VectisSaint

I deleted your guesses of incomes because it is just that. The bit I wanted to highlight was the bit about pearson working with the kids. Pearson is very experienced working with the kids, actually much more so than JP. Please check out NP's credentials working with the England youth set ups, he has worked with England at every age group, up to and including u21. He is highly regarded in this area, and that is what really ****es people off who know his background. He was the absolutely ideal man for the job, working on small budgets, understanding the English game, great working with kids, winning mentality, and a young(ish) English manager. But RL had to have his experiment, and couldn't work with someone he had not appointed, so we got a 3rd rate Dutch lower league coach with no experience of the English game, and no real experience of how to work with kids in a competitive environment.

The problem is that he has shown flashes in the past, and it has gone to his head. He has been bigged up by the Club, making out he is some sort of superstar, and like many other youngsters he has taken his eye off th ball, donned the flashy boots and thought he had it made, job done. Sadly our wonderful coaching set up that is so experienced working with young players don't see this and continue to make him an automatic choice, instead of taking him aside, giving him a right bollocking and dropping him to the reserves for a while until he gets a sense of perspective.

I think you may be right with the first part of your statement, unlike the second part where you are so wide of the mark it is untrue. Sadly, McG could become a good player. What he needs is a coach that understands how he could become a good player, to play in a system that suits his style, and to play alongside an experienced player who can take some of the heat off him and help him score goals. He will get none of that at Southampton under the present regime. Meanwhile we have to put up with his ego, and with him being played continually even though he is playing poorly, and if we soldier on with him regardless as seems to be the plan, we plummet to League 1. For another player that has no loyalty to us, and is strictly not a product of our youth system I don't see why we persist. Finally, he also needs an enormous kick up his lardy arse before he fritters away a promising career.

In short "we're crap", there thats even shorter than your "in short".

On the other hand the latter 3 are all able to score goals, which in turn changes draws into wins and defeats into draws, so lets say one of them cost 8k (and I 'm not sure I believe your maths), an increase in 1000 through the gates (modest, since a few wins would probably bring back 2-3k) would more than pay for at least one of them to be here. sadly the plank is unable to see things that way.

I would guess that we would have about 20 serious applications to take the job on. There are many good young managers out there looking for an opportunity like Saints. They may not necessarily know what they are letting themselves in for, but I don't seriously believe there would be any shortage of applicants for the job. Just hope against hope that Lowe doesn't make his usual mistake and promote from within. I hear that theres an irish bloke keane to get back into management (I know I'm joking, would be great fun to see Roy and Rupert head to head though)

At start of season I thought relegation was quite likely. But that was before I really understood JP and his tactical ability. Now I think relegation is nailed-on. UNLESS, something is doen pdq to replace a 3rd rate coach who has no idea how to manage a team in the CC (cue pathetic replies about us having no money so he's the best we can afford ****** rubbish)

Bugger everything else, I want us to beat Forest because I hate them. I hate them for being our bogey team in the late 70s/80s, and beating us twice at Wembley. Oh and 3 points would be nice

Jonah, thanks for clarifying, once I had picked my way through your bile your answers were just what I was looking for in my original post. I have been given options many times as incentives in my business, sad really that I have never been able to exercise one due to the continued decline of the share price, if only business had boomed I would be quids in now

Thing is, we were actually playing only 4 of our own youngsters last night, and thats counting Surman, who is 21 or so I believe. There are other youngsters in the team but they are loans, so we are gaining nothing from it. The youngest player on the pitch last night was playing for Palace. Palace had three of their academy youngsters on the pitch, all playing effectively. Difference is Warnock understands how to use the young guys effectively, blending them into a team with some experience. The crap that is being talked about by the club about blooding our youngsters as the future of the club is just that, crap. On close inspection we are only really blooding 3 true SFC youngsters, Lallana, James and McG. The other youngsters that are in the team are loans and so are being used because they are cheap, not becauise they are young. Incidentally the remark of the inpexperienced JP last night that older players such as Euell are not on the same wavelength speasks volumes for how out of his depth JP really is. If he really believes that why did he use Euell in the 3 games up to and including his sending-off? He demonstrated in those 1 and 2-bit games that he formed an effective partnership up front. Blaming Euell for not being on the same wavelength of the kids is a total joke. Problem is no-one is on the same wavelength of the ego that is McG.

I know, I just wanted to say something controversial I don't really think its the answer. Although actually, Hoddle has been a failure recently, as I have said many many times in the past, he is a failure when he is not working with Gorman. They only work effectively as a partnership.

You can only create chances for strikers if they are prepared to work, and get into positions where they can make a difference. McG and Robertson had no idea what do last night, how to work the channels, how to get in behind the defenders. Thats what makes it look as though the MF were not creative. Poor, totally ineffective strikers will make MF look poor. No point having wingers crossing from the byline when we have two powder puffs up front.

