Pinnacle - genuine or bogus?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Pinnacle's ill-fated attempt to buy SFC - which included the period of exclusivity granted to them - simply delayed the arrival of Markus Liebherr by about 6 weeks and that lost period of time looks like it could cost us any realistic chance of a play off place this season.

 

Poor old AP has had so little time to prepare, appoint staff and sign players and it is little wonder we are going into two tough matches (Millwall and Huddersfied) far from 100% prepared. That is not good news with a 10 point deficit to overcome.

 

I now understand that Pinnacle's planned purchase of us was through a system known as leveraged debt. ie "the use of debt to supplement investment which companies usually leverage to increase returns to stock, as this practice can maximise gains and losses".

 

It seems then that Pinnacle had no real funds to invest and were merely attempting to do - on a smaller scale - what the Glazers have done at United. Indeed I have also heard that already, in anticipation of taking the club over Pinnacle were already sounding out other interested parties with a view to selling the club on.

 

It is now also common knowledge that Pinnacle could not even fund the half a million which payed the staff and opened the lock to Fry granting them exclusivity and they had to rely on Leon Crouch to do the decent thing and cough up. I gather around this time Pinnacle were making all sorts of excuses as to why they couldn't come up with the half million and with LC fearing the club was about to go under did the decent thing on the promise that others would supply funds at a latter date. He was not being told the truth.

 

The public face of Pinnacle as we know is/was Tony Lynam but he was not one of the money men. They were initially named (to Fry as Alistair Dias and William Allen) but it seems fairly early on in proceedings one of them (probably Dias) melted away to leave just Allen as the "single investor", later referred to by Lynam. How genuine was Allen? Not very it seems. How much did Lynam know about Allen's real intentions? Only Lynam can answer that but I am presuming very little. I am also assuming MLT knew even less although I think MLT did speak to Allen as some of his statements to Sky on the weekend before it all went belly up, backed this up.

 

Did Fry check out Allen? Not as much as he should and it is clear in statements made by Fry after Liebherr had taken over that Fry smelt a rat during exclusivity. However Fry had done what he was asked, the staff had been paid and we were still in business. Exclusivity was allowed to run its full course and then more time granted. Quite incredible.

 

I also think Fry was anxious for Pinnacle to succed (as were us fans) because of the MLT factor. That clouded judgement.

 

We were very very lucky then that Markus Liebherr did not throw his toys out of the pram when he lost out to what was nothing more than a sham. Thank goodness he was still there when Pinnacle finally realised they could not keep up with ruse any longer. To be quite blunt Pinnacle's "tyre kicking" could have sounded the death knell for this club and we probably don't realise how dangerous their involvement was. (I gather the new owners are none too happy with Pinnacle either).

 

As it is - we will overcome the damage but we may have "lost" a season due to lack of proper preparation. I am sure ML will invest but he will do it rationally. The long term weather forecast is bright but there are a few storm clouds to come first. Had Pinnacle succeeded and purchased us with borrowed money the heavens would have opened and never shut.

 

Unfortunately Pinnacle's legacy will be with us for a good 12 months!

[JustMike]

Pinnacle's ill-fated attempt to buy SFC - which included the period of exclusivity granted to them - simply delayed the arrival of Markus Liebherr by about 6 weeks and that lost period of time looks like it could cost us any realistic chance of a play off place this season.

 

Poor old AP has had so little time to prepare, appoint staff and sign players and it is little wonder we are going into two tough matches (Millwall and Huddersfied) far from 100% prepared. That is not good news with a 10 point deficit to overcome.

 

I now understand that Pinnacle's planned purchase of us was through a system known as leveraged debt. ie "the use of debt to supplement investment which companies usually leverage to increase returns to stock, as this practice can maximise gains and losses".

 

It seems then that Pinnacle had no real funds to invest and were merely attempting to do - on a smaller scale - what the Glazers have done at United. Indeed I have also heard that already, in anticipation of taking the club over Pinnacle were already sounding out other interested parties with a view to selling the club on.

