View Poll Results: Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

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  • Leave Before - Leave Now

    27 19.42%
  • Leave Before - Remain Now

    8 5.76%
  • Leave Before - Not Bothered Now

    2 1.44%
  • Remain Before - Remain Now

    81 58.27%
  • Remain Before - Leave Now

    5 3.60%
  • Remain Before - Not Bothered Now

    0 0%
  • Not Bothered Before - Leave Now

    2 1.44%
  • Not Bothered Before - Remain Now

    4 2.88%
  • I've never been bothered - Why am I on this Thread?

    2 1.44%
  • No second Ref - 2016 was Definitive and Binding

    8 5.76%
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Thread: Brexit - Enter at Your Own Risk

  1. #14101

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    Yeah, you're both appalling humans. Take it somewhere else.

    I remember only too well your interminable arguments with fellow posters on Sotonians. As appalling humans go, your online persona leaves a lot to be desired mate.

  2. #14102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    Bang on

    In which you will have no problem in finding quotes where I have said that Boycott is definitely innocent then will you.

  3. #14103

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    I wasn’t defending Boycott. I was questioning the evidence. Two very different things.
    I thought you put the argument well, and was interested in your experience

  4. #14104

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    I wasn’t defending Boycott. I was questioning the evidence. Two very different things.
    You mean like those questioning the Ched Evans verdict were doing? But that made them rape apologists?

  5. #14105

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldNick View Post
    I thought you put the argument well, and was interested in your experience
    Thank you Nick. Having been caught in that situation I do have some sympathy. In a situation where it is one word against another you look for something that will support specifically one version of events. The magistrate recently spoke about how she was sure he was guilty but spent most of the article talking about how obnoxious Boycott was in court. I was wondering if that worked against him rather than the strength of the evidence. The pictures didn’t look good but was there a doctors examination report? If there was did it explicitly rule out the injuries being caused by a fall? Anyway, it doesn’t matter what I say or how I say it, there are people on here just looking to score cheap points and when pressed can’t deliver.

    Back to Brexit. So Johnson is saying that progress is being made and he is confident of a deal, which seems to contradict what the EU are saying. He also says that he is intent on leaving without a deal if necessary on 31st Oct. Given that Parliament have voted against leaving without a deal, are we now living in a Dictatorship?

  6. Default

    I think it's about time that some clarity is needed in exactly what the Government and Parliament's roles are, as some people on here actually think Parliament runs things.

    What does the Government do?

    • The Government is responsible for deciding how the country is run and for managing things, day to day.
      They set taxes, choose what to spend public money on and decide how best to deliver public services. While many government powers have been delegated to the devolved institutions in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, only the UK Government can speak on behalf of the UK and represent us abroad.

    • What does Parliament do?
      Parliament’s job is to look closely at the Government’s plans and to monitor the way they are running things.
      Government ministers are required to come to Parliament regularly to answer questions, respond to issues raised in debates and keep both Houses informed of any important decisions they take. In this way, Parliament can hold the Government to account for its actions.
    Currently, my feeling is that Johnson should, in private, tell Parliament and the EU to jog on, while giving the public impression he gives a $h!t what either of those corrupt, self serving, undemocratic, pig sties wants....

  7. #14107

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post

    Back to Brexit. So Johnson is saying that progress is being made and he is confident of a deal, which seems to contradict what the EU are saying. He also says that he is intent on leaving without a deal if necessary on 31st Oct. Given that Parliament have voted against leaving without a deal, are we now living in a Dictatorship?
    What the most determined remainers and MP's dont seem to grasp is that Boris says no deal and the Eu say Non, but do either really mean it?
    We are dealing with cunning negotiators and the EU have more experience doing negotiations as we left them to do all the trade deals. Therefore we have to go to the table letting believe that we might walk. Taking away the no deal fear from the table without getting something in return would be a bad move

  8. #14108

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    I think it's about time that some clarity is needed in exactly what the Government and Parliament's roles are........

    "In this way, Parliament can hold the Government to account for its actions."
    Which is exactly what they are doing. It's the price that Boris has to pay for having a 'majority' of -41.

  9. #14109

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldNick View Post
    What the most determined remainers and MP's dont seem to grasp is that Boris says no deal and the Eu say Non, but do either really mean it?
    We are dealing with cunning negotiators and the EU have more experience doing negotiations as we left them to do all the trade deals. Therefore we have to go to the table letting believe that we might walk. Taking away the no deal fear from the table without getting something in return would be a bad move
    But if they don't believe we would actually leave with no deal, the threat is moot.

