sadoldgit

If you get grief from one poster and want to give it back that is your choice. It doesn’t give you the right to hurl childish insults to everyone else who doesn’t agree to you. It is not hypocrisy and cant. If you behave like an arse you have to expect to get called on it.

I guess not. Just read a report about the doorstep abuse that candidates of all parties have received in this election. Aren’t we supposed to be a tolerant country. Seems that we are getting nastier by the day. Did you see Johnson yesterday? When caught out looking at his phone his reply was well say something interesting. Little wonder that basic decency goes out of the window when you have people like him and Trump behaving the way they do. Wes seems to be taking his lead from Boris.

Lol. How do you know? That is just your projection as it is what you do. If I had been on the winning side I would have been quietly relieved and got on with life. This isn’t a game. This is about our future and our children’s future. My children all want to remain in the EU. They are gutted over the result and they are gutted that we will 5 more years of Johnson. Still, so long as you are happy...

If there is one thing worse than a bad loser it’s a bad winner. Give it a rest Wes.

It has started already. Keir Starmer has not confirmed that he is standing for leader of the Labour Party yet but already the ever odious Sun has started to smear him. Apparently now it is enough to say that you had working class parents and then going to university and becoming a QC. What a crime.

Good job Neil Shipperley wasn’t helping him with the gardening!

Quiet day Wes?

Quite right. It comes to something when our racists can’t even tell someone to go back to the right country!

He was always on the TV in the 60’s and 70’s. Very versatile entertainer. I was stood next to him for a while at The Who gig at The Valley many years ago. 81 so a pretty good innings. RIP Kenny.

“Played” is the perfect word Duckie. We have all been “played.”

Because you have to have mountains of money and a large boat to be a happy and fulfilled human being? No wonder so many of us are bitter and twisted.

You wouldn’t have a good word to say about Clegg if he had sided with Labour. And for someone whose party has been led by political pygmies Cameron, May and Johnson and several others before, your criticism is a bit hollow.

I would have said Jo Swinson but in reality I think Clegg did for the LibDems when he allowed the Tories to run the country. That was it for me and, I suspect, many others. There was an interesting a article in The Guardian the other day by Simon Jenkins who was basically saying that the LibDems have had it and should call it a day. Hard to argue with that given their present position in the current electoral system. He suggests that they should join forces with Labour to provide a modern centrist party. To me this basic plan has a lot of merit, but a lot depends on the direction of Labour under a new leader. If they reign in some of their far left leanings but resist the urge to become New Labour 2 they might be able to keep the support of the younger more radical followers whilst winning back the disaffected older voters. Whether they can find enough common ground with the LibDems remains to be seen, but the LibDems have made their position pretty much redundant. Thoughts?

Whilst we are talking about democracy, how democratic was it for Johnson to throw a bunch of democratically elected MPs out of their own party?

You are right, we didn’t vote to join. In 1975 we had a democratic vote to stay in. A democratic vote.

You might have a low opinion of Liberals Wes but constantly calling them dumb isn’t helpful. As for not being democratic, isn’t part of the process giving a voice to what you believe in? If they had of won a working majority on the main point of their manifesto they would have won the democratic right to stop Brexit. We had a vote to join the EU years ago, is it undemocratic to overturn that vote now? Farage made it perfectly clear that he would have continued the fight to leave if the vote had been reversed. You and the other Brexiteers on here would be posting everyday calling for another vote. There is no right or wrong on this issue but both sides of the argument clearly feel very strongly about what they think is best for the country and those feelings and beliefs aren’t going to vanish overnight. Whilst there was still hope to stop it or to at least go for a second referendum, you can’t blame remainers for fighting their corner. If the situation was reversed I would expect you would feel the same. Still, it is done now and you have won the war. Perhaps we can re-engage in the argument in 20 years time when another generation try to rejoin the EU?

You are probably right Euro! Although it would be a very boring world if we all agreed about everything. I’d just settle for proportional representation right now

What’s your definition of a “lefty” then Wes?

Alkmaar beat Ajax 1-0. Joint top of the league.

Clasie lines up at centre half against Ajax?? Still 0-0.

The other teams aren’t doing us any favours. It is going to be a tough second half of the season if we can’t rely on the teams above us to roll over.

Just reflecting on the state of British politics in my lifetime. I was 18 in 1972 and voted Tory up until Thatcher’s 2nd term. My parents always voted Tory and as I just assumed they knew best. I was also put off Labour by those nasty union types like Arthur Scargill. In the 80’s I realised what a divisive and unpleasant person Thatcher was and that was the end of the road for me and the Tories. The Liberals seemed to have the same set of values so they had my vote up until the point that Clegg sold their soul to the Tories. Since Brexit I seemed to have become radicalised to the point where I spend far too much time with politics on a football forum. I also seem to have embraced socialism, something I would never have believed in my 20’s. The point of my ramble is this. I now live in a country where child poverty is at an all time high and is growing. I spend time in Brighton to see my kids and the numbers of homeless on the streets is shocking. When I go to the supermarket there is a big container by the door to put food in for the food banks. The local arable fields are being concreted over to make way for thousands of new homes (not affordable for those at the bottom of the ladder) whilst brownfield sites lay undeveloped. I can’t get a doctor’s appointment for 2 to 3 weeks in advance. You can’t pick up a local paper without seeing the news of another stabbing or rape. The M20 has a 20+ lorry parking section on it ready for Brexit. The local hospital is at breaking point yet they are planning to build a massive new market town a few miles from it with no provision for an extension to the hospital. Our A&E which is 5 miles away in Ashford will be moving 20 miles away to Canterbury. I have already chronicled my wife’s problems with Universal Credit. A pint of beer costs £4.00. I don’t even think about going to football anymore as I was priced out of that years ago (yet used to go to Selhurst Park with my mates as a kid on my pocket money). I can’t see how my kids are ever going to afford to get on the housing ladder. All three are already saddled with debt thanks to the student’s loans. I worked in an environment for 8 years where resources were constantly cut yet targets remained the same. All of this happened under the watch of the Tory Party. I have no problem with the creation of wealth, but surely it is common sense that we use that wealth to look after everyone in our society? The gap is widening between the have and the have nots. It will widen still further when the full effects of Brexit kick in. People who work to make a fairer society for all of us get ridiculed in the right wing press, owned by billionaires with an vested interest in keeping the status quo. Posters on here get called pejorative names if they dare support an opposing view to the enforced austerity of the last decade. Something needs to change and that change must start with a voting system that gives a proportional voice in parliament to everyone who casts a vote. The current system does not work for you unless you are the party who wins and you voted for that party. We hear a lot about the will of the people, but it is only the will of some of the people. The losers get to put and and shut up and their opinions no longer count. We need all voices to be heard, yes that of Farage as much as I dislike his politics and we need to sort out an electoral system where everyone who casts a vote feels that vote has not been wasted. No one should have to vote tactically. You should vote for who you want, not to get rid of someone you don’t want. Perhaps then we feel that we are actually all in it together.

It isn’t the sales that is the problem, it has been the replacements.

And yet you don’t complain when a poster in here calls the centre party supporter LibDums?