Radio Hampshire presenter moaning about the moaners!

[NickG]

saying don't know what fans expect, don't know what they expect Lowe to do as the club have no money and has got a good manager in and the young players are getting there playing decent football.

 

Said the moaners are being unrealistic.

 

 

 

It is disappointing how far we have fallen but I am enjoying supporting saints this season, would love more stability and a chairman to unite the fans -but that ain't happening - IMHO if Lowe walked without that person identified it would be a disaster. Lowe out is a totally ignorant comment without an alternative.

I think JP is looking to be a good manager and am more than happy with him.

[saintcrris]

Do you work in the PR department at St Mary's???

 

Even Arsenal and Chelsea fans moan Nick its what football fans do best.

[Glasgow_Saint]

moaning about moaning - nice

[OldNick]

I had a client with me today who is close to LC and some of the other of Wilde bunch and he was saying something on the same lines. He said that fans who pay 300-400 a year expect to have big decisions above those who have invested a lot of money and perhaps a couple of million.I can see the sense in that and whilst he is not close to know the real ins and outs he is certain Allen was there but of course the truth will never come out because the fans would not forgive the clubs custodians wasting the biggest opportunity in our lifetime.

It was questioned by him that RL would ever want to sell the club, this surprised me but I did say if someone bought 29% he'd have to sell.He agreed

[alpine_saint]

I had a client with me today who is close to LC and some of the other of Wilde bunch and he was saying something on the same lines. He said that fans who pay 300-400 a year expect to have big decisions above those who have invested a lot of money and perhaps a couple of million.I can see the sense in that and whilst he is not close to know the real ins and outs he is certain Allen was there but of course the truth will never come out because the fans would not forgive the clubs custodians wasting the biggest opportunity in our lifetime.

It was questioned by him that RL would ever want to sell the club, this surprised me but I did say if someone bought 29% he'd have to sell.He agreed

 

Aye. I wonder who would top the lynching list. Probably your mate Lowe. Your client seems to have the measure of him more than you do.

[OldNick]

Aye. I wonder who would top the lynching list. Probably your mate Lowe. Your client seems to have the measure of him more than you do.

It depends who messed the deal up.If it was Lowe then yes him but what i heard it was others who looked so undecided that they didnt want to let their ties go he couldnt be bothered for the petty politics. I was told at the time time RL was fuming but as I said earlier the truth will never be allowed out whoever was to blame.For me they all would not be forgiven because they should have all been got to a meeting and some sense knocked into them.

[Long Shot]

saying don't know what fans expect, don't know what they expect Lowe to do as the club have no money and has got a good manager in and the young players are getting there playing decent football.

 

Said the moaners are being unrealistic.

 

 

 

It is disappointing how far we have fallen but I am enjoying supporting saints this season, would love more stability and a chairman to unite the fans -but that ain't happening - IMHO if Lowe walked without that person identified it would be a disaster. Lowe out is a totally ignorant comment without an alternative.

I think JP is looking to be a good manager and am more than happy with him.

 

 

if you want to be taken more seriously (and you do have interesting things to say) you would be prudent to drop the "Lowe is God" angle as it adds nothing to your gravitas.

[derry]

Lowe doesn't give the impression that he wants to sell or hand over his position/influence to a bigger investor.

[Thedelldays]

Lowe doesn't give the impression that he wants to sell or hand over his position/influence to a bigger investor.

how on gods green earth have you come to that conclusion...?

[derry]

how on gods green earth have you come to that conclusion...?

 

It's not a conclusion, it's just an impression/suspicion, call it what you like. In 12 years there has been no major investment. 10 of those years he ran the club.

[Thedelldays]

It's not a conclusion, it's just an impression/suspicion, call it what you like. In 12 years there has been no major investment. 10 of those years he ran the club.

BUT...how many were calling for "major investment" in cardiff in 2003 or in Romania in n the UEFA cup?? NO ONE..

 

it has only been in the last 3 years that "investment" has actually been a huge issue in football in england and in the last 18 months - 2 years it has been a real issue at saints..

 

but hey, lets not let that get in the way of a moan..

