We dont belong in the PL

Hear me out.

This isnt a quality issue about players, executive management, team manager. Even if we bought Messi, Ronaldo and got Guardiola in, I still would think the same.

The PL has changed massively since we were last in it, and even then we struggled most seasons. We simply dont have the infrastructure, money, and most importantly, the mindset as fans and club for the PL. Our fans are loyal, passionate, and not fair-weather. Yes, I frequently pull a massive strop and portray everything as negative, but I love this club of ours and could never follow another; its just an emotional, perhaps even childish outburst in response to events. I swear that we care more about our club than most PL teams, and I couldnt give a sh*t waht the media portrays about fanaticism from clubs like Newcastle.

Be honest, last season, riding high in the Championship, was the mutts nuts compared to this. Winning most weeks, smiles on faces round town, better atmosphere in the bars on Saturday night. Look forward to the next game with excitement, not fear.

Oh, and we played regular-as-clockwork on Saturday and mid-week.

The PL, it just doesnt feel right. It feels shallow, hollow, emotionally cold, petty.

How can you feel that from Austria

What difference is there apart from the results

I don't feel that in the south west

Serious point

How can you feel that from Austria

What difference is there apart from the results

 

I don't feel that in the south west

 

Serious point

I'm in Austria, not Australia.

I talk to people regularly back in Soton.

Its my impression from a variety of sources.

Its not just about winning. There is no "fun" and little enjoyment in the PL, it seems to me.

I am getting prepared for relegation. I just wish we were putting up a fight.

I would agree, (IMO the PL is obscene), but nevertheless having got here we could be having a far better go at it, this is just humiliating!

The only way I can see this improving is if the big 4-6 do break away into a Euro Super League and leave the rest of us to get on with it.

I wonder what fans of the likes of Norwich and Swansea really think about the PL...

Hear me out.

 

This isnt a quality issue about players, executive management, team manager. Even if we bought Messi, Ronaldo and got Guardiola in, I still would think the same.

 

The PL has changed massively since we were last in it, and even then we struggled most seasons. We simply dont have the infrastructure, money, and most importantly, the mindset as fans and club for the PL. Our fans are loyal, passionate, and not fair-weather. Yes, I frequently pull a massive strop and portray everything as negative, but I love this club of ours and could never follow another; its just an emotional, perhaps even childish outburst in response to events. I swear that we care more about our club than most PL teams, and I couldnt give a sh*t waht the media portrays about fanaticism from clubs like Newcastle.

 

Be honest, last season, riding high in the Championship, was the mutts nuts compared to this. Winning most weeks, smiles on faces round town, better atmosphere in the bars on Saturday night. Look forward to the next game with excitement, not fear.

 

Oh, and we played regular-as-clockwork on Saturday and mid-week.

 

The PL, it just doesnt feel right. It feels shallow, hollow, emotionally cold, petty.

Couldn't agree more. All of last season I was saying that we weren't good enough to go up. Looking back we obviously were, the league doesn't lie. However, upon reflection I think what I was getting at was that if we did go up we wouldn't be good enough to stay up. You could see that there was a huge gulf between us and a Premiership team.

I can't believe Nigel still has a job. How many managers keep their job after a string of results and stats like we've had?

The only way I can see this improving is if the big 4-6 do break away into a Euro Super League and leave the rest of us to get on with it.

 

I wonder what fans of the likes of Norwich and Swansea really think about the PL...

Why. Look at WBA. 5th in the table with a squad thy costs no where near ours

West ham are doing well considering we were better than them last season

Why. Look at WBA. 5th in the table with a squad thy costs no where near ours

 

West ham are doing well considering we were better than them last season

WBA are enjoying their 15mins of fame, as did we back under Hoddle, although we werent good enough to sustain it.

West Ham fit the PL profile, despite patchiness on-field. Remember the PL bent their own rules to prevent them being relegated over Tevez. Their "face" and therefore their mentality as a club, fits.

WBA are enjoying their 15mins of fame, as did we back under Hoddle, although we werent good enough to sustain it.