 

It is now also common knowledge that Pinnacle could not even fund the half a million which payed the staff and opened the lock to Fry granting them exclusivity and they had to rely on Leon Crouch to do the decent thing and cough up. I gather around this time Pinnacle were making all sorts of excuses as to why they couldn't come up with the half million and with LC fearing the club was about to go under did the decent thing on the promise that others would supply funds at a latter date. He was not being told the truth.

 

The public face of Pinnacle as we know is/was Tony Lynam but he was not one of the money men. They were initially named (to Fry as Alistair Dias and William Allen) but it seems fairly early on in proceedings one of them (probably Dias) melted away to leave just Allen as the "single investor", later referred to by Lynam. How genuine was Allen? Not very it seems. How much did Lynam know about Allen's real intentions? Only Lynam can answer that but I am presuming very little. I am also assuming MLT knew even less although I think MLT did speak to Allen as some of his statements to Sky on the weekend before it all went belly up, backed this up.

 

Did Fry check out Allen? Not as much as he should and it is clear in statements made by Fry after Liebherr had taken over that Fry smelt a rat during exclusivity. However Fry had done what he was asked, the staff had been paid and we were still in business. Exclusivity was allowed to run its full course and then more time granted. Quite incredible.

 

I also think Fry was anxious for Pinnacle to succed (as were us fans) because of the MLT factor. That clouded judgement.

 

We were very very lucky then that Markus Liebherr did not throw his toys out of the pram when he lost out to what was nothing more than a sham. Thank goodness he was still there when Pinnacle finally realised they could not keep up with ruse any longer. To be quite blunt Pinnacle's "tyre kicking" could have sounded the death knell for this club and we probably don't realise how dangerous their involvement was. (I gather the new owners are none too happy with Pinnacle either).

 

As it is - we will overcome the damage but we may have "lost" a season due to lack of proper preparation. I am sure ML will invest but he will do it rationally. The long term weather forecast is bright but there are a few storm clouds to come first. Had Pinnacle succeeded and purchased us with borrowed money the heavens would have opened and never shut.

 

Unfortunately Pinnacle's legacy will be with us for a good 12 months!

 

a very good post FF, one in which i hope all the "why havent we bought 7 players yet" posters take note, we are lucky to be in a position to have that debate.

[WestSaint]

Pinnacle therefore used the name of MLT to add respectability to the bid which they succeeded in doing , and their bid was all froth with no substance backing it up. Why were they therefore givren extended exclusivity

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Pinnacle therefore used the name of MLT to add respectability to the bid which they succeeded in doing and there bid was all froth with no substance backing it up. Why were they therefore givren extended exclusivity

 

a good question.

I don't think they were "given" extended exclusivity because once the deadline passed Fry was reported to be seeking talks with other parties but of of course, by then, Pinnacle were firmly in the driving seat with Lynam incredibly being given a Saints e mail address and granted access to the players at Stapleford.

[WealdSaint]

Yet another excellent post. Thanks FF

 

So glad that all this is now history!

[scally]

Great post Fitzhugh the only thing I don't understand is how Pinnacle could of borrowed money against what was basically a bankrupt club.

[sandwichsaint]

Have to say again here (and whatever we think of the 'personalities' involved) we all owe LC a massive vote of thanks; his money apparently got us through to the end of last season, and again in the summer it looks like he stumped up a cool 500k to keep us going.... thanks Leon!

[WestSaint]

Amazing therefore that the administrators did not carry out additional due diligince on the proving of funds.

 

I think that Fry should have accepted the £1/2m from the pinnacle group and not Crouch.

What is the point of asking a prospective purchaser to prove funds and then accept the monies from someone else.

[glkdcdes]

A very interesting post. It was clear towards the end that Le Tis was being used, and he was easy meat because clearly he genuinely loves the club. If Crouch did put the money down, i assume that is his write off. If that is the case, surprising we have not heard more about this.

My experience of liquidators9is that the word?] is that as long as they can cover their arses and keep inside the rules, their only interest is the fees they can get away with. Dont forget the longer a process can go on the more fees charged.

So all and all an unhappy saga, but at least now behind us.

[saint lard]

Pinnacle= full of p1ss and wind.

[Draino76]

Great post Fitzhugh the only thing I don't understand is how Pinnacle could of borrowed money against what was basically a bankrupt club.