 

Lowe stepped aside once, albeit under pressure but he stepped aside once with a "manifesto" of promises of investment etc?......but hey, dont let THAT get in the way either...

[St Marco]

The presenter is right! We should all go to the games and be happy we have Lowe and have "a good manager" in Jan. We are very lucky to have him with all his experience. If only the world thought like this presenter there would never be any unhappyness in the world. We could all pay thousands of pounds trecking around the country watching us lose but do so with a proud smile!

[NickG]

Do you work in the PR department at St Mary's???

 

Even Arsenal and Chelsea fans moan Nick its what football fans do best.

 

I didn't think the callers were that bad actually but usually expect radio presenters to jump on the easy ride of slagging off Lowe etc -wasn't saying they were right

[Arizona]

BUT...how many were calling for "major investment" in cardiff in 2003 or in Romania in n the UEFA cup?? NO ONE..

 

it has only been in the last 3 years that "investment" has actually been a huge issue in football in england and in the last 18 months - 2 years it has been a real issue at saints..

 

but hey, lets not let that get in the way of a moan..

 

Lowe stepped aside once, albeit under pressure but he stepped aside once with a "manifesto" of promises of investment etc?......but hey, dont let THAT get in the way either...

 

Well, I was when we sold players like Bridge and brought in complete gash like Neil McCann.

[Thedelldays]

Well, I was when we sold players like Bridge and brought in complete gash like Niel McCann.

that is that sorted then...

 

well done you

 

 

NEVER ONCE read a thread of any seriousness begging for lowe to bring in a rich backer..

 

infact, I remember saints fans being proud as punch that clubs like bolton and charlton were making it public that saints were the model to build success on...

[NickG]

saying don't know what fans expect, don't know what they expect Lowe to do as the club have no money and has got a good manager in and the young players are getting there playing decent football.

 

Said the moaners are being unrealistic.

 

 

 

It is disappointing how far we have fallen but I am enjoying supporting saints this season, would love more stability and a chairman to unite the fans -but that ain't happening - IMHO if Lowe walked without that person identified it would be a disaster. Lowe out is a totally ignorant comment without an alternative.

I think JP is looking to be a good manager and am more than happy with him.

 

if you want to be taken more seriously (and you do have interesting things to say) you would be prudent to drop the "Lowe is God" angle as it adds nothing to your gravitas.

 

I don't like Lowe nor think he is a great or even good chairman. I was chuffed when Wilde came in but have realised that whatever his faults you can't say anyone is better (mean anyone at all not saying there is no-one better!). I made that mistake before and will accept him until viable alternative comes along. I still don't particularly like the guy.

 

I also don't buy this culture of he is totally to blame for everything bad and has no credit for any good stuff.

For example relegation totally his fault -therefore was the cup final totally down to him? etc.

[NickG]

The presenter is right! We should all go to the games and be happy we have Lowe and have "a good manager" in Jan. We are very lucky to have him with all his experience. If only the world thought like this presenter there would never be any unhappyness in the world. We could all pay thousands of pounds trecking around the country watching us lose but do so with a proud smile!

 

happiness is proportionate to expectations -scientific fact.

[Arizona]

that is that sorted then...

 

well done you

 

 

NEVER ONCE read a thread of any seriousness begging for lowe to bring in a rich backer..

 

infact, I remember saints fans being proud as punch that clubs like bolton and charlton were making it public that saints were the model to build success on...

 

I wonder what we are the model for now then...

 

I am pretty sure that given a bit of decent investment, we wouldn't have been relegated and ultimately, we'd be much financially better off than we are now.

 

One of the main factors in our relegation was constantly selling the likes of Richards, Bridge and Beattie and bringing them in with cheap bargains on CCC sized transfer fees. I am not saying a massive fee guarantees success, but players like McCann - £1.5m, Jackobsson - £1m, Yahia - £300k, Nilsson - £500k... FFS!

[St Marco]

happiness is proportionate to expectations -scientific fact.

 

Very true

 

But having expectations of being out of relegation trouble in the CCC is realistic. Someone who thinks we are doing well and should not complain that we are there is obviously no Saints fan.

 

A club of our size should not be in the mess we are, fact.

