Lord Duckhunter

I happen to believe that the cause of withdrawal will be better served by labour winning the election that the Tories winning it. Even better would be the Tories in coalition with a 4th place ( in terms of popular vote) lib/dem party. My reasoning is that Dave is lining us up for a Harold Wilson tribute act. Go to Brussels , renegotiate and get **** all worth while , but try and con the British people by claiming a victory. With the weight of the establishment , self interested big business and wet Tory lip spittle rags like The Times behind the fix , I think he'll pull it off. The subject will be dead for another 40 years and more powers will be transferred useing the referendum result as cover. If the people are denied a vote by Labour or the lib/dumb arm of another coalition , people will get more and more anti European . It's all about timing , as Salmond showed you don't need to rush these things. The perfect storm for Nigel is 3rd in terms of popular votewith 2 dozen mp's , a Cameron led coalition and the Eussr in triple dip recession . However , Red Ed denying the people a say whilst crashing the economy Hollande style is a close second.

According to Andrew Neil the calculation was voted on and voted for by the Tories in 2013. Clearly the amount was unknown at the time, but the process that allows the EU to collect this amount, depending on the growth of your economy, is part of the rules. This suggests that either the Tories ****ed up and didn't understand the calculation , they thought our economy wouldn't grow as much as it did, or they didn't mind coughing up provided it was kept quiet. My opinion based on nothing whatsoever apart from not trusting pro EU wet Tories, is the third one.

Looking at my voting record the past 30 years, where I voted Tory, Lib and not voted. I wont vote Lib/Dem ever again, maybe if people like Laws and Jeremy Browne had control of the party I may have done. I wont vote Tory whislt the wet wing of the party are in charge. I thought Ted Heath the worst type of Tory, but this incompant lot are even worse. Maybe if David Davis leads the party I may do. There is no point in voting Labour in my area, not that I ever have. That leaves UKIP or not turning out. I'm more interested in the democratic deficit membership of the EU brings, an old fashioned "outer" if you like. I also find the portrayal of any anti EU person to be some sort of Little Englander or shire posh Tory offensive, there is nothing wrong with wanting out, it's just a difference of opinion. Tony Benn and Bob Crow were committed anti Europeans. I feel that the establishment lie and frighten people , and have a "we know best" attitude towards the EU which drives me away from them. They have also given away vast areas of our powers , and here's the key point, WITHOUT ASKING US. , Grammar Schools is another reason I would vote UKIP, although we have them here anyway. I think UKIP will also grasp the English question and push the Establishment to answer it once and for all. I also like Nigel and Patrick O Flynn, and some of the UKIP women impress me. Based on all that, I am leaning very heavily to UKIP, provided plums like Bloom and Helmer STFU. Clearly Nigel will not be PM, but that doesn't stop people voting for Salmond or Clegg. I would vote hoping that Nigel can influence some policy making , whether in coalition, or if not bringing the Establishment closer to what I believe in.

Just watched the start of "Daily Politics" on catch up. Andrew Neil stumped the leader of the Tory party in the EU. Evidently , this calculation was voted through the EU in 2013 and the Tories voted FOR the measure. The other fact he pointed out was that far from get a cut in the EU budget ( a "victory" that Dave keeps banging on about) the EU budget (excluding this £1.7 billion) . This ridiculous Tory had to sit there and try to claim that it was a victory because Dave managed to "slow the rate that it went up". What are these clowns on. The thing with the EU is that the Establishment don't defend it and stick up for what they believe . What they do is take the bits they don't think the public like and lie about them. Even the Lib/Dumbs are calling this unacceptable. When will somebody say "these are the rules, this is the price we pay to stay in the EU and I think it's worth it". Only in the EUSSR could France and Germany get a rebate, which that economic powerhouse Greece has to contribute to.

So fake outrage from "call me" Dave regarding the £1.7 billion EU payment , trying to claim that it's "unacceptable" and he "wont pay it". Trying to claim that it suddenly dropped on the doorstep of number 11 and nobody knew about it. What a load of ********, they knew all along , as Nigel said today "those are the rules". Daniel Hannann is claiming the only surprise was that somebody in the EU leaked it to damage Dave and the renegotiation trick he's trying to pull on the British electorate. Somebody said on TV today that as Dave claims he "works for the British people", perhaps he can tell us, his line Managers , when he became aware there would be a payment due and if he's going to pay ANY extra amount into the vast bottomless money pit. His fake outrage was very very carefully worded, "an estimate" , we are not paying "this bill". Watch Dave get a few quid knocked off the bill and claim a "victory". AS an aside, if the Government pledged to make £1.7billion of extra cuts , these UK U**** and the Owen Jones' of the world would be getting their sandals in a right twist.

