VectisSaint

Hammill? Don't remember the legendary goals Oh you must mean that other guy, don't remember his name, foreign sounding, thought he was mainly more central, playing behind the strikers. I think the obvious candidate is Terry Paine, having discounted Paul Telfer and Fabrice The trouble is the different formations played over the years. If you are talking an out and out winger (the original #7) then it has to be Paine. But in a 4-4-2, I'm not so sure, would Steve Williams fit there, or would he be better in CM? Anyway I will go with Terry. There are certain players for SFC over the years that have to be included, whatever position, Paine, Channon, Davies, Ball, Tiss.

Lowey, Wildey, Ottery, Ponty. Irony

I thought this was good news until I actually read the article. While still good news, it actually says he wants to stay "a bit longer", not that he wants to stay at Saints long term. So some good news, he is prepared to stay and fight to the end of the season, but nothing to suggest he sees Saints as a long term option.

His loan deal ends before the game anyway I believe as does Cork's. So either they won'be here, or a new deal till the end of the season will have been agreed.

Don't worry we won't be playing many of the team on show tonight. It will be their reserves against our youth

50 years ago we were in the 3rd Division (not 3rd Division South, this was the first year after the regionals were scrapped). We were being managed by Ted Bates, and we had Derek Reeves banging in goals for fun. At the end of the season 59-60 we gained promotion back to Div 2, and soon after appeared in a Cup SF against Man U. Within 8 years we gained promotion to the top flight. Quite honestly 50 years ago things were actually looking very bright and little did we know how good things were going to get just around the corner.

I'll repeat my point from yesterday. This idea that this is a team of Saints youngsters just starting out is patently nonsense. There are only 3 players in the regular starting line-up that are effectively in their first season and are Saints players, James, Lallana and McG. Even with these Lallana and McG made appearances last season, and McG is 21, not a real youngster. All the other youngsters are loans, and probably will not be with us for much longer. This team will not be kept together, however much you wish for it, even if Lowe somehow miraculously hangs on to Lallana and Surman in January. So whats to be patient about, we will not see this team develop, what we will see unless things are changed soon is League 1. We have a coach who has no idea how to change tactics to suit opponents or changes during a game (like Burley but in a totally different way), we have no cutting edge and a frail defence and thankfully a keeper who is working miracles this season. We have players on our books who could help to change this. If just one of John, Saga or Rasiak were actually playing for us instead of for our rivals (in 2 cases) we would have more chance of scoring, and perhaps helping McG to be a better player, and hence we could actually be thinking about survival this season. Make no mistake, we may be 4 points above the drop zone, but 2 of the 3 below us are improving, and the other has parachute payments that will help them strengthen in January to avoid the drop. We have time to stop the rot, but in Lowe we do not have the inclination.

I deleted your guesses of incomes because it is just that. The bit I wanted to highlight was the bit about pearson working with the kids. Pearson is very experienced working with the kids, actually much more so than JP. Please check out NP's credentials working with the England youth set ups, he has worked with England at every age group, up to and including u21. He is highly regarded in this area, and that is what really ****es people off who know his background. He was the absolutely ideal man for the job, working on small budgets, understanding the English game, great working with kids, winning mentality, and a young(ish) English manager. But RL had to have his experiment, and couldn't work with someone he had not appointed, so we got a 3rd rate Dutch lower league coach with no experience of the English game, and no real experience of how to work with kids in a competitive environment.

The problem is that he has shown flashes in the past, and it has gone to his head. He has been bigged up by the Club, making out he is some sort of superstar, and like many other youngsters he has taken his eye off th ball, donned the flashy boots and thought he had it made, job done. Sadly our wonderful coaching set up that is so experienced working with young players don't see this and continue to make him an automatic choice, instead of taking him aside, giving him a right bollocking and dropping him to the reserves for a while until he gets a sense of perspective.

I think you may be right with the first part of your statement, unlike the second part where you are so wide of the mark it is untrue. Sadly, McG could become a good player. What he needs is a coach that understands how he could become a good player, to play in a system that suits his style, and to play alongside an experienced player who can take some of the heat off him and help him score goals. He will get none of that at Southampton under the present regime. Meanwhile we have to put up with his ego, and with him being played continually even though he is playing poorly, and if we soldier on with him regardless as seems to be the plan, we plummet to League 1. For another player that has no loyalty to us, and is strictly not a product of our youth system I don't see why we persist. Finally, he also needs an enormous kick up his lardy arse before he fritters away a promising career.

In short "we're crap", there thats even shorter than your "in short".

On the other hand the latter 3 are all able to score goals, which in turn changes draws into wins and defeats into draws, so lets say one of them cost 8k (and I 'm not sure I believe your maths), an increase in 1000 through the gates (modest, since a few wins would probably bring back 2-3k) would more than pay for at least one of them to be here. sadly the plank is unable to see things that way.