[NickG]

I expect us to be a top half premiership, I therefore expect us to get promoted.

 

..just not yet!

[Totton Red]

I expect us to be a top half premiership, I therefore expect us to get promoted.

 

..just not yet!

 

Was the HBOS top man writing your script?

[derry]

BUT...how many were calling for "major investment" in cardiff in 2003 or in Romania in n the UEFA cup?? NO ONE..

 

it has only been in the last 3 years that "investment" has actually been a huge issue in football in england and in the last 18 months - 2 years it has been a real issue at saints..

 

but hey, lets not let that get in the way of a moan..

 

Lowe stepped aside once, albeit under pressure but he stepped aside once with a "manifesto" of promises of investment etc?......but hey, dont let THAT get in the way either...

 

I'm not moaning about it, I supported happily in the 3rd div south and would again. I have the impression that Lowe likes what he is doing.

 

I like the football we are trying to play and understand our predicament. I pay for two seats and see over 30 matches a season. I much prefer this team to last years.

[Professor]

I wonder what we are the model for now then...

 

I am pretty sure that given a bit of decent investment, we wouldn't have been relegated and ultimately, we'd be much financially better off than we are now.

 

One of the main factors in our relegation was constantly selling the likes of Richards, Bridge and Beattie and bringing them in with cheap bargains on CCC sized transfer fees. I am not saying a massive fee guarantees success, but players like McCann - £1.5m, Jackobsson - £1m, Yahia - £300k, Nilsson - £500k... FFS!

 

The sales quoted were decided by the players concerned, not by the club. In all of those cases the club was reported to be trying to dissuade them from leaving, but no club can keep a player who wants to go. Richards to be with Hoddle at Spurs, Bridge for huge money at Chelsea and Beattie for career reasons. As for transfers in, no club can spend money it does not have, unless it has a multi-millionaire owner, which even today only about 8 or 9 clubs have.

The whole basis for Arizona's post is flawed, including the fact that the club 'invested' in a new manager and in 5 new players to try to avoid relegation. We were all disappointed, as are all 3 relegated teams every year, but there's no point trying to re-write history to find a way of saying Saints should have been immune when you find the CCC packed full of other relegated ex-Prem clubs.

[Whitey Grandad]

happiness is proportionate to expectations -scientific fact.

You've been reading Epictetus: 'Wealth consists not in having great possessions, but in having few wants'

[Totton Red]

The sales quoted were decided by the players concerned, not by the club. In all of those cases the club was reported to be trying to dissuade them from leaving, but no club can keep a player who wants to go. Richards to be with Hoddle at Spurs, Bridge for huge money at Chelsea and Beattie for career reasons. As for transfers in, no club can spend money it does not have, unless it has a multi-millionaire owner, which even today only about 8 or 9 clubs have.

The whole basis for Arizona's post is flawed, including the fact that the club 'invested' in a new manager and in 5 new players to try to avoid relegation. We were all disappointed, as are all 3 relegated teams every year, but there's no point trying to re-write history to find a way of saying Saints should have been immune when you find the CCC packed full of other relegated ex-Prem clubs.

 

I think that the post mentions investment?....did you miss this before responding?

[Arizona]

The sales quoted were decided by the players concerned, not by the club. In all of those cases the club was reported to be trying to dissuade them from leaving, but no club can keep a player who wants to go. Richards to be with Hoddle at Spurs, Bridge for huge money at Chelsea and Beattie for career reasons. As for transfers in, no club can spend money it does not have, unless it has a multi-millionaire owner, which even today only about 8 or 9 clubs have.

The whole basis for Arizona's post is flawed, including the fact that the club 'invested' in a new manager and in 5 new players to try to avoid relegation. We were all disappointed, as are all 3 relegated teams every year, but there's no point trying to re-write history to find a way of saying Saints should have been immune when you find the CCC packed full of other relegated ex-Prem clubs.

 

It's not that I am upset at our best players leaving. Every club is a selling club to a varying extent. My gripe is more the fact that every time a good player was sold, he was replaced by a cheap bargain.

 

You say no club can spend money it doesn't have. Check "investment" in the dictionary and you will sort of see what I am getting at.

