Player trading & finances - a rough guide .

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

With the summer transfer window now closed now might be a good time to review all recent player trading and it's financial implications . Please bare in mind the financial section does most definitely not represent properly audited accounts. This is merely my unofficial and very rough 'back of an envelope' estimate based on the limited information publicly available at this time and some educated guesswork .

 

Player Trading .

 

In :

Tommy Forecast - Transferred from Tottenham Hotspur FC as part of the G Bale 'Early Settlement' agreement . 5 year contract .

Chris Perry - Free transfer from Luton Town FC . Undisclosed contract .

Michael Svennson - Out of contract player re-signed . 1 year contract . (with an option to extend)

Paul Wotton - Bosman free transfer from Plymouth Argyle FC . 3 year contract .

Morgan Schneiderlin - Transferred from RC Strasbourg . Transfer fee 'rising to e1.5m' (£1.2m) - 4 year contract .

Lee Holmes - Bosman free transfer ex Derby County FC . Undisclosed contract .

Jack Cork - Loan transfer from Chelsea FC until 31st December 2008

Tomas Pekhart - Loan transfer from Tottenham Hotspur FC until 31st December 2008 .

Anthony Pulis - Free transfer from Stoke City FC . 2 year contract .

Romain Gasmi - Loan transfer from RC Strasbourg until end 08/09 season . (with option to purchase)

+ 10 young players have joined the Orchard Homes Saints Academy this summer .

 

Out :

Academy & Reserve Team players

Ian Jones - Released from Orchard Homes Saints Academy . Current status unknown .

Andrew Giallombardo - Released from Orchard Homes Saints Academy . Current status unknown . (USA citizen)

Matej Rondos - Released from Orchard Homes Saints Academy . Current status unknown . (Slovak Republic citizen)

Nile Ranger - Released from Orchard Homes Saints Academy . Now at Newcastle Utd FC . (U18 Reserve Team)

James Rowe - Transferred from Orchard Homes Saints Academy to Reading FC . (U17 Academy Team)

Cedric Baseya - Rejected new contract & moved to Lille OSC on Bosman free transfer . 'Youth Development' compensation being sought .

Josh Dutton-Black - Released . Now at Bognor Regis Town FC . (monthly contract)

First Team Players

Alexander Ostlund - Out of contract & released . Now at Esbjerg fB . (Denmark)

Inigo Idiakez - Out of contract & released . Now a free agent .

Jermaine Wright - Out of contract & released . Now at Blackpool FC .

Mario Licka - Out of contract & released . Now at FC Banik Ostrava . (Czech Republic)

Darren Powell - Out of contract & released . Now a free agent .

Youssef Safri - Transferred to Qatar Sports Club (never fully confirmed) . 'Agreed' transfer fee = e400k (£320k)

Marek Saganowski - On loan until 31st December 08 at AaB Aalborg (Denmark)

Claus Lundekvam - Retired from professional football . (injury related)

Chris Makin - Retired from professional football . (injury related)

Michael Poke - On season long loan at Torquay Utd . (unlikely to return)

Jhon Viafara - Contract cancelled by mutual consent . (personal reasons)

Gregorz Rasiak - On season long loan at Watford FC . (WFC have an option to purchase during Jan 09 'Transfer Window')

Andrew Davies - Transferred to Stoke City FC . Undisclosed transfer fee . (variously reported as £1.2m to £1.5m)

 

Loan players employed during 2007/8 season :

Gregory Vignal - On all season loan from RC Lens . (still at Lens )

Alan Bennett - On loan July 2007 to January 2008 from Reading FC . (now at Brentford FC on short term loan)

Andrew Davies - On loan with a view to signing full contract Oct 2007 to Jan 08 from Middlesbrough FC . Full transfer to SFC Jan 08 .

Chris Lucketti - On loan March to May 2008 from Sheffield Utd FC . (now at Huddersfield Town FC)

Richard Wright - On loan March to May 2008 from West Ham Utd FC . (now at Ipswich Town FC)

Adam Hammill - On all season loan from Liverpool FC . (now at Blackpool FC on loan until January 09)

Vincent Pericard - On loan March to May 2008 from Stoke City FC . (still at SCFC)

Christian Dailly - On loan September to November 2007 from West Ham Utd FC . (now at Glasgow Rangers FC)

Phil Ifil - On loan September to December 2007 from Tottenham Hotspur FC . (now at Colchester Utd FC)

Stephen O'Halloran - On loan January to February 2008 from Aston Villa FC . (still at AVFC after a serious injury)

Chris Perry - On loan March to May 2008 from Luton Town FC . (now on full contract at SFC)

Ian Pearce - On loan February to March 2008 from Fulham FC . (now a free agent)

 

Player Notes :

Between 31-8-07 to 1-9-08 at least 51 different players have joined and/or left the employ of SFC . (inc Loans & Academy Scholars)

Loans total approximately 40 player/months of employment - the near equivalent 3.5 players hired for a full year .

