Minty

Exactly my point. Just put far more succinctly!

Of course, the prrof of the pudding etc, etc. But I think we can cut these guys a bit of slack, seeing as they've delivered on everything else they've so far talked about. I agree entirely with o_b that fans are all too often taken in by words which are not backed up by actions, and understand that this waryness has come from years of broken promises or empty words from previous regimes, and supposed 'saviours' like Wilde. We should not taint the new owner and his staff with the same doubt that we had in the past as it is not their fault that we as a fan base have come to be this way. We should try and rise above the 'once_bitterne(!), twice shy' mentality that we've developed, and give the new regime the benefit of the doubt because they have duly delivered everything expected of them so far. So yes, these are only words, and many fans are taken in easily, but having demonstrated a level of commitment to the club not seen in decades, I think ML and NC and co should have earnt some trust from us to deliver on this if they say they are going to.

Stop it.

Wow, what a fun evening you all had last night correcting each others' posts! But back to the thread... is Mack Rill inferring that Delldays is firing blanks?!

Agreed FC... I think I've written someone previously that many of these issues are interlinked... climate change (however it is changed), food security, fuel resources, population, biodiversity, national security, economies... all affect or are affected by each other, and ALL need to be looked at with a view to developing sustainable solutions that can withstand the test of time, climate change, and the running out of resources. Some are more fundamental than others however, namely food, fuel and population... and food and fuel are heavily reliant on, or contribute heavily to, the climate and biodiversity. So while the economy and national security may appear more fundamental in the short term, especially to government and industry leaders it seems, and we are constantly told how the economy and economic growth must be maintained etc, in the longer term, it is food, fuel and population that will shape the future, and the sooner that is realised the better IMO.

Is this where I ask George to answer my questions again...? Nah. I'll just quote George Eliot instead: "The scornful nostril and the high head gather not the odors that lie on the track of truth."

There are copied of Nazi war plans in a war museum in London... does that make the British owner Hitler?!

HH admitted afterwards that it wasn't a penalty.

I've actually got a copy of the original architects plans at home. There may have been some changed to the stadium since they were done but they're quite interesting, I'll dig them out and have a look when I get 5 minutes.

A bit unfair. It's a redevelopment of existing buildings on private land, shielded from the road, and no part of it will be any more visible from the road than the present buildings are, so even individuals who are concerned about inappropriate development (like myself) should have no issues with this. I like it, from a general point of view, as well as as a Saints fan.

A reply from Gary Chalk, via David Bull, via Saintslist, about whether being unbeaten in 10 away from home is a record: No pressure there then... lol!

From the Martin Lewis / Money Saving Expert stable comes: Tunechecker Which tells you the cheapest place to buy MP3 downloads for current charrt albums and singles. Looks quite useful at first glance, I hadn't even heard of a couple of the sites.

Thanks for your honest thoughts benjii. I'm interested in finding out more about your point of view because there are a large amount of people with similar views. I honestly don't know how the motivation to save future generations comes about in any one individual. I guess it comes down to selfishness. I don't mean that in a critical way, because human's are naturally selfish, and as Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs shows, our first natural instinct is for our own personal survival, and other considerations come later. Someone once said to me that if you have kids, it comes naturally, but I don't have kids, and I *do* believe it is important to do... although that is partly because I probably will have kids one day and personally feel it is selfish to use the planet as I see fit now, to the detriment of their future. That's my personal belief and if I'm being completely honest I do struggle to understand how people can have no thoughts for the future, when it involves their children or other people that they supposedly care about. If my Grandparents or Great Grandparents acted in such a way, I might not even exist... I have to take issue with the statenent that 'no one actually gives a **** long-term'... I think the Wave demonstration in London tomorrow will demonstrate otherwise, amongst many other things. Plenty of people care, but not everyone either knows what to do about it, or feels able to do anything about it, partly because of the way things are communicated from governments or other organisations. But make no mistake, with the likes of Transition town movements, Greening campaigns, Friends of the Earth, and a host of people in other organisations, there are plenty who do care. I'm genuinely interested to know why you think no change is possible or likely. You may well be right, and I certainly agree that political will is required, and that it seems that agreement and action are currently a long way off because of the posturing and arguing, but I think to write it off completely is wrong. Local initiatives are proving far more productive and have made demonstrable differences in some areas. Global intitiatives are needed, but we drive the supply and demand for those global industries, so we can make a difference, if we want to. Again, I agree that new technologies have a major part to play, but in actual fact a lot of it comes back to your first line which you agree with, that it is down to sensible resource usage in the first place. One thing that does annoy me is that many people, and media outlets, and others, portray Climate Change as the main issue, but it is linked so closely with resource depletion, food security, biodiversity and population that it is impossible IMO to seperate the issues. That, understandably, is where many people think 'this is too big for me' and back away, which I completely understand. You might be right, and there may be nothing we can do, but it is down to everyone's personal conscience to decide what they should do. Hope you don't mind answering those points, I am genuinely interested in finding out why people hold these opinions.