 

West Ham fit the PL profile, despite patchiness on-field. Remember the PL bent their own rules to prevent them being relegated over Tevez. Their "face" and therefore their mentality as a club, fits.

It's only rubbish as we are screwing it up. If we were say 12th in the table playing good football. All talk of Europe and stadium expansions would be rife

No one would be complaining about the prem then. Saying we have just come up and setting ourselves up for an assault on te top half Etc

Hear me out.

 

This isnt a quality issue about players, executive management, team manager. Even if we bought Messi, Ronaldo and got Guardiola in, I still would think the same.

 

The PL has changed massively since we were last in it, and even then we struggled most seasons. We simply dont have the infrastructure, money, and most importantly, the mindset as fans and club for the PL. Our fans are loyal, passionate, and not fair-weather. Yes, I frequently pull a massive strop and portray everything as negative, but I love this club of ours and could never follow another; its just an emotional, perhaps even childish outburst in response to events. I swear that we care more about our club than most PL teams, and I couldnt give a sh*t waht the media portrays about fanaticism from clubs like Newcastle.

 

Be honest, last season, riding high in the Championship, was the mutts nuts compared to this. Winning most weeks, smiles on faces round town, better atmosphere in the bars on Saturday night. Look forward to the next game with excitement, not fear.

 

Oh, and we played regular-as-clockwork on Saturday and mid-week.

 

The PL, it just doesnt feel right. It feels shallow, hollow, emotionally cold, petty.

It doesn't feel right because we messed up massively with our signings in the Summer and that is costing us massively now. The team is just not good enough, lacking that final 'killer' pass in the final third, and I think we will get relegated. It will give us the chance to rebuild with a decent squad for that league minus Lallana and maybe Ramirez, to come back up again and give it a better shot.

A big problem is our midfield and defensive players are all very small and/or slightly built and lacking muscle and power to compliment and back up the technical skills. WBA et al just bullied and intimidated them off the ball, off the park, and the nerves that creates forces endless errors. That big black guy WBA had just bossed the place and took the ****.

Adkins needs to bulk them up in the Staplewood gym FFS.

It's only rubbish as we are screwing it up. If we were say 12th in the table playing good football. All talk of Europe and stadium expansions would be rife

No one would be complaining about the prem then. Saying we have just come up and setting ourselves up for an assault on te top half Etc

Spot on that. Myself like others have said, can handle losing but the manner in which we are playing and losing is unforgivable.

I can totally see Apls' point, but and when we first got promoted I thought I wouldn't mind if we got relegated, but now we are here survival is all I care about this season.

We simply dont have the infrastructure, money, and most importantly, the mindset as fans and club for the PL. Our fans are loyal, passionate, and not fair-weather. .

What a load of tosh. We have one of the best infrastructures in the country. Mindset as fans???? You say they are loyal, passionate and not fair weather, so what more do you want? JCLs, prawn sandwich munchers, those that come from the opposite end of the country?

And looking at the PL, are we any different from: OPR, Reading, Stoke, Norwich, Wigan, Swansea, Fulham, WBA to mention a few? And of the others like Villa, Sunderland and Newcastle - what really is their difference save for bigger stadia? You seem to be linking this all to our lack of success this season, and maybe the thread title will turn out to be prophetic come the end of the season, but not for the reason you give.

As for your last bit about the PL not feeling right and that it is shallow/hollow.emotionally cold, well that's something totally different. I agree that the money involved in it has ruined it, and yes, I far preferred going to the Dell in the 70s/80s on a Saturday/Wednesday, but maybe that is my memory embellishing how good things were. I loved the Cup games as well and those European nights were special, rather than being overly common now and really the main goal of clubs. Certainly we were successful in those days given our meagre set up. In those days football still seemed to be a sport rather than a business. I know a lot of people who have become so disillusioned that they have gone from owning a fair chunk of Saints (pre take over by Lowe) to giving up on a season ticket to now not even bothering to go. But that's the older generation and there are plenty of new people to take their place, although I fear for them what with the prices involved these days. Alpine, maybe you are going this way as well. They still love the club, but football has lost its attraction. If I am honest, having said you spoke a lot of tosh, while I still disagree over the infrastructure bit, I have to agree with you about the PL and I can see myself in a few years not keeping my season ticket and basically giving up on the game.