Exactly , if anybody saw that loon Diane Abbott debating Gaunty on "This Week " they would have seen a typical establishment smear. Gaunty was arguing that low skilled immigrants from Eastern Europe had pushed down low wages and put too much pressure on some local services. He was at pains to praise past generations of immigrants and commented that his home town of Coventry had benefitted from "controlled" immigration . Abbott wasted no time in playing the race card and brought up that UKIP wanted to keep out Black people like her . Complete and utter nonsense . UKIP actually want people from her ethnic background to be treated the same as a white man from France or Germany . It is the establishment that treat people differently depending on where they come from . Abbott was embarrassing and that plum Portillio sat there nodding whist she lied and played the race card . Nigel showed Cleggy up for the liar he is on the European debates and he's going to do the same come the GE to the rest of the establishment.

Does this make labour a nasty party , a hypercritical party , or both?

Do not believe debates should be part of our political process .Ours is not a presidential system, you vote for a local MP and then the prime minister is the leader with most MP's . It is not a national vote but a series of local votes which combined together give us a national result. People bemoan the " Westminster bubble" and how politicians don't understand local people and then call for the Westminster leaders to debate each other in a studio near Westminster. Call me old fashioned by how about local candidates debating each other in town halls, community centres or even ale houses. Local people could get off their fat arses , pull themselves away from the TV and go and find out what their local candidates actually think.

He's doing some great trolling . latest one was along the lines of " Boring 0-0 spent all game talking about another south coast club to Alex Crook" .

Spot on. I would like to see more ex doctors , teachers, policemen , union officials and the like standing .

I was very impressed with Carswell, particularly his line that he believed in recall so much , that he recalled himself. A principled position and the people of Clacton rewarded him with a massive majority. I see that the Establishment parties are all going to " listen and learn lessons " from this. How many times have we heard this pony. In Westminster " listen and learn lessons" means carrying on as before. The country is divided politically in a way I've never known before. Tories can't win in the north and labour can't win in the south except in a few select and small areas. Both major parties appear to be conducting a core vote strategy and ignoring the rest. As for UKIP , I don't think this is the high point. Like the Nationalists in Scotland I think theyre here to stay. People like Patrick O Flynn, Diane James, Suzanne Evens and Paul Nuttall are starting to take the pressure off Nigel ,and Carswell will also help their profile. They need to quietly rid themselves of the Helmer's and Bloom's off the TV and promote the others mentioned. The lib/dumbs who've campaigned for " fair votes" for years will benefit from FPTP, but I'm pretty sure UKIP will get a higher share of the national vote come the GE. People seem to think that the " vote Nigel, get Ed" slogan will put people off voting for them, but I disagree. An Ed Milliband Government elected on a 35% mandate , propped up by the Lib/Dumbs which came 4th in the share of the national vote, is the best senario for UKIP. The Lib/Dumbs will have to have some sort of movement towards PR as a " red line" ( which will obvious help UKIP) , and the people will be denied a vote on Europe .Add to that deficit reduction and Labours economic incompetence and we could up up with Ed Hollande. Those conditions will certainly help UKIP in 2020.

What about 2018? I'm really worried about that summer . RK will be gone , what's the side going to look like then? FFS I hope the board have planned for it, no doubt the ****ing clowns will not have thought that far ahead. And don't get me started on 2019, we'll do well to finish top half that season. #meltdown

But he was never a " top footballer " . Personally , I wouldn't want him anywhere near our club.

The difference was Adebayor as opposed to Pelle, had they swapped sides I think we'd have won. Way too static and didn't really show much for the ball and The Skate had him in his pocket, we also gave Erickson too much room. Keeper seemed nervous as well. Just one to forget and try and win the next two. Atmosphere was shocking, I've been twice to WHL since we got back up and both times they've been awful. It's like theyre embarrassed to sing OWTS and don't really know what to do. MP got a bit of clog, but nowhere near what I expected. There was a bit early on, but it died out. I guess had we been winning he'd have received more.

What role does the EU play in this. Surely being in the single market means companies can minimise their tax liabilities .

