VectisSaint

This has been my point all along with this boycott. It isn't visible and therefore has little real impact. It is impossible to know how big or small a boycott is. The boycott is pointless without other action being taken. It is all very well the boycotters saying it is hurting Lowe in the pocket, but how can that be demonstrated when Lowe realises that there are other factors that are causing fans to leave in droves. The boycott may be large or small, I have no way of knowing, and for the same reason nor does Lowe. The biggest reason for stay aways at the moment is almost certainly the results, continuous home defeats. I support the people who are boycotting, but I cannot support the boycott itself because it is completely ineffective. I cannot personally boycott because I am not a regular attender anyway, so me boycotting would be even more silly. I went to Watford and quite frankly watched the biggest load of rubbish for 90 minutes (yes, unlike most I stayed to the end). That game made me realise that it is not worth all of the effort to go until things change, but I suspect I will make a couple more visits before Christmas because Saints are in my blood and I need the fix every so often. I do suspect the Club are beginning to realise there is a problem, witness the bigging up of the performance on Saturday on the OS. This is a sign of desparation, getting our opponents to say how good we are, after they have beaten us. At the end of the day, we lost, it doesn't matter how you package it, we scored less goals than the other team therefore we got 0 points. 6 points out of 27 at home = relegation and supporters staying away.

Law 12. "A player is sent off and shown the red card if he commits any of the following seven offences: 1 is guilty of serious foul play 2 is guilty of violent conduct etc etc " Decision 4 adds "A tackle that endangers the safety of an opponent must be sanctioned as serious foul play". Clearly if the ref decided that the tackle was dangerous he had no option but to send Euell off. There is a separate argument about whether it was dangerous or not, and maybe the ref got that wrong, but he has no choice or discretion about the sanction.

Believe it guys, we are in for a relegation struggle. If people continue to believe, like Jan, that things will be alright, we will find ourselves in Division 3 before anyone has realised. It can still be fixed, but Lowe has to realise that he has to forego his principles and realise that his experiment will not work while we have a coach in charge who thogh he may technically have some good ideas, is floundering in the English league.

The FA don't normally take account of the views of supporters who tend to be a tad biased

Thankfully I think its clear to most people that you are talking ******. If we lost all our remaining games, that would mean that Watford would have beaten us and therefore gained at least 3 more points than us. It would also mean Forest picked up 6 points more than us. Getting the picture? You see, we don't play our remaining games against fictitious teams, but against other teams in the same division All this business about form is crap anyway. The fact is we have played more home games than some of our opponents, such as Watford. Watford have won 37.5% of their home games, so extrapolation would suggest they will win at least 8 home matches, and draw about 5 or 6, which is a much healthier return than our form based on a large sample (9) currently would suggest. The main point however is that whatever form we are in, we are the least likely of the teams around us to do something positive to change the situation. Watford have already sacked their manager, and new manager syndrome will have some short term impact there. Charlton will be making a move soon unless Mr Pardew has a collection of rabbits and hats hidden away, and Norwich have Leroy Lita baning in goals for fun. We on the other hand have Rupert Lowe with his experiment which he cannot possibly be seen to accepting has failed, and he will probably persevere until the bitter end, continuing to push the nice but hopelessly out of his depth Jan Poortvliet with a bunch of young kids, most of whom are on loan. Thats the problem. Form is temporary, Lowe is permanent.

No, I think anyone that knows anything about football would have realised the wisdom of not pushing the lad too much. Keep him on the bench give him a few second half outings, with his enthusiasm he could have been a decent weapon coming on against tired legs. But thats the problem, for all everyone thinks JP is great with youngsters he proved yet again that he really is out of his depth and doesn't have a clue. Whereas someone who really knows about working with kids in the English league system would probably have used him sparingly, and to think that someone is now helping Mandaric at Leicester because Lowe could not swallow his pride. That is why this experiment of Lowe's is such a farce, because far from bringing on good young players the epxeriment is forcing youngsters in with too much pressure too soon and will have a negative impact on all but the very best.

Shilton

So why is he selected and not Cork?

Good potential. Looked good coming on as sub at Preston, but that didn't warrant him starting the next 2 games. A good manager would have held him back, gave him a few more sub outings first.

Unlike Saints, Norwich are probably more savvy than to loan out a plyer to a close rival.

Shame really that he is only with us for another6 weeks, and during that time is unavailable for 2 matches. He will be back to Reading in January if he continues to play the way he is.

