I have just been thinking in my lunch break

[Secret Site Agent]

Whilst sitting here in my lunch break and having a heated discussion with my QS, (which is a construction money man, or in my case a woman) and then reading this thread:

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1240

 

I realised that some of my choices in my job actually reflect some of Lowe and Jans'.

 

Let tell you a quick story.

 

I am on a construction job. I have a limited workforce that are the wrong side of fifty, and a few in experienced youngsters, so I have 'bought in' a number of labourers from a sub-contractor to finish a section of the work. My QS wants to get rid of them all as they are a little expensive, and there are other sites with bigger budgets than mine that want them, as the subbie boys are pretty experienced and work really hard. As I explained politly, if I get rid of them all I will be reliant on older and less experienced operatives and I will not be able to complete on time, within my budget as the quality will go down, and the cost go up.

 

Suddenly I had a bit of a lightbulb moment.

 

Now, I don't really like Lowe or Wilde, to be fair, and I am a long way off forgiving or forgetting. But this is my revelation. Just like Saul on the road to Damascus it hit me. If Lowe is the proported financial wizz that he is supposed to be, and Jan is the 'I can work within a shoe string and youngsters to grater glory' master he is supposed to be, doesn't it boil down to the fact that Saints, even though they have to cut costs, would have an EVEN bigger financial problem if they got relegated?

 

Therefore my conclusion is this:

 

Lowe may want to sell all and sundary to make money, and clear debt, but if you reduce the capability of the 'workforce', you reduce the ability to keep to your projected cost target. In other words if the target for Saints is to reduce costs they CANNOT afford to be relegated, therefore a comfortable mid table place would be needed, and you cannot achieve a mid table place in the CC with Div 1 and past their best players.

 

Is this the plan? Is this what they are aiming for?

 

Please discuss using rational, cogent and well thought out constructive remarks.

 

And also please remember, I could build you a bridge/Road/Sewage Treatment Works/Tunnel/House/office block/sports standium etc. any where you like, within time,within budget and with minimum defects, but I can't predict the scoreline on any Saints match in the last year.

[CabbageFace]

Just hire some polish people.

[Ponty]

If he wanted to sell "all and sundry" Lallana and Surman would not be at the club now.

 

Hope your construction project works out ok.

[labibs]

Broadly yes, but you also need to consider the fact that we need to avoid administration as well. If we spend to stay up, but go into administration as a result, then we will get a 10 point penalty and likely be relegated anyway.

[Secret Site Agent]

Just hire some polish people.

 

Please, one quarter of my management team are Poles, and half the Subbies boys are East European.

 

And trust me, they aint cheap anymore!!!!!!!

[Secret Site Agent]

If he wanted to sell "all and sundry" Lallana and Surman would not be at the club now.

 

Hope your construction project works out ok.

 

That is the point I am making. Lallana and Surman are still here 'because' of the grand plan.

[CabbageFace]

Please, one quarter of my management team are Poles, and half the Subbies boys are East European.

 

And trust me, they aint cheap anymore!!!!!!!

 

Go Chinese or Thai.

[Weston Super Saint]

How much for one of those sports standium thingys?

[dubai_phil]

If you're not that busy or have spare subbies, maybe you could pop down here for some overtime? We're a bit short of construction chappies at the moment...

 

 

(They all keep falling off the buildings or being buried under the cement pouring machines.)

[trousers]

How much for one of those sports standium thingys?

 

How much for a building shaped like a duck?

 

[dubai_phil]

Actually, what you REALLY need is a

 

 

TAKEOVER.

 

You get to retire and leave the problems to the new guys

 

Unless of course you enjoy what you're doing....... or the recession means nobody wants a construction company these days.....

[Hatch]

Rule 1 the QS

[Secret Site Agent]

If you're not that busy or have spare subbies, maybe you could pop down here for some overtime? We're a bit short of construction chappies at the moment...

 

 

(They all keep falling off the buildings or being buried under the cement pouring machines.)

 

Ahhhhhhhhhhh, freedom from the Health and Safety at work act. It is very tempting, but no, I don't know if my conscience would let me sleep at night.

[Secret Site Agent]

How much for a building shaped like a duck?

