egg

If you want to have a chat about Afghanistan (or Syria) crack on and start a thread mate.

I don't doubt that, and that ia why I believe there's a genuine push to force the Gaza population over the permanently. Netanyahu can't genuinely believe that he'll eradicate the Hamas threat from Gaza with military action. However, he'll be pretty certain that it is achievable if there's no Palestinians in Gaza and/or Gaza is destroyed to such an extent that no Palestinians can live there.

There's no loathing of Israel on this thread. There's loathing for the behaviour of the Israeli government. The difference is huge.

I'm not sure on the answer, but the Israeli government know that they won't wipe out Hamas or it's ideology. Until occupation ends I don't think that the ideology has even a modicum of hope of being erased. Even then I'm struggling to see that it will end, and events like this past week (the actions of both sides) only amplify the ideology that exists on both sides. Fwiw, I think we haven't seen anything yet in terms of this conflict. It won't end well for Palestinians, or Gaza and the West Bank, and it's people.

Ditto. I get that they'd had enough, but what they did was large scale terrorism. Sure, they expected a response , but did they expect something on this scale? The denial of water and food? The forced exodus to South Gaza, and then in all likelihood over the border? In terms of motivation I think that they thought that others would draw themselves in and attack Israel. In reality I can't see that happening. On that, Hamas didn't read the room.

I'm not getting into a Corbyn chat, but the rest of it is spot on. I honestly don't think that Western governments, and their supportive media, have read the room in terms of public opinion.

Sorry Badger, well reminded.

This is a very passionate and honest article from a Canadian journalist. I couldn't agree more with this part: "The monstrous plan is as plain as Netanyahu’s wretched character: Be done with Gaza by erasing Gaza. Anyone, anywhere, in any forum who denies this fact is either a liar, blind – or willfully, happily, and comfortably both". https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/14/this-is-genocide

Yep. Too good a game for the QF. 30 odd phases at the end, but superb defence from NZ.

Bath

...

Paper

His selection alone justified it. Plus the performance. Plus the other stuff.

Lobster

Aerial

Ford

Read above Del. SoG has not dragged this thread down - he has contributed sensibly to the discussion. The descent of this thread is unfortunate, and hopefully it can get back to people offering their respective views in a reasonable way. Too many decent threads have been ruined by unnecessary nonsense, and this one is going the same way.

"Thick sunshine" doesn't have a great ring to it to be fair. Saying nothing probably more sensible though. On a general point, it's sad to see this thread, on such a difficult and sensitive subject, descend into the usual name calling and childish bollox. Most of the posters seem like intelligent people and you'd like to think they could focus on the issues rather than the people actually trying to discuss the issues.

If the people you spoke with wanted to see Gaza eradicated I can't imagine that they would tell a foreign traveller. Regardless, Netanyahu has said in the past week that he'll turn Gaza to rubble, not that you'll have seen msm report that. The Israeli government have form for doing what they want, not necessarily their people. Indeed, their leaders have previous for doing what they want, regardless of the government or public opinion - look at what Sharon did to the Bedouin people and it's land in Sinai. It's also worth remembering what Israel's defence minister said about Lebanon and Hezbollah recently. The quote is below - substitute Hamas for Hezbollah and Gaza for Lebanon and it's chillingly close to what we're seeing, and will doubtless see over coming days and weeks. “Do not make a mistake. We do not want a war. But we are prepared to protect our civilians, our soldiers and our sovereignty", "You (Lebanon / Hezbollah) have made mistakes in the past, you have paid very heavy prices. If … an escalation or conflict develops here, we will return Lebanon to the Stone Age.”, Gallant went on to say that Israel would not hesitate to use its power to “erode every inch of Hezbollah and Lebanon if we have to”. That's the reality of the Israeli governments mind set, right there.

There's a certain irony to Britain, Egypt and France ending up with Palestinian refugees. Bloody sad though.

It's different messages, but why should the FA follow the government position. Even the BBC have (to a fashion) have refused to follow orders and call Hamas terrorists. The FA position, particularly on the armbands, is respectfully neutral in terms of the impact of what's happened/happening on both sides. The arch decision, I suspect, is based on the same principles.

This post crossed with yours. Hopefully we can all keep on topic, and he civil. I'll do my best.

Your full on with the petty insults and digs on this thread Whelk. How's about trying to address the actual issues and comments, rather than the posters. Just a thought, sunshine.

I mean no disrespect Duck, but there's a naivety to this. Netanyahu has essentially said that he wants to flatten Gaza. He's doing that. He now wants the top half of Gaza to move south. That allows that half of the job to be finished. What do you think he'll do after that, leave the Palestinians to live in peace in the south? Of course he won't, he'll need the Palestinians out of there so he can finish the job there (or clear out Hamas as he'll sell it). Where do those people then go? The north is destroyed so it won't be there. It can only be Sinai. I may be wrong, but if the Palestinians move to south Gaza I'd be staggered if we don't see a max exodus of Palestinians to Sinai simply as there is nowhere else for them. They'll have next to nothing left to go back to, and even if they did, it'll be undoubtedly be under Israeli control. Let's see how this pans out, but this isn't about crushing Hamas. Sure, Hamas brought a response upon itself and the Palestinians, but what's happening and will happen is beyond the pale.

You're just making stuff up now. Behave. I'm not sure how someone who is appalled by the Hamas actions is "justifying terrorism". To quote your words to Benji above, you're better than that. Probably. I'm not pro the Israeli governments actions. Absolutely not. That does not make me pro Hamas.