Lucien Mettomo was briefly at SFC last season . Contract cancelled by mutual consent Jan 08 . Now at Varia FC . (Greece)

Tommy Kaland (semi pro) played for SFC in Claus Lundekvam's testimonial match - not counted as proper SFC player here .

The Sky Sports website lists a 'Serge Racine' as a out of contract SFC player . No supporting reference found & assumed to be an error .

 

Financial summary .

 

Transfer Income & Expenditure : (since end 2007/8 season)

Transfer Income £1.5m Safri & Davies* transfer fees .

....."...........".....£0.2m From Liverpool FC for Peter Crouch 'Sell-On' payment . (eventually £0.5m if all contractual 'add-ons' are applied)

....."...........".....£2.5m Estimate of G Bale 'Early Settlement' payment . (From £5m)**

Other Income.....£0.5m Estimate of Loan fees received for MS & GR + Baseya Compensation .

Expenditure....(-)£0.5m Estimate of (partial) payment to RC Strasbourg for M Schneiderlin

........"..........(-)£0.3m Estimate of Loan fees payed for Gasmi/Pekhart/Cork

 

Sub Total..........£3.9m Income Generated (estimate) .

 

Wage & Other Budget Alterations : (since end 2007/8 season)

Annual saving on player wage costs. £5.1m The 16.5 (full year equivalent) departed 1st team players inc' loans @ £6k p/w ave***

Wage spending on new players ....(-)£2.1m The 10 new 1st team players @ £4k p/week ave .

Spending on new contracts .........(-)£0.3m Based on a £1k p/w pay rise for 6 young players .

Annual saving on other staff wages...£0.2m Based on 10 less SFC staff @ £20k p/a ave .

Estimate of other savings................£0.3m (cancellation of 'free' bus service / closure of corners / reduced coaching costs ..etc)

 

Sub Total.....................................£3.2m Savings Made (estimate) .

 

Grand Total = £7.1m of income & savings achieved .

 

Financial Notes :

* There may be a small 'sell-on' payment due to Middlesbrough FC resulting from the Andrew Davies transfer - not included here .

** The Early Settlement payment for Gareth Bale remains undisclosed , the number quoted is my best 'guesstimate' . The similar Early Settlement in respect of Theo Walcott & any compensation from the Scottish FA regarding George Burley are assumed to have been included in the last Trading Update and are not included here .

*** The average 26 to 32 year old CCC player earned £4,846 p/w(basic) in 2006 , I believe £6k p/w is a conservative average pay estimate for the players departed this summer . Alterations to Academy or Reserve team players (10 in & 7 out) are considered broadly cost-neutral for this purpose .

 

Observations .

 

The last Trading Update indicated that SLH will make an 'Operating Loss' of £13m before player trading & debt interest in the year ending 30th June 2008 . The £7m or so of savings and income generated this summer will clearly be insufficient to stem our monthly trading loss and further substantial player disposals/cost reductions will be necessary in due course .

 

From next season the new Sky/BBC Football League TV deal will come into effect - increasing income by £1.5m+ p/a .

 

If match day attendance were to fall by just 1000 per game this season it would cost SFC around £600k in lost income .

Edited 2 September, 2008 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[stanthemanfairoak]

From next season the new Sky/BBC Football League TV deal will come into effect - increasing income by £1.5m+ p/a .

 

If match day attendance were to fall by just 1000 per game this season it would cost SFC around £600k in lost income know what you bin doing all nite ,send a copy to rupes &gang .

[INFLUENCED.COM]

If match day attendance were to fall by just 1000 per game this season it would cost SFC around £600k in lost income .

 

Thats a smalll percentage of those staying away at present, results will get that percentage back in a heartbeat.