As an aside, I would reorganise things totally for our Champions League entrants. Winner and runners-up to enter, and winners of the FA & League Cup to get the other two qualifying places. As things are in the PL, half the league is trying to get to 4th place and then cash in on the big bucks of CL nights and that to me, along with Sky, is what has ruined things. At least if the Cup competitions gave something to the winners (rather than the ridiculous situation of rewarding teams that finish 3rd and 4th) that might make those two (or at least one) wonderful competitions worthwhile.

you hear this all the time, so whats the point? Whats the point of winning in the Championship and then not going into the PL?

So we may as well win down Stoneham Lane or something. Its a pointless argument from someone who was hellbent on moaning when we weren't beating Blackpool and Boro last year "We are Doomed....", and now he says, whats the point of being in this league - Nuts.

We simply dont have the infrastructure, money....

How does that square with the fact that we have the 12th largest stadium in the premiership (17th largest in the entire country) and were able to waste £30 million (far more than most clubs) this summer?

What a load of tosh. We have one of the best infrastructures in the country. Mindset as fans???? You say they are loyal, passionate and not fair weather, so what more do you want? JCLs, prawn sandwich munchers, those that come from the opposite end of the country?

 

And looking at the PL, are we any different from: OPR, Reading, Stoke, Norwich, Wigan, Swansea, Fulham, WBA to mention a few? And of the others like Villa, Sunderland and Newcastle - what really is their difference save for bigger stadia? You seem to be linking this all to our lack of success this season, and maybe the thread title will turn out to be prophetic come the end of the season, but not for the reason you give.

 

As for your last bit about the PL not feeling right and that it is shallow/hollow.emotionally cold, well that's something totally different. I agree that the money involved in it has ruined it, and yes, I far preferred going to the Dell in the 70s/80s on a Saturday/Wednesday, but maybe that is my memory embellishing how good things were. I loved the Cup games as well and those European nights were special, rather than being overly common now and really the main goal of clubs. Certainly we were successful in those days given our meagre set up. In those days football still seemed to be a sport rather than a business. I know a lot of people who have become so disillusioned that they have gone from owning a fair chunk of Saints (pre take over by Lowe) to giving up on a season ticket to now not even bothering to go. But that's the older generation and there are plenty of new people to take their place, although I fear for them what with the prices involved these days. Alpine, maybe you are going this way as well. They still love the club, but football has lost its attraction. If I am honest, having said you spoke a lot of tosh, while I still disagree over the infrastructure bit, I have to agree with you about the PL and I can see myself in a few years not keeping my season ticket and basically giving up on the game.

 

As an aside, I would reorganise things totally for our Champions League entrants. Winner and runners-up to enter, and winners of the FA & League Cup to get the other two qualifying places. As things are in the PL, half the league is trying to get to 4th place and then cash in on the big bucks of CL nights and that to me, along with Sky, is what has ruined things. At least if the Cup competitions gave something to the winners (rather than the ridiculous situation of rewarding teams that finish 3rd and 4th) that might make those two (or at least one) wonderful competitions worthwhile.

good post

How does that square with the fact that we have the 12th largest stadium in the premiership (17th largest in the entire country) and were able to waste £30 million (far more than most clubs) this summer?

8th highest spenders in Europe - £37m I think

as for our fans being more passionate than any others, do me a favour?

It's a very big step up to the Premiership and we have tripped up on it. We are miles away from the likes of Everton, Spurs, Newcastle, and not even in the same league as those at the top of the table. We may have spent £30m but that's less than a third of what's needed to buy a Premiership team. What we have are a load of players who are of upper Championship standard. I was pleased that we won a lot last season but hardly jumping for joy over the prospect of this because all I could foresee was regular embarrassing thrashings.