 

January 2004, the squad badly needs strengthening to avoid relegation. We sell Beattie for £6m, spend £2m on McQ, bring in 3 loans and a free transfer.

[offix]

happiness is proportionate to expectations -scientific fact.

 

There must be many posters here who expect us to play the Conference, they are soooooooooo happy right now:rolleyes:

[DT]

BUT...how many were calling for "major investment" in cardiff in 2003 or in Romania in n the UEFA cup?? NO ONE..

 

it has only been in the last 3 years that "investment" has actually been a huge issue in football in england and in the last 18 months - 2 years it has been a real issue at saints..

 

but hey, lets not let that get in the way of a moan..

 

Lowe stepped aside once, albeit under pressure but he stepped aside once with a "manifesto" of promises of investment etc?......but hey, dont let THAT get in the way either...

There was one significant person calling for investment in the team at that time. Gordon Strachan.

[John B]

I wonder what we are the model for now then...

 

I am pretty sure that given a bit of decent investment, we wouldn't have been relegated and ultimately, we'd be much financially better off than we are now.

 

One of the main factors in our relegation was constantly selling the likes of Richards, Bridge and Beattie and bringing them in with cheap bargains on CCC sized transfer fees. I am not saying a massive fee guarantees success, but players like McCann - £1.5m, Jackobsson - £1m, Yahia - £300k, Nilsson - £500k... FFS!

 

 

Yes I totally agree with you on that point of buying second rate players.

 

The problem I think was caused by not having any of our home bred players coming through so we virtually had to buy a whole team.

 

To some extent it happened again when we were in the Championship Ostlund Powell Idiakez Makin Wright etc

 

Thats why I like the idea of developing youngsters and bringing in one or two quality players when we have some money.

 

Fans always want to spend but are not always correct lots wanted Richard Wright but that would probably have been a waste of money as Davis is playing well

Edited 19 September, 2008 by John B

[John B]

There was one significant person calling for investment in the team at that time. Gordon Strachan.

 

Managers are always under pressure for results they always think by spending money success will be automatic.

[John B]

It's not that I am upset at our best players leaving. Every club is a selling club to a varying extent. My gripe is more the fact that every time a good player was sold, he was replaced by a cheap bargain.

 

You say no club can spend money it doesn't have. Check "investment" in the dictionary and you will sort of see what I am getting at.

 

January 2004, the squad badly needs strengthening to avoid relegation. We sell Beattie for £6m, spend £2m on McQ, bring in 3 loans and a free transfer.

 

Yes but from a financial point of view if we had spent loads of money then and still got relegated we would have been in a bigger financial mess.

 

 

I think also if a player wants to move we should let him go - Beattie wanted to go in the summer of 2004 he did not do much after that for SFC

[up and away]

Originally Posted by Thedelldays

how on gods green earth have you come to that conclusion...?

It's not a conclusion, it's just an impression/suspicion, call it what you like. In 12 years there has been no major investment. 10 of those years he ran the club.

 

It's just a load of rubbish. Even Crouch will tell you that Lowe is prepared to sell his shares. I know of two occasions where his shares have been committed for sale should funds be produced, not his fault if the funds don't materialise.

 

As for investment, we have had nothing come near the financial advantage brought into the club by Lowe with the reverse take over. Jonah did a piece on this about how much money it actually brought into the club (several millions). Although I thought it was a tad optimistic, it is not that far off. Anyone can ask Dave Jones about these events and he is usually very approachable to even a single share holder.

 

Lowe has his faults and peccadillo's but trying to nail any current event or situation at his door just belittles your argument. All the major share holders have committed faults, it's a question of how bad the decisions were in light of circumstances. Then look at how much good they can do with the skills / assets they bring to the table.

[sadoldgit]

There was a very good article in The Times the other day which laid into the Newcastle United supporters and ripped to shreads the myth that Newcastle are a "big club" and any more deserving of success than anyone else.

 

We are no different. We are not a big club and do not deserve anything handed on a plate. If wasn't for a certain MLT we would probably have been here years ago.

 

For all the bleating about Lowe, Burley etc. we have no right to be higher than we are and it seems like many fans are unable to adjust their expectations accordingly.