 

Against 'pie in the sky' future income; high risk strategy attracting high interest rates. This strategy is dangerous even when you're Man united, I shudder to think what would happen here that way.

 

Cheers FF. All looks about right.

[WestSaint]

I would have thought that the administrators would have wanted to make a statement on what heppened. It reflects dreadfully on them

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Great post Fitzhugh the only thing I don't understand is how Pinnacle could of borrowed money against what was basically a bankrupt club.

 

Yea that is where they differed from the Glazer leveraged debt. The Glazers borrowed from United whereas I am assuming Pinnacle would have borrowed from the City and hoped that the gains made through selling the club on (whether that was short or long term) would outweigh interest on the debt.

Don't forget the 12-13m rumoured to be the cost of buying SFC out of debt and owning the club, stadium etc lock, stock and barrel was a bargain. That is why it attracted some of the idiots or sharks it did. Not many of them had a 2 hapennies to rub together. Football attracts speculators and get rich quick merchants like a moth to a light bulb.

 

The only genuine buyers out there were Salz (couldn't raise enough funds), Crouch (couldn't ally himself with others to raise the cash) and Markus Liebherr.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Amazing therefore that the administrators did not carry out additional due diligince on the proving of funds.

 

I think that Fry should have accepted the £1/2m from the pinnacle group and not Crouch.

What is the point of asking a prospective purchaser to prove funds and then accept the monies from someone else.

 

I think by the time LC signed the cheque he was a honorary member of Pinnacle.

[WestSaint]

I am guessing however that if MLt had not been used to lend his name to the bid - It would never have got as far as it did

[scally]

Yea that is where they differed from the Glazer leveraged debt. The Glazers borrowed from United whereas I am assuming Pinnacle would have borrowed from the City and hoped that the gains made through selling the club on (whether that was short or long term) would outweigh interest on the debt.

Don't forget the 12-13m rumoured to be the cost of buying SFC out of debt and owning the club, stadium etc lock, stock and barrel was a bargain. That is why it attracted some of the idiots or sharks it did. Not many of them had a 2 hapennies to rub together. Football attracts speculators and get rich quick merchants like a moth to a light bulb.

 

The only genuine buyers out there were Salz (couldn't raise enough funds), Crouch (couldn't ally himself with others to raise the cash) and Markus Liebherr.

 

It looks like we had a lucky escape.

[wireframebox]

Alistair Dias

[lordswoodsaints]

I cannot understand how letiss got sucked in,surely he should have done some basic checks on these people,he has connections in sport and business......unless of course he got paid to be the front man? In which case that would clouded his judgment.

[SuperSAINT]

FF, did you ever find out who the Irish bidders were?

 

Wasn't Tommac again was it?

[Graffito]

Choosing Pinnacle over Liebherr could have been the mother of all **** ups by Fry. How the hell did he go for Pinnacle?

[eurosaint]

Sounds like we had a lucky escape !!

Would be great if the fanbase could unite in support of the new regime ???

Edited 2 August, 2009 by eurosaint
Sorry Scally, used the same words but a bit late !

[Fitzhugh Fella]

FF, did you ever find out who the Irish bidders were?

 

Wasn't Tommac again was it?

 

No heard nothing about Tommac or the Irish, but I know Dan (Help me Rhonda) Williams surfaced briefly for a while on this forum around then. Like I say when a club is up for sale all sorts of things emerge from the woodwork.

[Verbal]

Thanks, FF. But it still begs at least a couple of questions about the bidding war:

 

Why didn't Liebherr simply trump the Pinnacle bid earlier and rush in ahead of them with the non-refundable down-payment? Was his bid not ready at the time? If that's the case, the idea that we lost almost a month to Pinnacle may not necessarily be true.

 

Did Liebherr offer substantially less than the Pinnacle bid? If so, we can hardly blame Fry if he went for the option that offered better value to creditors. That was his job, after all.

 

If, on the other hand, Liebherr stood aside just because MLT was associated with the Pinnacle bid, then that suggests to me at least that Fry should have been much more proactive in promoting the bid with the greater credibility. It would have saved us all a lot of heartache and Leon a cool half a million.

