egg

Yep...7 points between us and 21st place.

It was that or an out if position Charles. RM can only play who he's got.

Meghoma the only defensive cover. 😳

I read on here that he was injured. Meghoma has been the u21 LB so I'd assume he'd be the one we turn to if we're desperate.

They don't want to blow themselves up for the fun of it Weston. They're willing to die for a cause.

Personally, I think Jews, Arabs, and random people in the wrong place at the wrong time will get caught. I think there's a much bigger risk of pro Arab and anti semitic attacks.

"All of their drive" I'd disagree with. Sure, martyrdom flowing from interpretation of Islam will be a driver for some, but one cannot ignore why they're willing to be a martyr. I've watched the first half if that video that Hypo posted up and the fella Sam spends a long time saying that in his opinion Muslims want martyrdom for ideology reasons alone. That overlooks that martyrdom is something that some are willing to succumb to in pursuit of a cause. That cause must logically include vengeance, opposition to occupation, etc.

There's no stats for what hasn't happened yet Whelk. I hope I'm wrong that this doesn't hit our shores, but I suspect you're in minority if you think (hope) that it won't. I'll watch the vid later. I suggest watching the vice news vid that was posted on here yesterday if you haven't.

An excuse to us, but justification for them. The thing is, there's justification/excuse throughout this dispute, and at every turn. When an idf soldier shoots and maims a kid for throwing a stone, the idf soldier sees himself as justified whereas the Palestinians see the stone throwing as an excuse to cause harm. The Palestinians then fire a rocket knowing it could maim innocents, and see the shooting of the kid as justification, whereas the Israeli's consider it an excuse. The idf respond with reprisals. And it goes on, and will go on in perpetuity by the looks of it. That's not a statement in support of anyone. It's an objective view of what's been happening.

Semantics/details aside, more fundamentalists will inflict harm on people living in Britain as a result of this. That shouldn't happen, but it undoubtedly will.

That's sad to hear CB, but understandable. I've felt safe anywhere I've been over the last few years, whether it be the tube, a theatre, a plane, whatever. That will change sadly.

Agreed. We have cover of sorts at RB, but nothing at LB. It'll be interesting to see who plays there tonight. I'm expecting KWP at LB with Bree (probably) at RB which will disrupt us. Meghoma could be given a go, but I doubt it. Another CF depends on what happens with the new bloke but assuming he can come in soon and stay fit, I'd like to see another come in and Mara moved on.

We're seeing bits already - the fella stabbed at the ATM a couple of weeks ago was mindless, and seemingly in the name of this. Collective punishment leads to collective punishment which leads to collective punishment, etc.

Not what I've said, but try telling American's that 9/11 was a weak attack. Try telling Israeli's that 7/10 was a weak response. No sensible person should agree that whatever Israel do in Gaza will end the violence. It'll increase it, and whether anything from the the Arab/Palestinian side is "harder" is academic - the fact is that it'll be deadly, and lead to the circle of violence continuing.

If we're back to insults rather than constructive discussion, you really are being a prick for the sake of being a prick. SoG has said nothing that gets remotely close to being a terrorist sympathiser. He's stated facts. If they touch a nerve, then look at yourself, not SoG.

Blue

This for me is important. I get the desire to be rid of Hamas, but think back to the Beirut siege in 1982 (a siege that the Israeli's were criticised for btw) and the aftermath. Israel wanted to eliminate the PLO. Sure, they were pushed out, but not for long and the resistance ideology increased. We then got all sorts of other resistance/militia/terrorist groups, and the wish for retaliation. Indeed, Bin Laden said in 2001 that the 1982 siege was part of the motivation for 9/11. Don't get wrong, he didn't need any motivation, but if nothing else that siege gave him what he felt was a justifiable excuse. If Hamas are dealt with, there'll be a replacement along soon enough. It's a futile pursuit by Israel that will only make things worse for them, the region, and the rest of us.

They've bombed Syrian airports a few times now. Syria have nipped back with a few shells into open land. Israel have responded with air strikes killing and injuring Syrian soldiers. Israel are doing a decent job of causing the expansion that the US apparently don't want.

Your interpretation of the video is bewildering. The video includes Hamas members opposing the Israeli occupation. It did not feature civilian Palestinians. It said absolutely nothing about the civilian population taking issue with Jews. It also showed a block of flats being blown up killing a woman and her kids. Hamas were not there. It also contained an admission that no warning was given to the occupants. It also gave no explanation for why the flats were blown up. And all that from people who try really hard not to kill civilians, something you swallow cos the idf say so.

You're after a lot of evidence Hypo. As you know, there is none, save for the obvious that's in front of us. Gutteres says what I've said throughout. I'm comfortable that I agree with that rather then IDF propaganda. If you haven't, I'd recommend watching the video that GM posted. The short video at the end will tell you what the long term impact of the Israeli action will be - kids are being radicalised by the Israeli attacks and occupation, and the cycle of violence will continue.

As you expect others to comment on the IDF's public statements, it's fair to ask if you agree with the Gutteres quotes above, or not...

Have you seen the destruction in Gaza? The death count? The historic attacks on civilians, including unarmed kids? That is not the actions of a peace loving nation trying desperately hard to avoid harming civilians. I'm just glad that the UN see it as it is. Not that they'll be able to do anything though. Antonio Guterres has called for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza, adding there are “clear violations” of international humanitarian law in the besieged enclave “Let me be clear: No party to an armed conflict is above international humanitarian law,” Guterres told a session of the UN Security Council. Guterres also pushed for much more humanitarian relief to be allowed into Gaza. The UN chief says it was important to recognise the attacks by Hamas “did not happen in a vacuum”. “The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation,” he told UNSC members. “They have seen their land steadily devoured by settlements, plagued by violence, their economy stifled, their people displaced and their homes demolished. Their hopes for a political solution to their plight have been vanishing.” However, Guterres said the grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the “appalling attacks” by Hamas, and which in turn could not justify the “collective punishment of the Palestinian people”. “At a crucial moment like this, it is vital to be clear on principles – starting with the fundamental principle of respecting and protecting civilians.” Do you disagree with Guterres?

What do you think Israel will do with the south once they've finished in the north? If you feel that the Israeli action in the north is justified because Hamas have a presence there, presumably you believe that the same action in the south is ok?

The sheer scale and depravity of the 7/10 attacks does not alter the appalling behaviour of the Israeli government before and since. That behaviour gives no justification for Hamas actions, and imo those actions do not justify the response that we've seen. I'm not remotely interested in propaganda, but it seems like it's worked on you. You are right to judge Hamas by it's actions. We all do. Israel should also be judged in the same way.

That seems likely, but what happens when they've finished in the north? They'll doubtless turn their attention to the south. If so, the Palestinians who've been pushed south have nowhere in Gaza to go (or be safe) once the north has been flattened.