sadoldgit

Once again you make a stupid claim that not having a Muslim as a friend means I cannot have an opinion about Islam or terrorism. How old are you? 6? I am not morally superior that is another figment of your imagination. Nor am I safe in any ivory tower - another of your strange views. I am disappointed that there don't appear to be any Muslims on this site or if they are, they are not inclined to come on and support Islam. As that is the case other posters have had to do so on their behalf. Sadly a number of you seem to think that all Muslims are responsible for the actions of a murderous minority. They are not. Nor more than you, Sour Mash or Batman are. Oh, and I had a very long chat with a former Colonel in the British Military Intelligence last night. He has served in Northern Ireland, Iraq, America and Hong Kong as is hugely experience in dealing with terrorism. His exacts words were "you never beat terrorism with the military, you always end up having to talk with them." I know, as the resident internet football forum expert on dealing with terrorists you will find this hard to swallow, but I think I would listen to him before I would listen to someone with multiple sign-ons on a footie forum (eh Sweercorn? xx).

So no list of apologists then? And just because in your world someone who says this has nothing to do with peaceful Muslims seems to be some kind of apology for the deluded murderers, it doesn't make it so. Not once I have I made any attempt to apologise for these crimes. As for your view on Muslims. Did you or did you not say thank goodness that your wife isn't a practising Muslim? That would seem to indicate that you wouldn't have been comfortable with her if she was a practising Muslim would it not? Then there are the constant attacks on my posts. All I am saying is that normal Muslims are no more responsible for these murders and attacks than the rest of us but you seem to jump down my throat whenever I make that point. You constantly seek out my posts and have a dig but you leave Sour Mash alone. Why is that? Because quite clearly you share his opinions. You are the joke. So much so that you keep clear of another website because you know you will get ripped apart there as usual. Why did you jump to the support of Katie Hopkins when I raised her point about Muslims not doing enough? You were straight in on her side. Not one of us knows how much information Muslims pass on to the security services and just a few weeks earlier there had been a march in London to protest about the extremist attacks, but you decided to side with her and have a pop, again, at normal, peaceful people. You might not be as extreme as Sour Mash (again, why do you never, ever challenge his posts?) but you are right up there with Batman. Please don't pretend you don't have a problem with Islam. Your posts here show that you clearly do. As this is my last post today I'll take the time to also reply to Sour Mash (as it is a stupid point that you have also made in the past). Just because I am not best buddies with a load of Muslims, it doesn't mean that I cant have an opinion about the situation. As I said before, most of us here do not know a single Saints player but it doesn't stop us having an opinion about the club or the team. It is reducing the debate to a child's level. I don't pick and chose my friends from some kind of diversity hit list, do you? As for knowing Muslims Sour Mash, are those the ones you have put in hospital?

LOL. Bizarre, even by your standards Batman.

You, Sour Mash and Batman. So where is your list? You seem to more confused than usual. On another thread one minute you said you hate Diane Abbott then next post you changed your mind. Off the meds?

Ok. Provide a list of names of everyone here who is an apologist for these murderers.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/kabul-isis-explosion-attack-no-one-minutes-scilence-a7767341.html

Yes you are. And what difference does it matter what type of clothes you wear? Unless of cause you are looking for yet another reason to slag off a faith that you hate.

How unlike you to twist something to suit your own hate filled agenda. And for you and your Islamophobic/xenophobic buddies who keep saying that Muslims aren't doing enough to condemn the atrocities, this letter has just been published from from Harun Khan, Secretary General, Muslim Council of Britain.. "I am appalled and angered by the terrorist attacks at London Bridge and Borough Market in my home city. These acts of violence were truly shocking and I condemn them in the strongest terms. Muslims everywhere are outraged and disgusted at these cowards who once again have destroyed the lives of our fellow Britons. That this should happen in the month of Ramadan, when may Muslims were praying and fasting only goes to show that these people respect neither life nor faith. My prayers are with the victims and all those affected. I commend the work of our emergency services working hard to keep us safe and cope with the ensuing carnage. As ever we urge everyone to assist the authorities so that these criminals can be apprehended and brought to justice." Clear enough for you Sour Mash, Batman and Hypochondriac?

Indeed. What we are doing is clearly not working and we need to do something different. A change in foreign policy would be a start. Corbyn can do no worse and I can't understand why some people believe that May is our only hope when she and her like are part of the problem.