  10. #14110

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldNick View Post
    What the most determined remainers and MP's dont seem to grasp is that Boris says no deal and the Eu say Non, but do either really mean it?
    We are dealing with cunning negotiators and the EU have more experience doing negotiations as we left them to do all the trade deals. Therefore we have to go to the table letting believe that we might walk. Taking away the no deal fear from the table without getting something in return would be a bad move
    But they know no-deal is worse for us and they know we know that, so it's not really much of the threat.

    The bottom line is the fact that the integrity of the common market is more important to them that a free trade deal.

  11. #14111

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    But if they don't believe we would actually leave with no deal, the threat is moot.
    but they dont as Boris is like Trump and is hard to read. Take away that option and we will never know how much they do worry.

  12. #14112

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    But they know no-deal is worse for us and they know we know that, so it's not really much of the threat.

    The bottom line is the fact that the integrity of the common market is more important to them that a free trade deal.
    I agree it is political for the EU, not necessarily for economics. They want to punish us to stop others doing the same

  13. #14113

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldNick View Post
    I agree it is political for the EU, not necessarily for economics. They want to punish us to stop others doing the same
    Not unreasonable in the circumstances. These countries have always been a lot more committed than us anyway, but why make it easy for anyone to walk away? As for leaving with no deal, how does that work? At some point we are going to have to find a desk with the EU. Surely just walking away just prolongs the inevitable and gives us all kinds of grief in the meantime?

  14. #14114

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldNick View Post
    but they dont as Boris is like Trump and is hard to read. Take away that option and we will never know how much they do worry.
    What I still don't get is what deal we are trying to get with these threats of No deal? Unless there is an alternative to the backstop - that no-one has come up with yet - there is no better deal (IE the status quo) than what the WA gives us.

  15. #14115

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldNick View Post
    but they dont as Boris is like Trump and is hard to read. Take away that option and we will never know how much they do worry.
    You think that he has an as yet unrevealed solution to the hard border/backstop discussion that he is going to bring out at the last minute? I can see no clear reason for this at all and not openly putting forward his solution would be counter productive. It appears more likely that he has nothing. I get the impression that his determination to leave quickly without having solved any of the problems is more to do with his own determination to have delivered Brexit for his own legacy. If he really cared about how brexit turned out, he would take the time to find solutions rather than just posturing. Brexit is his "wall" and he has to make it happen or lose face, whether it's for the best or not.

  16. #14116

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldNick View Post
    I agree it is political for the EU, not necessarily for economics. They want to punish us to stop others doing the same
    It's OK Boris is confident and it is "the easiest trade deal in history" so he's bound to come back with a great deal.

  17. #14117

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    If anyone wants to be simultaneously amused and appalled, check out Rupert Lowe's Twitter.

    It's a hideous Brexit Frankenstein.

  18. #14118

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    It's OK Boris is confident and it is "the easiest trade deal in history" so he's bound to come back with a great deal.
    A serial liar who spouts utter b*llox is obviously the best person to conduct vital negotiations.

  19. #14119

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    It seems that Boris has cancelled a conference after being heckled by anti Brexit campaigners. Lightweight.

  20. #14120

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    Just watched Johnson's interview with Laura Kuenssberg. What a car crash. He just isn't capable of giving any kind of proper answers to anything. Just keeps waffling on about being positive. He's a f*cking embarrassment of a PM.

  21. #14121

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheaf Saint View Post
    Just watched Johnson's interview with Laura Kuenssberg. What a car crash. He just isn't capable of giving any kind of proper answers to anything. Just keeps waffling on about being positive. He's a f*cking embarrassment of a PM.
    It wasn’t great was it. Yet he will hoover up a number of votes because of his position on leaving the EU come what may at the end of October. Where we go from there God only knows, he doesn’t seem to have a clue.

  22. #14122

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    Did anybody hear Lucy Harris, the Brexit Party MEP, getting destroyed by Stephen Nolan on Radio 5 last night ? She failed to answer any of his questions, including;

    How many UK citizens live in the EU?
    What percentage of our food comes from the EU?
    What food would be most affected in the event of a no deal Brexit?
    What happens to the EHIC in the event of a no deal Brexit ?
    What will happen to pensions and benefits for UK citizens that remain the EU after Brexit?