It's only rubbish as we are screwing it up. If we were say 12th in the table playing good football. All talk of Europe and stadium expansions would be rife

No one would be complaining about the prem then. Saying we have just come up and setting ourselves up for an assault on te top half Etc

And it would only take a couple of good results to put us there...this whining and hand-wringing after ten games is puerile and pathetic...do we belong in the PL?

We were a founder member ffs!

Do I like the way it has evolved is another question but there's no question that our right to be in it is as great as any other club that wins enough games to be there.

This agreeing with you DD, I know you don't think we're currently not good enough to stay up but your point about the fragility of the argument is well made.

The PL has changed massively since we were last in it, and even then we struggled most seasons. We simply dont have the infrastructure, money, and most importantly, the mindset as fans and club for the PL. Our fans are loyal, passionate, and not fair-weather. Yes, I frequently pull a massive strop and portray everything as negative, but I love this club of ours and could never follow another; its just an emotional, perhaps even childish outburst in response to events. I swear that we care more about our club than most PL teams, and I couldnt give a sh*t waht the media portrays about fanaticism from clubs like Newcastle.

Typical ignorant rubbish.

At the Dell we didn't have the resources. We do at St. Mary's. From 2000 onwards into our time at St. Mary's until we got relegated we finished 10th, 11th, 8th and 12th, with attendances around the top 10 or 12 clubs in the division. A brilliant academy and excellent facilities all round. "Don't have the infrastructure"? Clueless. Utterly clueless.

We are a work in progress in transition into the PL. Just like moving into a new house, it doesn't feel like home just yet. A couple of wins and a bit of confidence and we'll be fine. Too soon to be getting rid of Adkins. We need stability, and NA is capable of turning things around - just believe in him.

If Stoke and Fulham are Premiership clubs, so are we.

What we need is a change of tactics and QUICK.

Our defence (as you identified Alpine) was woefully neglected in the summer.

Truth is we started the seaon without a Number One goalkeeper and settled back four.

Criminal with a capital F!

And not putting it right will probably cost us Premiership status.

I would agree that we may not have the players but to say we do not belong in the PL when Stoke, Norwich, West Ham, Swansea etc do I think is just a reaction to where we are in the league. My view is that Adkins is not smart enough in the PL. Big Sam knows it so well and knows how to get the best out of his team in this league. I think that NA will be going soon and that will be sad but a must.

Typical ignorant rubbish.

 

At the Dell we didn't have the resources. We do at St. Mary's. From 2000 onwards into our time at St. Mary's until we got relegated we finished 10th, 11th, 8th and 12th, with attendances around the top 10 or 12 clubs in the division. A brilliant academy and excellent facilities all round. "Don't have the infrastructure"? Clueless. Utterly clueless.

Why cant you discuss sensibly without all the inflammatory rubbish ? Now I know where the phrase "shouting down" is coming from.

I dont think it is clueless or ignorant. Back when we were in the PL at The Dell, the PL was a totally different beast and less money obsessed. You are comparing apples and elephants.

So we spent 30m this season. The top teams are spending many times more than that, before you even start thinking about wage bills.

We have a PL-representative stadium, and a competitve academy. The rest of the infrastrucutre and operation is championship level at best. Les Reed is heading up our scouting network, FFS. I'd rather have Lord Baden Powell, and hes dead.

And as for the snide comment above about me wanting prawn-sandwich-munching fans, the person who posted it has just about mis-interpreted what I meant about as far as he could. I meant our fans are TOO GOOD for the Premiership, where the fans are all middle-class wideboys and only sing when they are winning.

Oh, and this thread is NOT inspired by our performance so far this season and our table position.

I had my doubts during the summer, and said so on a couple of occasions. Our predicament now is just supporting evidence for my feeling.

Why cant you discuss sensibly without all the inflammatory rubbish ? Now I know where the phrase "shouting down" is coming from.

Take a look in the mirror.

I dont think it is clueless or ignorant.

Back when we were in the PL at The Dell, the PL was a totally different beast and less money obsessed. You are comparing apples and elephants.

