egg

How do you think that an uprising in Iran would end for the Iranian people? He says "The people on the ground will then take care of the rest". If only it were that easy - look at Syria. I also think that we have a fusion of two motivations. The Iranian one, and the Palestinian resistance/vengeance one. Addressing the former without focus on the Israeli policies and activities which (in part at least) underpin the latter, ain't gonna get us very far.

Thanks. That's an interesting iece. Point 3 is very interesting in terms of his take on the religious fundamentalism which he feels underpins this from the Iranian side. Although that addresses the Iranian motivation to fund a Palestinian fight, it overlooks the Palestinian motivation. I don't buy for one moment that the Palestinians are fighting for the reappearance of the Mahdi rather than independence and release from oppression. His proposed solution is regime change in Israel, essentially brought about by international ostracisation of Iran, prompting an uprising in Iran. Basically that'll be Syria on a bigger scale. Is that a sensible solution? He also says "The IRI have not changed their behaviour one iota in 44 years. Sanctioning them is like being attacked by a group of zombies and politely asking them if they would consider a vegan diet". Is the same not true of the Israel government in terms of UN resolutions re settlements and the treatment of the Palestinians? As interesting as it is, it's one man's take.

Can't disagree with that Hypo. The issue is, and as Whelk raised, whether they'll blame Israel or Hamas. I can't help but think that events like today's attack on the refugee camp (that, to take out one man) will leave them blaming Israel and seeing Hamas as their hope of salvation. Who knows. Clusterfuck doesn't come close.

It's only going one way sadly. Israel won't row backwards, and neither will Palestinian supporters. Worrying times.

Indeed. The sad thing is that I suspect that many want to see Hamas gone, but obviously not at the price they're paying. At the end it this, Gaza and Hamas won't exist in the form that it was before 7/10, but christ knows what happens then.

Strange points. 1 - the behaviour of the Hamas loons on 7/10 has nothing to do with the remaining (vast majority of) Palestinians being stuck with a "government" that they didn't vote for! 2 - the lack of Gaza democracy doesn't mean that Gaza people who would like a democracy should have to go to Egypt and / or Egypt have to take them. Jeez.

You make SoG's point for him. A huge chunk of Palestinians weren't of voting age in 2006. They did not vote for Hamas, so did not vote for the breakdown of Gaza democracy. They are not vote for what they have.

Why should Egypt take Palestinians? Why should the Palestinians have to go to Egypt? Perhaps it would be a tad better for the Palestinians if they lived under less oppression...even moderate Israeli's seem to acknowledge that Palestinians have been treated like shit.

I make no comment about SoG - I'm playing posts, not posters. As an aside ,there are a number of anti semitic (now racist) slurs on this thread from posters who have more class than to do that. On your main point, we must as a society allow peaceful protest, whatever the subject, and the government policy. It's for the police to deal with those acting illegally, but my main point remains.

I think it comes down to the intention of those organising, and the majority of the attendees. If that is to stand there holding a Palestinian flag and a placard saying "free Palestine" or similar, then there's no hate on that. If some loons then shout "death to Israel" or similar, then you have a hate element, but I don't accept that changes the nature of the protest. I take your point on numbers. It's impossible to quantify for me. However, if we start to see peaceful protests becoming generally aggressive, unpleasant, anti semitic, etc, then that's an issue to address. SoG has hit the nail in the head up there about the lack of balance in the discussion, and in the labelling. The government are throwing fuel on that fire. Wrongly labelling peaceful protests mean that we continue this issue of wrongly labelling peaceful protesters or objectors.

"I don't like what you're saying, so I'll imply that you're a racist. Bollox to my islamaphobia though".

Stay on topic Hypo. This ain't EDL. A few hate filed nutters in a group of peaceful protesters doesn't make the protests 'hate marches'.

Don't confuse the hateful behaviour of some individuals in attendance at the protests with the non hateful nature of the protests.

So all cool if Israel take out al-shifa? On to our domestic politics, Bravermans 'hate marches' comment was pathetic and unhelpful. As for Starmer, he lied through his teeth when back tracking over his support for the siege. I've got no idea what he'll come out with next, and I'm not sure he does either!

I get that, but there has to be red lines. Take the al-shifa hospital. Packed with patients and civilians using it as as shelter. Israeli says it's a place for "terrorists to hide". Let's assume that to be correct, and even a place where rooms are used for Hamas to meet. Israel have warned people to evacuate, and they haven't. Are Israel now ok to blow it up?

Sure, they're after Hamas, and in a tightly packed Gaza, of course they'll be amongst the people. But you don't take out 100 civilians to get 1 or 2 Hamas blokes. Rallyboy is correct in what he says. Israel, if you're incredibly generous and give them the benefit the doubt, are making minimal effort to spare civilians in attacking what they deem a legitimate target. They've been killing civilians, including shooting kids through the gaza fence and in the west bank for years, so I'm not giving them that benefit. I'd like to hear their explanation as to why some targets have been hit, and why they've been hit knowing they're likely to contain civilians.

I'm old school and have it on vinyl. I don't normally do compilations, but this is a brilliant collection of songs. Coles Corner is a thing of beauty.

Shark

That kick didn't look accidental. He's got a case to answer for me.

Test

Depraved Hamas cunts Whelk. No need to make it an anti Muslim thing.

Edit. Just read the article properly. The attack was clearly aimed at Jews, so was clearly anti semitic. Sad times.

Edited below 👇

Absolutely disgraceful. If it kept driving at the tank, then taking it out is fair game, but not when it's driving away.

Great to do between flat bench sets, especially in german volume training. 10 sets of 10 reps...flat bench, straight to supine rows 30 sets break. Repeat X 10. Anyways, I digress.