    She set out to attack Kay Burley and media bias, and ended up complaining that the questions were hypothetical and needed to be addressed after we have left, and the BBC hadn't briefed her about the questions she would be asked. ( Most of her expectations were that because the EU are 'very good friends to us', she doesn't see why the EU wouldn't be generous to us and give us a good deal ).

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0008gjb ( starts at 46 minutes and runs for 14 minutes )

  23. Default

    Pound on track for longest winning streak since January as no-deal fears fade.
    Just sayin'

  24. #14124

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    Just sayin'
    What exactly are you sayin' ?

    If it is to boast about the strength of the pound on the prospect of a Brexit deal then you really need your head examining.

    Compare where the pound was the night before the referendum and where it is now and you can see how Brexit has trashed our currency.

    They really do make them thick at Pompey Poly don't they.

  25. #14125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    What exactly are you sayin' ?

    If it is to boast about the strength of the pound on the prospect of a Brexit deal then you really need your head examining.

    Compare where the pound was the night before the referendum and where it is now and you can see how Brexit has trashed our currency.

    They really do make them thick at Pompey Poly don't they.
    Remember this is the same chump who’s been railing against parliament and remainiac traitors for blocking no-deal; yet it’s that very act that has driven the rise in the £. Pompey poly’s second most famous graduate doesn’t know whether he’s coming or going. Needless to say it was pretty predictable that the pound would react favourably when the benn bill passed (and even its passing was pretty predictable once Johnson and Cummings escalated matters by proroguing Parliament).

    #quidsin

  26. #14126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    Just sayin'
    I'm confused, I though you wanted No Deal - this just proves that no deal was driving down the value of the pound, something you were trying to deny??

  27. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    Don't worry about this lot, Wes. The truth is that the EU are on the run and if we get a leader that realises that, we will get whatever deal we want. The chickens are coming home to roost for the faceless bureaucrats in the EU, from Italy, France, Bulgaria, Hungary and Germany. Their offer to extend Article 50, to avoid a no deal, shows they are sh!tt!ng one and I would be delighted if we gave them the no deal that frightens them so much. #dominoeffect
    Look back in anger, to 06-12-2018. Prescient doesn't even begin to describe the post and if we look at the OP, that will happen as well.

    Meanwhile, champagne socialists and LibDums continue to p!$$ on our flag and our democracy. Still, all those in the public sector can afford to.

  28. #14128

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    Look back in anger, to 06-12-2018. Prescient doesn't even begin to describe the post and if we look at the OP, that will happen as well.

    Meanwhile, champagne socialists and LibDums continue to p!$$ on our flag and our democracy. Still, all those in the public sector can afford to.
    No wrong on every count does pal.

  29. Default

    European Union leaders are increasingly "panicking and desperate" that Britain might leave the EU without a deal, Iain Duncan Smith says today.

  30. Default

    The British team believes that if Northern Ireland agrees to align with some EU animal health rules, then a combination of ‘trusted trader’ schemes, computerised customs declarations and political goodwill will enable the UK to leave the EU “whole and entire” on October 31 with an independent trade policy.

  31. #14131

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    "The European Union has rejected a request from the British government for a Brexit deal without an Irish backstop.
    Brexit secretary Stephen Barclay on Thursday said the UK should be given until the end of 2020 to come up with a replacement for the policy – instead of the end-of-September deadline set by EU leaders.

    The minister travelled to Brussels on Friday to meet with Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator – but was told that the EU could not consider a deal that did not include a backstop or replacement.
    Following the meeting, a spokesperson for the European Commission told reporters that it is “essential that there is a fully workable and legally operational solution included in the withdrawal agreement."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9113451.html

  32. #14132

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    ....

  33. #14133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guided Missile View Post
    European Union leaders are increasingly "panicking and desperate" that Britain might leave the EU without a deal, Iain Duncan Smith says today.
    You're quoting IDS? *Facepalm*

  34. #14134

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    Prorogation is unlawful, void, and of no effect !

  35. #14135

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    The court said Johnson was, "bang out of order".

  36. #14136

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    Parliament is still in session, and it is up to the Speakers of the Lords and Commons to work out what to do next.

  37. #14137

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    So it's all unraveling for Boris then. First the EU tell him what everybody else already knew - that there is no better deal to be done that the one already negotiated with May - and now the prorogation that he instigated in order to try and force through a no-deal exit has been ruled unlawful.

    I wonder if he will appeal this decision to the ECJ now? That would be the most delicious irony if he did.

  38. #14138

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    This is extremely significant but I worry about how the loony fringe will react to this. I predict a doubling-down of xenophobic, divisive, misleading guff designed to appeal to the base elements of the leave argument.

