Pinnacle

[Thedelldays]

has lynham given us any of his updates....

 

do we yet know how MLT and Crouch got suckered in..?

[Cheeky Monkey]

Yes.

 

Black Magic.

[Matthew Le God]

You can check Tony's posts in his profile.

 

Tony and Matt are friends. No evidence Crouch was involved financially.

[dubai_phil]

PR, spin and plants from Day One, but this time round seems like not only this place fell for it, so did Fry

[The9]

You can check Tony's posts in his profile.

 

Tony and Matt are friends. No evidence Crouch was involved financially.

 

Wasn't Crouch named on the list of directors submitted to the FA/FL ?

[Matthew Le God]

Wasn't Crouch named on the list of directors submitted to the FA/FL ?

 

Rumour and speculation, no evidence for that.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

has lynham given us any of his updates.....

 

Maybe we have to wait until we are bought before the 'truth' comes out about Pinnacle, I would just ask Why ?

A local businessman would not damage his reputation if as DP suggests it was just spin, would he ? which then begs the question what was it all for ?

[saint_stevo]

Dear All,

 

Found a car on e-bay, really liked it, lined up a loan with alliance and Leicester to buy the thing. Went to see it, liked it and told the owners how much i liked it, tyres were very firm on my Dr Martens. Said i would be back to buy shortly.

 

Alliance and Leicester don't seem to want to lend me the money now, they think it is taking too long. Have asked a mate who lives with his parents if i can borrow some of his pocket money. Don't worry, i WILL be buying that car.

 

Yours

 

TL

[dubai_phil]

Maybe we have to wait until we are bought before the 'truth' comes out about Pinnacle, I would just ask Why ?

A local businessman would not damage his reputation if as DP suggests it was just spin, would he ? which then begs the question what was it all for ?

 

Just for the record, I have no doubts that when they set out, Pinnacle had backing. Fry would never have let them through the door.

 

However, it seemed odd that while (most) others remained professional and silent, Pinnacle conducted all their work in the public eye.

 

While it is not "fair" to label Farmer as a "Plant" he, and others who posted on here "In Good Faith" did have a (probably to them) unwitting media management impact in helping to sway public opinion behind Pinnacle.

As did the "interesting" sudden arrival of virulent "anti anybody else" posters at the time.

 

It is publci record that after looking at the BT internal Due Dilligence information 3 of the 4 investors pulled out, (TBF IF people could have actually took a closer look at the figures for last year and the cash flow forecasts, many fans and investors would have had to take a deep breath.)

 

The issue with Pinnacle is that having lost 3 backers, they sailed into battle with one, and doubts remained in my mind at the time (and now clearly to everyone else) as to how committed that one person was to the project.

 

The media management campaign made it VERY difficult for anyone to question them or their structure. Was Fry taken in by this as well?

He granted their exclusivity allegedly less than 72 hours after informing a rival group that no other bidders were at the table, and allegedly about 48 hours after having an argument with the legal team of a rival bid regarding a clause in the exclusivity agreement.

 

IMHO I think that the spin, plants and media management played a role in them getting as far as they did. I doubt they ever really had their final remaining moneyman nailed down on a contract and had hoped that the DD process would either cement that relationship or provide an alternative backer.

 

In the end, the reality was that TL was left standing up in public as naked as MJ in the Bournemouth fiasco.

The only differences were that TL had a spell checker, and didn't try and talk about Football on TV but instead offered his wealthy backer to the press, the result was the same, wasted time.

 

The lesson for everyone on this?

If you want to buy a football club -

1) STFU

2) Have EVERYTHING nailed down in contracts BEFORE you start talking

 

(However that is really not that easy to do in reality!)

[John B]

Just for the record, I have no doubts that when they set out, Pinnacle had backing. Fry would never have let them through the door.

 

However, it seemed odd that while (most) others remained professional and silent, Pinnacle conducted all their work in the public eye.

 

While it is not "fair" to label Farmer as a "Plant" he, and others who posted on here "In Good Faith" did have a (probably to them) unwitting media management impact in helping to sway public opinion behind Pinnacle.

As did the "interesting" sudden arrival of virulent "anti anybody else" posters at the time.

