sadoldgit

Here we go again though VG. You say that you hear Muslim adolescents saying the only good Jew is a dead Jew but that comment isn't the sole preserve of Muslims is it? There are anti-Semites everywhere and from all different backgrounds. You also say that many are discriminated against and then mention that many behave as victims of society, it would seem with some justification then. You mention the concerns that people have about some Muslims and, of course, they are justified. But out of 1.8 billion Muslims, or whatever the current number is, do you really believe that the vast majority support ISIS, are homophobic, want all Jews dead etc. You say that you think immigration should be stopped. Perhaps, if more of these immigrants come to live in Western societies they would, in time, become more liberal and grow to see their religion in a different way? I'll also ask a question. why should the onus just be on immigrants to assimilate into a new society and why should they change their habits just to fit it? Tolerance is a two way thing. In an ideal world we should try and meet halfway, but that isn't always possible. Perhaps we should stop being so sensitive about those who want to wear a burqa for example. Immigration has been going on from the beginning of time, for better or worse. The world is one big melting pot, and, mostly, all the better for it. Turning Muslims into the lepers of the world isn't the answer, just as it wasn't with the Jews in the 30s and 40s. Where it isn't working, we all need to work harder to improve the situation, not just the Muslims.

My Week As A Muslim - Best quote from Katie Freeman. "They are normal people like me." Back to hypo. Well done, you have discovered a new word. Conflate. Your mistake was to over use it though. Another trap you have fallen into (yet again) is the old I know people who are Muslims and you don't therefore your opinion somehow is more valid. I'll say again. if you don't know any Saints players does that invalidate your view of the team and club? You tell us that your wife isn't a practicing Muslim, so not a Muslim then. Early on in this thread there were many attacks on non extreme Muslims and you let them go. I think I recall at one point you saying that there weren't any racists on this thread. At least we have put that one to bed. You supported that bastion of decency Katie Hopkins when she came out and said "normal" Muslims should be doing more to distance themselves from the extremists and when I supported them you were all over me like a rash. As someone who loves Muslims, you have not done a very good job of supporting those you say you love. Having been lumped in with Sour Mash you are now making an effort to disassociate yourself from him. It is a shame you didn't do that at the beginning. But then coming out and saying that you agree with me doesn't work with you does it. You always have to take an opposing position no matter what we debate. Here is another new C word for you. Contrary.

You raise valid points VG and I agree with you that that kind of behaviour is not acceptable. I did qualify my position by saying that I don't have a problem with those who live in harmony with others and clearly there are those who do not. It isn't just the preserve of some Muslims though. You will find levels of anti social behaviour where ever you go in the world. There are some people in every society that behave in ways that are abhorrent to decent, civilised people. Sadly for their religion, there are Muslims who give their beliefs a bad name but is that down to Islam or just the fact that even if they weren't Muslims they have a tendency to behave like arseholes? The issue for me is that humans are still basically tribal in nature and the problems we face are down to the need we feel to group ourselves together against other groups - be they people of a different religion, supporting a different football team, a different political party, speaking a different language etc etc. You see it on here all the time - the so called happy clappers against the bed wetters! Islam is not the problem per se. Human beings are.

If you had read my post correctly (and previous posts) you would know that your view of your wife's position on Islam is not the only reason that I believe you have a problem with Muslims. I have based my opinion on your numerous posts on this thread and the way in which you have let certain things slide whilst attacking those who have supported non-extremist Muslims. Your "thankfully" comment just confirmed what I already thought. Oh, and by the way. If you love someone enough to marry them, why would it be an issue whether they practised any religion or not? I agree that Islamophobia isn't an ideal word. It is, however, the only one we have to describe those with a dislike or hatred of Muslims, so it will have to do.

I don't have a problem with those who want to follow any religion so long as they are law abiding and peaceful. I don't see any problem with Islam in Europe just as I don't see any problem with Christianity. There are conflicts in both religions with modern day liberalism but there have been conflicts with religious dogma going back centuries so I cant see that changing. The issue we face at the moment is the divide between those who are using Islam to forward their own agenda and those who just want to get on with their lives peacefully. The rising level of hate crime and some of the views posted on chat forums on the Internet show just how intolerance festers and grows where there are them and us cultures. As a non religious person I struggle with any concept of faith, but I don't think that anyone has the right to tell someone else how to think and what to believe if they are not doing any harm and until the extremists on all sides stop fuelling the fire, there will be no harmonious co-existence. That is what irritates me so much on this thread. The constant nit picking at those who are different just serves to further the cause of those who thrive on division and hatred. Decrying terrorist activities or homophobia when linked to a religion is one thing, damning all those who follow that religion peacefully and respectfully of others another. The problems in Europe or Western civilisation aren't down to Muslim or immigrants. They are down to people who cannot live lawfully and peacefully together. These people come in all shapes, sizes, colours and backgrounds yet certain people fixate on one kind and ignore the wider issues.