    We need an election and we need rid of the swivel-eyes in the Tory party.

    Unfortunately, the alternative is also pretty swivel-eyed.

    We need a cross-party government and a further vote on Brexit.

  39. #14139

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    This is extremely significant but I worry about how the loony fringe will react to this. I predict a doubling-down of xenophobic, divisive, misleading guff designed to appeal to the base elements of the leave argument.

    We need an election and we need rid of the swivel-eyes in the Tory party.

    Unfortunately, the alternative is also pretty swivel-eyed.

    We need a cross-party government and a further vote on Brexit.
    I agree entirely. The Daily Mail will undoubtedly dust off their Hitler inspired headline of the judges being the "enemies of the people".

    How on earth do we get the cross party government that we so desperately need??

  40. #14140

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    This is extremely significant but I worry about how the loony fringe will react to this. I predict a doubling-down of xenophobic, divisive, misleading guff designed to appeal to the base elements of the leave argument.

    We need an election and we need rid of the swivel-eyes in the Tory party.

    Unfortunately, the alternative is also pretty swivel-eyed.

    We need a cross-party government and a further vote on Brexit.
    I agree with you on all points here. We have a non-functioning government and a completely ineffectual opposition to replace them. What we actually need is not just a fresh GE, but a complete, top-down reorganisation of our political system, to ensure that this kind of f*ckery never happens again.

    Maybe it's time to merge all of these threads and re-name it "The absolute f*cking state of British politics".

  41. #14141

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    Boris should try the European Court of Justice, see if he can get this judgement overturned.

  42. #14142

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    I don't think this is something the ECJ can rule on, no matter how funny that would be. This is nothing to do with application of EU law.

  43. #14143

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    This is extremely significant but I worry about how the loony fringe will react to this. I predict a doubling-down of xenophobic, divisive, misleading guff designed to appeal to the base elements of the leave argument.

    We need an election and we need rid of the swivel-eyes in the Tory party.

    Unfortunately, the alternative is also pretty swivel-eyed.

    We need a cross-party government and a further vote on Brexit.
    It has already begun: https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1176439351640825856

  44. #14144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Armstrong View Post
    Wrong link!

    I meant this one: https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/statu...42040885944320

  45. #14145

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheaf Saint View Post
    So it's all unraveling for Boris then. First the EU tell him what everybody else already knew - that there is no better deal to be done that the one already negotiated with May - and now the prorogation that he instigated in order to try and force through a no-deal exit has been ruled unlawful.

    I wonder if he will appeal this decision to the ECJ now? That would be the most delicious irony if he did.
    Ish - ECJ is not attached to the EU and would still be the highest court after we leave the EU.

  46. #14146

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    I don't think this is something the ECJ can rule on, no matter how funny that would be. This is nothing to do with application of EU law.
    Shame. Would have been funny.

  47. #14147

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    Ish - ECJ is not attached to the EU and would still be the highest court after we leave the EU.
    Are you sure about that?

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...f_justice.html

    The European Court of Justice (ECJ) is the judicial institution of the European Union. This means that it deals with disputes between parties as the courts do in Ireland. The ECJ has the important function of ensuring that European law is interpreted and applied in the same way in every member state. It sits in Luxembourg and is composed of 28 judges, one judge from each member state.
    For clarity - I accept that my comment was flippant, as I'm aware that this morning's Supreme Court ruling is not something that can be challenged in the ECJ.

  48. #14148

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheaf Saint View Post
    Are you sure about that?

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...f_justice.html



    For clarity - I accept that my comment was flippant, as I'm aware that this morning's Supreme Court ruling is not something that can be challenged in the ECJ.
    Do you know what, this is my bad, I was thinking of ECHR.

  49. #14149

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    The No Deal dream team of Dominic Cummings and Boris Johnson just lost 11-0.
    It seems that the hedge funds and US healthcare corporations backed the Chuckle Brothers.

    As for Johnson, this is not news, he's been lying all his life - this is the first time someone has bothered to take him to the supreme court.

  50. #14150

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    This is extremely significant but I worry about how the loony fringe will react to this. I predict a doubling-down of xenophobic, divisive, misleading guff designed to appeal to the base elements of the leave argument.

    We need an election and we need rid of the swivel-eyes in the Tory party.

    Unfortunately, the alternative is also pretty swivel-eyed.

    We need a cross-party government and a further vote on Brexit.
    This.

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