 

Of couse we all want to be up there playing the best and winning things, but we are SFC not Manchester United and these days when money is king we have to cut our cloth.

 

If people want to bail out that is there choice, but football clubs, like dogs, are for life, not just Christmas.

 

I hope that the present set up are given time, and by that I don't just mean a few months, but I fear that if things don't improve win wise very soon the witch hunt brigade will be out again in force.

[NickG]

good post

[derry]

It's just a load of rubbish. Even Crouch will tell you that Lowe is prepared to sell his shares. I know of two occasions where his shares have been committed for sale should funds be produced, not his fault if the funds don't materialise.

 

As for investment, we have had nothing come near the financial advantage brought into the club by Lowe with the reverse take over. Jonah did a piece on this about how much money it actually brought into the club (several millions). Although I thought it was a tad optimistic, it is not that far off. Anyone can ask Dave Jones about these events and he is usually very approachable to even a single share holder.

 

Lowe has his faults and peccadillo's but trying to nail any current event or situation at his door just belittles your argument. All the major share holders have committed faults, it's a question of how bad the decisions were in light of circumstances. Then look at how much good they can do with the skills / assets they bring to the table.

 

All I said was I thought Lowe liked the job he was doing in football. In the last 12 years he has made no move to move aside, or to bring in influential investment. That as I said, gives me the suspicion/impression he wants to stay.

 

In addition, I suggest you don't try and read something or see hidden agendas in simple statements. I'm not argueing any particular case.

 

I don't like Lowe's public image that much, I hate the way we have declined, but I started in Div 3S, and enjoyed it, hence I have no problem with the rollercoaster that is football.

 

I am supportive in the circumstances, of the clubs present strategy. In any event whether we support it or not, it is happening. It may end in failure, then so do a lot of theories. It could also be the best thing that happened to the club for it's long term future.

[Arizona]

Yes but from a financial point of view if we had spent loads of money then and still got relegated we would have been in a bigger financial mess.

 

 

I think also if a player wants to move we should let him go - Beattie wanted to go in the summer of 2004 he did not do much after that for SFC

 

If we had spent a bit of money on the defence, we would almost certainly have stayed up IMO.Yes I know if we were relegated, we would have players we couldn't afford, but we could still have sold them. Look at who we brough in. A kid from Spuds and a left back who couldn't get into the Prem's second worse defence.

 

If we'd spent say another £4m on a decent LB, RB and centre half, we'd almost certainly have avoided the drop. If nothing else we wouldn't have thrown away those 7 points against Villa, Everton and Middlesborough. t was a false ecconomy. If you think that would have risked the financial stability of the club, look at where we are now. Bottom of the CCC having to play our youth team to stave off administration.

 

I agree, if a player wants out, we should let him go. However he then needs to be replaced.

[John Smith]

saying something on the same lines. He said that fans who pay 300-400 a year expect to have big decisions above those who have invested a lot of money and perhaps a couple of million.

 

To pick up on this little part of your 'quote' nickh, as nobody seems to so far, I thought I'd add something. It is this type of viewpoint that irritates me somewhat, and to be fair, I can't quite decide who you are attributing this 'quote' (quote is in brackets as I'm not saying you are relaying verbatim) to. But when people suggest that only money is important when it comes to your opinion is the only measure, is ignoring the human side of the matter, particularly when it comes down to a recreational activity, such as a sport.

 

First off, just to clarify, I accept that investing large amounts of money into a 'business' gives you the 'right' to 'make' those decisions when they need to be made.

 

However, my problem comes when people infer that their opinion is the only opinion worth considering. Just ask the Newcastle chairman how his own opinion has jeopardised his position and his 'love' for the club. Because what people in position such as LC, Wilde and Lowe have and are currently in (moreso Lowe, as he has less personal investment and had a higher degree of responsibility), fail to recognise is that when it comes to investment, money is one measure, a measure that helps create a structure, the other measure is time. The measure of time, largely puts us all on an even keel. No mans time is more important than another mans time (or woman or child). The more time you put into something, the more 'involved' you are. Your opinion is important as experience cannot be bought.