You've entirely misunderstood my point. I referred to our time at St. Mary's when we were in the PL; when the resources available to us as a club took a massive upturn from previously at the Dell.

So we spent 30m this season. The top teams are spending many times more than that, before you even start thinking about wage bills.

 

We have a PL-representative stadium, and a competitve academy. The rest of the infrastrucutre and operation is championship level at best. Les Reed is heading up our scouting network, FFS. I'd rather have Lord Baden Powell, and hes dead.

What have the top teams got to do with it? you said we're not a PL club; yet we're the 7th highest spenders in Europe.

What "rest of our operation" is Championship level at best? If not the stadium, the training ground,a nd our academy.

Stoke

Fulham

WBA

Swansea

Wigan

Reading

Norwich

QPR

Everton

Aston Villa

All current premier league clubs it's arguable that we are bigger than or this forum has told us we are bigger than. That's half the current premier league.

Take a look in the mirror.

 

You may not think it; I wholeheartedly think it is.

 

 

 

You've entirely misunderstood my point. I didn't mention the Dell. I mentioned St. Mary's when we were in the PL; when the resources available to us as a club took a massive upturn from previously at the Dell.

 

 

 

What have the top teams got to do with it? you said we're not a PL club; yet we're the 7th highest spenders in Europe.

 

What "rest of our operation" is Championship level at best? If not the stadium, the training ground,a nd our academy.

Clearly, you are having some sort of brain-fart this morning. You did mention The Dell. I cant be bothered with the rest, you are clearly just after an argument.

Stoke

Fulham

WBA

Swansea

Wigan

Reading

Norwich

QPR

Everton

Aston Villa

 

All current premier league clubs it's arguable that we are bigger than or this forum has told us we are bigger than. That's half the current premier league.

Bigger than Villa, Everton, Fulham, Stoke ?

Come on Turkish, FFS, be serious.

Clearly, you are having some sort of brain-fart this morning. You did mention The Dell. I cant be bothered with the rest, you are clearly just after an argument.

I amended it. You misunderstood my point completely. I said our time in the PL at St. Mary's, when we moved from the Dell and experienced a massive upturn in resources available, and finished in the mid-table positions listed. Your whole concept is massively flawed in fact.

Bigger than Villa, Everton, Fulham, Stoke ?

 

Come on Turkish, FFS, be serious.

We are bigger than Fulham and Stoke. Dont you remember MLG saying we were bigger than Everton and Villa?

I amended it. You misunderstood my point completely. I said our time in the PL at St. Mary's, when we moved from the Dell and experienced a massive upturn in resources available, and finished in the mid-table positions listed. Your whole concept is massively flawed in fact.

Whatever.

Whatever.

I'm glad you agree you were wrong.

I'm glad you agree you were wrong.

No, I just wrote that I dont give a flying f**k about the frothing drivel you write any more.

No, I just wrote that I dont give a flying f**k about the frothing drivel you write any more.

Ha ha ha!! Mr Angry strikes again!

What was it you said? Oh yes. "Why cant you discuss sensibly without all the inflammatory rubbish?"

So sadly lacking in self-awareness.

Ha ha ha!! Mr Angry strikes again!

 

What was it you said? Oh yes. "Why cant you discuss sensibly without all the inflammatory rubbish?"

So sadly lacking in self-awareness.

No, just a slight reaction to your persistent trolling.

Expressing my reaction to your codswallop, not attacking you. Completely different and not suprised you cant see the difference.

Anyhoo, you can have the last word you are so desperate for.

no, i just wrote that i dont give a flying f**k about the frothing drivel you write any more.

calm down dear!

No, just a slight reaction to your persistent trolling.

 

Anyhoo, you can have the last word you are so desperate for.

No no, I'll allow you that. If nothing else, to get this reactionary thread somewhere close to track. here you go, if you want to stand by what you said (if you don't, just carry on ignoring it).

Its fairly clear we have a stadium of PL quality and size, a training ground of PL quality and size (and getting better) and a stunningly good academy. Given that, What "rest of our operation" is Championship level at best? If not the stadium, the training ground, and our academy (which I'd hazard a guess are pretty important things when considering if a club's infrastructure is of PL level).

