aintforever

After getting so much money this summer it is easy to forget that Lovren is Liverpool's 4th most expensive signing ever. He cost the same as Torres and only a couple of mill less than Saurez. No wonder the scousers are p!ssed off.

Probably put pressure on our politicians to try and tackle the problem instead of take the easy, short-term option and just ignore it.

The problem is all the people we have elected seem to just ignore the blindingly obvious, or choose to do nothing about it. As for being an MP, Brand will probably have more effect doing what he is at the moment, using his fame and wit, than being a lone voice in Parliament. It is said that the pen is mightier than the sword, maybe in today's world the media is mightier than the ballot box? It is obvious the current system is f*cked up and unsustainable when a banker can earn in one day what a nurse earns in a year just because he knows how to play the system. We can either do f*ck all and say "that's just how it is" and sleepwalk into the next crash or we can TRY and do something about it. Maybe by doing what he is, Brand is making our politicians wonder why some hairy former crack-head is more popular than they are. Every time he embarrasses one of them on question time he is getting his point across.

Agree with the above, interesting insight Verbal.

Are Cork, Morgan and Wanyama all definitely out?

I agree 100% about extremism being driven UK and US foreign policy but there was never enough evidence of WMDs to warrant going to war over wether it was obtained by torture or not. Iraq barely had a working tank use to the years of sanctions let alone a WMD capability. It was always about oil and regime change. Disagree about the slippery slope thing, the CIA have not stepped over the edge they have slightly put their toes over the edge and already been held to account for it. The idea that in today's world it will lead to western countries dragging people off the street and torturing them is just nonsense.

Normal service resumed, back to being sh!t. Our squad is so lacking strength in depth, at least we should have enough points on the board to stay up.

I meant irrelevant in the context of the performance and methods of the US security services, Guantanamo etc. Fact is the US hasn't suffered another 9/11 so as much as torture etc is morally wrong their methods have been successful - that is all the US public will give a sh!te about. As for their methods creating more extremists - the UK doesn't use torture (as far as we know) yet more of our people are going over to fight for ISIS than Americans.

Oh not your f*cking fairy tales again, I would have thought you would have knocked those on head after the Lee Rigby episode. Anyway, wether Bin Laden was killed by the Yanks or not is irrelevant, the US has avoided another 9/11 type attack in the years since the original despite becoming even more hated throughout the Middle East so it is hard to criticise it's security services.

I think evidence from Guantanamo helped catch Bin Laden, and the US hasn't had another 9/11. How is that not successful from a US person's point of view?

Probably increased the chances. But fact is they have been pretty successful at stopping another 9/11 happening.

Probably because, whilst torture is morally wrong, the Yanks don't fancy another 9/11.

Same us us, top 6 maybe, top 4 no chance. 7th or 8th probably.

Is it worth a watch? I like them both. Brand doesn't come up with any solutions but I like him because he communicates well what most people are thinking. Farage, whilst having some dodgy policies, is on the money when it comes to immigration. Rather watch both of them than 99% of today's politicians.

So Lallana still rarely manages to complete 90mins. Lovren is just sh!te and Lambert is basically an aged fat mascot. £50mill - f*ck me, even for Liverpool that is a horrific waste of cash.

Just our lack of strength in depth being exposed again. Can't deal with too many injuries, rest key players or freshen things up like the big boys can.

As it's 6,000 pages long no I haven't read it. I've read the key findings and the only thing I'm surpassed about is the fact that some people are surprised. What did you think went on at Guantanamo?

I'm more than happy to let my security services use their judgement. At the end of the day the people at the sharp end are best equipped to make the decision. Face it, no one on here has a clue what goes on.

I've read a bit about the SOE and I'm pretty sure the Germans used torture to gain information. I'm sure I remember reading on more than one occasion that if an agent or part of the resistance got caught it was usually just a matter of time before information was given up because of torture. people can only hold out so long.

Certainly not Guantanamo Bay, 9/11 happened before that remember. I would say the Israel/Palestine conflict is probably the main reason for the anti US/Western attitude.

They do what they do because of their extreme religious beliefs, not sure they seek any other vindication.

From what I have read from accounts of military people who have actually been tortured it does work. It may not be a very efficient way of getting information but you still get more information that if they say nothing.

Where do you get this information? The CIA said it has saved lives.

I'm not sure where this proof has come from but I expect if it didn't work they wouldn't do it. I would prefer to leave it up to the experts that do-gooders who are scared of hurting a fly. From what I have read (military non-fiction) it is not easy to withstand torture, pretty much everyone talks eventually - that's why the SAS specifically train for such circumstances.

Not nice but probably necessary in certain cases IMO.