[fareham saint phil]

very informative post, lot of work gone into it and interesting reading

[Ewell]

Tommy Kaland (semi pro) played for SFC in Claus Lundekvam's testimonial match - not counted as proper SFC player here

 

It was a promising post until you mentioned this. How can anyone now take it seriously?

[NickG]

doubt if we are paying any loan fees to for our players, two have come from bigger clubs to develop the player (don't think we charge Bournemouth when they "develop" our youngsters?)

[Scummer]

It was a promising post until you mentioned this. How can anyone now take it seriously?

 

Why? It's only in the player notes section. If someone was to look at the players Saints have used this season, they might think 'who is this Kaland bloke?' The player notes explains it.

[polegategavin]

What I find so difficult to understand, is that we were obviously profitable in the Premiership when we played at the Dell, with gates of @ 16,000. How is it that we could pay 'Premiership wages' then and make profits, yet now we are paying well below that this season, have reduced the playing staff dramatically, yet seem to still be making big losses.

 

I understand why we made big losses during the passed 2 seasons but what worries me is that it would be almost impossible for us to break even unless we have a full stadium for every home game, and played youth players, with one or two experienced players.

 

I realise we are paying the mortgage on the stadium which has been widely reported as between £2-4m per year but this should be covered by the lower wages (and obviously the hope that the ground would be full for all home games).

 

This highlights to me more than I appreciated previously that we have actually been mis-managed since the decision was taken to build the new ground, as this was based on the theory that we would stay in the Premiership for always (with it's TV rights income) and no account was taken of whether we could afford the costs if we would be relegated.

 

Having seen Charlie's figures, which show well thought through analysis, it worries me that we can't afford to go on without investment, as it is clear that we can't make a profit in the stadium we use. If we were to fill the stadium for the remainder of the games it would generate approximately £4.5-5m extra income which still wouldn't enable us to break even this season. Very worrying............

[NickG]

sky money pushed wages up and now no sky money

[Big Ron fan]

Very informative.

 

As anyone with any business experience knows, cutting costs is the relatively easy bit of management. The difficult bit is raising revenue, particularly in difficult economic times.

 

No sign that Lowe has any plans on that front.

[Window Cleaner]

sky money pushed wages up and now no sky money

 

 

Right. I think you have to understand that Sky Money was like having an extra

25000 people in the stadium for every game (is that right 25Kx25=625x10"3"=

625Kx19=about 13 million or so. Now Sky money is about 25 million a season minimum so for the like of Derby and Stoke it puts 50000 on their gate for every single home game. How do you think Skate get by on their piddling 18 K

gates?, the in ground support pales into insignificance when you've "Sky Money".

[Ken Tone]

An excellent summary Chapel End Charlie. Thanks for the work you must have put into it.

 

As to polegategavin's questions about how we managed financially at the Dell in the premiership:-

 

a) Did we ? Transfer profits were necessary even then.

b) Vast sums from TV subsidise all premiership teams. Gates receipts are a minor part of the income of many.

c) The rate of player wage inflation is hugely above inflation for us poor mortals. Even inthe short time we've been out of the premiership, never mind since the days of the Dell, what was a premiership wage in our day is now 'peanuts'. Look at the top 4 and now Man city. It is a different world there now, not just a different league. £30+million for players who in a few years could leave for nothing on a Bosman.

 

The sooner the big , internationally owned teams, bugger off to form a european, or even world, super league the better. That might give normal league clubs like the bulk of the premiership and those in the CCC a chance to win our domestic league without them skewing it. Abramovitch was the worse thing to happen to modern football in england IMO... and now we have QPR, City etc, as well as the Arsenals and Liverpools etc.

 

K.

[Johnny Shearer]

An excellent summary Chapel End Charlie. Thanks for the work you must have put into it.

 

As to polegategavin's questions about how we managed financially at the Dell in the premiership:-

 

a) Did we ? Transfer profits were necessary even then.

b) Vast sums from TV subsidise all premiership teams. Gates receipts are a minor part of the income of many.

c) The rate of player wage inflation is hugely above inflation for us poor mortals. Even inthe short time we've been out of the premiership, never mind since the days of the Dell, what was a premiership wage in our day is now 'peanuts'. Look at the top 4 and now Man city. It is a different world there now, not just a different league. £30+million for players who in a few years could leave for nothing on a Bosman.

