sadoldgit

There is still a long way to go. We have some decent players to come back from injury and there are several sides a lot worse than us.

Blimey we have been relegated already? Mystic Alpine strikes again. And the lottery numbers for next week will be???

Here we go again, everything is Burley's is fault. When Higgy was here here was slated for being a hoofer. A number of better players came in under Burley? Better players have come and gone like Davies, remember? Burley's fault? Burley left some time ago, since then we have had two different mangers, why aren't you blaming them for he state of the defence? Doesn't fit your agenda does it? Hasn't JP been here long enough to take the rap for our defensive frailties yet or are you leaving him alone because "he is a decent chap" and you are still blaming our problems on a long departed manager? Higgy chose to leave for more money, I am sure has was really gutted about that.

He wasn't allowed anywhere near the first team, which given the postion we were in, you would have though that @Arry could have done with some advice from a "winner". Like him or not, he was never given a chance to show what he could do at SFC.

If everybody left who ever devided the fan base the club would have collapsed years ago!

He seemed to know more about goalkeepers than WGS! He gave WGS a job when his stock was low, turned out to be a good call. How do you know that he interferes with the team? The only people that divide the fan base is the fan base. Have you not noticed? The fan base are ALWAYS divided about something or someone. he had his moments but would anyone know he was back up the club now? Talk about keeping a low profile.. He is doing a job that if he was not here someone else would have to do, with the same constraints, so why go? At least he knows the club, who is to say someone esle will do any better?

Do the majority of fans go or not go to football matches because of the Chairman or because of what is on display on the pitch - or other reasons? Whilst we know that there are some here who will not go because of the chairman, most will not go because a number of other reasons - Cost, not being in the Prem, finding other things to do, fed up with overpaid footballers, lots of live footy on the telly, no drinking and driving..I am sure there are a lot more reasons that people can find for not going. I stopped going to live matches regularly years ago because a) I started playing footbal myself at weekends and b) the hooliganism. Now I rarely go because I think that the prices ar crazy. I used to be able to turn up on the day and get in with my pocket money. Now I have to plan well in advance, try and get a ticket, and pay about £100 for myself for a home match - £200 if I take my partner, for the day. I am sorry. As much as I love SFC I cannot justify that kind of expenditure on a football match more than a couple of times a year.

The fact that TB & LM are the "top" managers speaks volumes for continuity and sticking by people. LM had the worst start possible and then struggled to get back up with the likes of Channon in the side, but the club stoood by him and reaped the dividends. For me CN was not the right choice to follow LM and when people talk about when the rot set in, that was it for me. LM left a great legacy behind and we needed some to build on that. CN was not that man. We never reached the same heights again. I don't think there is a firm third. WGS, GH and GB all had their moments but no one really stayed around long enough to have what you could call a "career" here. What I find really sad is that over the last half a century, we only have had two oustanding managers - but then many clubs in that time have not even had one...

A takeover is no guarantee of sucess and might even be a more cruel scenario in that the fanbase would assume a cash injection would eqaute to a Prem return and be massively let down if that did not materialise. Remember? The Wilde Bunch rode into town and splashed some paint and money around by like a cheap night on the p*ss, all we were left with was a hang over and a nasty little rash. Whether we survive, flourish or go down the pan is all in the lap of the Gods. There are no quick fixes. There are no sure fire solutions. In many ways I am glad that we hae not been taking over by some "corporation". The so called "big clubs" are mostly racking up huge debts. What is going to happen to them in the long run? This money has to be repaid and at some point I can see some Prem clubs going under, such is the financial climate. It might not be too nice to contemplate, but the best thing for SFC as a club might be to cut its cloth accordingly and jog along in the CCC. What is worse, not getting back in the Prem or the club folding entirely?

I don't agree. Lowe might have gone though plenty of managers back didn't sack many. He might well have lent of him a little to play some of the youngsters though and I would imagine the spending would have been curbed.

Here we go again. Go check the other teams that have gone down over the years apart from Man U. Spurs, Leeds, Notts Forest etc. And gues what, not one of those clubs had Lowe as CEO. It was always going to happen to us at some point and how it didn't happen before I don't know. Goodness knows where we would have ended up without MLT for all those years. Most years it seemed that the pundits were tipping us for relegation, even Dave Jones quipped that he thought we were called "Struggling Southampton". Face it, we were a small club with a long histroy in the top flight whose day was going to come and did, just like a host of others clubs our size.

