sadoldgit

What is your opinion about the battle bus with the slogan about funding the NHS with the money saved from the EU on the side? As whoppers go, that one was a corker. Fell free to enlighten us as to what lies the Remain side told that were any where near that one. Let's park the years of anti EU propaganda spread by The Mail and The Sun and the b/s about immigration. As for hypo and his problem with the "middle class" remainers, you do realise that without their votes you would be governed by the very "dangerous" socialists you seem to have such a big problem with? In a democracy all votes are supposed to be equal. That means Tommy Robinson's vote is worth the same as the middle class supporters of Remain that you struggle with. The Brexiteers are cra pping themselves because they realise that more and more people can see they were feed b/s by the leave campaign and more and more people are changing their minds.

Clearly those choosing to protest about Brexit are a diverse bunch, but what difference does it make if they happened to be all middle class and white. Do their opinions count for less than those of a more diverse background? It seems that along with Muslims, we have found another group of people that hypo disapproves of. You can see why Tommy Robinson appeals to him so much. Strangely enough, of the few people that I know well who are strong Brexit supporters, most of them are white, middle class and would look out of place on that coach. Still, this being Britain, the only people we take seriously when protesting are those who use violence as a means to an end - and they ted not to be decent, law abiding people.

Didn’t Einstein say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? The people we elected to represent us have voted twice, with a large majority, to reject this deal. Why should they be expected to vote on the same deal again? We clearly need to find another way forward. If May cannot or will not contemplate the obvious we need a new PM who can. For those bemoaning the lack of democracy, what does it say about democracy if MPs have to keep going through the same process until they are worn down to the point they say yes? This deal is dead and should be buried, the PM along with it.

This lady needs to resign. Today preferably.

The least personal publicity these scumbags get the better. He will soon just become another nameless nutter who will rot in jail having achieved nothing other causing meaningless heartache.

Just wondering... are the people who kick off about those who want a second referendum the same ones who are now complaining because Bercow will not allow May to keep bringing her Brexit plan back unchanged until MPs accept it? Double standards?

Gone by Christmas? You don’t have to look very far to find some gems on here do you?

Don’t you mean kicking lumps out of people? Don’t you remember Pele getting kicked out of the World Cup? Thankfully that doesn’t happen so much now.

Which ever way you voted surely the last two years have demonstrated a) what a crap political system we have b) what a cr ap bunch of politicians we have and c) how cr ap we must look to the rest of the world looking at the televised sessions of Parliament, especially when dealing with Brexit.

Quite right. The Australian PM described him as an “extremist right-wing violent terrorist.” Let’s not water this down.

I know someone who was a senior officer in military intelligence stationed in Belfast when this happened. He told me that they used to carry little yellow cards on which were printed their Rules of Engagement. These often changed making life difficult for the troops. On one occasion the rules actually stated that you could only fire at someone if they had fired at you. So if you saw someone aiming at another soldier you couldn’t fire on him! I asked him what he thought of the murder charge. He said that he thought that it was fair enough if there was evidence to suggest that soldier F had killed innocent people. He also said he felt very uneasy about the shootings at the time. I also asked him about what he thought of the term “Troubles” used to describe the situation in NI. He said it was just a media term. He said that war was too strong a term for it but that the army saw it and treated it as a full scale insurrection. When I asked him about the political expediency that was and is being used with convicted and non convicted terrorists he was less than complimentary to many former PMs. If soldier F is found guilty and sentenced to a prison term it will make it even harder to accept the pardoning of convicted IRA murders but if innocent people were deliberately targeted and shot dead then someone has to be held to account. Just how innocent you are if you are lobbing bricks and Molotov cocktails and are aware that the IRA are using your disturbance as an opportunity to fire on the troops is another question.

I didnt actually say a threat to our security, but that’s hypo for you.

You really don’t get it do you? If two Afro-Americans call each other by the n word as a greeting, who exactly are they offending? Do you really believe that people get upset because some Spurs fans identify as Yiddish? If you asked a Pakistani where he was from and he said he was a Paki would it offend you? It is not the word, it is the context in which the word is used.

I agree that they should all go through a judicial process, where ever that may be. I have never said that this person is innocent victim but neither do we have any hard evidence that she was a combatant. Some people might think that just being Muslim makes you automatically guilty of a major crime in these circumstances. She claims to have been nothing more than a housewife. If true is that a crime? If there is more to that it will be discovered through official channels and she will be dealt with through those channels. It would appear that some people, and mostly of a far right persuasion, cannot see a difference between hardened religious extremists and young gullible people who get sucked in and end up well out of their depth. Let’s not pretend that a 15 year old who liked the idea of going to Syria because she liked the idea of raising a family there because the video looked nice and “they look after you” was some kind of hardened Jihadist when she went. Frankly I would be a lot more concerned about her husband. Still, the likes of Begum are a blessing to the Yaxley-Lennon brigade.

