sandwichsaint

Agree about Prem 2. Looks increasingly like it will happen; if Saints can get themselves stabilised/sorted very quickly there is no reason why they couldn't be invited in, if presumably it's going to be done by invitation. If for any reason we ever fall below that cut-off line we would be condemned to a life as a permanent Millwall or Gillingham.

Not really interested TBH; good luck to anyone who started it, I'd look out for their results and prob buy a shirt too, but I wouldn't make a 300 mile round trip to watch a non-league side. I've got my exit strategy nicey covered; the mighty Dover have just achieved their second back-to-back promotion in front of average home crowds of well over a 1,000 in the Ryman South and are back in the Conference South. Decent ground, good crowds, brilliant manager (Hesentaler, HCDAJFU), some funding; I expect them to go well next year and either gain or come very near to another promotion. All hypothetical of course, all indications are that Saints will be taken over this week and in a perverse sort of way I'm quite looking forward to L1; even considering my first-ever ST if the new owners come up with the right package of rescue/manager/pricing!

+1 Wotte was is and always will be complete and utter garbage; the events of the last 24 hours just compound the sheer ineptitude of the 'performances' which he over-saw against Charlton, Wolves, and Sheff Weds. If (the magic word) we had taken 3/4/5/6 points from those fixtures then we would now be halfway safe from starting next season on -10. Can't believe anyone on here thinks HCDAJFU next season .... Clean sweep on the playing side from top to bottom; new manager / new coaches / pick which players he wants to keep and then add his own. LOL that SFC would be 'too big' for Tisdale!

Southampton will be relegated from the Championship after being docked 10 points by the Football League. The penalty comes after the club's parent company went into administration at the start of April. Southampton are currently four points off safety with two games to go and, even if they beat the drop, they will be deducted 10 points. If they do not avoid finishing in the bottom three then the points penalty will take effect next season. The south coast outfit had hoped to avoid the punishment as they argued that their parent company Southampton Leisure Holdings plc had gone into administration. But a League investigation by "independent forensic accountants" found that the club and the holding company were "inextricably linked as one economic entity" and applied their mandatory penalty. The League also found that: "The holding company has no income of its own; all revenue and expenditure is derived from the operation of Southampton Football Club and the associated stadium company "The holding company is solvent in its own right. It only becomes insolvent when account is taken of the position of Southampton football club and the other group companies." The statement added that there was no alternative other than to invoke the 10-point penalty. It was also revealed that the company commissioned to look into the matter reported that co-operation with them was withdrawn towards the end of their enquiries. Southampton are the fifth Football League team to be deducted points this season - Darlington entered administration, while Luton, Bournemouth and Rotherham were all penalised for coming out of administration without a Company Voluntary Agreement in place, as per the League's insolvency guidelines. From BBC Football; seems Lowe's little ruse was easily seen through , SLH and SFC 'inextricably linked', whoever thought otherwise? Surely Barclay's should have pulled the plug before the deadline? They could presumably have re-called their OD 'on demand' at any time; why wait till we're in minus points territory?

Down with a whimper, we're going down with a whimper, down with a whimper. We're goin' down with a whimper ........ ssssshhhhhhhhhh! This should have been sung (quietly) at the Charlton and Sheff Weds games. I hope people are going to give the players some grief on Saturday; it's six days on I'm still not over the pitiful surrender I saw at Hillsborough last week. Fecking players Fecking manager Fecking Burley Fecking Lowe Feck everybody! Another relegation struggle next season as well then .....

Personally I never want to hear from, see, or read anything about RL/MW ever again! I have not followed or read any of RL's media debriefings; I didn't believe in him when he was here and I'm certainly not now going to throw good time after bad times trolling him around the media .... if we haven't heard anything from RL that is A GOOD THING and long may it continue. In the interests of fairness/balance I'm not overly convinced that LC is the answer either. My abiding wish is that we are taken over by someone I've never heard of, who appoints a competent team of people I've never heard of, and that they then rinse the place clean from top to bottom and make a complete fresh start on and off the pitch.

