sadoldgit

Non mental people? What sort of comment is that? So everyone who has an issue with the McCann's version of event are more likely to be mental? Of course they have gone after Amaral. They have tried to silence anyone who implicates them. He managed to get his book published in the end through so they failed there. Watch his film and tell me what you think. Do you have children of your own?

What is a lie? Kate's comment? Unless they got a good lookalike in the studio I dont think so. I dont think I am alone here in saying if my child went missing I'd be up all night looking for her. Anyway are you going to answer my question ? Do you have children of your own?

That is the problem Whitey. I think that the people who do not believe the McCanns look at the way they have behaved throughout this episode and thought, they don't seem like a couple who have lost a child. I have seen their demeanour explained as narcissism and perhaps that is true. It takes a certain kind of person to leave very young children alone night after night. I have seen this explained away by Gerry McCann as just like sitting in his back garden but 50 metres away in a different part of the complex is not just like sitting in your back garden at all.

I watched the summing up and agree that she worded it carefully. I dont agree that when you fire a gun several times through a door in an enclosed space that you cant be expected to know that you might actually do them a great deal of damage, There are a lot of people in the legal system here who think she has got it wrong. I think most people would have a good idea that if they were sharing a bedroom with another person, that they were there. If you thought you heard a noise you would check with your partner before you went charging off and starting firing a gun.Still it is done now and I would say that Oscar is a very lucky young man.

The mother didnt say that, she said it doesnt matter, he is going t pay something. I'm just glad it is all over. I think that the Dad may have said he was ok with it Have they said they arent appealing? At the last news item I heard that wasnt clear.

My bad, should have said convicted.

How do you know it is a lie? There is a great deal of information about the McCann's demeanour after the "abduction." I have just watched an interview with Kate on YouTube. When asked why they didnt go and help look for Madeleine she replied that they were too tired. Now maybe they were, but really, if your three year old (and I am assuming you have children here) was missing wouldnt you make the effort to go find her? This by the way is not a lie, it came from her own mouth. A lot of people doubt what they say because t hey dont come across as credible people. Now perhaps they both are just unique and do not show their feelings - but, like it or not, a lot of normal non hate filled people dont believe the McCanns.

So let me get this right. The original investigating office is a hate filled liar? I'd say your comments are more than a wild generalisation. I know plenty of people who are well grounded who have issues with the McCanns over this case. The are not hate filled and they do not lie. They just express an opinion (and with the vitriol that you constantly display here when you dont agree with anyone by the way).

There is an awful lot of misinformation "out there" about this case. Recently I have read all sorts of stuff which purports to be to be true only to find other pieces which supposedly debunk it. I understand that people think that Richard Hall is a nutcase and cant be bothered to spend 4 hours watching his films. Fine. He isnt the only person asking questions. Having got fed up with articles saying they said this, no they didnt, they did this, no they didnt, I'd thought I'd cut to the chase and look at what the guy who led the investigation had to say. There is a 52 minute film on YouTube which is based on his book The Truth of the Lie. The so called "Keystone Cop" Insp Goncalo Amaral, goes through the case in his own words an explains why he came to his conclusion. I am sure those of you who are avidly pro McCann will pull holes in it, but it is interesting to get his viewpoint. As for your comments about having children Mr Fry, I am interested if it makes a difference to how people see the McCann case. Whether they are more likely to be anti McCann if they have children of their own. Not sure why you got so upset about that. I have heard people say they support Kate McCann and in the next breath call her a MILF. It would be interesting to know why people form their opinions, to me anyway. Do some feel she is telling the truth because they think she is "fit" ? If she was overweight, unattractive and out of work would she get the same amount of symapthy? I am not trying to be clever, but the McCanns clearly divide opinion and it would be interesting to know why.

You are a very angry, unhappy man aren't you? Why cant we have a civilised debate about this?

I agree. It should be a site where we can debate the McCann situation but it just becomes a place where people slag each other off.

I am not saying it did happen, I am saying it is not impossible.

I agree that the prosecutor was very poor. At times he seemed to be playing to the gallery and maybe was over confident. However I still find it hard to believe that the judge thinks it is ok to fire a gun through a door at close range in a confined space and not expect to do somene some serious damage. And three months suspended for firing a gun in a restaurant? Remind me not to eat out if I every go to S Africa. It is a nonsense. He "thought" that Reeva was in the bedroom (where he was). He thought there was an intruder in the loo. He shouted to Reeva to call the police and she didnt respond even though she was only a few feet away, she had a packed bag in the bedroom looking if she was leaving, strong evidence of a row..........The prosecution was poor but the judge wasnt much better. I am not a great fan of juries but you have to wonder if he would have got off so light if he had been in front of 12 peers?

Happy with the length of it or just that he got time? The other day they didnt seem happy that he wasnt charged with murder.