 

The sooner the big , internationally owned teams, bugger off to form a european, or even world, super league the better. That might give normal league clubs like the bulk of the premiership and those in the CCC a chance to win our domestic league without them skewing it. Abramovitch was the worse thing to happen to modern football in england IMO... and now we have QPR, City etc, as well as the Arsenals and Liverpools etc.

K.

 

I too hope this happens, as only then our leagues will open up or something drastic is done such as a wage cap system used in American sports. The sooner they bugger off the better. You can bet though those teams will come crawling back cap in hand to their domestic leagues though begging to be let back in.

[Long Shot]

Thanks Chapel End Charlie for a good summary.

It seems to compete now in the top echelons of English football you have to have mega billions. At least Gavyn Davies can relax now because it is way out of his league.

[eelpie]

 

If match day attendance were to fall by just 1000 per game this season it would cost SFC around £600k in lost income .[/quote

 

We are averaging 17,270 approx so far (not including the Carling Cup match which was even less)

What was last year's average? It must have been around 24,000, which is a weekly downturn of 7,000 fans. So that would be around £32,000 per match in lost income. Not good business so far.

My prediction is that we will lose around £700,000 in lost revenue from falling home gates.

[Window Cleaner]

 

I .[/quote

 

We are averaging 17,270 approx so far (not including the Carling Cup match which was even less)

What was last year's average? It must have been around 24,000, which is a weekly downturn of 7,000 fans. So that would be around £32,000 per match in lost income. Not good business so far.

My prediction is that we will lose around £700,000 in lost revenue from falling home gates.

 

Surely 7Kx18£ makes about 126K per game.

Well over a million a season.

The difference is Lundekvam+II alone = well over a million as well

The rest goes onto the plus side of the ledger. I don't think any of you quite

understand just how much claus was taking out of the club for doing nothing. He apparently was one of the few players (with Pahars) that didnt get a 50% cut when we went down, their contracts being long term from about 2002 ish.

He was certainly on 15 K a week, probably nearer 20. Clearing out Hoos and Hone will have dropped our expenditure by another 600K a year'ish. Lowe is only part time now. Burley 350K ish, how much do you think Jan gets, 60K

perhaps, all these factors mean our cost cutting is vast.Just getting shot of Gorman and Dodd will put about another 100K a year in the kitty,plus we may have finished paying off Sturrock,Gray and Wigley now.

[eelpie]

 

Surely 7Kx18£ makes about 126K per game.

Well over a million a season.

The difference is Lundekvam+II alone = well over a million as well

The rest goes onto the plus side of the ledger. I don't think any of you quite

understand just how much claus was taking out of the club for doing nothing. He apparently was one of the few players (with Pahars) that didnt get a 50% cut when we went down, their contracts being long term from about 2002 ish.

He was certainly on 15 K a week, probably nearer 20. Clearing out Hoos and Hone will have dropped our expenditure by another 600K a year'ish. Lowe is only part time now. Burley 350K ish, how much do you think Jan gets, 60K

perhaps, all these factors mean our cost cutting is vast.Just getting shot of Gorman and Dodd will put about another 100K a year in the kitty,plus we may have finished paying off Sturrock,Gray and Wigley now.

 

Are you saying that we can survive on gates of around 17,000 then?

[James_O_Mac]

I too hope this happens, as only then our leagues will open up or something drastic is done such as a wage cap system used in American sports. The sooner they bugger off the better. You can bet though those teams will come crawling back cap in hand to their domestic leagues though begging to be let back in.

 

I predict in the next 10 years EVERY [premiership/relegated to the championship] team will have a sugar daddy. So we may see the premiership even out again, with ALL teams paying stratospheric wages and transfer fee's

[Window Cleaner]

 

Are you saying that we can survive on gates of around 17,000 then?

 

Don't know, not until we cut costs even more for sure. I think at 17/18 we can break even now but whether we can start repaying debts is something else.

However one things for sure, we can't afford to take either of the on loan players back in January.18K per game would give us a gate revenue of about 7.5 million a season,plus a few cup games putting it up to about 8 million. Some commercial income and a bit of TV money may boost us to 10 million receipts.

I think we have got our salary mass down to about 7 million a season now,so

3 million for the rest, we're on an even keel but still have debts.

[polegategavin]

An excellent summary Chapel End Charlie. Thanks for the work you must have put into it.