 

In any case, the idea that Pinnacle's bid was a leveraged buyout is deeply shocking. Was Fry REALLY unaware of that his ‘preferred bidder’ was offering to buy a catastrophically indebted club with…debt? It seems highly unlikely to me. Just as it seems extremely likely that MLT and Leon did NOT know.

 

In which case, Leon quite possibly has an actionable case against Fry as well as Pinnacle. I guess we just don’t know how Lynam represented his bid to Fry and to Leon & MTL. Do we (you)?

[forever a red and white]

don't know and don't care.

 

It looks like though, atm, at least we have good new owners with sufficient financial backing and a good business background. All that is needed is a football background but they have to start somewhere.

 

As much as some people find it all very interesting about who could have been owners, who could have been manager etc, think its time to forget about digging up issues and contravery and focus on the new football season

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Choosing Pinnacle over Liebherr could have been the mother of all **** ups by Fry. How the hell did he go for Pinnacle?

 

False promises and MLT's name. Once LC got involved I think Fry would have been even happier knowing that in the past LC had put his hand in his pocket. Leon Crouch and MLT undoubtedly lent Pinnacle an air of gravitas.

[Badger]

Alistair Dias

 

Yes,exactly.

 

I thought this name was dreamt up by someone on here.So does this clown really exist ?

 

I still find it incredible that Pinnacle were able to get past the 'proof of funds' stage.Once that was accomplished then there would be no reason for Fry not to assume they could proceed although the Crouch intervention clearly was a warning sign.

[John Smith]

Thanks FF, I think you have filled the missing gaps for most of us that didn't quite understand the whole picture. Certainly by the end of exclusivity, the majority on here were more than suspect, but couldn't understand why this was allowed. Considering the focus on us from the Football league, administrators and creditors, how Pinnacle were able to trumpet that, er, what's his face, on Sky as a major investor, and then still continue promising the takeover would happen, is beyond me.

 

For me, I no we need to put this in the past, but would like to say, if we can, we should make other clubs aware of the situation, so that their fans are not duped as well. I would go so far as to say, that if we knew the individuals involved, we should let them know what we think when they mess with a football club. It angers me (more than some, possibly), that business see football as easy pickings, whereas, I would love to see the 'club' aspect more protected. Granted, there are many arguments as to why it is how it is, BUT, maybe the powers that be need to review the whole situation. Personally, I did not mind a rich person, such as Abramovich, or that Man City bloke, coming into the game and splashing the cash. They earned it and they can spend it how they wish. It's only short term in the scheme of things and makes the top clubs quiver with fear, which is always a good thing. But, we all should know, football may be a business, but it is not necessarily a profitable business, and nor should it be.

 

Lastly, a big thank you to Leon Crouch and Mark Liebherr. They saved this club!

 

I don't want a billionaire to throw his money at us. I don't want a Billionaire to bridge that 6 week gap that was created by Pinnacle, by purchasing a bunch of untested players. I want my club back. I want us to laugh in the face of obscurity. I want this season to be the first of many building blocks for the future of this club, not for the next 3 or 4 years, but for the next 20 or 30! The greatest thing I feel with having ML in charge is 'security'! Secure in the knowledge that we're not looking over our shoulders anymore at the people we owe money to. We only need to look forward and we should succeed or fail on the amount of people we get in the ground by playing attractive, flowing football, but most importantly, football played with heart and passion! I don't think you can buy heart and passion, but you can breed it!

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Thanks, FF. But it still begs at least a couple of questions about the bidding war:

 

Why didn't Liebherr simply trump the Pinnacle bid earlier and rush in ahead of them with the non-refundable down-payment? Was his bid not ready at the time? If that's the case, the idea that we lost almost a month to Pinnacle may not necessarily be true.

 

Did Liebherr offer substantially less than the Pinnacle bid? If so, we can hardly blame Fry if he went for the option that offered better value to creditors. That was his job, after all.

 

If, on the other hand, Liebherr stood aside just because MLT was associated with the Pinnacle bid, then that suggests to me at least that Fry should have been much more proactive in promoting the bid with the greater credibility. It would have saved us all a lot of heartache and Leon a cool half a million.