 

The trouble comes with extrapolating day to day business decisions from a mass of experience, and so, by default, money outweighs time as it is a measure of investment which is quantifiable. But, quite often, other 'investments', such as time' are overlooked and devalued. We all have a limited amount of 'time' on this mortal coil, and if we choose to invest that time in supporting a football club, as many of you know, it is a major investment of time and a lot of sacrifices are made. If any of us had the available income that Wilde, Crouch or Lowe have, would we also 'invest' that money into SFC, as these three have done? I think the majority would answer yes. Just because we don't have that available money, doesn't mean we are less committed to SFC than someone who does have the money to invest.

 

I know it is a little off track, but this si a flaw in many people I know that have money. Often they substitute life worth with material worth and therefore, measure you based on your wealth rather than your contribution. This is where 'money talks', however, for those of us that don't have money, we know that power resides with the masses and whereas money talks to the rich, people talk to each other.

 

When people that own 'clubs' start to ignore the masses and their impact on the 'club', they will learn a very valuable lesson. The Newcastle Chairman is currently learning that lesson, my question is, has Lowe? I will only know this answer when Saints recover and have money to invest, only then will I know if Lowe has learned what this 'club' means to us!

 

Not meaning to turn this into an anti-Lowe thread, the original 'quote' was made by Crouch or Wilde or an associate, but those words are the attitude I associate with the SLH board from when Lowe took charge the first time, and todays board (and all those in between).

[up and away]

All I said was I thought Lowe liked the job he was doing in football. In the last 12 years he has made no move to move aside, or to bring in influential investment. That as I said, gives me the suspicion/impression he wants to stay.

 

In addition, I suggest you don't try and read something or see hidden agendas in simple statements. I'm not argueing any particular case.

 

I don't like Lowe's public image that much, I hate the way we have declined, but I started in Div 3S, and enjoyed it, hence I have no problem with the rollercoaster that is football.

 

I am supportive in the circumstances, of the clubs present strategy. In any event whether we support it or not, it is happening. It may end in failure, then so do a lot of theories. It could also be the best thing that happened to the club for it's long term future.

 

But I did not have to read anything obtuse or a hidden agenda, you clearly stated “Lowe doesn't give the impression that he wants to sell or hand over his position/influence to a bigger investor.”

When you sign share proxies for an agreed price, there is no way back if someone subsequently meets that price, whether they be a big or small investor. As far as intent to sell is concerned, you will find it difficult to get a more cast iron case. You even had acceptance from Crouch during his Rupert and Michael period that their agreed price was fair! You could have argued the case that Lowe et al are not prepared to let their shares go for bread today and the possibility of jam tomorrow. We can all see now with hindsight (though some had the vision) that it would have been so much better for Saints if Wilde, Crouch and Lowe came to an agreement in the first instance. That normally always is the case when one person does not have the money to control and invest. We may well have this situation develop in the future with Fulthorpe and without the mega bucks it is always going to be better for the main parties to come to agreement, rather than a ****ing contest.

And as far as investment is concerned, the reverse takeover by Lowe has brought more finance to the club than Wilde and Crouch combined to this date.

I strongly believe the path we are taking now is the correct one and would have backed either one of Crouch, Wilde or Lowe if they had taken it. I would be reasonably happy if Lowe left the scene and Wilde continued alone in this manner, irrespective of past errors, as long as we make the best of what we have. I hardly know of any fan that does not prefer Lowe to keep a double-bagged low profile, but that does not mean I don’t see him as being an asset to Saints, but not at the expense of serious investment.

 

[Chez]

I'm not moaning about it, I supported happily in the 3rd div south and would again. I have the impression that Lowe likes what he is doing.

 

I like the football we are trying to play and understand our predicament. I pay for two seats and see over 30 matches a season. I much prefer this team to last years.

 

Can I ask why do you prefer this team to last? Can I also ask if should we continue to win 1, draw 1 and lose 4 games in every 6, will that preference still continue? Also are you going to be happy paying £380 a pop to watch us in League 1 next season?

[Chez]

but football clubs, like dogs, are for life, not just Christmas.

