24 May, 2009 I wonder if Jimmy Calderwood, of Aberdeen who finished 4th in the league and qualified for europe,has got planned after leaving them today stating his reason "looking for a fresh challenge". Good chum with Souness i believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 24 May, 2009 Share Posted 24 May, 2009 49% of " first-time managers " who fail never get a second chance! Who? Remember every manager has to start somewhere to gain experience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 24 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 24 May, 2009 Who? Remember every manager has to start somewhere to gain experience... It's just stats.in the report. I think it's incredible that so many don't succeed, but it's obviously tough - even starting at the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 24 May, 2009 Share Posted 24 May, 2009 there are many more examples but famous internationals with good careers fall by the wayside like weeds; Southgate, Brian Robson, Paul Ince, Tony Adams..and Alan Shearer (may at least keep his job another year.) Roy Keane's spell at Sunderland was limited and Mark Hughes is on thin ice at Man. City. So you are completely disregarding his excellent record with the Welsh National Team and his even better record with Blackburn over several seasons, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsaint Posted 24 May, 2009 Share Posted 24 May, 2009 The league managers association. Brings a whole new dimension to the concept of "pointlessness". In fact we could probably use one of their members, as "pointless" is a state we are liable to be in for some time yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 24 May, 2009 Share Posted 24 May, 2009 I think, 'not a complete fruitcake from the Dutch equivalent of Bognor Regis FC,' would be on my list of managerial criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianthesaint Posted 24 May, 2009 Share Posted 24 May, 2009 Lads i aint got a full account but has anyone got any news at all? Starting to ****ing worry big time no season ticket news no pre season friendlies this is ****ing worry when are we leaving admin anyone know the answers to this great football club :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 25 May, 2009 Share Posted 25 May, 2009 The next manager must attract "Good Luck", better to be lucky than experienced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint 76er Posted 25 May, 2009 Share Posted 25 May, 2009 The next manager must attract "Good Luck", better to be lucky than experienced Perhaps we need a Feng Shui expert as our next manager then. Not a bad call really, although we might need some running water at one end of the ground and green plants in the opposite corner.. oh, and maybe a lucky Buddha strategically placed behind each goal. Well, desperate times call for desperate measures you know..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 25 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 25 May, 2009 So you are completely disregarding his excellent record with the Welsh National Team and his even better record with Blackburn over several seasons, then? I didn't say Mark Hughes was no good, but when you're at the top end of the Premiership the demands are even higher. Liverpool have sacked managers who only finished 4th in the Prem. Chelsea's owner sacked a manager who couldn't keep his team on top and it can't be easy owning " the other club" in Manchester. The Arab gentleman who took over MC wants quick results and has the money to get them. I'm sure he' ll be looking for an Italian alternative in the summer. I like Hughes, yes he has done well with Wales but he's the Man.City manager first ..so I stand by me comment - he's on this ice, with not even a Euro place to contest next season, whilst United will be Champions League contenders again regardless of Wednesdays result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 25 May, 2009 Author Share Posted 25 May, 2009 So you are completely disregarding his excellent record with the Welsh National Team and his even better record with Blackburn over several seasons, then? I didn't say Mark Hughes was no good, but when you're at the top end of the Premiership the demands are even higher. Liverpool have sacked managers who only finished 4th in the Prem. Chelsea's owner sacked a manager who couldn't keep his team on top and it can't be easy owning " the other club" in Manchester. The Arab gentleman who took over MC wants quick results and has the money to get them. I'm sure he' ll be looking for an Italian alternative in the summer. I like Hughes, yes he has done well with Wales but he's the Man.City manager first ..so I stand by me comment - he's on thin ice, with not even a Euro place to contest next season, whilst United will be Champions League contenders again regardless of Wednesdays result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyes k8 Posted 25 May, 2009 Share Posted 25 May, 2009 Your first requirement in a manager should be someone that's better than Tony Adams. True it's not much of a filter and may indeed just eliminate one person-but that person is Tony Adams. If ever you think of him-just don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 25 May, 2009 Share Posted 25 May, 2009 Your first requirement in a manager should be someone that's better than Tony Adams. True it's not much of a filter and may indeed just eliminate one person-but that person is Tony Adams. If ever you think of him-just don't. So would Steve Wigley be rated above or below Adams? just so we get our own sliding scale nailed down, surely Adams cannot be worse than Wigley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 25 May, 2009 Share Posted 25 May, 2009 I think Shearer may fail as Newcastle manager if he stays - I think the Toon will not promote next season due to his lack of experience. So actually I suppose experience is the key as Shearer certainly has credibility. Mind you, having Ian Dowie nearby will help him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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