Wasn't he given £6m ???

A wasted opportunity when he was here. With the team fading fast if you were manager would you knock on his door and ask for advice? What was there to lose apart from our Prem status and Harry's ego? I just find it odd that we are so quick to knock down anyone who has any success, I mean it is not as if this club has not needed some of that over the last how many years??? I suspect that he still suffers from his association with Lowe. If he had been a part of the Wilde Bunch I wonder if his arrival would have been greeted differntly by those who think that his methods can't be transferred to other sports? We went down the shoot not because of Woodward but because certain people were too arrogant to let him near the first team. Maybe he would have made a differnce, maybe not, but could he done any worse than Arry? Still, not to worry, he won't be back, nor will anyone of note after the way they get treated by a large percentage of our fans.

Playground mentality again Alpine? You can dish it out but when it all comes rushing back to you you pick up your ball and trot off home.....

No harm in trying to raise the level of debate out of the gutter and away from bigotted, petty minded abuse though is there? It is all too easy to come on these places and spout ill thought out rants as the member we are dealing with here does all too often. I don't know about you, but I feel very uncomfortable when a fellow human being not only delights in seeing another fail, but constantly uses up a lot of time and energy to point any such or alleged failures out to everyone else. It is also easy to peddle third hand internet gossip as fact to back up weak arguements, something else our fellow scribe does on more or less a daily basis. This should be a place where Saints fans can come and deal with the issues surrounding the club without having to wince at the performances from some people who seem to get a kick out of pulling people apart and in wallowing in pessimism and negativity. I have lost count at the number of times Alpine has been banned. Maybe we should adopt the US way forward, three strikes and you are out? Maybe then he will behave himself and treat others with a bit of respect.

Yep, you never fail to let me down Alpine, and you never fail to bite, no matter how many times you say you will no longer respond. Well don't worry, I won't ask you to expand on your subjective, rascist and downright prejudiced opinions any longer. Like most opinionated bullies, instead of responding with a reasoned arguement you completelty sidestep the question and just reaffirm your ignorance by bolstering your orginal position with further abuse aimed elsewhere. England might not look like world beaters but they have maximum points. I know that means nothing to you because you think that a manager that took us to the players offs was a total failure, so no doubt, when we qualify for the next world cup we shall be total failues too. Still, as you have either bailed out of this country (or have been hounded out by your neighbours) I expect that your allegence now lies with that football powerhouse, Austria? Oh, and if you mean by reaching the top pinnicle of your profession, whether that means being the CEO of your company or managing your national football team is seen as making it "big", then yes. I think that most people with a reasonable grasp of basic decsion making would think that was the case. The biggest prize in footballing hisory is the World Cup Alpine. Therefore no manager can claim to be the "world's best" until he has won the world's biggest competition. ps, if you want to throw in winning the Champions league, that excludes clubs from a large percentage of the world.

As much as I can understand why people don't warm to Mr Cole, as long as the manager picks him he is an England player. If we want to win something again we need to support our team (ie the players) while they are playing. If booing ever had a benefit on a teams/players performace then why are teams who are booed regulalry top of the league? Because it doesn't work and it doesn't help. If you are doing a crap job and people come up and slag you off, do you work better or worse? Does your confidence rise or sink and do you feel better about yourself or worse? I know the old arguement that it makes people want to prove the booers wrong. Listen it doesn't work like that. It is ignorant and unhelpful, plain and simple. As for the, "I have paid my money and am entitled to boo brigade", do you boo a horse when it loses a race or a Britsish tennis player when once again they fail to win a majour tournament? No. So why boo a footballer? Whether Cole is good or bad is neither here nor there. I think a lot of it comes down to plain jealousy. He earns shedloads of money for kicking a ball abaout and has a lifestyle (and a fit wife) that 99.9% of the fans can only dream about. Therefore, as soon as he makes a mistake he is fair game. There is a hint in here. It is the word "supporter". The word "supporter" is derived from the word "support". "Support" implies positivity. Where does booing fit in with that ethos?