 

In any case, the idea that Pinnacle's bid was a leveraged buyout is deeply shocking. Was Fry REALLY unaware of that his ‘preferred bidder’ was offering to buy a catastrophically indebted club with…debt? It seems highly unlikely to me. Just as it seems extremely likely that MLT and Leon did NOT know.

 

In which case, Leon quite possibly has an actionable case against Fry as well as Pinnacle. I guess we just don’t know how Lynam represented his bid to Fry and to Leon & MTL. Do we (you)?

 

Yes to your last question because I have a copy of Pinnacle's initial bid to Fry where he says his backers could invest up to £30m. But obviously one of those backers soon disappeared.

 

As for ML not trumping Pinnacle I would say that ML is not the sort to trump other bidders, plus he would have been told by AO that to trump a bid that would make MLT chairman would not be conducive to having a good relationship with the fans.

 

And I don't think Fry was 100% in the loop re leveraged debt (presumably it was not his business where the funds came from) although the truth seems to be out there now.

 

As for how much Matt knew, one would have to ask him but in the one conversation I had with him (which was a little one-sided) on the Saturday he said it was all going to go ahead on the Monday, he seemed very sure that Pinnacle were the real deal.

Edited 2 August, 2009 by Fitzhugh Fella

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Yes,exactly.

 

I thought this name was dreamt up by someone on here.So does this clown really exist ?

 

I still find it incredible that Pinnacle were able to get past the 'proof of funds' stage.Once that was accomplished then there would be no reason for Fry not to assume they could proceed although the Crouch intervention clearly was a warning sign.

 

I have a copy of a letter sent by his solicitors veryfying his wealth which was sent to Fry so I guess he does exist.

[Badger]

Yes to your last question because I have a copy of Pinnacle's initial bid to Fry where he says his backers could invest up to £30m. But obviously one of those backers soon disappeared.

 

 

As for how much Matt knew, one would have to ask him but in the one conversation I had with him (which was a little one-sided) on the Saturday he said it was all going to go ahead on the Monday, he seemed very sure that Pinnacle were the real deal.

 

Were the backers named in that proposal ?

 

Was the conversation with MLT before or after the Fialka fiasco ?

 

I was staggered when Fialka was wheeled out,what on earth was Lynam thinking of putting that berk forward as our potential saviour ?At that point Pinnacle's remaining credibility - MLT or not - hit the rocks.

[Glasgow_Saint]

While I accept the Pinnacle delay cost us a few weeks preparation, I can't agree that this can be leaned on as an excuse ALL season.

 

- Pre season training didn't started till June 22nd and Wotte spent time preparing our current stock.

- Takeover was then completed 8th July (2 weeks "lost")

- ML and team then waited 10 days to appoint AP (???) (3.5 weeks "lost")

- AP has been here since 17th July ample time (imo) to have identified and purchased two or three players without "panic buying" (is Harding guaranteed to be sh*t because he signed him after 2 days?)

- MK Dons appointed Paul Ince a week before we appointed AP, he has managed to sign 8 players!! MK Dons are now one of the favorites to go up (even our fans are tipping them on the 'who will win L1' thread)

 

Pinnacle cost us a few weeks preparation - yes. We therefore needed to act fast to make up for the lost time, this hasn't been done and thats why we may now struggle.

[Clifford Nelson]

The public face of Pinnacle as we know is/was Tony Lynam but he was not one of the money men. They were initially named (to Fry as Alistair Dias and William Allen) but it seems fairly early on in proceedings one of them (probably Dias) melted away to leave just Allen as the "single investor", later referred to by Lynam.QUOTE]

 

A very interesting and probable analysis. I'd just like to add that I doubt the existence of Alistair Dias and William Allen. AD is probably a re-write of Ali Dia, God help us, and WA intended as the kid brother of Paul Allen, whom we dreamt about over a long time. Somebody, somewhere had a sense of humour. The two financial kingpins cannot be found on the internet at all, which is strange for multimillionaires. As for MLT speaking to Allen, he could have spoken to anyone purporting to be him.

