egg

I've never said that Whelk. You know that.

I'll put it another way. Who's suggesting it as a credible solution? Everyone knows that ain't an option. The wider world supports two states. If there's a willingness on Israel's part to achieve that, we've got a start.

Nobody is supporting terrorists. Stop with the childish jibes. Why is it wrong to suggest that Israel do not need to create an environment for change and peace? I assume that's you saying that they don't need change, and it's all on those pesky Palestinians? If I assume wrongly, what are you saying?

Jews don't have to live in a Palestinian state. Who's suggesting that as a solution?

For the 100th time, we're now in a different phase, and Hamas are not Palestine.

I can see both positions Hypo. You're unable to, that's clear. Back to the principles rather than posters. We know that Israel have recently completely refused the idea of 2 states. What we don't know is the Palestinian attitude (it's people, PA, Hamas) if it were offered now on sensible terms (ie full autonomy and no Israeli presence). And yes, I will focus on Israel as for the reasons Benji has posted, it is them who need to create an environment for change and peace.

A state each. Self determination for each state on their own land. Israel have recently rejected that. Again.

You're a broken record. Israel does not want an independent Palestine. For years it has settled the little land that they have, etc, etc. You cannot have peace unless both sides respect the right of the other to exist. It's not complicated.

Of course there's no evidence of what the Gaza folk want. Are you expecting an opinion poll or something from them?! Got any links to the current position of Hamas re 2 states? You appreciate that Hamas don't rule all of the Palestinian land? What does it matter what Hamas/PA/Palestinians think about 2 states given that Israel have dismissed the idea recently?

What are you on about? I have no opinion on the Palestinian's view of Hamas.

No. 7/10 has happened, and we're now in a situation where Israel has decimated Gaza. What people may have said pre all of this doesn't address the now and the future. As I've said up there, we don't know the current Palestinian position on 2 states. Palestine isn't a state. That's the point.

Behave Duck. I'd wager that you're wrong, but let's have a little look at facts rather before we focus on opinion. What the mass Israeli population want, neither of us know. Regardless, their government and many of their people grab land from the Palestinians. Their government have said recently that they oppose a 2 state solution. Facts Ducky, facts, which fly in the face of your opinion. If we're considering opinion, I'd wager that If Israel got out of the west bank and east Jerusalem, and pledged to stay out, that the Palestinian people would be cool with that as a solution alongside Israel.

Why are you focusing on Jews living in a Muslim state? The solution is 2 states, but Israel oppose that and the current Palestinian view on that is not known. And yep, other states cultures and other states interpretation of Sharia has fuck all to with us.

Pretty significant attack by Russia, destroying the largest power plant covering 3 regions including Kyiv. 80 missiles and drones used in one nights attacks. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68788110

Much as our western values make us dislike that kind of culture, it's their culture and we have to accept it for what it is. So would Jews if they lived there.

You're inability to look at this with balance makes discussion impossible Hypo. Israel do not respect the land that the Palestinians already have and constantly settle it and force Palestinians from their land. They oppose 2 states. If the Palestinians supported 2 states, the fact that the Israeli's don't (and wouldn't based on their form in the west bank), means that sustained peace is impossible

What Badger said. Israel have said that they wouldn't be thou, and the settlement policy highlights their stance sadly.

I'm not sure that anyone has suggested that they are. It was necessary, and it still is. I'm more interested in knowing who's in favour of a free Palestinian state alongside Israel.

Yep, but that's not the point that you and Hypo were making (up).

Neither of those options suit me. I don't think he's doing a good enough job, but he can't go now. I'd vote "keep until the end of the season then take a view".

Who? Source for their policies?

Yep. I'm also unclear how it's felt ok to term unspecified countries as "Arab and Muslim states" but not Israel as a "Jewish state". No doubt someone can clear that up.

Arc

Spain now following Australia in saying that they're ready to acknowledge a Palestinian state, ie 2 states. Also describing the Israel response to the 7/10 attacks as "completely disproportionate". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-68777333?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=6616486b683d4b45f9381924%26Spain 'ready to acknowledge Palestinian state' - PM%262024-04-10T08%3A58%3A43.865Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:ea732864-10f2-4164-9ee4-78d8b6dd1ef0&pinned_post_asset_id=6616486b683d4b45f9381924&pinned_post_type=share

The annoying this is that there's a player in there, but he just doesn't put the effort in, or appear interested in the cause. I wouldn't give any more minutes. Enough already.