 

 

I have passed this onto my estimating department.

[Secret Site Agent]

How much for one of those sports standium thingys?

 

Well, for a Wembly it would cost about £750 million, or a Majeski, (which I worked on in my yoof), cost would be about £50 million. Our Current ground cost us around £33 million, which was about 3-5 miilion too much but that is what you get for employing sweaty socks and pompey labour. I could have resourced that job locally and got it built for love

 

However I would willingly knock of 10 % for cash.

 

And I always wondered why the ladies of the night never offer the same discount, alegedly.

[Weston Super Saint]

How much for a building shaped like a duck?

 

 

No idea :smt102

 

One shaped like a bird would be 'cheep' though.

[CabbageFace]

Give me a job.

[Weston Super Saint]

How much for one of those sports standium thingys?

 

Well, for a Wembly it would cost about £750 million, or a Majeski, (which I worked on in my yoof), cost would be about £50 million. Our Current ground cost us around £33 million, which was about 3-5 miilion too much but that is what you get for employing sweaty socks and pompey labour. I could have resourced that job locally and got it built for love

 

However I would willingly knock of 10 % for cash.

 

And I always wondered why the ladies of the night never offer the same discount, alegedly.

 

Whoosh??

[Whitey Grandad]

Just hire some polish people.

We tried that. They have now been loaned to another employer.

[Saint_clark]

The thing we have to remember is that we are trying to reduce costs - Lallana and Surman will not be on big wages and did not cost us anything, so why do we need to sell them?

[paris]

Fancy investing a football team,think about it ....

[paris]

Fancy investing in a football team,think about it ....

[Snowballs2]

Best thing is fire the QS then go for a long lunch then sue the subbies for missing the agreed dates...then resign

[DT]

The one thing you want to ensure above all is that your catering facilities are the envy of all other sites.

[Master Bates]

The one thing you want to ensure above all is that your catering facilities are the envy of all other sites.

 

Just call 'The Bapman'.

[saintbob40]

Does all this mean that the team wont turn up on time (at all?) next Sunday and when they do they will drink innumerable cups of tea, whistle loudly, read the Sun and then disappear half way through the working day for no apparent reason/to complete another job.

 

All very worrying.

[JohnnyFartPants]

Are you suggesting that we get the youth team to build cheap houses for the local community?

[dubai_phil]

Does all this mean that the team wont turn up on time (at all?) next Sunday and when they do they will drink innumerable cups of tea, whistle loudly, read the Sun and then disappear half way through the working day for no apparent reason/to complete another job.

 

All very worrying.

 

Isn't that what happened LAST week against Blackpool??

[saintbob40]

Are you suggesting that we get the youth team to build cheap houses for the local community?

 

I think Dyer may already be doing that for a while!

[OldNick]

considering the initial thread would have taken some time to compose its nice to see posters are not being flippant.

[Master Bates]

considering the initial thread would have taken some time to compose its nice to see posters are not being flippant.

 

And for those of us not clever enough to use big words

 

Flippant

Flip\, n. [Cf. Prov. E. flip nimble, flippant, also, a slight blow. Cf. Flippant.]

A mixture of beer, spirit, etc., stirred and heated by a hot iron.

 

Now stop being vociferous

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Whilst sitting here in my lunch break and having a heated discussion with my QS, (which is a construction money man, or in my case a woman) and then reading this thread:

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1240

 

I realised that some of my choices in my job actually reflect some of Lowe and Jans'.

 

Let tell you a quick story.

 

I am on a construction job. I have a limited workforce that are the wrong side of fifty, and a few in experienced youngsters, so I have 'bought in' a number of labourers from a sub-contractor to finish a section of the work. My QS wants to get rid of them all as they are a little expensive, and there are other sites with bigger budgets than mine that want them, as the subbie boys are pretty experienced and work really hard. As I explained politly, if I get rid of them all I will be reliant on older and less experienced operatives and I will not be able to complete on time, within my budget as the quality will go down, and the cost go up.

 

Suddenly I had a bit of a lightbulb moment.