Some people seem to be forgetting the basic premise of the game of football. It is all about the team that scores the most goals (and in competitive football therefore earns the points). Simple really. We are n't scoring goals therefore we are not playing the game effectively. All this talk about pretty football is complete ******. the football we are playing is not particularly pretty, and is certainly not effective, therefore it is useless. We sometimes look quite exciting, but usually only when we are 2-0 down, and thats because the opposition by that time know they have won the game and are letting us come on to them so that they can conserve energy - this was precisely the case last night. We have to change the way we play, to be incisive and to have effectiveness up front, our "forwards" are powder puff weak and will never score enough goals, we need an old head with some guile and experience (not necessarily saying someone we already have), just for now someone like Kuqi or Windyass could work wonders, but of course is not possible because of our "philosophy". I am somewhat shocked that JP showed his inexperience again by singling out named players that he thought gave their all last night, that is something that should be kept in the dressing room. Thought his remarks were extremely harsh on Skacel and BWP who showed desire and effort. As for McG and Robertson, they may as well have stayed in Southampton, both a total waste of space. Also thought the withdrawal of Pearce while understandable to a degree actually made us even less likely to score, which is what you need to do when 2-0 down, since he is probably our most potent attacking option, at least from set-pieces.

Didn't we used to stay somewhere when WGS was in charge, Rod Stewart's or something. I don't often defend Lowe (in fact I hardly ever do) but in this case maybe, just maybe the cost was borne by someone else, or maybe the hotel was offered free by some benefactor. If I'm wrong then "Lowe Out".

For the short term it has to be Lallana, would be a shame because he will be top class one day, but Drew is far more important to us right now. Perhaps we could do a deal, buy Lallana get McGoldrick free.

Does seem harsh on Drew, if true. But has to be said spot on in terms of McG and Robertson. Personally apart form one moment when he fluffed control of a long pass from Wotton (I think) I though BWP had a good game, and has at last shown that he does have a touch. I know its not popular to say positive things about Bradley, but I would rather see him on the field any day rather than McG.

No, as I said on the other thread we need to Chairman to see the folly of having a 3rd rate coach and get someone in who can work with what we have. Unlike you I do have faith in these players, but they are being lead by a nice bloke put in an invidious position by a loony and sadly for him (because I genuinely like the guy, JP that is not RL), he isn't up to it. As you say we are not dead yet, there is still time for Lowe to put this right, but I despair that he will have the guts to admit his experiment is wrong and replace JP with someone who could at least keep us in this division, because unless that change is made, we will be relegated. Thats not giving up, its being realistic enough to see that a change needs to be made, and that change is the man picking the team.

Easy one, Wilde is presumably not allowed out of Jersey. What a jole we are, a plc chairman who thinks he is God's gift tto football, and a football chairman who can't go to many games because he is a tax exile. In any case, Lowe probably told him to be a good boy and not show his face, he might make himself unpopular.

Really can't be arsed to watch any more. Its a ****ing shambles. Of course we have had 78% possession so the pretty football brigade will be happy. Thats what happens when you are 2-0 up, conserve your energy, take a gift if it comes your way and let the opposition play their socks off to no effect. But of course we can't afford anything else. FFS that is ********. We can afford a decent manager to get these players playing well, with decent tactics and with a good mix of the experience and the youngsters. We don't have to put up with a third rate coach just because we are skint.

Everyone knows it was a foul, except the ref, but thats what happens when you come up against experience. Kids get bullied (shouldn't do, but thats life). Its no good blaming the ref, yes he made a mistake, but he could also have give a pen in the first minute (although that too would have been a mistake) and many refs would have done. Stop looking for excuses, the problem is there for all to see, and it is not the ref.

OK, maybe you could signal your irony in some way, with some of the folks on here I was thinking you could be serious There is no doubt we play pretty football, and at times it is quite thrilling to watch, but quite honestly it is mostly quite embarrasing watching our youngsters having their confidence destroyed by a bunch of thugs (well Kuqi anyway). But thats Warnock for you, just wish we had him instead of Jan Nice but Dim Poortvliet.

If thats the best MF in the country then I would hate to see the rest. MF have defensive duties as well. We are powder puff weak in MF, useless up front and a pushover (literally) for big players at the back. Still we do have a good GK. We are truly shockingly awful tonight, lucky to still be in with a shout at 2-0, but hey the football is pretty (and sometimes exceedingly good in small doses). JP needs to take McG off, push Bradders up front with Robertson. I will complement BWP, his touch has improved amazingly since last year, and hae really is beginning to show some deft skills at times, I never thought I would say that.

No wonder we are in the ****, Jim Hone is still the Chairman. You'd think this data would have been updated by now, it was a year ago that the Wilde Bunch stood down (sadly Wilde is still with us).

As usual you (choose to) miss the main point because it criticises your heroes. OK Euell is not in the squad. Fair enough. Most people with a modicum of understanding of football believe he should be (bit don't think hes the greatest thing since sliced bread), you don't thats your choice. But when the OS posts a Squad Update detailing all the players available/not available, why not mentioned Euell's status. If he is injured, fair enough say so, if he is not yet ready, say so, if Jan thinks he is a tosser for getting sent off and will never play him again, then say so. Don't just blank the supporters. Thats all. Its this treatment of supporters as mushrooms that feeds conspiracy theories, and the sooner Lowe and the OS team realise the better it will be for all, Lowe supporters and haters alike.

The thread is about "underrated" not "overrated". Hammill must have been one of the most overrated, not to mention overweight players ever to grace our team, at least overrated in his own mind. Most under-rated, in recent times I would go along with Oaks, and longer term Graham Baker. Its often the case that players who are critical in the midfield get overlooked, especially when they perform largely defensive roles as Oaks did. I recall many occassions when Oaks was the last line of defence and his tackling back was great. sadly lost his way a little when he was badly injured, and our idiot manager thought it would be better to lose him stick with Jasmine.