Other results aren't going our way!!! Since beating Ipswich we have won just one game in the last 9, and have failed to record a win in any of the following 'winnable' 6 games: we couldn't beat Derby, QPR or Charlton (FFS!) at home, and we failed to win at Blackpool, Watford, or Wednesday. For how long do you rely on 'other teams' results? We have won 4 home games all season! That's relegation form in anybody's book. As for Wotte not deserving vilification? He trains the team, he picks the team, he selects the tactics; his results and the performances of 'his' team speak for themselves. He hasn't got the first clue about our club, this League or English football. Diamond formation with these players, in this league? LMFAO! If we had a chairman I would have expected him to have been out the door at 10.00 this morning following the debacle of Saturday. It really doesn't matter who picks the team and runs the bench for these last 2 games; nobody could do worse than Wotte did on Saturday.

Can we knock one thing straight on the head here, and I've seen it loads of places on here in the last 24 hours, 'Sheff Weds weren't even any good'. Ridiculous comment and one of the reasons we lose so many games! The same comment made over and over again, I can only assume by people that don't watch (m)any games, or only 'watch' Saints when they do go to a game? Get real people! The League table doesn't lie! SW are comfortably mid-table after a difficult season last year and a wobbly first half of this season. They have an excellent manager who they have stuck by for a couple of seasons, and a very workable mix of 'journeymen', young pro's, and the odd foreign import. They play a no-nonesense, high-tempo 'British' game and are quite good at it, relying heavily on fitness/work rate/physical strength and pace (if you still don't get it, that's not Saints I'm talking about there). When they have that platform they then play their 'football' and their attacks have pace and precision. They have a decent spine of a solid GK, 2 decent CBs, and hard-tackling midfielders. Yesterday 24k fans turned out for a meaningless end-of-season match and supported their team for 90 minutes and were rewarded with the most one-sided 2-0 win they will ever see. We are 3 or 4 years away even from this scenario and will have to go down, and hopefully up again, to even get to that level. In the meantime we need a buyer, funds, and fans, before we even consider finding our own next manager/saviour. Time for some to get real; we are cr8p as cr8p can be. We fielded six players yesterday with Prem experience, Weds had 3 or 4. 'These players should be higher in the League ...', which players? Which league? Yesterday we/they made not-very-good-Sheffield-Wednesday look like fecking Brazil, just like two weeks ago when we made Charlton look like Chelsea. Why didn't we win yesterday? How long have you got? Losing mentality from top to bottom; team doesn't 'expect' to win games, we are effectively 'beaten before we've started'. Players are mentally drained; from losing, from 'politics', from worrying about their jobs/futures. Players' fitness levels are apalling, frankly unbelievable in this day and age. Surman,Skacel,Wotton,McG all blowing out their ar5es after 15 minutes. Warm-up and prep is school-boy standard (if that's not insulting to school boys' and their coaches). No progression, no intensity, no team-building routines. It's cursory, superficial, unproffessional. I was astonished by what I saw at Wolves pre-match, and yesterday's was equally poor. Tactics and team selection are poor and inflexible. The narrow diamond has been shi7 for weeks but we don't change it. Mrs Sandwich came to her first game of the season on Sat and she picked it up in the first five minutes, we are playing with a lack of natural width and any shape for the centre players to pass to, consequently we continually give the ball away (or hoof it straight and long which amounts to the same thing really). Manager/coaches don't react to the game situation. Saints have an extremely limited Plan A and no Plan B. Too many players have given up, they can get a new club next season, we can't! We concede goals for fun, two howlers yesterday, and without Perry they might easily have had five. We play very negatively, constantly passing square and backwards. No pace, creativity, or one-on-one ability means we create very few chances in open play (we should be playing Llallana in the hole, yesterday that would have drawn their clumping CBs fd away from the top of their D, rather than kicking it onto their heads for 90 minutes). We are poor at converting the chances we do get (no natural goal scorer if Saga doesn't score). Set pieces/corners are shocking. That's some of the reasons we didn't win yesterday.... and unless we make some real changes we will carry on reading 'Millwall weren't even that good...' type comments, all the way into Division 4. I visited the Stadium of Light on Saturday morning (after cycling the C-2-C route from Whitehaven to Sunderland on Wed-Fri last week) and was very moved by the 'fans' statue if any of you have seen it. Words which resonated for me in our current plight: 'All generations come together at the Stadium of Light. A love of "The Lads" has bonded together supporters for more than 125 years and will for many more years in the future. At Sunderland it is this statue to the fans that has pride of place. Supporters who have passed away have their support carried on by today's fans, just as the supporters of today will have their support continued through families and friends. We share this vision and bond as one because Sunderland AFC is For Us All' Maybe something for our 'players' to reflect on even though it's probably too late now, and for us as fans to hope we will one day rise again.