 

15,000 went walkies on Wednesday.

[derry]

Can I ask why do you prefer this team to last? Can I also ask if should we continue to win 1, draw 1 and lose 4 games in every 6, will that preference still continue? Also are you going to be happy paying £380 a pop to watch us in League 1 next season?

 

Because I like their style and commitment, yes and yes, at least 2 tickets.

[derry]

But I did not have to read anything obtuse or a hidden agenda, you clearly stated “Lowe doesn't give the impression that he wants to sell or hand over his position/influence to a bigger investor.”

 

When you sign share proxies for an agreed price, there is no way back if someone subsequently meets that price, whether they be a big or small investor. As far as intent to sell is concerned, you will find it difficult to get a more cast iron case. You even had acceptance from Crouch during his Rupert and Michael period that their agreed price was fair! You could have argued the case that Lowe et al are not prepared to let their shares go for bread today and the possibility of jam tomorrow. We can all see now with hindsight (though some had the vision) that it would have been so much better for Saints if Wilde, Crouch and Lowe came to an agreement in the first instance. That normally always is the case when one person does not have the money to control and invest. We may well have this situation develop in the future with Fulthorpe and without the mega bucks it is always going to be better for the main parties to come to agreement, rather than a ****ing contest.

 

And as far as investment is concerned, the reverse takeover by Lowe has brought more finance to the club than Wilde and Crouch combined to this date.

 

I strongly believe the path we are taking now is the correct one and would have backed either one of Crouch, Wilde or Lowe if they had taken it. I would be reasonably happy if Lowe left the scene and Wilde continued alone in this manner, irrespective of past errors, as long as we make the best of what we have. I hardly know of any fan that does not prefer Lowe to keep a double-bagged low profile, but that does not mean I don’t see him as being an asset to Saints, but not at the expense of serious investment.

 

 

 

You might have been in a position to verify Lowe's acceptance, to me it was rumour with a thousand others. Your last paragraph is just about where I am coming from.

 

As I am in no position to know, is Lowe actively chasing investment/the sale of the club?

[OldNick]

To pick up on this little part of your 'quote' nickh, as nobody seems to so far, I thought I'd add something. It is this type of viewpoint that irritates me somewhat, and to be fair, I can't quite decide who you are attributing this 'quote' (quote is in brackets as I'm not saying you are relaying verbatim) to. But when people suggest that only money is important when it comes to your opinion is the only measure, is ignoring the human side of the matter, particularly when it comes down to a recreational activity, such as a sport.

 

First off, just to clarify, I accept that investing large amounts of money into a 'business' gives you the 'right' to 'make' those decisions when they need to be made.

 

However, my problem comes when people infer that their opinion is the only opinion worth considering. Just ask the Newcastle chairman how his own opinion has jeopardised his position and his 'love' for the club. Because what people in position such as LC, Wilde and Lowe have and are currently in (moreso Lowe, as he has less personal investment and had a higher degree of responsibility), fail to recognise is that when it comes to investment, money is one measure, a measure that helps create a structure, the other measure is time. The measure of time, largely puts us all on an even keel. No mans time is more important than another mans time (or woman or child). The more time you put into something, the more 'involved' you are. Your opinion is important as experience cannot be bought.

 

The trouble comes with extrapolating day to day business decisions from a mass of experience, and so, by default, money outweighs time as it is a measure of investment which is quantifiable. But, quite often, other 'investments', such as time' are overlooked and devalued. We all have a limited amount of 'time' on this mortal coil, and if we choose to invest that time in supporting a football club, as many of you know, it is a major investment of time and a lot of sacrifices are made. If any of us had the available income that Wilde, Crouch or Lowe have, would we also 'invest' that money into SFC, as these three have done? I think the majority would answer yes. Just because we don't have that available money, doesn't mean we are less committed to SFC than someone who does have the money to invest.

 

I know it is a little off track, but this si a flaw in many people I know that have money. Often they substitute life worth with material worth and therefore, measure you based on your wealth rather than your contribution. This is where 'money talks', however, for those of us that don't have money, we know that power resides with the masses and whereas money talks to the rich, people talk to each other.