 

As to polegategavin's questions about how we managed financially at the Dell in the premiership:-

 

a) Did we ? Transfer profits were necessary even then.

b) Vast sums from TV subsidise all premiership teams. Gates receipts are a minor part of the income of many.

c) The rate of player wage inflation is hugely above inflation for us poor mortals. Even inthe short time we've been out of the premiership, never mind since the days of the Dell, what was a premiership wage in our day is now 'peanuts'. Look at the top 4 and now Man city. It is a different world there now, not just a different league. £30+million for players who in a few years could leave for nothing on a Bosman.

 

The sooner the big , internationally owned teams, bugger off to form a european, or even world, super league the better. That might give normal league clubs like the bulk of the premiership and those in the CCC a chance to win our domestic league without them skewing it. Abramovitch was the worse thing to happen to modern football in england IMO... and now we have QPR, City etc, as well as the Arsenals and Liverpools etc.

 

K.

 

I realise what you are saying with reference to Sky money, that was what enabled us to try and survive each season, but my point was that we were sold a white elephant, in the form of a new stadium, which the board must have known would not be sustainable if we were relegated. So why invest?

 

We would have been far better off carrying on at the Dell and using the costs of investment in the stadium, to pay for better quality players. And only build a new stadium if we had major investment from a new owner, or director.

 

Although it has been great to go and watch Saints at SMS I'm sure most fans would have been happy to carry on watching us at the Dell if guaranteed a better opportunity of running a stable club that if it should be relegated could afford to compete in the lower division. Now we are left with a dilemma where we can't afford to compete to get back to the Premiership, and can't afford to not get promoted, a lose lose situation. I just can't see where it will end. It's great to see the youngsters given a chance but for how long will they have a club to play for without investment?

[eelpie]

 

Don't know, not until we cut costs even more for sure. I think at 17/18 we can break even now but whether we can start repaying debts is something else.

However one things for sure, we can't afford to take either of the on loan players back in January.18K per game would give us a gate revenue of about 7.5 million a season,plus a few cup games putting it up to about 8 million. Some commercial income and a bit of TV money may boost us to 10 million receipts.

I think we have got our salary mass down to about 7 million a season now,so

3 million for the rest, we're on an even keel but still have debts.

 

Thanks for that. It is as near to clarifying the gate situation as possible, I guess.

[saint1977]

What I find so difficult to understand, is that we were obviously profitable in the Premiership when we played at the Dell, with gates of @ 16,000. How is it that we could pay 'Premiership wages' then and make profits, yet now we are paying well below that this season, have reduced the playing staff dramatically, yet seem to still be making big losses.

 

I understand why we made big losses during the passed 2 seasons but what worries me is that it would be almost impossible for us to break even unless we have a full stadium for every home game, and played youth players, with one or two experienced players.

 

I realise we are paying the mortgage on the stadium which has been widely reported as between £2-4m per year but this should be covered by the lower wages (and obviously the hope that the ground would be full for all home games).

 

This highlights to me more than I appreciated previously that we have actually been mis-managed since the decision was taken to build the new ground, as this was based on the theory that we would stay in the Premiership for always (with it's TV rights income) and no account was taken of whether we could afford the costs if we would be relegated.

 

Having seen Charlie's figures, which show well thought through analysis, it worries me that we can't afford to go on without investment, as it is clear that we can't make a profit in the stadium we use. If we were to fill the stadium for the remainder of the games it would generate approximately £4.5-5m extra income which still wouldn't enable us to break even this season. Very worrying............

 

The club's overheads, particularly the academy, are huge at at least £5m p.a, if not more. Sadly, I can see one of the big clubs investing in it in the future (ie first option on the products) to help pay for it...SFC a feeder club anyone?

[Ken Tone]

I realise what you are saying with reference to Sky money, that was what enabled us to try and survive each season, but my point was that we were sold a white elephant, in the form of a new stadium, which the board must have known would not be sustainable if we were relegated. So why invest?

 

We would have been far better off carrying on at the Dell and using the costs of investment in the stadium, to pay for better quality players. And only build a new stadium if we had major investment from a new owner, or director.

 

Although it has been great to go and watch Saints at SMS I'm sure most fans would have been happy to carry on watching us at the Dell if guaranteed a better opportunity of running a stable club that if it should be relegated could afford to compete in the lower division. Now we are left with a dilemma where we can't afford to compete to get back to the Premiership, and can't afford to not get promoted, a lose lose situation. I just can't see where it will end. It's great to see the youngsters given a chance but for how long will they have a club to play for without investment?