No bigotry there then Alpine? LOL. And you talk about me lsoing credibility??? You really have no problem at all in slagging off people you have never met and know precious little about do you? And if they are foreign so much the better. If they ever make a movie of Till Death Us Do Part you would be perfect for the Alf Garnett role. Whilst you are at it Geoff, England gave the world Alpine Saint, boy does this country have a lot to answer for. Okay, I am done, feel free to make another comment about my membership status instead of answering the many questions you have either ducked or responded to with racial slurs and general abuse.

The reason Redknapp failed here is because he could not be bothered. In his own words he ddn't know what he was doing here (probably getting back at Mandaric), he always talked about SFC in the third person. THese things had nothing to do with Lowe or Woodward. When Harry could not buy Morrison he gave up the chase for a striker saying he would make do with what he had (in a season when we couldn't score). That had nothing to do with Lowe, who said at the time he was waiting for Redknapp to provide him with a list of targets. On the day before the most crucial game in years (home against Man United) he gave the players a day off. Nice one Harry. That worked a treat. BY all account Redknapp was constantly on the phone to Mandaric whilst here, and who can forget the notorious thumbs up to Mandaric at Fratton Park after Portsmouth had humiliated us? I think that most of us thought that Redknapp could keep us up when he arrived, but he watsed something like £6m on rubbish like Davenport when we were crying out for a decent centre half. I don't believe that he came to deliberatlely sabotage the club, but he surely could not have done much worse if he had.

We were poor for a long time in the Prem but I guess people turned up just to see a Prem game. I used to live in S London and go to Palace with my mates, not because I was interested in Palace but because I wanted to see a Prem game. Less people are interested in CCC footy and what we have now is probably a true refection of the hard core "paying" support. I used to turn up at the gate and get in with my pocket money, now you need a second mortage and a ticket. I am not going to spend the same amount of money going to a football match as I would to a rock concert. I think football has priced itself out of a certain market.

However our manager is right now would have a tough job. This is not about the short term, it is about the long term, but how many fans have any patience beyond the next half a dozen games? Whether you agree with the building on youth strategy or not, I don't see that we have much option. With little money available for new signings JP has to build for the future with what he has and he needs support whilst doing so. Whether he succeeds are not, only time will tell, but I think it is way to early to make any judgements yet. On the up side he does want his sides to play football whereas we could easliy have ended up with someone who just wanted to lump the ball forwar. That is the easy and quick option. As Burley found, it is not easy to get you teams to keep the ball on the ground and play when there is so much at stake. JPs sides seem to want to do that, so perhaps if he can keep working on the football ethic hopefully it will all come right at some point. One thing is for sure, it certainly isn't going to happen overnight or anytime soon.