 

Fialka might well have been the man behind it all the time in the hope of bringing somebody in from his social, - he hasn't got any financial - circles.

 

How did they find Tony Lynam as their patsy? I suppose that he was to be paid for his efforts, and I suspect that he hasn't seen a penny.

 

Lots of people were taken in by the bid, including MLT, Crouch and Fry. For the club it was an expensive, elaborate scam. I wonder who could possibly be suing who, but if it is for money, the truth is there never was any.

[Badger]

I have a copy of a letter sent by his solicitors veryfying his wealth which was sent to Fry so I guess he does exist.

 

googled :

 

https://secure.creditgate.com/search/search.aspx?directorsurname=Dias&directorfirstname=Alistair&searchby=postcode&AdditionalSearch=W13+8HX&IsDirectorSearch=1

 

Click for Advanced Search

 

Please click on the selected name to see the available reports:

 

ALISTAIR JEREMY DIAS

EALING

W13 8

[Badger]

I'd just like to add that I doubt the existence of Alistair Dias and William Allen. AD is probably a re-write of Ali Dia, God help us, QUOTE]

 

googled :

 

 

Please click on the selected name to see the available reports:

 

ALISTAIR JEREMY DIAS

EALING

W13 8

 

 

Thats not to say the name wasn't just 'borrowed' of course.

[Jackie@home]

I'd heard that Pinnacle had beaten the Liebherr bid by a matter of hours. ML's team thought that Pinnacle did not have sufficient funds in place to enter the exclusivity period and were extremely suprised when Fry granted it to them. As we now know, they certainly didn't have sufficient funds to complete a takeover. I'm also absolutely sure that MLT was convinced that it was going through, but I'm afraid his lack of experience in the business world caught him out.

 

Someone who knew about the ML bid told me that he was not giving up because it was quite normal for the bid that looks like it is in the driving seat to fall through at the last minute when it comes to parting with the cash.

[up and away]

Originally Posted by scally

Great post Fitzhugh the only thing I don't understand is how Pinnacle could of borrowed money against what was basically a bankrupt club

 

Yea that is where they differed from the Glazer leveraged debt. The Glazers borrowed from United whereas I am assuming Pinnacle would have borrowed from the City and hoped that the gains made through selling the club on (whether that was short or long term) would outweigh interest on the debt.

Don't forget the 12-13m rumoured to be the cost of buying SFC out of debt and owning the club, stadium etc lock, stock and barrel was a bargain. That is why it attracted some of the idiots or sharks it did. Not many of them had a 2 hapennies to rub together. Football attracts speculators and get rich quick merchants like a moth to a light bulb.

 

The only genuine buyers out there were Salz (couldn't raise enough funds), Crouch (couldn't ally himself with others to raise the cash) and Markus Liebherr.

 

The only way Pinnacle could have borrowed money from regular lenders would be based upon revenue or assets. For the assets to come into the equation they would have needed to pump enough of their own money into the business for the lending risk to be acceptable. I would expect that figure to be somewhere around £5M or higher, whether or not they could come up with that I do not know. You then have to find someone to lend you the remainder in a very limited time period in one of the worst financial crisis to date, a virtually impossible task. Given another era and more time it's possible they could have pulled it off but under their conditions, it looked an impossibility. If you have a private investor you can bypass all those restrictions but was that ever the case?

 

It looks like you have a good understanding of most but I cannot see Salz and Crouch were ever serious buyers, only coming into the frame once liquidation had bitten.

[Verbal]

googled :

 

https://secure.creditgate.com/search/search.aspx?directorsurname=Dias&directorfirstname=Alistair&searchby=postcode&AdditionalSearch=W13+8HX&IsDirectorSearch=1

 

Click for Advanced Search

 

Please click on the selected name to see the available reports:

 

ALISTAIR JEREMY DIAS

EALING

W13 8

 

I know the road he lives on quite well. Very ritzy. All large, detached Edwardian villas with big driveways.

 

Ali Dias (for short) is 38 years old apparently. Seven directorships. 'Something' in the City, is my guess.

[Weston Saint]

Were the backers named in that proposal ?

 

Was the conversation with MLT before or after the Fialka fiasco ?