Bigger than Villa, Everton, Fulham, Stoke ?

 

Come on Turkish, FFS, be serious.

We are bigger than Fulham and Stoke but smaller than Villa and Everton

No no, I'll allow you that. If nothing else, to get this reactionary thread somewhere close to track. here you go, if you want to stand by what you said (if you don't, just carry on ignoring it).

 

Its fairly clear we have a stadium of PL quality and size, a training ground of PL quality and size (and getting better) and a stunningly good academy. Given that, What "rest of our operation" is Championship level at best? If not the stadium, the training ground, and our academy (which I'd hazard a guess are pretty important things when considering if a club's infrastructure is of PL level).

Oh, go on then....

The people ?

The decision making ?

The scouting ?

The contract negotiations (were we so desperate to get GULY to renew that he has a "must play" clause) ?

The non-playing employee relations ?

I could go on...

We are bigger than Fulham and Stoke but smaller than Villa and Everton

Why are we ?

Who judges ?

What criteria ?

Its all f**king subjective.

What is "big" anyway ?

Why are we ?

 

Who judges ?

 

What criteria ?

 

Its all f**king subjective.

 

What is "big" anyway ?

Who is the bigger club. West Ham or Doncaster?

Who is the bigger club. West Ham or Doncaster?

Thats like me saying "Who is bigger, Manchester United or Stalybridge Celtic ?"

anyone can take two extremes to give a ball-achingly obvious example.

Oh, go on then....

 

The people ?

 

The decision making ?

 

The scouting ?

 

The contract negotiations (were we so desperate to get GULY to renew that he has a "must play" clause) ?

 

The non-playing employee relations ?

 

I could go on...

The people? I don't get what you mean. if you mean the players; I disagree, I think we should have enough ability to stay up. Les Reed and the manager; that's another story and I've come around to the thinking they need to be replaced with PL quality. Which our infrastructure would quite easily allow us to do.

Decision making; well that's not really an infrastructure is it? And goes back to people. Who can easily be replaced.

Scouting? What are you saying here; that the extent of our scouting network is Championship level? That the players we've brought in haven't been fit for purpose? Our problem with transfers this summer was that we neglected to strengthen in the right areas; the players we did bring in are largely of PL quality.

Guly must-play clause??!! Really?? Where was this clause when he didn't make the 18 against Arsenal? or when he made the bench but didn't come on against Villa and Everton? Delving into wanton speculation tehre I feel.

Thats like me saying "Who is bigger, Manchester United or Stalybridge Celtic ?"

 

anyone can take two extremes to give a ball-achingly obvious example.

But what criteria so you use to judge? Why are West Ham bigger?

Seriously. This thread, great entertainment.

But what criteria so you use to judge? Why are West Ham bigger?

My point exactly. But do you deny WHam are "bigger" ?

I think it is not easy to compare us with the likes of Stoke, Norwich, Fulham, and confidently conclude either way.

Oh, go on then....

 

The people ?

 

The decision making ?

 

The scouting ?

 

The contract negotiations (were we so desperate to get GULY to renew that he has a "must play" clause) ?

 

The non-playing employee relations ?

 

I could go on...

So based on that would be be fair to say the club does belong in the premier league and does have the infrastructure to be there, but some of the people at the top dont or aren't able to?

My point exactly. But do you deny WHam are "bigger" ?

 

I think it is not easy to compare us with the likes of Stoke, Norwich, Fulham, and confidently conclude either way.

I asked you a question. What criteria do you apply to decide if Wesh Ham are bigger than Doncaster? They were in the same divison only last season.

And if your not confident to conclude we are bigger than Stoke, Norwich, Fulham than is it fair to say we are of similar size to them and therefore they also dont belong in the premier league?

So based on that would be be fair to say the club does belong in the premier league and does have the infrastructure to be there, but some of the people at the top dont or aren't able to?

That would be an entirely fair supposition IMO.