Whitey Grandad

There's a big difference between taking and earning. That's what this debate is all about.

But that's not fair. Some of the world will get longer than other parts! Perhaps it will be a rolling apocalypse, arriving with the daybreak? Or sunset? Maybe even afternoon tea. If we all go without our tea at four o'clock then perhaps we can be saved after all. See, there's always hope.

Whatever you may think, it cannot possibly be 'greedy' to aspire to earn more money and keep a reasonable proportion of it. Greed is when you want to take money away from somebody else so you can have an easier life yourself. Some call it sponging.

We used to have Child Tax Allowance (along with mortgage interest tax relief) and a separate Family Allowance but there were arguments that the tax allowance went to the father to spend on fags and beer and ought to go direct to the mother so it was all changed. You're right to suggest that the whole system is in dire need of simplification.

Any idea what time on the 21st?

Nor I, and some call me old-fashioned. I'm pretty sure that these two hoaxers never even considered this outcome, but that's the law of unintended consequences. It's not an action that I would ever have undertaken because I don't find it funny and like to think that I still have some dignity. There's always a victim in these circumstances.

There's no need for the abuse. My English may be succinct because it saves typing, but sometimes some readers need further elaboration.

Yes it does. In the former quote it is implicit. I have merely spelt it out in more detail.

Yes, understood. This is a separate argument about whether the state should offer financial assistance to parents.

Don't you mean 'pay a lot of tax'?

It's an increase of tax of £20 a week.

No I'm not. The point I am attempting to put across is that it costs the HMRC a lot less to give the benefit/allowance to everybody who fits the criteria and then increase tax rates slightly to compensate for it than it does to means-test everybody to decide whether they should receive it.

How can it possibly be greedy to earn your own money?

You pay a lot of tax and get some of it back in the form of 'child benefit'. It's far more efficient to hand this back to all who qualify than it is to means test it, and then adjust the tax rates accordingly. It's not a handout, it's a handback.

One more time... These are not handouts, they are merely handing back with one hand a little of the money that was taken with the other hand.

Very sad, may she rest in peace. I hope the hoaxers are feeling pleased with themselves now.

This is an example of why the arguments can get confused. It used to be called 'child allowance'. Now whether you think it right that the state should help parents or not is a different matter, but giving back to the earner a small part of what they earn is not a 'benefit' or 'gift' in my understanding. Such people are already paying more than their fair share of the cost of running our society, in my opinion.

I can only speak for the situation a few years ago when they became professional. I think it was around £75k p.a. plus extra for each match. For that the FA would have first call on their time. A few years before that the FA introduced a scheme whereby any ref living more than 125 (?) miles from the match had to stay in a hotel the night before. On the day of the match the officials and assesor all met up in a hotel conference room provided with a flipchart and the usual refreshments and the whole team was transported to the stadium in one vehicle. Before that I can remember waiting in the car park at the Dell after the match for the players to come out and at the same time the ref and other officials would each get into their own cars and drive off, pausing only to shake the hands of the Man Utd players if they had been the opposition. (I made that bit up, partly).

I love the 'king of sports' , and after I had to stop playing it gave me the best view of the game from the middle of the pitch, and the chance to stay involved.

Means-testing costs a fortune.

So what's the difference in principle between child allowance and the initial tax-free allowance?

There was some discussion a few years ago about why there was a difference between ground-based and satellite-produced figures.

To some extent I do, but I would never cheer the opposition, that is a different response. A polite clap is always appropriate, even if the object of the appreciation can't hear it. I don't sing much anyway, but I don't usually sing my joy when we score a goal.

Well, we had precious little reason to applaud Saints at that time.

How does having a lot of notice give you more money?