Who knows, but we can rely on you or Batman to tell us.

Not so. This picture (and the away shirt) was published yesterday on Sotonians (or papsweb if you prefer).

When he goes we should be looking to get the best return we can, so if that is from Liverpool, so what? He will not be our player anymore so why fret? We need to start looking at the bigger picture. We are a football club, not a sad loser who behaves like he keeps losing girlfriends to the same bloke. F*ck em. So long as they keep shovelling money our way lets keep knocking them out of cup semi finals and talking the p*ss out of them for being our B team.

You say that I know little about faith Whelk, but you seem to know remarkably little about people. Of course being a Christian doesn't make you necessary a good person just as being a Muslim doesn't necessarily make you a bad person. Quite clearly the discussion about the two different religions was meant to highlight that point. There is good and bad in any religion just as there is good and bad everywhere. Because there are some on here who are convinced thsat our problems are caused entirely by Islam, understandably there has been an effort to redress the balance. Katie Hopkins has only been a recurring theme because of one person's childish inability to see the original point which was made at the time. No one is holding Katie Hopkins up as a reason to say that Christian are just as bad as Muslims. Please don't lower yourself to Hypo's level. If you have any level of intelligence you will know that you can be a Christian and still do bad things. That is why they have the get out clause (repentance). Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the basis of Christianity that we are all sinners but can find our way to God through repentance? No point in building all those confessional boxes if no one has anything to confess eh? Unless you are saying if you do something really bad you cant possibly be a Christian??? Anyway, despite all the tangents and petty point scoring attempts, the point that seems to get lost is that there is a recurring argument that some see Islam as an evil religion and the cause of all our problems and some just see that it isn't the religion per se that is at fault and that, as with Christianity, there are people who practice the religion but still do things that fly in the face of that doctrine (sometimes using that very doctrine as justification). It seems that some here are looking to build bridges whilst others want walls. What do you think works better for the future of mankind Whelk? How well have the walls served us over the years? Oh, and by the way, this is a football forum. I don't expect to be debating deep rooted issues of the day with experts in their field. We are just a bunch of blokes talking b*ll*cks in between football matches, so I for one are not going to apologise for not being the Jeremy Paxman of internet football forum debates.

Strangely enough, I don't make friends according to race, creed, gender, sexuality etc. But I clearly need to do so if I am to remain in this debate. Oddly enough I prefer dogs over cats, but have neither too.

Goodness knows why anyone would want to educate themselves when they have already made up their mind on a subject, no matter how wrong. Far better to continue to make inane comments about belt buckles than seek the truth of the matter, eh?

You are going to show some proof that I ever said that Whelk. I expect this sort of thing from hypochondriac but thought you were above it? To make it easier for you, I don't believe your statement, but given that plenty of Christian clergy have been found guilty of kiddy fiddling it clearly does happen with some. Of course, for some strange reason for some, it is much worse if it is carried out by a Muslim. Go figure.

Instead of expending energy calling me names I suggest you go and do your research. You made a dumb comment about Hitler's belt buckle but it is a fact that the German shoulders had the inscription "Gott Mit Uns" on their buckles. The soldiers also had to swear an oath - "I swear by God this holy oath...to Adolf Hitler." There are countless references to senior party members attending church (Christian church). We have covered it in depth here before and there is a ton of information about Nazi Germany and Christianity out there if you bothered to look - not easy when your head is in the sand though is it? As for Katie Hopkins - raised in a convent. Made a fuss about being able to take her daughter to a nativity play (you know what nativity plays are all about Hypo don't you? Its celebrating the birth of the person Christianity is named after, so probably a Christian ceremony). To my knowledge has never slagged off Christianity but has spent many column inches slagging off Muslims. Still all you seem to worry about is whether she is a Christian or not, not about her Islamophobic bile, which speaks volumes about where you are coming from. You seem to delight in saying I am the only one who says that this is not about Islam. Many senior world leaders have said this too but because they don't hung out on an internet football chat line, you seem to ignore them. Finally, you get your panties in a bunch about Muslims needing to do more against extremism (you know, like "we" do with murders in "our" society). Here is one for you. Abedi flew a black Jihadi flag from his window. He was banned from his mosque. His Imam reported him. His family reported him. His friends and acquaintances reported him. Seems like a bunch of Muslims did quite a lot in this case and were let down by the security forces. But hey, let's just keep slagging off all Muslims shall we? Anyway, I am off to make a new bunch of Muslim friends now so I can join in this discussion properly!