Yes you do. You don't remember saying thankfully your wife wasn't a practicing Muslim? Clearly, if you didn't have a problem with Muslims it wouldn't have been an issue. You also bang on about how they are not doing enough to distance themselves from terrorists (despite the terrorist acts having nothing to do with them). You have similar views to Sour Mash, albeit less extreme. If you cant see that (go back and read your own posts here) then you are the foolish one. I asked you several times why you weren't calling him on his Islamophobic posts earlier in this thread and it soon became apparent that you shared many of his views. You chose to attack those who were supporting the non extreme Muslims, so lets not pretend that you don't have anything against them.

Deflection? You have an issue with Muslims. My point is that the issue is wider than one religious group. Mankind is the problem, not Muslims. This is not deflection. It is common sense. People like you and Sour Mash seem to think that the problems will all go away if Muslims did not exist. No they wouldn't. People will continue to find reasons to murder, rape and steal from each other. By banging on about one specific group you completely miss the point. No one is trying to pretend that there isn't an issue with terrorists or some interpretations of this religion, but most people understand that the problem is more widespread than issues with one religion. You focus on the actions of a minority of one type of people whist the rest carry out atrocities on a daily basis that don't seem to bother you in the least. So much so that when issues in our own society are brought to your attention you turn it into a joke. Simply put, we treat each other far worse on a daily basis than extreme Muslims do. Deflection to you because all you are interested in, like Sour Mash, is bashing all Muslims.

How do you know he won’t? He has only been here a short while.

Nope. not at all. Why would you say that? I'm not frightened of change. I just don't believe that you should change everything every 5 minutes if it doesn't work at that particular time. You on the other hand seem to have no time for anyone at management level at the club. Frightened of stability?

Oh dear Whelk. You were quick to give me grief about mentioning the Nazis on the terrorism thread yet you manage to shoe horn a mention about them in a thread where someone is going through a mid life crisis in his twenties! As our American friends would say, "Way to go."

Why not? There are people who employ manager after manager who fail and remain in their jobs. If Reed employed MP to manage in a certain way and he doesn't, is that Reed's fault or MPs fault? Do you really think that Reed wanted to continue in the same way as with Puel? If so why sack him? We don't know what goes on behind the scenes but if this continues and it wasn't what Reed signed up for, you would expect him to have a long talk with MP but you cant blame Reed if MP isn't doing what was expected of him.

He may or may not turn out to be a decent manager for us, but to talk about sacking him after a couple of months is beyond ridiculous. We are a mid table team and we are mid table. There is a lot wrong with football in this day and age, not least the instant gratification demanded by some supporters.

We should change managers every 10 games and Batman and hypochondriac should take turns in choosing the new managers.

Refuted by the likes of you who somehow have come to believe that all Muslims are responsible for the minority who commit these acts.

The population of Winchester are not all Muslims and do not support terrorism so it is a moot point. As for the rest, you know exactly the point I am making but in the same blinkered way that xenophobes think, you tar everyone with the same brush. I call pony on you tired 1970s bull****.

Spread the population of Winchester around the world and you get an idea of what that means. The main thing is that 96% of Muslims do not support the terrorists. The vast majority of Muslims in your figures clearly want a normal peaceful life and behave like the rest of us. But that doesn't work for those who think that there is a problem with Muslims per se. Those who have a problem with diversity clearly no nothing of history and just how diverse most of the civilisations on this planet are.

Katie Hopkins and some anti Muslims on this thread think that non terrorist Muslims are not doing enough to distance themselves from the terrorists. I am not sure what more they can do, but certainly going on a protest march is something.

My point is simple. I am not trying to counter the outrage, I am asking the question why some people think it is worse if a Muslim commits a similar crime. None of the people kicking off on a regular basis here shows any sign of being bothered by their own kind killing or raping. You don’t see Batman scouring the papers for reports of non Muslim crimes. Sour Mash doesn’t rail against the countless sexual assaults carried out every week but if it happens to be a bunch of Muslims he is all over it. Where are the threads on the dreadful crimes carried out on a regular basis by non Muslims? Why does it only become an issue worth debating if it involves a Muslim or an immigrant? Perhaps you might like to address that point instead of taking cheep shots at me? You are more likely to be killed by a non Muslim than you are a Muslim terrorist yet some here would ban them from coming here and would kick out those who are here. Perhaps you should use your time in addressing their issues? These issues are not just about Muslims, they are about the way the whole of mankind behaves. It is not worse if a crime is committed by someone of a different background. Or do you disagree?

Over 10,000 people on Muslim peace march in central London yesterday yet no mention from resident Muslim media watch reporter Batman? How strange.

Change the record mate

Only 66. Very sad news. Hugely underrated. RIP

Good to see you have moved on slightly of your gone by Christmas mantra.

To those who took the **** out of my comments about the trouble in Maidstone. A friend of a friend was killed there on Friday night. He was attacked outside McDonalds at 10:30 by a 15, 16, 17 and 18 year old. His name was Wayne Chester. But it’s ok, none of the attackers were Muslims.

So you wont remember the 3 day week and the shambles under Heath either then? Did your father tell you about that too? The country was in a total shambles and neither party came out with any credit. You might want to broaden your idea of "those type of people."