 

I was staggered when Fialka was wheeled out,what on earth was Lynam thinking of putting that berk forward as our potential saviour ?At that point Pinnacle's remaining credibility - MLT or not - hit the rocks.

 

Despite his public support, in private Lynam was against Fialka going public and suprised/disappointed when he did!

[Alain Perrin]

Lastly, a big thank you to Leon Crouch and Mark Liebherr. They saved this club!

 

It's a double edged sword with Crouch. Whilst his money undoubtedly saved the club, several of his actions also put it in real jeopardy.

[Weston Saint]

I'd heard that Pinnacle had beaten the Liebherr bid by a matter of hours. ML's team thought that Pinnacle did not have sufficient funds in place to enter the exclusivity period and were extremely suprised when Fry granted it to them. As we now know, they certainly didn't have sufficient funds to complete a takeover. I'm also absolutely sure that MLT was convinced that it was going through, but I'm afraid his lack of experience in the business world caught him out.

 

Someone who knew about the ML bid told me that he was not giving up because it was quite normal for the bid that looks like it is in the driving seat to fall through at the last minute when it comes to parting with the cash.

That is my understanding as well

[Verbal]

It's a double edged sword with Crouch. Whilst his money undoubtedly saved the club, several of his actions also put it in real jeopardy.

 

Thanks for that, man with skate manager's name.

[John B]

Thanks for that, man with skate manager's name.

 

But it is quite true what the poster is saying.

 

 

Crouch appears to have a big heart but does not do the the right thing all the time

[Alain Perrin]

In any case, the idea that Pinnacle's bid was a leveraged buyout is deeply shocking. Was Fry REALLY unaware of that his ‘preferred bidder’ was offering to buy a catastrophically indebted club with…debt? It seems highly unlikely to me. Just as it seems extremely likely that MLT and Leon did NOT know.

 

Fry's obligation was never to the fans, only to the current creditors. Any future creditors become SEP (somebody else's problem).

[Verbal]

But it is quite true what the poster is saying.

 

 

Crouch appears to have a big heart but does not do the the right thing all the time

 

You can only be sure of that if you're ITK. FF's post is revealing but still, clearly, not the whole story. Let's hope Leon sues, just so that we can get to the truth of all this.

[John B]

You can only be sure of that if you're ITK. FF's post is revealing but still, clearly, not the whole story. Let's hope Leon sues, just so that we can get to the truth of all this.

 

I was not talking about the Pinnacle affair only but his involvement with Wilde and the involvement in getting the club in to so much debt.

 

He did it with the best intentions like MLT with Pinnacle but it may have been the wrong thing to do.

[Alain Perrin]

You can only be sure of that if you're ITK. FF's post is revealing but still, clearly, not the whole story. Let's hope Leon sues, just so that we can get to the truth of all this.

 

Like having full possession of the facts is the basis for a judgement on this forum

 

It's commonly known that Crouch funded the Pinnacle deposit. Therefore he perpetuated a sham bid. Without the funds there would have been no credibility.

 

The only question is how close were the Swiss behind the Pinnacle bid. Yes, they were quieter (and we've seen that since too), but that doesn't mean they weren't poised to write a cheque.

[Block 5]

It would be interesting to see if TL responds to Duncan's excellent post.

[hypochondriac]

Like having full possession of the facts is the basis for a judgement on this forum

 

It's commonly known that Crouch funded the Pinnacle deposit. Therefore he perpetuated a sham bid. Without the funds there would have been no credibility.

 

The only question is how close were the Swiss behind the Pinnacle bid. Yes, they were quieter (and we've seen that since too), but that doesn't mean they weren't poised to write a cheque.

 

Yawn Crouch saved the club end of.

[saint lard]

It would be interesting to see if TL responds to Duncan's excellent post.

Well he was lurking on 28/7,10.51am.

 

suppose he still holds some kind of interest,whatever that is.

[Alain Perrin]

Yawn Crouch saved the club end of.

 

Bizarre response. His money paid May's (or was it June?) wages. My question is; if he hadn't stepped up to the plate would the Swiss have come in and done the same? No one will ever really know.