Where did I say that you said that all Muslims are terrorists? You accuse me of lying but you seem to live in some parallel universe when it comes to facts. Don't worry about Katie Hopkins, although you wont be able to enjoy her on LBC anymore you can still read her poisonous bile in the Mail. By the way, apparently the newsroom at LBC all cheered when it was announced that she had been sacked. Good to know that she is held in such contempt amongst her peers. Did Hitler have a Christian belt buckle? I think you are making that up. (ps. Germany was and still is predominantly Christian country. They were a Christian country in 1939 to 1945 and there is a mountain of information out there about this religion and National Socialism. I know you don't want to believe it but go on, do yourself a favour a research it - you can start with Positive Christianity).

Yes I remember you telling us that you married into a Muslim family but that they weren't practising Muslims (and I think you added "thank goodness" to that). So if they aren't practising, they aren't Muslims surely? Please don't pretend that you don't have an issue with Muslims. Your posts on here are pretty damning. So because I don't know any Muslims personally I am not allowed to have a point of view about them? Now that really is laughable. I don't know any Saints players personally either so I guess that rules me out (and most here) on having an opinion about the team? You seem to have picked this up from Whelk. You did so much better when you were following CB Fry's lead. I don't live in a leafy suburb. I live 5 miles from Ashford, a town that has had armed security deployed this week. I went to Canterbury today, another place with armed security deployed this week. I was in Paris a week or two before the Bataclan massacre. My daughters live in Brighton and Glasgow. We are no safer than you, Batman or Sour Mash. What a very naïve comment. Nobody is safe from these people. I do not feel smug and superior to others but I am happy that I am not a blinkered intolerant Islamophobe. To say me and others like me are the problem once again shows you in your true colours. We are not in a diminishing number. More and more people are calling you and your like about your blinkered views. Once again, Islam is not the problem. The problem lies with a group of people who chose to use religion as an excuse for their actions. If Islam was the problem we would have a far greater issue on our hands. It is not a question of putting one's head in the sand, it is a question of not playing into ISIS's hands. Division is exactly what they want. Talking of smug and superior, have you noticed how your posts denigrate many decent, peaceful people just because they have a different religion? As I said before, you need to change your name from Hypochondriac to Hypocrite. Oh, and by the way, instead of slinking over to another site, down voting me and slinking away again, why not stay and join the debate? Man up stop behaving like a spineless coward. Or are you worried that the other posters will rip you to shreds again?

And if you have been watching TV lately, many Muslims have denounced the extremists too and say it has nothing to do with them, but it suits your agenda to say that they are all responsible. You, Hypochondriac and Sour Mash make a nice little club.

Unbelievable. Of course the current situation has nothing to do with the West's foreign policy in the Middle East. If we hadn't have been invaded by Germanic peoples back in the Dark Ages perhaps we wouldn't have so many white xenophobes now? Anyway, judging by the complaints by some that Muslims communities are not doing enough to combat extremists themselves, I can only assume we have a number of people here who work for Special Branch or MI5? It is my understanding that the security forces like to keep these things quite so unless they have inside information, how would they know, eh Hypochondriac?

I lump you in with the other two as you clearly have a problem with Muslims. Where have I ever said that anyone who suggests that Muslims should do more to combat extremism in their community is a racist. This is something which you have made up. But what do you expect people who haven't got a clue what is going on to do? If there was a murderer or a rapist in your town, is it your responsibility to go out and find him? I shall make this point again as you don't seem to be able to grasp it. The majority of peaceful Muslims in this country have got no more idea of planned terrorist attacks than you, Batman or Sour Mash, so, seriously, what are they supposed to do? Did you see the Muslims on TV recently say that this has absolutely nothing to do with them? How would you feel if every time one of these atrocities happened people expected you to assume responsibility and do something about it? You might dislike practising Muslims but you really need to get it into your head that they are not all responsible for the actions of a minority of deranged extremists.

I'm not saying that at all. I am saying that this has no more to do with peaceful Muslims than it does to you. Its a bit strong for you to accuse someone else of Islamophobia. Can you stop non Muslims committing murder, rape, theft? No of course not. So is this a price to pay for having you living in this country?