TBF, if some people on here thought 'he was rubbish and not good enough for us' he is some pretty illustrious company. Not good enough for Saints: Prutton Kevin Davies Delap Oakley Higinbotham Telfer Dean Richards Jermaine Wright Brett Ormerod Blackstock Fuller (!) Not sure if that lot would have served up the complete debacle I witnessed yesterday and be on a one-way ticket to Div 3?

Just when you thought you had seen everything, Wotte a shocker! KD 4, HIS KICKING IS COMPLETELY SHOT!!! LJ 5, TAKE A BOW SON SIZE 3, HOWLER FOR THE FIRST GOAL PERRY 5, TWO GOAL-SAVING INTERCEPTIONS IN THE FIRST-HALF RUDI 2, GAVE UP WEEKS AGO WOTTON 5, SHI7E BUT AT LEAST HE TRIES LLALANA 2, SHOULD BE SUEING SFC FOR LOSS OF HIS CAREER DMG 4, DECENT FIRST HALF, WENT MISSING 2ND HALF SURMAN 2, INVISIBLE MAN FIRST HALF, QUITE GOOD (AGAIN) AT LB BWP 4.5, LOOKED INTERESTED BUT FECKALL SERVICE JE 2, I'M A FAN BUT HE HAD ONE TODAY SAGA 4, SHOULD HAVE COME ON AT HT SMITH '0' NIL POINTS, UNMITIGATED SHY7E (someone come back and defend his 'performance' today?) MORGAN 0. WHAT WAS THE POINT? DID HE TOUCH THE BALL! Absolute gash from first minute to last.... I'm embarressed and hurting tonight.... is anybody on here defending Wotte after that!?

Plannning to go. Anbody know if you can pay on the gate? Thnx.

That'll be Charlton all over again then? Have we ever kept a clean sheet with Wotton at holding mid? What's not to get that the 'diamond' doesn't work with these players? Lallana will be shy7e in a free role on the RM and will leave LJ horribly exposed. Palace will score 2, Saints will score something between 0 and 3!

''The scandinavian Pine trees of Netley Victoria Park'' ... takes me back to my yoof, jumpers-for-goalposts, three-and-in; who will we be today? Channon? Stokes? Osgood? David Peach if we had a penalty. Kids with heroes, running free on a bed of pine needles, thanks for brightening up the end of a long day!

McClaggon (sp?) was excellent away at Norwich, then got injured. Smith was shi7 in that game too, tho only for 45 minutes that time.

Can't add much more; schit selection, schit preperation, schit tactics. When we had 10-12 games left nobody would have had this game down for any points but failing to beat Charlton made this game massive and we threw it away inside the first 5 minutes. Unbelievable! Hard to give anybody a mark above a 2, all eleven players AND THE MANAGER are culpable for being 3 down in 20 minutes, ****-poor preparation at team and individual level. Who played 'well' after that is irrevelent, tho in fact nobody played very well and there is no MOM award available for this game. Davis 5, leaking goals and his distribution looks nervy James 5, defended manfully but didn't get fd to any great effect Perry/Size 4/4, must command the box better, particularly at set pieces Skacel 3, rubbish LB, move him to LM for last 4 games Smith 2, total shy7e, how he has stayed on the pitch for 180 minutes this week is beyond me Wotton 5, actually one of his better games! (completed 20% of his passes rather than the usual 10%) Morgan 2, joke selection in the context of the game, predictably he had nil impact Surman 4, no impact in midfield, did a passable impression of a LB in the second half DMG 5, didn’t do a lot right or a lot wrong, not sure why he was taken off? Saga 2, huffed and puffed but nil impact BWP 6, looked some sort of a threat and created two scoring chances for himself Euell 2, should have started but little impact when he did come on Lallana (6), not on long but had several good touches, needs to start last 4 games Wotte 0/10 .... go now, you are an embarrassment to the club. Last four games it’s shi7 or bust (or possibly both); my team to win three of the last four, .......................... KD ........................ JAMES ................ CP..........JPS ............SURMAN BWP .....EUELL .............DMG.........SKACEL ...................LALLANA................................ .......................SAGA.................................. For me we have to win 3 of the last 4, WOTTON must go, we can neither attack nor defend with him sitting in ‘holding’ midfield. Play a proper 4-4-2 with BWP and SKACEL to give the width. Don’t let SMITH within a mile of the first team. Withdraw SURMAN from midfield to full back (a la the end of last season). Restore LALLANA in his best position. Thoroughly depressing day today, Wolverhampton is a total dump, ‘away fans’ effectively barred from all town centre pubs, officious stewards and a police presence like a G20 protest (18 plod lined up across the outside of the away section turnstiles, ‘welcome to Molineux lads’). Fair play to their fans, they were rocking both ends of the stadium whereas ours, much like the team never really turned up.