Burely is obviously not a useless manager. He has a decent record at club level and now manages his country. To say it was all down to Snodin is pure conjecture. As far as I know, Snodin was nowhere near Ipswich when Burley took them up and into Europe. What I would like to know (and I know that I will not get an answer as Alpine avoids all tricky questions) is, given that Redknapp was the manager who took us down, wasted millions of pounds buying poor players, dissed the kids, ignored the advice of a world cup winner and talked about the club in the third party as if he was nothing to do with us, why does Alpine not spill some of his toxic bile on him? Burley has one full season with SFC in which we scored lots of goals, were one of the more entertaining teams in the league and were very unlucky not to make the play offs, yet that is reason the rip him to shreds at EVERY opportunity? Last season Burley lost two of the best defenders in the league and a decent striker, a striker I should add that flourished under Burley's management. A senior exec thens launches into print and effectively says that we are parking our ambition. Yet somehow that is Burely's falut and he is rubbish. Hoddle has the best first 10 game start with 14 points. In Burley's last 10 games he picked up 14 points. Listen to Alpine and youw ould think we were in freefall. No Alpine, we were in freefall after he left. Who can forget that awful game against Bristol Rovers when we had Dodd, Gorman and Pearson at the helm? We bumped along after that and managed to srap together 3 wins which just about kept us up. At the time Burely left we were still within a hand full of points of the play offs. But no, he is rubbish and no amount of debate will persude him otherwise. Despite the fact tht he has met no of these men and does not go to games, Alpine manages to deduce all of this heavy stuff from behind his computer screen. He knows that Burley is apparently a usless Scottish drunk(doesn't that smake to you of bigotry Alpine?) and that Pearson and JP are both decent chaps who are doing great jobs despite everything just by reading third hand stories on the internet. With an ability like that Alpine should be Prime Minister. History Alpine, shows that a) you learn nothing from it and b) your rewrite it constantly from your dingy dungeon bolt hole. I shall now give you an opportunity to prove to all of us doubters that you do, in fact, know what you are talking about. Please provide us all with hard fact to show that it was Snodin rather then Burley who was responsible for getting us to the play offs. That would be proof that Snodin bought the players, trained them, sorted out the tactics, gave the half time talks and decided on the substitutions. Hard proof mind, not just half baked theories that you form in the gloom of your bunker. While you are at it you can throw in your reasoning why, if it was all down to Snodin, he is not the Scottish manager now? Then if that doesn't tax your brain too much, I would like an indepth reasoning behind why you think that it is perfectly okay to come on and make your unpleasant allegations about George Burley but why Harry Redknapp escapes your vitriol. Afterall, everything we read on the interent is true, so good old 'Arry was on the take wasn't he? Surely wedges of cash in brown envelopes is just as big a target as alleged drunkeness Alpine? And if Burley winds you up because he failed to take us up, surely the man who took us down in the first place is more deserving of your attention? If you think people bait you Alpine, why do you think that is? You accuse me of being a bigot yet quit happily come on here and spout bigotry. You do not go to matches yet come and make judgement on the managers when having nothing to found your comments on other then 2nd and 3rd hand stories on the internet. You make judegements (some of the damning and probably libellous) against people you have never, and will never meet, again, just using what you have gleaned from the internet -and you think that is perfectly acceptable. Every time, yes every time Alpine, someone puts you on the spot you sidestep the question and resort to your well honed abuse, smilies or ZZZZs. Your posts are highly subjective and inconsistant and your constant negativity is a drain on the soul. Take your recent classic, two nil up and looking good for a third and all you post was, "I hope we can hang on". Speak volumes about your mindset Alpine and I feel sorry for you and anyone within earshot of you. You seem to revel in doom and gloom and only come alive when things are not going well. There is a little song from the end of The Life of Brian that, everytime you sit down to post, I would like you to sing to yourself Alpine. It goes, "Always look on the bright side of life." Go on, give it a try, let's see if you are capable of lightness, evenhandedness, balance, objectivity and dare I say it, fun?

Still as charming as ever Alpine I see. So you HAVE meet Burley, Pearson and JP and spent time with them both in the office and out on the training ground? That is why you are able to make such an objective judgement about the merits of all three men. Good, I am glad we cleared that up. I am also glad that you think a manager who took us to the play offs is one of the worst we ever had. In that case your list of "worst managers" must be pretty long Alpine. 1.54 points a game, yeah rubbish wasn't it. I suppose Sir Alf Ramsey was rubbish to for failing to beat those pesky West germans in 1970 despite having one of the best squads in the competition. Or every manager that Chelsea have had recently are rubbish for not winning he Champions League? Bigot? Do I come on here and make unfounded slurs against people and their birthplace? No. You are the one that comes on and slags people off matey. Feel free to provide proof of this so called love of the, what, football messiah? I simply point out that the manager who you rate as complete rubbish not counting all of the other slurs about alchohol that you rake up actuall succeeded in his aim of reaching the play offs and may have done so again last season if the club had not sold Bale, Baird and Jones. He is also the manager with the best points per game record. If that is a love affair then I pity your wife Alpine. So then....did he run off with her???

You have Alpine's lack of char so I definately think you two have something going on. Just FYI, I don't think you live in Spain, I was just using your name and applying a litle imgaination to make a point. If you are not anti-Burley why do you continue to rally to Alpine's defence everytime I challenge him on his obsessive hatred of the man? Now back to Alpine. You are still doing it aren't you? When faced with hard facts there is not response other than your usual digs. Tell me, what would you give for 1.54 points a game? Tell me, have you ever actually met all of these men who you have made judgements on or are you just going by what you read on internet forums? Tell me, what do you hate George Burley so much? Did he run off with your wife? Burgle your house? Tell me, why no scorn for all of the other Southampton managers who have failed to deliver success? And just to help me get a fix on where you are coming from, feel free to tell me how many live games you saw under a) Burley b) Pearson and c) JP so that I know that your judgement on their management abilities are based on what you, yourself, have witnessed. Hacienda, let's see if Alpine can manage these questions on his own shall we?

1.54 points per game. That is all the credibility I am interested in.