 

It is publci record that after looking at the BT internal Due Dilligence information 3 of the 4 investors pulled out, (TBF IF people could have actually took a closer look at the figures for last year and the cash flow forecasts, many fans and investors would have had to take a deep breath.)

 

The issue with Pinnacle is that having lost 3 backers, they sailed into battle with one, and doubts remained in my mind at the time (and now clearly to everyone else) as to how committed that one person was to the project.

 

The media management campaign made it VERY difficult for anyone to question them or their structure. Was Fry taken in by this as well?

He granted their exclusivity allegedly less than 72 hours after informing a rival group that no other bidders were at the table, and allegedly about 48 hours after having an argument with the legal team of a rival bid regarding a clause in the exclusivity agreement.

 

IMHO I think that the spin, plants and media management played a role in them getting as far as they did. I doubt they ever really had their final remaining moneyman nailed down on a contract and had hoped that the DD process would either cement that relationship or provide an alternative backer.

 

In the end, the reality was that TL was left standing up in public as naked as MJ in the Bournemouth fiasco.

The only differences were that TL had a spell checker, and didn't try and talk about Football on TV but instead offered his wealthy backer to the press, the result was the same, wasted time.

 

The lesson for everyone on this?

If you want to buy a football club -

1) STFU

2) Have EVERYTHING nailed down in contracts BEFORE you start talking

 

(However that is really not that easy to do in reality!)

 

There was also a quote from somewhere that the Swiss did not feel comfortable with their bid as with all the PR from Pinnacle saying MLT would be chairman their bid would not be acceptable to the fans.

 

Their bid was also thought to be less than Pinnacles

[SaintDonkey]

I still believe Tony was genuine, just that as various investors dropped out his eagerness to continue going forwards meant that perhaps he didn't check the credentials of the remaining consortium members as thoroughly as he might.

[dubai_phil]

There was also a quote from somewhere that the Swiss did not feel comfortable with their bid as with all the PR from Pinnacle saying MLT would be chairman their bid would not be acceptable to the fans.

 

Their bid was also thought to be less than Pinnacles

 

Ah yes, but was the bid less than Pinnacle's or was it less than......

 

Have mentioned before that the structure is the thing, it is possible to bid more than Pinnacle but still not get acceptance.

 

Was IMHO probably in all likelihood the difference between CASH and Deferrals.

 

So if Pinnacle bid 12.3mil cash and the Swiss bid 12mil cash Pinnacle would win as the deal is better for the creditors

 

But IF Swiss bid 12mil and offered to pay (for example) Aviva an extra million a year for 5 years when we get back to the PL, the Swiss bid becomes 17mil and better for the creditors.

 

However, Fry would still stick with the cash figure.

 

Never as easy as it all seems

 

But your post again shows how the PR swayed decision making. Just imagine OUR reaction 4 weeks ago if some secret Johnny Foreigner had kicked MLT into touch... HOW many ST's would have been sold???

[Thedelldays]

But your post again shows how the PR swayed decision making. Just imagine OUR reaction 4 weeks ago if some secret Johnny Foreigner had kicked MLT into touch... HOW many ST's would have been sold???

the meat and veg of it all

[Ashby Saint]

Dear All,

 

Found a car on e-bay, really liked it, lined up a loan with alliance and Leicester to buy the thing. Went to see it, liked it and told the owners how much i liked it, tyres were very firm on my Dr Martens. Said i would be back to buy shortly.

 

Alliance and Leicester don't seem to want to lend me the money now, they think it is taking too long. Have asked a mate who lives with his parents if i can borrow some of his pocket money. Don't worry, i WILL be buying that car.

 

Yours

 

TL

 

LOL

[John B]

 

But your post again shows how the PR swayed decision making. Just imagine OUR reaction 4 weeks ago if some secret Johnny Foreigner had kicked MLT into touch... HOW many ST's would have been sold???

 

Yes my main point was the publicity and MLT which I think is a realistic point of not putting much effort into the bid

 

The finances are only heresay

[The9]

Rumour and speculation, no evidence for that.

 

I'm assuming that the evidence would be the list of directors, if not a few bank transfers.

 

I haven't actaully seen any Swiss people in the process of buying Saints yet but I've got a pretty good idea it's going on...

[Noodles34]

I'm assuming that the evidence would be the list of directors, if not a few bank transfers.