Wotte a shambles, I thought the forum match was at the end of the season? Looking at that clueless, unorganised and downright unfit shower we were served up yesterday it looked like half our team were paying £100 to 'live the dream'. Honestly if they had put out TSF's A or B teams for the second half would anybody have noticed the difference? Wotte did they do for the last two weeks at training? It certainly wasn't fitness work, nor was it corners (beyond shocking) or set pieces (they were more threatening to the pigeons than the oppo goalkeeper). A real kick in the teeth for all those that made the effort to turn out, and for those that didn't (?), you've got to wonder if they deserve a club at all? I changed my weekend around and went the extra mile (in fact 300 miles) to be there, you have to be seriously worried if we can't sell out a game of that significance at £15/£5 ticket? To the game: Saints just didn't turn up, whether that was the 'events'. the break, the big crowd, the weather, or general 'resignation' we'll never know but when we needed our biggest performance we got nothing. Comedy goal down in the first five minutes, rescued by an excellent equaliser from DMG. Surely if we could hold out till halftime (I'll repeat that 'if we could hold out till halftime', that's against the bottom team in the league, at home, in front of 27,500 passionate fans playing for our survival in this league and as a footbal club with 124 years of proud history). Concede a ridiculous penalty, which KD saves with one of his more straightfd saves this season, and get to half time at 1-1. Perhaps Wotte's noticed that Jake Thomson isn't a RB? or that Lallana is having a complete mare, or that their LB is shi7 but we are not playing with any width down the right? Or that our route one hoof ball is creating next to nothing? Or that Rudi has already started his summer holidays (he should have gone the whole hog and bought a deck chair out second half). Wotte chooses to ignore the charms of BWP (at least he has pace) and Morgan (he must watch and weep how he can't get into a side containing JT, AL and Ryan Smith FFS!) and soldiers on with PLAN A! (where have we heard that before? and where has it got us??) with predictable consequences, Saints huff and puff, Charlton play intelligently on the break and give Saints a finishing lesson with two excellent goals. It's then all too little too late as Wotte makes subs and changes it around. We actually get up a decent head of steam in the last 15 minutes (why not the first 15 minutes?) and score a great BWP goal to reduce the deficit. Fans now screaming for a point (!) in a game that in the context of the league table should have been a gimme. Wasn't to be, the fans gave the players a decent (and undeserved) cheer off and no booing at all, tho there probably should have been. Davis 8; did what he's done all season JT 2; not his fault, not a right back and I quite rate him as a Div 1 R Midfielder which is what he will be next season Size 5; nerves (?) or just a bad day at the office? Perry 6; did his best but the whole of the back had a shocker Skacel 3; got forward once or twice in the first half but you would expect a lot more Lallana 1; absolute gash, last season he looked the real deal at West Brom and again at home against Sheff Utd. He has had his career blighted and potentially ruined by the events of the last 12 months, he needs to get out now and start again if he can. Wotton 4; would struggle in the league below DMG 7; he's grown on me (I'll go to the doctor first thing Monday) since Wotte came in. Works hard, excellent asset defensively in open play and at set pieces, and he scored a classic 'midfielder's goal' yesterday. He could do well in Lge 1. Surman 4; couple of strong runs in the first half, took two heavy challenges and I assume he was taken off at 1-3 to rest him for Watford. Still a big player for us. Euell 6; wholehearted and led from the front but nothing really came off for him today. Strong second half but very little evidence of a partnership with Saga and didn't ever look like scoring. Saga 4; nil service and a couple of decent snap shots but you would expect more from a current international wouldn't you? Subs. BWP 7, looked lively and interested and got a well-deserved and very good goal, should start RW on Tuesday. Smith 2, held his wide position well, then continually stopped the ball when we needed momentum. Poor delivery, poor player Liptak, thrown up front but predictably nill impact. Wotte 2; got it all wrong today, started with a decent side on paper (bar right back) but failed to react to the game in front of him till it was far to late. Rowing with the oppo's technical area shows 'passion' but he needs to commit that to the players. Charlton: came with no pressure and made the most of it. Keeper played well, the 2 brick CH's gave little away, they put their foot in when they had to and played football when they could (the Chinese number 5 was one of the best players I've seen this season), they took their chances well. On this evidence they are much better equipped for Lge 1 than we will be! Onwards to Watford and Wolves, we will need to improve 100% to get anything out of those games. After yesterday, I wouldn't bet on it.