 

It's worse than that really. The position we had when we were at the Dell was not sustainable. We could not have survived in the premiership with the sort of div 3 image that gave us. Try attracting Robinho to the Dell! Try attracting investment at the Dell!

 

So it was damned if we did and damned if we didn't.

 

I'm not great fan of Lowe's but the stadium move I feel was essential. The few good thngs that have happened to us recently have been helped by the impression our facilites give to possible managers ,players and sponsors.

 

As I recall, the original plans were that they financed the stadium on an assumption of crowds of between 20-25,000 depending on the opposition, and everyone was delighted when we got 30,000+. Lots of people were even calling for a ground extension only afew years ago.

 

The problems we have are not unique to Saints and IMO are not related to the stadium build; they apply to every club that hasn't got a sugar daddy, or isn't lucky enough to be winning without one. And there can only be one or two at any time in that 'winning without silly money' group, if any, AND most importantly they will only be there for a while before they come crashing down again. Sustained success is not possible in the current premiership/league structure without someone pumping huge sums in-- mostly pumping money they will never recoup; it's not "investment" in any sense normal business would use the term. It's more high stakes roulette, driven by ego.

 

K.

[um pahars]

Don't know, not until we cut costs even more for sure. I think at 17/18 we can break even now but whether we can start repaying debts is something else.

However one things for sure, we can't afford to take either of the on loan players back in January.18K per game would give us a gate revenue of about 7.5 million a season,plus a few cup games putting it up to about 8 million. Some commercial income and a bit of TV money may boost us to 10 million receipts.

I think we have got our salary mass down to about 7 million a season now,so

3 million for the rest, we're on an even keel but still have debts.

 

I have to say that I think you are being extremely optimistic thinking we are (or near to) being on an even keel.

 

Last season we lost north of £15m (Operating loss of £13m and a further £2m interest charge), so we have a very black hole that needs addressing. The cash outflow might be slightly differet, but it was/is still a very sizeable figure.

 

I don't think the savings made to date have been of that magnitude to make us break even, and as mentioned elsewhere if the drop in gates of 4,000 continues then that will be close to being £1.5m to £2m worse off than last season.

 

We are still very much in the mire from a financial perspective.

[VectisSaint]

Does the "reduced coaching costs" item cover the replacement of NP, Dodd and Gorman with JP and Wotte? If so, surely we must expect this to have been a much bigger sum, after all JP and MW were a much cheaper option that NP on his own according to some. Not sure I actually believe that but that is the spin.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Does the "reduced coaching costs" item cover the replacement of NP, Dodd and Gorman with JP and Wotte? If so, surely we must expect this to have been a much bigger sum, after all JP and MW were a much cheaper option that NP on his own according to some. Not sure I actually believe that but that is the spin.

 

I've allowed a modest saving of £50k p/a in what we were paying George Burley last season compared to what Poortvleit & Wotte combined are expected to earn this season . I understand there is a substantial performance related element to their eventual salary making any assessment even more difficult . As with many of the numbers used this is merely my speculation - the actual wages of JP & MW are undisclosed as you would expect .

Any immediate saving from the dismissal of Dodd & Gorman is likely to have been used in paying off their contracts , hence I've considered it as cost neutral .

The other £250k from this column is however a 'hard number' as that figure was quoted on the OS when the 'cutting corners' annouchment was issued .

[cf saint]

Thanks a lot for this - really interesting

 

My only comment would be to wonder if we may be a little better off re wages given that our reported loss last season infers we were one of the higher paying clubs hence the £6K average may be a little light. A small point because even if that were light it doesn't close the gap you identify. I fully expect some of the other senior players to go out on loan because I am sure the hope was at least one or two others would have been sold.

Getting rid of a BWP is about the same as gaining a 1000 on the gate i presume.

[stockportsaint]

I too hope this happens, as only then our leagues will open up or something drastic is done such as a wage cap system used in American sports. The sooner they bugger off the better. You can bet though those teams will come crawling back cap in hand to their domestic leagues though begging to be let back in.

 

Trouble is, you can't have a wages cap in the English leagues when they are competing with other leagues for players. They can have one in Baseball/NFL/Basketball, because noone else plays those sports. Rugby League has a wages cap, but their only competition is Rugby Union (which now also has a wages cap, after things went a bit mental in the early years of professional Rugby Union), and possibly Australian Rugby League.