 

I haven't actaully seen any Swiss people in the process of buying Saints yet but I've got a pretty good idea it's going on...

 

ITK by any chance?

[saint_stevo]

The9? ITK? Hope he put the phone up to his good ear then......

[Frank's cousin]

A note on the 'backers pulling out' from DP - with respect to the financial forecasts - I cant remember who said it, possibly TL, but there ws a very early quaote in which it was hinted that although the backers would be prepared to stem teh tide short term, they expected teh club to be self financing within a very short period of time.. Given our league position and the prospects of crowds beteen 13-15k next season, and with teh overeads and cost of sales not being vastly reduced without players sales which is teh classic vicious circle - poorer quality players, worse results less attendance, its not surprizing really. Any new owner has to be realistic, that they need to be prepared to risk substantial sums if they want to see a return eventually by seeing us return to the prem. So maybe the foolhardy attempt at getting the -10 points potentially overturned WAS necessary to satisfy the biggest acker who was simply not prepared to take the risk from taht starting position...??

[tpbury]

Why can't MLT team up with Liebherr - it's not a problem is it? He's a figurehead, don't really matter who's behind him.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I think the real truth with Pinnacle (names and all) needs and will be told (and I am getting there) but Saints need to be taken over first.

[saint_stevo]

you go FF

[thorpie the sinner]

I think the real truth with Pinnacle (names and all) needs and will be told (and I am getting there) but Saints need to be taken over first.

 

Looking forward to it FF, that 4 week period could have killed us!

[Wade Garrett]

Looking forward to it FF, that 4 week period could have killed us!

 

I think that was the skate's plan.

[hugh]

I think the real truth with Pinnacle (names and all) needs and will be told (and I am getting there) but Saints need to be taken over first.

 

There is enough material from the last three or four years of the Saints Saga for at least four books from Hagiology!

[Toadhall Saint]

I think the real truth with Pinnacle (names and all) needs and will be told (and I am getting there) but Saints need to be taken over first.

 

Can I proof read it for you FF?

[dubai_phil]

Why can't MLT team up with Liebherr - it's not a problem is it? He's a figurehead, don't really matter who's behind him.

 

Perhaps MLT is wiser than some give him credit for, has learnt a very painful lesson, and has decided NOT to give anyone making a bid his "exclusive" support until such time as 1) They have secured ownwership of the club and 2) Spoken with him.

 

That's not such a leap of faith as he HAS said inthe Echo that he will support ANYONE who saves the club

[OldNick]

Just for the record, I have no doubts that when they set out, Pinnacle had backing. Fry would never have let them through the door.

 

However, it seemed odd that while (most) others remained professional and silent, Pinnacle conducted all their work in the public eye.

 

While it is not "fair" to label Farmer as a "Plant" he, and others who posted on here "In Good Faith" did have a (probably to them) unwitting media management impact in helping to sway public opinion behind Pinnacle.

As did the "interesting" sudden arrival of virulent "anti anybody else" posters at the time.

 

It is publci record that after looking at the BT internal Due Dilligence information 3 of the 4 investors pulled out, (TBF IF people could have actually took a closer look at the figures for last year and the cash flow forecasts, many fans and investors would have had to take a deep breath.)

 

The issue with Pinnacle is that having lost 3 backers, they sailed into battle with one, and doubts remained in my mind at the time (and now clearly to everyone else) as to how committed that one person was to the project.

 

The media management campaign made it VERY difficult for anyone to question them or their structure. Was Fry taken in by this as well?

He granted their exclusivity allegedly less than 72 hours after informing a rival group that no other bidders were at the table, and allegedly about 48 hours after having an argument with the legal team of a rival bid regarding a clause in the exclusivity agreement.

 

IMHO I think that the spin, plants and media management played a role in them getting as far as they did. I doubt they ever really had their final remaining moneyman nailed down on a contract and had hoped that the DD process would either cement that relationship or provide an alternative backer.

 

In the end, the reality was that TL was left standing up in public as naked as MJ in the Bournemouth fiasco.

The only differences were that TL had a spell checker, and didn't try and talk about Football on TV but instead offered his wealthy backer to the press, the result was the same, wasted time.

 

The lesson for everyone on this?