inCiderDealing with Rosie

We'll walk the feeder leagues....

Very provocative Ponty but I'll take you up on that. I love the club, I love everything about the club, and it's been a big part of my life for 40+ years. Putting all that to one side I really don't think I could find the stomach for a phoenix 'New Saints' that included anything to do with RL. It's not the answer you want to hear but if you think it's been grim the last 5 years, wait for another 5 years of NuLowe... unless he has the backers that he has so conspicuously failed to produce so far Idon't think he'd last 6 months. Hopefully that's all hypothetical and it won't come to it but I for one wouldn't lose too much sleep if the choice was between the noSaints and the RL-Saints.

Surely too obvious.... If there was any chance of this we would have taken it 12 months ago? 'Dear Aviva, can we just play our last 3 games before we give the keys back?'; that's not going to happen, surely we would be trading fraudulently knowing that 6 weeks down the line we were going to knock Aviva for £20m? Why would Aviva sell back to New-Saints for a much lower price? The stadium site must have some limited potential for redevelopment even in the current straightened times, maybe for student or social housing if nothing else? Be very careful what you wish for; I've not seen much other comment on this but surely there is a very real risk (in splitting the 2 companies and then defaulting on the mortgage) that Saints will lose the ground and end up homeless and ground-sharing? To avoid this type of scene unwinding (defaulting on the mortgage) surely we have to a reasonable level of investment from the new owners? I can not see any way in which we can simply walk away from the mortgage and carry on playing at SMS?

But it's never as simple as that is it? 1 We got relegated 2 We employed an uncaring, shambolic drunk of a manger 3 We spent too much on wages and transfer fees for mostly dross (Idiakez FFS) 4 We mainted a near-Premier Lge set-up in terms of academy/squad-size/off the field ops/ticket prices etc. 5 We bought back one of the most despised and divisive chairmen in the whole of the football league 6 We continued (and still continue) to employ unfit, injury prone, uncaring, unprofessional players 7 We failed to actively seek out alternative funding/ownership (going as far as to actively discourage 'inward investment') 8 We failed to make any meaningful bond with the spectators/fans ('customers' if you will) and grow any loyalty and community base (au contraire 'the fans' have been consistently lied to and patronised) 9 We removed the most popular and only half-decent manager we have had since WGS and replaced him with an unproven and inexperienced foreign Dream Team with a mission to get out of the CCC (which end?) playing 'revolutionary football'. 10 We have demoralised our core support to a point where the combination of ticket prices/ lack of success/unpopular leadership (closing the corners being but one small example)/overall 'negative' match day experience/recession (throw in presumaby another relegation) will see ST sales down below 10K next season. Which of 2-10 is/was/were inevitable?

Would it be fair to say we are running out of must-win games? I drew a line after we didn't beat Sheff Utd, we then won 3 out of 3 (false hope) and since then have reverted strictly to type. For what it's worth I don't think we will get more than 5 points from the 3 remaining home games, that leaves us probably wanting 10 points from the 5 away games... we will do very, very well if we can take it to the last day....

Surman RB BWP RM Mills LB Skacel LM Would freshen it up a bit?

Possibly the draw that broke the camel's back? Coat's on ...........

Over-priced, over-hyped, and over here. I can't help thinking we'd have been better off with £1.2m-worth of Robbie Savages / Darren Moores / Matt Oakleys / Jay Tabbs (or even. shock-horror, a full season of Skacel/Saga/Euell). LOWE OUT.