 

Premiership (and to an extent Championship) teams are competing with French, German, Italian, Spanish, Brazilian, Mexican etc. football clubs when they try to sign a player. If we had a wages cap in the UK without an equivalent one in all other Leagues we compete with, we'd see a lot of players moving abroad for big bucks, like Kevin Keegan did back in the late 70s to Hamburg. Since this would also make it near impossible for English teams to compete in European competitions, I just can't see the Premier League ever agreeing to a salary cap.

 

My hope is that in the next 10 years or so we see a European/World Superleague formed, with the top 4/5 Prem clubs leaving to play weekly games against each other and Real Madrid, AC Milan, Bayern Munich, Boca Juniors, Sao Paolo etc - effectively what the G14 wanted back in the early 90s that lead to the "Champions" League. This would leave a rump of 15 roughly equal teams to compete for a league title they might actually have a chance of winning.

 

My fear is that instead we'd end up with a slimmed down top flight of 14/16 teams, with relegation either eliminated altogether (like the NFL) or reduced to one/two teams per season, and the "missing" games replaced by the "extra" games played overseas - what is currently referred to as the 39th game - Man U v Everton played in Dubai, Man City v Newcastle played in Singapore. All the teams below the top flight would then be reduced to "feeder" clubs for the top flight, along the same lines as college American Football is to the NFL (imagine Saints as a Pompey feeder club - eurgh).

 

If the latter is what happens, I shall completely lose interest in football, and go to watch Sale Sharks at Edgeley Park instead, or take up darts/snooker.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Thanks a lot for this - really interesting

 

My only comment would be to wonder if we may be a little better off re wages given that our reported loss last season infers we were one of the higher paying clubs hence the £6K average may be a little light. A small point because even if that were light it doesn't close the gap you identify. I fully expect some of the other senior players to go out on loan because I am sure the hope was at least one or two others would have been sold.

Getting rid of a BWP is about the same as gaining a 1000 on the gate i presume.

 

You may well be right and I was sorely tempted to use £7.5k as the average pay number for the departed players . It's generally accepted that Rasiak for example was on £15k p/w and you can safely assume that Lundekvam , Skacel , Vignal etc were all well 'North' of £6k as well . To balance that J Wright or M Poke were on less I would expect .

Ultimately I went with £6k because I thought a cautious approach was best in the light of the uncertainty surrounding the pay issue , I hope you understand .

BWP's rumoured £8k p/w would equate to c£400k p/a - maybe 650 fans worth of yearly income as it were - remembering to to confuse income with profit .

[teamsaint]

If we had stayed at the Dell, the financial problems would have caiught up with us.

 

The stadium costs, I think around £2m PA.

At this stage that probably require attendances of around 20000 to pay for itself, which we have, till now, achieved.

 

Lowe got us a very good ground at probably the cheapest price of any major new stadium.

I'm not a big Lowe fan, but for that he deserves credit.

 

Staying at the Dell would have been very negative.

(and the views were rubbish!!)

[cf saint]

You may well be right and I was sorely tempted to use £7.5k as the average pay number for the departed players . It's generally accepted that Rasiak for example was on £15k p/w and you can safely assume that Lundekvam , Skacel , Vignal etc were all well 'North' of £6k as well . To balance that J Wright or M Poke were on less I would expect .

Ultimately I went with £6k because I thought a cautious approach was best in the light of the uncertainty surrounding the pay issue , I hope you understand .

BWP's rumoured £8k p/w would equate to c£400k p/a - maybe 650 fans worth of yearly income as it were - remembering to to confuse income with profit .

 

Thanks- quite understand your approach- it was more a thought that even IF average wages were higher it still wouldn't bridge the gap.

[eelpie]

If we had stayed at the Dell, the financial problems would have caiught up with us.

 

The stadium costs, I think around £2m PA.

At this stage that probably require attendances of around 20000 to pay for itself, which we have, till now, achieved.

 

Staying at the Dell would have been very negative.

(and the views were rubbish!!)

 

Our average home Championship attendance so far this season is c 17,277, not 20,000

 

Birmingham home 18,925

Blackpool home 15,629

(also Saints v Brum cup match only 11,331 which lowers the average further)

 

Worryingly a lot down on last season

 

Brum came with loads of supporters, Blackpool with few, which probably averages out.

Only improved home results will up the attendances to an average of 20,000.