Micky

Which goes to show how fundamentally wrong people can be. How many ex drug addicts and alcoholics now work with people to help them fight their addictions, how many ex cons now work with kids in inner city areas teaching them the wrongs of knife and street crime. Quite a few Dune. Very few people are whiter than white, most have wronged in their life in some way, shape or form - but that doesn't consign them to the 'human scrap heap'. If people get a second chance in life and grasp it, then well done to them, especially if it involves helping others along the way. No skeletons in your closet?

Notable...???

Tend to agree, skimmed through the transfer rumour 'mega thread' myself but it's just too difficult to keep tabs on. Had to laugh when we started on about Owen though - what was all that about. Personally would prefer a seperate forum where each player could be discussed individually - would be easier to sort the trash that way.

Without wishing to sound like a ***t, if they were going to die like that, then the quicker the better as far as I am conerned.

What Chez sez (see what I dun there...!). Bridgey was class for us and bloody consistent too. Watched him a couple of times playing for WHU at the end of last season and he did look rusty initially, but saw another game not long after and he put in a MoM performance. Get him somewhere where he can play regular football and he'll prove himself again.

I have to say Dune, much as it fvkin' pains me, on this, with you I concur.

I'd rather not, I'd really rather not. I wouldn't have a clue where to start to look and for what it's worth I probably agree that most burglaries do not end up in violence. But that fact remains that some do. And the fact remains that those that do are solely the responsibility of the burgler - nobody asks to have their home burgled. Therfore when a burgler is confronted they should expect the worst, the very worst - that is the risk they run, that is the nature of their profession. Because you asked me to do some homework, perhaps you'd like to do the same: "....most are more scared than the people they are robbbing." Go on, where on earth did you get that from, where in your CPS department do you have that stat????? I'm really beginning to dispair for the honest hardworking man in the street. Please don't shout at the burgler - you'll scare him. I'm just.... speachle.......

As far as I can glean, once he has refused to return your possessions, refused to leave your property and now has a knife against your throat - it it then time to phone the police.

What utter rubish.

I'm with Gemmel, let's wait and see what we've got to work with before we go pinning our colours to the mast. Who knows, this time next week we might have 4 marquee signings and another Kevin Kegan in the building....!! I can but dream.

JPA - Joint Personnel Administration you mong, 'knel Jamie how long you been in...??? You obviously need more training days...

Schmeichel, Danns and CMS - not bad business I suppose...!

So, Sharp or Maynard then....

They also do not want to get caught and thus banged up - that is when burglers tend to turn more violent. Just for the record, what would you do, or what would you suggest one does when confronted with somebody burgling your home?

By stabbing, shooting or hitting the homeowner first...??

Totally agree about the "I'll fackin do yaaa!!!" brigade Benjii. I also accept that most burglars want to get in and out without detection. But it doesn't always work out like that, leaving the homeowner with some tough choices. I just wonder what some people might be thinking if it was the homeowner that had died in this instance - real glad that the burgler is ok though? When I think about my own personal circumstances, if I was burgled, probably to nearest 'weapon' with which i could arm myself is a knife in the kitchen. Others have eluded to clubs or baseball bats that they have close at hand, which could just as feasibly end up causing a fatality. Minimum or reasonable force, once you have armed yourself, is really quite difficult to guage.

This is indeed a very good point, we do appear, in places to have surrendered the streets to criminals. Are we now expected to do the same with our homes?

Fu ck me Nick, that was brief. So is the homeowner guilty or innocent?

Spurious asrgument given that you said most burglars. We know that, but occassionally it all goes tits up and the burglars get found out and confrontation occurs. Nobody is saying that if you confront a burgler in your house, you kill them - that is just a stupid twist that SOG added to the equation earlier. (Yes a few keyboard warriors bashed their chests about it too - more bravado than substance). However we are in very great danger of supporting the offender more than the offended. As for working in the CPS, that's great, but not really of any relevance. Are we just to let a burgler have free reign of our homes once they have gained access, are we not entitled to do 'something' to try to maintain our posessions? If that 'something' means inflicting harm of any sort will the CPS always charge the homeowner no matter what. As for guidance on the issue, what will it be, a 500 page document covering all eventualities of having your home burgled, people have split seconds to make these choices. Salford MP, Hazel Blears, said: “Obviously each case needs to be judged on the evidence, and at this stage the police are still trying to ascertain what happened.'' “I entirely agree that people should have the right to use reasonable force to protect themselves, their loved ones, and property.” But Ms Blears said: “The doctrine of reasonable force is well established in this country.” Chief Constable of Greater Manchester, Peter Fahy, added in an interview: “The law is very clear if you are being attacked in your own home you can attack back.'' “You can get in the first punch. You can protect your property and protect yourself.” It appears that even those people who should know such guidance are not that clear about it themselves - what chance does the homeowner have. You cannot look at the facts of this case so far and not come down on the side of the homeowner for protecting his family and posessions.

Just turn that hypothetical argument around and have a think about it for a while. You'd quite happily allow a burgerlar to knife your family because of the fear of what may happen in a court. You are cool with that, yes?

So the short answer then Dune is that you were laughing at his disability. Now in a feeble attempt to extract yourself from the situation you point to others who are as bigotted as yourself. If you read the acticles you quoted, they too are now running scared, denying any wrongdoing, covering their actions with petty excuses. Mocking any disabled person really is the lowest of the low.

But we don't know what choices the homeowner had. The burglar could have chosen not to break into the house, but he didn't, and as a result he faced the consequences. The homeowner was put in a position where he had to make choices - whether he chose correctly, remains to be seen. It appears that some people feel happy for a thief to take their posessions so long as they leave them in peace - I find this somewhat staggering really. I'm not advocating that we should all become 'have a go heroes', but if that is to be the common stance buglery could become a daytime occupation. And what of street muggings and theft, if we saw somebody being mugged, do we just turn the other way, pretend we didn't see it, wait till the victim was laying in the street, make sure the mugger had run far enough away. If people simply cave in whenever they are intimidated I fear that the thiefs have won - we'd just as well rename burglery to 'open house, take what you want, please leave quietly, don't wake the kids, shut the door behind you'. There is saying that an Englishmans home is his castle, castles have battlements from where they were defended from invaders, it appears that this is no longer the case and the drawbridge is permenantly open.

But we do agree with him. The point is not about what the most serious offence is - we all know that. The point is what to do when confronted by 4 masked men burgling your house. If somebody is in your house it is very difficult not to have some sort of confrontation, unless of course you live in a mansion. You cannot blame a homeowner for protecting their family and property. How would you have reacted in the homeowners situation? It's tragic that a man had to loose his life in this, but I think most people will agree that he had choices. So it's not the case that we disagree, we don't, we are all in agreement about the offences. Great advice - don't get involved, phone the police. Unfortunately the practicalities of it are very limited.

Very good advice indeed, but it is just that, advice. Hard to avoid conflict with 4 masked men in a two bed semi. What advice do the police give after plan a failed, roll over and die?

It appears that much of this debate is really about the economics of expanding the stadium. That being so, perhaps soon there will be a cheaper, and for many of the fans, a much preferred option: http://bcove.me/caqbid0i I know some will say it will never happen, but it is obviously being debatted, so who knows.