 

Now, I don't really like Lowe or Wilde, to be fair, and I am a long way off forgiving or forgetting. But this is my revelation. Just like Saul on the road to Damascus it hit me. If Lowe is the proported financial wizz that he is supposed to be, and Jan is the 'I can work within a shoe string and youngsters to grater glory' master he is supposed to be, doesn't it boil down to the fact that Saints, even though they have to cut costs, would have an EVEN bigger financial problem if they got relegated?

 

Therefore my conclusion is this:

 

Lowe may want to sell all and sundary to make money, and clear debt, but if you reduce the capability of the 'workforce', you reduce the ability to keep to your projected cost target. In other words if the target for Saints is to reduce costs they CANNOT afford to be relegated, therefore a comfortable mid table place would be needed, and you cannot achieve a mid table place in the CC with Div 1 and past their best players.

 

Is this the plan? Is this what they are aiming for?

 

Please discuss using rational, cogent and well thought out constructive remarks.

 

And also please remember, I could build you a bridge/Road/Sewage Treatment Works/Tunnel/House/office block/sports standium etc. any where you like, within time,within budget and with minimum defects, but I can't predict the scoreline on any Saints match in the last year.

 

Are the sub contractors going to take you outside the budget?

 

If they go will the contract be finished within the alloted time, budget and minimum defects?

[EFM]

considering the initial thread would have taken some time to compose its nice to see posters are not being flippant.

 

Damn! I was just going to post a flippant reply now I'm going to have to pretend I know what I'm talking about with a coherent argument!

 

Nope........it's no good, I can't do it. Except that I came to the same conclusion about this as the original poster's some time ago but thought I must have missed something or was being naive. Enlightening stuff eh?

 

(There have been some very funny flippant comments though nickh!)

[Long Shot]

Best thing is fire the QS then go for a long lunch then sue the subbies for missing the agreed dates...then resign

 

 

And then come back 15 months later in tandem with the QS, taking over the reins again

[paris]

No clever..

Come on invest some of your monies in our club....

 

 

 

considering the initial thread would have taken some time to compose its nice to see posters are not being flippant.

[hugh]

This thread is a good illustration of Saints problems. Good initial planning and carefully laid out ground rules. Unfortunately stuffed up by the poor quality of thought shown by the people the planner has to rely on.......

[OldNick]

No clever..

Come on invest some of your monies in our club....

I do.

That was expensive wording when I used that 25 years ago.

[OldNick]

And for those of us not clever enough to use big words

 

 

 

Now stop being vociferous

My understanding of the word is 'without knowledge or consideration'

 

but when I see you at SMS it might mean i'm gonna flippant you around the ear

[Master Bates]

My understanding of the word is 'without knowledge or consideration'

 

but when I see you at SMS it might mean i'm gonna flippant you around the ear

 

You'd never catch me unless of course you cunningly use bait

[OldNick]

You'd never catch me unless of course you cunningly use bait

I'd use cunning and disguise, as nobody expects the Nickh Inquisition.

[Master Bates]

[camdijk]

Just hire some polish people.

 

I hear Mr Sheen may be available!!

;-)

[trousers]

I hear Mr Sheen may be available!!

;-)

 

I did think about dusting that one off myself

[Secret Site Agent]

Are the sub contractors going to take you outside the budget?

 

If they go will the contract be finished within the alloted time, budget and minimum defects?

 

The Sub-Contractors will eat into my budget for the job and reduce the margin, but it will finish within the alloted time, and with minimum defects as they are used to doing this type of works. To finish late will cost me much more, not only financially but with standing with the client. And as it involves those lovely cones on the road, you lot too.

Edited 4 September, 2008 by Secret Site Agent

[Legod Second Coming]

The Sub-Contractors will eat into my budget for the job and reduce the margin, but it will finish within the alloted time, and with minimum defects as they are used to doing this type of works. To finish late will cost me much more, not only financially but with standing with the client. And as it involves those lovely cones on the road, you lot too.

 

1. As someone who drives 25,000 miles a year on average, do WHATEVER it takes to finish this job ASAP. The real cost of you running to budget/time alone, is millions and millions in lost revenue for people like me, something that is never factored in by contractors (no blame to you for that clearly!!) but I wish the MOT would simply say, ****** to the cost, let's get it done overnight because the real cost to the economy in cones is immesaruable... (let alone going over time!!!)