I'm not advocating flat tax , just pointing out that in the strictest sense if the word it is the " fairest" system. My main gripe is people bemoaning tax cuts for the highest earners as " unfair" , and how people who want lower taxes are somehow sticking up for the wrong people. What seems to have been lost from the modern political debate is the argument that lower taxes will pay for themselves. That cutting taxes does not equate to cutting services. This was a debate that I thought had been won. I suspect deep down most politicians know it has, but play to the gallery . There was a reason labour kept top rates at 40%, they knew that's around the optimum figure to increase the take. Now its bash the rich and the Tories don't have the balls to make the case. I get the feeling that Red Ed would rather take 50% of a £1mil salary than 30% of 3 £1mil salaries . To him tax rates are symbolic, they are set to appease the socialist in him, not set to take in the most money. Taxes are too high for the poor, too high for the ordinary and too high for the rich.

Brenda telling the press that Liverpool are in " transition" .

Free school diners for rich kids, free TV licence for elderly rich people, winter fuel allowance for rich people, boob jobs on the nhs, child benefit for kids not in the uk, subsidised labour for multi national companies, some foreign aid, cut the number of sweaty MP's , the sovereign grant, quangos, public information stating the bleeding obvious. If you don't think we can save money you're deluded. This country takes enough of its citizens hard earned cash to look after the people who deserve it , and fund decent public services. The problem is two fold, one it's spread too thinly and two it's wasted by the clowns who take it from us. It's a strange kind of "fair" that means some people have to pay a higher % of their earnings than others. To do so , and then still get critisised and vilified for being "rich" is a joke.

I've never understood how some people paying a higher % of their wages is somehow ' fairer' than everybody paying the same % . Wayne Rooney is far more talented than me , therefore he is worth more to his employer than I am to mine. If I pay 40% of my wages and he pays 40% of his, he'll be paying a damn sight more than me into the national coffers .

Tim, only reason the minimum wage didn't cost jobs is because it is such a low level . Its a political con trick designed by labour to give the appearance of helping the poor. If you have a minimum wage, why on earth do the government top it up to ensure a living amount? Surely if you are saying that it is governments job to ensure people are paid a certain level, that level should enable them to live without being topped up. We don't have a minimum wage, we have a welfare to work programme . As for tax rates. Lowering the top rate clearly can bring more money in. The most graphic example is when Lawson lowered the taste from 82% to 60% and tax take went up. ( Remember labour were so against it, the uproar caused suspension of the house). Tories believe in the Laffer curve and labour did, hence 40% top rate until Browns political elephant trap . Funny that labour called for lowering VAT to bring in more money, but don't apply the same logic to Income Tax. Deep down they know its true, but politically they are dishonest and think there's votes in squeezing the rich until the pips squeak.

Party conferences are a complete and utter waste of time and money . There was a time when the labour one was worthwhile and a forum to formulate policy , but New Labour put and end to that. The Tory one has always been pretty much staged managed . Even the lib/dumbs one is a waste of time as the leadership just ignore the sandal wearers . My mate who is a journo claims that the events away from the main hall are interesting with some decent debates and thought provoking speakers , but that stuff never gets reported. If anybody thinks giving more public money to political parties is a good idea, the party conference season is a great reflection of how the self serving parties don't deserve another penny of our hard earned cash.

Just got in from the game and I see Nigel has ****ed on Dave's chips again. Another defector and rumours on the internet that there's going to be another one on the eve of Dave's conference speech.

Spot on . Some of the comments from our supporters were clearly nonsense. Why do people feel everybody has some sort of agenda is beyond me. We have it with Lawro every time he predicts a loss or a journo writes something negative about us. As Samuels says , why on earth would he have anything against saints. He's just giving his opinion.**** me, we had supporters on here posting much more negative stuff than any journo would ever write. Most neutrals seem pleased we've started so well, even the ones who thought we would struggle appear to be pleasantly surprised.

The problem with this game is that even the best teams struggle to win 6 in a row. That is really going some, unless you're a top top team .

The Treaty of Rome set out a path to "ever closer union" . For the Europeans it has always been more than an economic community , but the British people have never bought into that and never will. We were lied to in the 70's and we're being set up again. The fundamental reforms most British people would want are directly against some of the treasured principles of the EUSSR , free movement of people for one. The EU will never be a economic bloc again, that ship has sailed. As the establishment proved to the sweatys , they will promise anything , frighten anyone and lie to win a referendum . They will use a "stay in" vote in any EU referendum as the green light for ever deeper union and the British people will have another 40 years of treaty's and sovereignty handed to Brussels .