As I said above, and have said several times, I accept that I (nor anyone else) can never know for certain the human influence on the change in climate, but whilst my personal opinion is obviously evident on this thread, how can you be so arrogantly certain that yours is correct and that it is a 'lie'? Does the 'Precautionary principle' mean anything to you?

Fair enough, but it would be nice if our views were respected, instead of being called 'Adrian Moles', 'loonie lefties' etc, which, whilst not directly deregatory, are clearly intended as a put down to those who dare differ from the name-callers point of view. Which is why I'd like to echo Bexy's last point... why do Dune and St G feel the need to belittle others' points of view all the time? Everyone on this thread who supports the belief that Climate Change has been influenced by man, accepts that we can never know for certain, and is willing to debate, whilst these two seem unable to debate and only want to shout us down.

I just want him to answer my question... the fact he won't says it all for me.

I don't see much wrong with it either. The key point is that many of us realise that sacrifices need to be made and would support such measures, whilst others want to continue their selfish, resource-intensive, and unsustainable lifestyles. So George, any chance of some answers to my original question, and Badgers ACCCE-related post? Or will you continue to ignore them?

That doesn't actually *prove* anything and doesn't necessarily mean they have done anything wrong. Of course it's easy to make that jump for many people because it fits in with their agenda. Those without an agenda, like myself, would probably agree that it is silly that they did not keep the raw data, and want to know more about this situation, but without jumping to conclusions. Science is coming second to the desire of selfish groups who simply want to be proven right, or to prove others wrong, and enjoy gloating about it if and when possible. If it could be proven irrefutably that current Climate Change was predominantly man-made, the last thing I'd want to do would be to gloat about it... quite sad really. If it was the other way around, I have no doubt that George would be taking huge delight in belittling others for daring to have an alternative view, however well-intentioned it is. BTW George, any comment on the ACCCE case above, that you've conveniently ignored? Edit - Interesting response from Badger, and not at all surprising. Heard of the CEI George?

Rotherham would be a tough test, they are in good form in the league and playing confidently. Luton were well up for it yesterday, got a good draw, and did to Rotherham, what they might potentially do to us if they get the job done. Should progress, but not a tie to be taken for granted by any means.

I have a concern that we haven't kept a clean sheet. I hope we can work on it and keep more clean sheets. But put into perspective, whilst we score more at the other end, the NET result, is entirely positive.

I shut everything else down and it certainly helped. Just loaded Firefox back up to post this, and I'm shutting it down again! Any program that may access the net for anything else might just slow it down that little bit more, so close messenger, email client, browser, anything you can, and see how it goes.

Click on a tvants link on this page: http://www.myp2p.eu/broadcast.php?matchid=57343&part=sports Mine is breaking up quite a bit now, not sure how reliable it'll be, but still, worth a go.

Google it, it's not difficult to find!

I got it on the top tvants link... first time i've tried this. Not bad, all things considered...!