I would guess that we would have about 20 serious applications to take the job on. There are many good young managers out there looking for an opportunity like Saints. They may not necessarily know what they are letting themselves in for, but I don't seriously believe there would be any shortage of applicants for the job. Just hope against hope that Lowe doesn't make his usual mistake and promote from within. I hear that theres an irish bloke keane to get back into management (I know I'm joking, would be great fun to see Roy and Rupert head to head though)

At start of season I thought relegation was quite likely. But that was before I really understood JP and his tactical ability. Now I think relegation is nailed-on. UNLESS, something is doen pdq to replace a 3rd rate coach who has no idea how to manage a team in the CC (cue pathetic replies about us having no money so he's the best we can afford ****** rubbish)

Bugger everything else, I want us to beat Forest because I hate them. I hate them for being our bogey team in the late 70s/80s, and beating us twice at Wembley. Oh and 3 points would be nice

Jonah, thanks for clarifying, once I had picked my way through your bile your answers were just what I was looking for in my original post. I have been given options many times as incentives in my business, sad really that I have never been able to exercise one due to the continued decline of the share price, if only business had boomed I would be quids in now

Thing is, we were actually playing only 4 of our own youngsters last night, and thats counting Surman, who is 21 or so I believe. There are other youngsters in the team but they are loans, so we are gaining nothing from it. The youngest player on the pitch last night was playing for Palace. Palace had three of their academy youngsters on the pitch, all playing effectively. Difference is Warnock understands how to use the young guys effectively, blending them into a team with some experience. The crap that is being talked about by the club about blooding our youngsters as the future of the club is just that, crap. On close inspection we are only really blooding 3 true SFC youngsters, Lallana, James and McG. The other youngsters that are in the team are loans and so are being used because they are cheap, not becauise they are young. Incidentally the remark of the inpexperienced JP last night that older players such as Euell are not on the same wavelength speasks volumes for how out of his depth JP really is. If he really believes that why did he use Euell in the 3 games up to and including his sending-off? He demonstrated in those 1 and 2-bit games that he formed an effective partnership up front. Blaming Euell for not being on the same wavelength of the kids is a total joke. Problem is no-one is on the same wavelength of the ego that is McG.

I know, I just wanted to say something controversial I don't really think its the answer. Although actually, Hoddle has been a failure recently, as I have said many many times in the past, he is a failure when he is not working with Gorman. They only work effectively as a partnership.

You can only create chances for strikers if they are prepared to work, and get into positions where they can make a difference. McG and Robertson had no idea what do last night, how to work the channels, how to get in behind the defenders. Thats what makes it look as though the MF were not creative. Poor, totally ineffective strikers will make MF look poor. No point having wingers crossing from the byline when we have two powder puffs up front.

Some people seem to be forgetting the basic premise of the game of football. It is all about the team that scores the most goals (and in competitive football therefore earns the points). Simple really. We are n't scoring goals therefore we are not playing the game effectively. All this talk about pretty football is complete ******. the football we are playing is not particularly pretty, and is certainly not effective, therefore it is useless. We sometimes look quite exciting, but usually only when we are 2-0 down, and thats because the opposition by that time know they have won the game and are letting us come on to them so that they can conserve energy - this was precisely the case last night. We have to change the way we play, to be incisive and to have effectiveness up front, our "forwards" are powder puff weak and will never score enough goals, we need an old head with some guile and experience (not necessarily saying someone we already have), just for now someone like Kuqi or Windyass could work wonders, but of course is not possible because of our "philosophy". I am somewhat shocked that JP showed his inexperience again by singling out named players that he thought gave their all last night, that is something that should be kept in the dressing room. Thought his remarks were extremely harsh on Skacel and BWP who showed desire and effort. As for McG and Robertson, they may as well have stayed in Southampton, both a total waste of space. Also thought the withdrawal of Pearce while understandable to a degree actually made us even less likely to score, which is what you need to do when 2-0 down, since he is probably our most potent attacking option, at least from set-pieces.

Didn't we used to stay somewhere when WGS was in charge, Rod Stewart's or something. I don't often defend Lowe (in fact I hardly ever do) but in this case maybe, just maybe the cost was borne by someone else, or maybe the hotel was offered free by some benefactor. If I'm wrong then "Lowe Out".

For the short term it has to be Lallana, would be a shame because he will be top class one day, but Drew is far more important to us right now. Perhaps we could do a deal, buy Lallana get McGoldrick free.

Does seem harsh on Drew, if true. But has to be said spot on in terms of McG and Robertson. Personally apart form one moment when he fluffed control of a long pass from Wotton (I think) I though BWP had a good game, and has at last shown that he does have a touch. I know its not popular to say positive things about Bradley, but I would rather see him on the field any day rather than McG.

No, as I said on the other thread we need to Chairman to see the folly of having a 3rd rate coach and get someone in who can work with what we have. Unlike you I do have faith in these players, but they are being lead by a nice bloke put in an invidious position by a loony and sadly for him (because I genuinely like the guy, JP that is not RL), he isn't up to it. As you say we are not dead yet, there is still time for Lowe to put this right, but I despair that he will have the guts to admit his experiment is wrong and replace JP with someone who could at least keep us in this division, because unless that change is made, we will be relegated. Thats not giving up, its being realistic enough to see that a change needs to be made, and that change is the man picking the team.

Easy one, Wilde is presumably not allowed out of Jersey. What a jole we are, a plc chairman who thinks he is God's gift tto football, and a football chairman who can't go to many games because he is a tax exile. In any case, Lowe probably told him to be a good boy and not show his face, he might make himself unpopular.