If you want to buy a football club -

1) STFU

2) Have EVERYTHING nailed down in contracts BEFORE you start talking

 

(However that is really not that easy to do in reality!)

and of course when they came out of exclusivity they wheeled out 'It may be Keegan' that again bought them time as well as it would have made the Swiss hold back as they would be seen as the 'bad guys'

[dubai_phil]

I think the real truth with Pinnacle (names and all) needs and will be told (and I am getting there) but Saints need to be taken over first.

 

Which is why I'll also wait until we are safe before I answer your pm from a couple of weeks back.

 

If I was incorrect on here I apologise (see did it openly) but in mitigation I had good reason.

 

Keep digging there is a good story in this for you

[Toadhall Saint]

Perhaps MLT is wiser than some give him credit for, has learnt a very painful lesson, and has decided NOT to give anyone making a bid his "exclusive" support until such time as 1) They have secured ownwership of the club and 2) Spoken with him.

 

That's not such a leap of faith as he HAS said inthe Echo that he will support ANYONE who saves the club

 

Problem is would the Swiss approach MLT? He was taken in by TL (just as most of us were) so that in their minds (the Swiss) could look like incompetence. Me I think it makes MLT a better candidate as he has learn't so is unlikely to go down that road again.

[dubai_phil]

and of course when they came out of exclusivity they wheeled out 'It may be Keegan' that again bought them time as well as it would have made the Swiss hold back as they would be seen as the 'bad guys'

 

Which has also had an interesting side effect, we know nothing about the Swiss YET, but already "opinion" is moving in a Let's go Wilde way.

 

Personally I HOPE that this is the real deal and that we "will finally walk a League with professional, sensible, sustained development and investment"

 

Professionally, I wait for the actual facts before deciding to rush to the English Sports Bar in Baden to celebrate

[John B]

I think the real truth with Pinnacle (names and all) needs and will be told (and I am getting there) but Saints need to be taken over first.

 

I think the truth regarding not only pinnacle but also everything else regarding the club since relegation needs to be told

[Thedelldays]

I think the truth regarding not only pinnacle but also everything else regarding the club since relegation needs to be told

here here

[saint_mears]

What about that media clown Marc Jackson ? Does he go back to selling photocopiers

[slickmick]

Which has also had an interesting side effect, we know nothing about the Swiss YET, but already "opinion" is moving in a Let's go Wilde way.

 

Personally I HOPE that this is the real deal and that we "will finally walk a League with professional, sensible, sustained development and investment"

 

Professionally, I wait for the actual facts before deciding to rush to the English Sports Bar in Baden to celebrate

 

 

Agreed, but just the thought of playing next season will be enough for now.

[Clifford Nelson]

Another issue in the Pinnacle debacle I am trying to get my head around is, if I was a multimillionnaire interested in buying a football club, wouldn't I want somebody to represent me or my consortium who had experience in this field? Not wanting to disrepect TL in any way, but with his background I wouldn't have considered him as first choice. Why look for a deal maker and not for a corporate solicitor?

[INFLUENCED.COM]

I think the truth regarding not only pinnacle but also everything else regarding the club since relegation needs to be told

 

Any investigative journo would have their work cut out with that due to the many characters involved.

Will these NDA's become void once out of the process or do they remain indefinitely ? would hate for some to hide behind them

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Which is why I'll also wait until we are safe before I answer your pm from a couple of weeks back.

 

If I was incorrect on here I apologise (see did it openly) but in mitigation I had good reason.

 

Keep digging there is a good story in this for you

 

Phil - I understand why you said what you said now but I was not then in contact with the person you referred to.

 

However I am now and I think the penny has dropped.

 

Like I say lets wait until we are safe, but I think there will be repercussions.

 

No harm done as far as I am concerned.

[John B]

Another issue in the Pinnacle debacle I am trying to get my head around is, if I was a multimillionnaire interested in buying a football club, wouldn't I want somebody to represent me or my consortium who had experience in this field? Not wanting to disrepect TL in any way, but with his background I wouldn't have considered him as first choice. Why look for a deal maker and not for a corporate solicitor?

 

That I think is a very interesting point something I was thinking about too

[saint_stevo]

i think it was the other way around rather than them approaching TL

[INFLUENCED.COM]

Can we assume TL approaches MLT, says if I can get a consortium together would you back it ? TL then tells MLT we have the consortium here are their names can you open some doors and put your name to the bid ?