 

2. Your initial post is a really cogent argument as to why people should stop thinking that Rupert is only thinking of the bottom line. He HAS to be planning for the long term.

 

I think it's very pertinent personally that West Ham have responded to Curbs by saying that they cannot build the philosophy of a football club around ONE man - the manager. Because if they do and he leaves, then what???

 

This has been Rupert's argument from day one at the club.

 

Finally, it appears he was simply ahead of his time, now that club after club is actually following suit!!!

 

(I admit, that I am of the old school that handed the manager everything and left it with him but as I approach middle-age I'm beggining to reasses this strategy - particularly in the face of current events in the Premeirship...)

[Oz]

Whilst sitting here in my lunch break and having a heated discussion with my QS, (which is a construction money man, or in my case a woman) and then reading this thread:

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1240

 

I realised that some of my choices in my job actually reflect some of Lowe and Jans'.

 

Let tell you a quick story.

 

I am on a construction job. I have a limited workforce that are the wrong side of fifty, and a few in experienced youngsters, so I have 'bought in' a number of labourers from a sub-contractor to finish a section of the work. My QS wants to get rid of them all as they are a little expensive, and there are other sites with bigger budgets than mine that want them, as the subbie boys are pretty experienced and work really hard. As I explained politly, if I get rid of them all I will be reliant on older and less experienced operatives and I will not be able to complete on time, within my budget as the quality will go down, and the cost go up.

 

Suddenly I had a bit of a lightbulb moment.

 

Now, I don't really like Lowe or Wilde, to be fair, and I am a long way off forgiving or forgetting. But this is my revelation. Just like Saul on the road to Damascus it hit me. If Lowe is the proported financial wizz that he is supposed to be, and Jan is the 'I can work within a shoe string and youngsters to grater glory' master he is supposed to be, doesn't it boil down to the fact that Saints, even though they have to cut costs, would have an EVEN bigger financial problem if they got relegated?

 

Therefore my conclusion is this:

 

Lowe may want to sell all and sundary to make money, and clear debt, but if you reduce the capability of the 'workforce', you reduce the ability to keep to your projected cost target. In other words if the target for Saints is to reduce costs they CANNOT afford to be relegated, therefore a comfortable mid table place would be needed, and you cannot achieve a mid table place in the CC with Div 1 and past their best players.

 

Is this the plan? Is this what they are aiming for?

 

Please discuss using rational, cogent and well thought out constructive remarks.

 

And also please remember, I could build you a bridge/Road/Sewage Treatment Works/Tunnel/House/office block/sports standium etc. any where you like, within time,within budget and with minimum defects, but I can't predict the scoreline on any Saints match in the last year.

 

when saul had his revelation, he said "is that you Lord?" does that mean you saw lowe! if so why did you not ask him then, before you were blinded?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

The Sub-Contractors will eat into my budget for the job and reduce the margin, but it will finish within the alloted time, and with minimum defects as they are used to doing this type of works. To finish late will cost me much more, not only financially but with standing with the client. And as it involves those lovely cones on the road, you lot too.

 

So stick with the contractors then, unless you get overruled by your boss?

 

Getting back to the point though, Saints can obviously afford these contractors (loan signings) so they should follow the same pattern as you portrayed?

[BadgerBadger]

Go Chinese or Thai.

 

I love Thai:

Food

Women

Whiskey

Beaches

[Special K]

A decent site manager would get rid of the subbies, put the direct boys on a price and make sure they finished on time. although your QS should be giving you decent subbies in the first place...........

 

Perhaps that's the way. I guess the young lads that currently make up the first team are on a small wage. Give them and the manager a big enough financial incentive and see how that works. If Dyer is anything to go by, they need a few extra quid anyway.....

[up and away]

considering the initial thread would have taken some time to compose its nice to see posters are not being flippant.

 

This is no different to many other threads upon the direction of the club and is only valid if we have this room to manoeuvre.

What is being done at the present is a long term plan that looks like it has some backing, only time will tell on that.

 

Very soon the accounts will be out and everyone can take their obligatory gasp and these threads will diminish.