The timeline is clearly an issue and not nailed on so I am not sure why you are so hung up on it. The original investigator clearly thought it was possible. Is it so far fetched? They clearly were not bothered that much about their children's wellbeing as they left them alone every night. They werent short of a few bob and child care was easy enough. Kate said she didnt want to leave them with "strangers" so preferred to leave them alone! These stangers would have been the same strangers who looked after the children in the creche when they were left during the day. Apparently traces of sedative were found in Madeleine's hair found in her brush. Is it not possible that they gave the children a sedative whilst they went out and something went wrong? The body could have been put anywhere short term and then moved later. A police investigtor has suggested that burial in a shallow grave in sand in a dry atmosphere helps the body to mummify. The fluids drain and the smell of the corpse reduces. They did have a car days later and the police dogs foun evidence of blood and cadaver smells that matched Maddie's DNA. Talking about probablities. What are the chances of a paedo walking up to an appartment, finding it unlocked, walking in and finding no one at home apart from three small children and walking out with the biggest? Given the Tapas 9 were out every night it is more possible that someone could have been aware that the children were left alone and planned it - but then they would have had to be around for a while whilst planning it all but at some point you would think that they would have aroused some suspicion and would ahve become a suspect early on. Even so there was no signed of a forced entry, no sign of anyone else being in the apartment. Kate was adamant that the window was used but on her print was found on the window. Have you seen the window? It is nt very big and the chances of an adult getting in or out with a small child is very small. The bedroom did not match Kate's account of what happened and looks very much like the furniture was rearranged. Curtains that were billowing in the breeze from the open window were now behind a bed and a chair etc. The McCann's didn't have time to look for their child but they found the time to delete many messages on their mobiles. They were heartbroken but found time to fly off to see the Pope, leaving the twins in the same place where their other child had been "abducted." Kate is quoted as saying if Maddy had of hurt herself when they were out, how was that their fault (WTF?). There is tons of this stuff and that is my problems with this case. There is so much that doesnt add up with what the McCanns would have us believe. You say that they have done a good job in covering it up but that is the point. If she was dead then all they have done that can be described as a good job is disposing of the body. Everything else is a bodge. They have convinced some people of their innocence and others believe that they have not told the whole truth. I wonder if this split has anything to do with those with young children and those without?

You are probably right and they could well not get charged with child neglect. IMHO they should have been, No one has to watch the four hours of film but I found it interesting and it helped fill a lot of gaps in what I had picked up so far. Considering that the dog evidence has been spot on in 200 cases I would say it was utterly irrelevant, There were of course attempts to discredit this evidence but if you look outside this case to see how this works you might be more respectful of police dogs. I really do not have time to get names of investigators and why should I. You believe they are all nutters and nothing I will say will prove otherwise. However this isnt rocket science and many people have picked up on the discrepencies in the McCanns stories. Why should the McCanns let the police investigation stop? As long as it goes on the money comes into their fund and some people believe they MUST be guiltless. As Geery says, she us the body. He knows as long as they dont find the body they are ok. They seem to have convinced you which makes me wonder if you have children of your own? Fours days after Madeleine went missing Gerry McCann was seen "laughing his head off." Apparently neither of her parents have ever, including the night she went missing, looked for Maddie themselves. There are many, many other recorded accounts of their behaviour which does not add up with the behaviour of parents how have lost a young child. How would you react?

I doubt if he will do the five years. Very poor. Reeva's family must be gutted. Still it could have been worse, he could have got community service! How he didnt get charged for murder I will never know but it appears that if you fire 4 dum dum bullets at someone at close range through a toilet door you cant be expected to know that they might die.

There are many people looking into the McCann case who are anything but "internet crackpots and fools." As for the let off the hook remark, they are,at the very least, guilty of child neglect surely?

She had a long and varied career and more recently was a regular on Loose Women. She decided to stop having treatment on her cancer recently and hoped to spend one last Christmas with her family. Sadly that didn't happen. She faced her illness with courage and dignity. Grew up with those Oxo ads.

Whatever you think of conspiracy theories and theorists, it is good that people don't automatically accept what they are fed and ask questions. There are issues over the McCann case that haven't been satisfactory addressed and those should be the issue rather than attacking fellow posters. Like many I guess, I have dipped in and out of the news items of this case over the years. From the early days I had my doubts about the validity of the McCanns accounts so yes, I have an agenda and will seek out items that reinforce my position. I found the Hall films helpful because I hadnt seen the "crime scene" before and wasnt aware of many of the conflicting statements made by the McCanns and the Tapas 7. Maybe they are kosher,maybe they are not. But it bothers me that they seem to be playing fast and loose with the truth (for whatever reason). It doesnt hurt to keep an open mind and I fully accept that my view of the McCanns could be wrong. But until there is a definite conclusion about what happened to Madeleine I do believe that there is still enough uncertainty around the McCanns not to let them off the hook.

Very brave lady. RIP.

Refs decision is final guys!

We have just won eight nil. A penalty wasn't awarded and Forster wasn't sent off. Why worry?

Maybe. Who knows? Shame that they haven't been charged for child neglect.

Bit harsh to not give it to Pelle methinks after watching it again this morning.