 

When people that own 'clubs' start to ignore the masses and their impact on the 'club', they will learn a very valuable lesson. The Newcastle Chairman is currently learning that lesson, my question is, has Lowe? I will only know this answer when Saints recover and have money to invest, only then will I know if Lowe has learned what this 'club' means to us!

 

Not meaning to turn this into an anti-Lowe thread, the original 'quote' was made by Crouch or Wilde or an associate, but those words are the attitude I associate with the SLH board from when Lowe took charge the first time, and todays board (and all those in between).

JS niceto have your views again although npt always of course....

I can see both sides, were the fans right to be uneasy and cause unrest so Hoddle was not appointed (ON this one im with them) HR was starting to feel the fans abuse (would he have built a team now) and this can go for all decisions good and bad.At least if 1 person or the board make the decision as they are the ones who take the flak they should be given free reign to take the club forward their way. This forum shows a bunch of fans cant even agree on the same team to play and so one man or a couple are far better than a big committee.

Again if Im prepared to put £1m in the pot should the person who puts nothing in or just a few hundrd pounds have the same say.I beleieve not and that is the way of the world.

The initial piece said to me came from a view of the friend of some of the LC bunch but not credited to him or them but his view.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

 

If people want to bail out that is there choice, but football clubs, like dogs, are for life, not just Christmas.

 

This is the crux of the problem - people (and Lowe) have to understand that what you say is true for the die-hard supporter (say 12k-14k). If you want the club to survive and prosper, you must appeal to those people interested in watching professional football "locally", and persuade them that it is worth coming.

 

The club doesn't and shouldn't exist just for the die-hards and stuff everyone else. People who criticize "plastic fans" are just being silly. They are the customers you need to get in order to generate sufficient income to push on. And to do that you need to be winning matches again (as people have said on other threads).

 

I have no magic solutions to the financial situation, but I just do not believe that some solid, experienced, stronger players could not have been found at a reasonable cost to give the side some solidity, and mental toughness. That wasn't going to happen with the appointment of a coach inexperienced in English non-Prem football, and a naive belief in the Academy's output.

 

Just maybe the way forward (temporarily) might be to cut the cost of the Academy to the bone, keep only the youngsters who are good enough for the first team , and get in some experience as soon as possible.

 

Crewe are the only team who have made anything of trying to survive on youth, and they have only had fleeting stay in the CCC. It doesn't and hasn't ever really worked.

[OldNick]

This is the crux of the problem - people (and Lowe) have to understand that what you say is true for the die-hard supporter (say 12k-14k). If you want the club to survive and prosper, you must appeal to those people interested in watching professional football "locally", and persuade them that it is worth coming.

 

The club doesn't and shouldn't exist just for the die-hards and stuff everyone else. People who criticize "plastic fans" are just being silly. They are the customers you need to get in order to generate sufficient income to push on. And to do that you need to be winning matches again (as people have said on other threads).

 

I have no magic solutions to the financial situation, but I just do not believe that some solid, experienced, stronger players could not have been found at a reasonable cost to give the side some solidity, and mental toughness. That wasn't going to happen with the appointment of a coach inexperienced in English non-Prem football, and a naive belief in the Academy's output.

 

Just maybe the way forward (temporarily) might be to cut the cost of the Academy to the bone, keep only the youngsters who are good enough for the first team , and get in some experience as soon as possible.

 

Crewe are the only team who have made anything of trying to survive on youth, and they have only had fleeting stay in the CCC. It doesn't and hasn't ever really worked.

A good post. The problem I see with that is the league is full of those and clubs get nowhere with a team of them. I believe (maybe falsely) that it is not about this season.We have the sole aim, of staying up and consolodating.We dont go into admin but haver the nucleus for next season to push on with a team that has had its teeth cut at this level and with a little bit of addition then goes to higher positions.

We have tried the seasoned pros on big wages and that has not done the business.I still feel we were too soon on HR's back and he jumped as he could see the writing on the wall.We were on the margins of the top four when he left with the transfer window beckoning, the 2nd half of the season is always the time the promotion teams push on and he would have got us there or thereabouts just look at the squads power then. I know this is controversial but thatr is how I see it.