Forest are more of a premiership club than Watford, bigger club than any of the three for that matter. Charlton will be ok once they change their manager, Watford will also be sorted (and clearly they are better than us, on the evidence of their recent visit) and Norwich have the forward power to win some games with Lita. Forest are gradually improving, good result yesterday almost got 3 points, and even Donny won. So the question probably should be which 2 teams will join Saints in Division 3 next season, because we are the only ones who currently do not look to have a hope of improving. That could all change of course if Wilde & Lowe see sense (some hopes) and replace JP with a half decent British manager

Good plan, lets start with 10 players. Another head in the sand, we'll be alright with the spirit we showed today.

The negative people who are killing this Club are Wilde, Lowe and Poortvliet, in that order. Those who cannot see that JP is so far out of his depth as to be laughable are the negatives who cannot see that there is a better way, whether or nor we have money. Half decent British manager who is not a yes-man, with the same funds would have us mid-table.

Both have the same net effect. I agree its better to lose with passion and excitement, but losing is still losing and gains exactly zero points. I look forward to your views next season (unless something changes drastically) when you say, yes we are bottom of League One on -15 points, but at least we play with spirit and enthusiasm last season. Some people need to get their heads out of the sand and realise it does not have to be like this. There are better coaches out there who could do more with this same set of players, and would even have better ideas who could be brought in on loan due to their knowledge of the English game. Jan is not the answer and the sooner he is politely asked to leave the more chance we have of avoiding relegation and administration that will follow. I don't always/often see eye to eye with Alpine, but most people here are just criticising him because he is critical of a game he did not see. But once again his analysis of the outcome, if not the game itself, is spot on, just like it was with Burley and his lack of defenders etc. I didn't see the game either, and heard that we played well once we were 2-0 down and a man down, and the ref was ****e (aren't they always) and that we showed great spirit once Perry came on, but at the end of the day we gained ZERO POINTS at home AGAIN. 6 points from 27 AT HOME = relegation.

We played 2 home games on the trot, so good chance Tommy would get the nod.

JP rotates the back up keeper, last 4 games, 2 benches for Bart, 2 for Tommy. he has been doing it most of the season. Actually quite a sensible option, one of the few sensible choices JP is capable of. Keep your sub keepers on their toes, and give them both ressie games to keep up their match "fitness"

No, we don't want Wilde either (in fact I want Wilde out more than Lowe, if for no other reason than Wilde out will be automatically followed by Lowe out anyway). Wilde is the one that has ****ged this club over, not once but twice and the sooner he is out the better.

Trouble is this is the typical head in the sand view. Spirit does not get points. I believe the lads played really well today, and showed great spirit after we went 2-0 down (and had a third disallowed). Its great when a team kicks on when reduced to 10 men by a ridiculous refereeing decision. All brilliant stuff, and all equals 0 points. Our home record stinks and despite all the spirit we will be relegated UNLESS something drastic is changed, new manager, and some experienced players in January (and preferably a new Board). Well played to the boys, we look forward to the time when you are men and we start winning games, hopefully not too many of you will have left when we are relelgated to Division 3.

The point you missed is that, assuming Wilde did say this, then he is an even bigger chump than many of us take him for. This is the idiot that is effectively pulling the strings at SLH plc these days, by giving his backing to Lowe life. If the man thought he had to take Crouch because Lowe insisted as a condition to him "steppping down" then he is not fit to serve the Club. Lowe was on his way out, with or without Crouch's support.

So maybe "renegade" was what was meant, the reference after all was to Lowe. I think bandit describes him well

Let's review that siuation after Saturday shall we? If we are not in the bottom 3 by then we will have had a brilliant weekend (unless watford continue to do us a favour).

I think we already do. At least Jan does.

Please clarify how Crouch failed. He was in charge for less than 6 months (from Dec 2007). As yet we have seen no financials for this period (apart from a wooly trading statement), he had the backing of the Bank, had put plans in place to reduce expenditure (closing corners and cutting the free buses), had loaned out 2 high earners to reduce wages (Rasiak and Skacel) and appointed a manager who was good at working with young players, was British, who had good knowledge and contacts in the English League, and understood that playing one up front was not the correct formula for home matches. In addition Crouch resolved the situation with hte Ted Bates statue, partly through his own financial input. He also was working with the only one of the Wilde Bunch who was actually any good, Lee Hoos. yes he made one mistake, giving Gorman and Dood a chance, a move that I personally thought was a wise decision at the time based on JG's record. If that is failure, then I would take failure any day over the mad experiments of Lowe and the Lap Dog.