People can call themselves what they like no matter whether you or I like it or think it is ok. I would assume that they were using the term as an insult. If they called themselves the Bradford or Brighton army and opposing fans called them Pakis or Faggots then that would be seen as hateful. It really isn’t that difficult to draw a distinction. As for the difference between the Jewish connection between Tottenham and Arsenal, Tottenham’s link with the Jewish community in North London has been much more marked over the years including having had 3 Jewish chairmen in recent years. The argument that opposing fans only make anti-Semitic chants because Spurs fans call themselves the Yid Army doesn’t wash. Do Manchester United call themselves the Plane Crash Army? Even if they did, for the reasons stated it is all about context.

I often wonderful if you are being deliberately obtuse just for the sake of an argument Jeff? Go back and read my post again. Where do I mention rape? For the sake of clarity, my point is that suseptical people are often targeted by people for their own nefarious purposes. As I said, there is a strong suggestion that this person was groomed from an early age. Certainly her family did not encourage her to go to Syria. It is a rational move for a child who is barely a teenager to head off to a war zone to raise a family? If it is the case that she was targeted and groomed from an early age, is it right to hold her wholly responsible for her actions? And before you choose to misinterpret me again, I am not suggesting that she does not face the justice system should she ever return to the UK. All people are liable to the same system no matter what their religious background or crime, don’t you agree? Which makes it all the more strange that we have stripped mothers and supposed non combatants of their UK citizenship but let men and possible terrorists back in.

It’s all about context though. I doesn’t really matter that only about 5% of them are actually Jewish. They are identifying with the term, not using it as a racial insult. In the same way that two people of colour (or whatever the pc term is now) call each other by the n word. They are not using it as a hateful slur. If you wanted to prosecute the Spurs supporters for a “hate crime” when chanting “Yid army” you would have to prove that they are using it as an insult whereas they clearly aren’t. Any references to gassing or Hitler are clearly meant as an insult and are dealt with differently because of the different context. To say that Spurs supporters bring this upon themselves isn’t the point. Calling themselves by a name that identifies with a certain religion does not then give others the right to abuse them using racial hate terms. We can talk about plane crashes all day long without offending anyone but as we know, there is a certain plane crash which is used as an insult towards Manchester United and in that context falls into the hate crime category. I don’t know if there is any truth in the rumour on the terraces that Victoria Beckham enjoys a spot of an al, but the context in which it is used is not a celebration of a celebrity’s sexual preference, it is meant as an insult and a wind up. There are a number of interesting articles about the Tottenham dilemma about their fans singing “Yid Army” and they do struggle because the fans are obviously not insulting themselves. This is not about what words mean, it is about how they are used.

That’s the point though John. They can do it because they are using it in a different way. I have some gay friends who are quite happy to call each other by terms that are clearly homophobic if used by straight people against them. Their argument is that they are being ironic and are turning negatives into positives. By calling themselves the Yid Army Spurs fans are taking ownership of the name on their own terms. The N word is used as a sign of brotherhood when used between each other whereas a white person using that term can only do so from a racist perspective because they don’t have the same background.

Her murder cult? You make her sound like Pol Pot. Do we know that she was involved in violent acts. If it is true that she was no more than a housewife is that now a criminal offence? As for being responsible for her actions, of course she is. But most people understand that at 15 you often don’t make the best decisions and our society and legal system make provision for that. This place kicked off about the grooming gangs but I don’t remember those people blaming the girls for there part in the activities. There is a suggestion that Begum and her friends had been groomed from an early age. If you have seen any of the interviews she comes across as very gullible and suseptical. I don’t see her as a danger to society, more as a danger to herself. Within a few days of arriving she was looking for a husband and married someone she barely knew. I don’t know about you but I wouldn’t say that any of her decisions were those of a mature, rational person.

Why should football be exempt to standards of behaviour not tolerated elsewhere. Would the n word would be acceptable when directed towards players just because it is football? Of course not. There is a difference to chanting and basic racial abuse.

The Spurs fans can call themselves what they like without expecting anti-Semitic abuse. It’s like saying that Jews brought the holocaust on themselves for being Jewish. Sadly there are still some buckle draggers who think it is ok to make reference to gassing or Hitler. On the upside fewer people are prepared to accept this behaviour and these morons are being called out. Name and shame these morons. Let’s make it clear that these actions are not acceptable in today’s society.

What a massive result that was! Adrian Durham on Talksport predicted 2-1 yesterday. I hope he had a few bob on it.

Shamima Begum

Sadly it appears that whilst Javid has been busy sucking up to the far right, the opportunity to save an innocent child’s life has been lost. Stamina Begum’s three week old baby as apparantly died of pneumonia. By his own admission the child was a British subject but he was quiet happy to leave the baby to suffer in a miserable environment where other children are dying every day. Perhaps the only positive to come out of this sorry tale is that it might deter more young girls from following in Begum’s footsteps but no matter of what you think of this misguided young women, at just 19 years old she has already had to pay a very high price for her life choices.