We may have underestimated George Osborne

[dune]

I was watching Politics weekly last night and Michael Portillo revealed that the intricate details of the deal offered to the Liberals had been worked out, by George, weeks ago. If this is true then I take back a lot of my criticism, although I still don't like him, because the way the Liberals have been got on board and a situation created that should last 5 years is brave and nothing short of genious. If the coalition was weak it would only have lasted 2 years tops and that would be electoral suicide, but George has given the Liberals fair concessions and has knitted them into the cabinet. Not only this but when 5 years is up the Liberals are going to be ****ed making it a Tory v Labour race again, but I envisage that due to the closely tied nature of the coalition the country will have pulled through the worst in 5 years meaning that this shaky start could well be the beggining of another Conservative generation of power.

[John B]

I was watching Politics weekly last night and Michael Portillo revealed that the intricate details of the deal offered to the Liberals had been worked out, by George, weeks ago. If this is true then I take back a lot of my criticism, although I still don't like him, because the way the Liberals have been got on board and a situation created that should last 5 years is brave and nothing short of genious. If the coalition was weak it would only have lasted 2 years tops and that would be electoral suicide, but George has given the Liberals fair concessions and has knitted them into the cabinet. Not only this but when 5 years is up the Liberals are going to be ****ed making it a Tory v Labour race again, but I envisage that due to the closely tied nature of the coalition the country will have pulled through the worst in 5 years meaning that this shaky start could well be the beggining of another Conservative generation of power.

 

I dont like him too but he is shrewd Politican who can chance his views at the drop of a hat

 

I remember in the TV debate with Darling and Clegg on Channel 4 he put Vince down saying something like only Labour or Conservative would be forming the next Government an Vince's Policies were irrelevant

[dune]

I dont like him too but he is shrewd Politican who can chance his views at the drop of a hat

 

I remember in the TV debate with Darling and Clegg on Channel 4 he put Vince down saying something like only Labour or Conservative would be forming the next Government an Vince's Policies were irrelevant

 

I don't think he is a good politician in the accepted sense because Ken Clarke is the role model for a good politician, I think George Osbourne is more in the mould of a Peter Mandelson - he'll never be liked but he's a very astute behind the scenes schemer. GO will never win the Conservatives votes based on his own popularity, but he's certainly smart and calculating.

 

Many members of the Conservative parliamentary party are currently not happy about the concessions given to the Liberals, but the Osbourne plan is a plan for the long term. Unlike some on the left that wishfully think the Conservative party is going to implode over the concessions I disagree, I think that they'll see the bigger picture as I have and will realise that the 5 term parliament and the Liberal concessions are all geared towards the creation of several terms of Tory rule. I love the way the Liberals have been granted a referendum on AV particularly - they see it as a step towards PR, but I see it as a minor inconvenience - if the Tories lose the vote it could help the Liberals, but I don't think the referendums conclusion is to be taken for granted. I've looked at the AV system and it's bonkers and I don't think the public will vote in favour.

 

18 years of Thatcher rule started during difficult times and she was unpopular during the first term, it will in my opinion be the same this time and providing Cameron plays it smart and has his Falklands moment (not a war necessarily but wouldn't it be an irony if the Argies get put in their place over the oil dispute!) the future can be very bright for the Conservatives.

 

Be afraid my Socialist friends, be very afraid.....

[John B]

I don't think he is a good politician in the accepted sense because Ken Clarke is the role model for a good politician, I think George Osbourne is more in the mould of a Peter Mandelson - he'll never be liked but he's a very astute behind the scenes schemer. GO will never win the Conservatives votes based on his own popularity, but he's certainly smart and calculating.

 

Many members of the Conservative parliamentary party are currently not happy about the concessions given to the Liberals, but the Osbourne plan is a plan for the long term. Unlike some on the left that wishfully think the Conservative party is going to implode over the concessions I disagree, I think that they'll see the bigger picture as I have and will realise that the 5 term parliament and the Liberal concessions are all geared towards the creation of several terms of Tory rule. I love the way the Liberals have been granted a referendum on AV particularly - they see it as a step towards PR, but I see it as a minor inconvenience - if the Tories lose the vote it could help the Liberals, but I don't think the referendums conclusion is to be taken for granted. I've looked at the AV system and it's bonkers and I don't think the public will vote in favour.

 

18 years of Thatcher rule started during difficult times and she was unpopular during the first term, it will in my opinion be the same this time and providing Cameron plays it smart and has his Falklands moment (not a war necessarily but wouldn't it be an irony if the Argies get put in their place over the oil dispute!) the future can be very bright for the Conservatives.

 

Be afraid my Socialist friends, be very afraid.....

 

By Shrewd I mean he senses an oppurtunity to gain advantage for the Conservative Party

 

 

Inheritance Tax Reducing NI etc

 

 

Clarke is completely different a true honest politican who discusses the Issues.

 

 

Although I dont agree with the Daily Mail I sometimes read some of it and today after reading comments about Cortese I noticed Hitchen suggesting that the new Conservative/Liberal Government was to the Left of New Labour and there w ould be problems but only time will tell

[dune]

Although I dont agree with the Daily Mail I sometimes read some of it and today after reading comments about Cortese I noticed Hitchen suggesting that the new Conservative/Liberal Government was to the Left of New Labour and there w ould be problems but only time will tell

 

Yes, the Conservatives are no longer the "nasty party", but the "nice party".

 

I notice that the Tories have made sure the Home Office has no lefties in it though...

[John B]

Yes, the Conservatives are no longer the "nasty party", but the "nice party".

 

I notice that the Tories have made sure the Home Office has no lefties in it though...

 

But Ken Clarke is Justice Secretary

[dune]

But Ken Clarke is Justice Secretary

 

And I think he'll do a very good job. The control freak Labour regime has eroded so many civil liberties and even sought to rip up Magna Carta! Under a wise head such as Kens it'll be a sea change from the Socialist Big Brother approach. When George Orwell wrote 1984 he should have called the book New Labour 2004.

[trousers]

IMO it'll be the 'George Osborne' factor that strains this coalition more than anything else. To me, the dream ticket was to have Clarke back as chancellor with Cable as his number 2 and a sideways move for Osborne to Business Secretary.

 

This is the one area I believe cameron hasn't acted "in the interests of the country" but in the interests of loyalty to his friend (that said, loyalty isn't a bad facet for the leader of our country to have)

[View From The Top]

Be afraid my Socialist friends, be very afraid.....

 

I'll think you'll find many of us are chuffed how it's panned out as all those Liberal votes will go straight to Labour next time unless the coalition works.

 

In addition, forgive me for not having an erection for a government that has been in power for a whole 2 days.

[badgerx16]

 

In addition, forgive me for not having an erection for a government that has been in power for a whole 2 days.

I get the feeling we will have new thread started by Dune/Stanley every day until the end of this Parliament :mad:

[John B]

And I think he'll do a very good job. The control freak Labour regime has eroded so many civil liberties and even sought to rip up Magna Carta! Under a wise head such as Kens it'll be a sea change from the Socialist Big Brother approach. When George Orwell wrote 1984 he should have called the book New Labour 2004.

 

I have heard a lot about the erosion of civil liberties so what has been done to make you come to that conclusion.

 

 

 

I was caught by a speed camera doing 36 MPH up Lances Hill is that an erosion of my civil liberty or should I have stuck to the Spped limit which I thought was 40 anyway

[Johnny Bognor]

This is the one area I believe cameron hasn't acted "in the interests of the country" but in the interests of loyalty to his friend (that said, loyalty isn't a bad facet for the leader of our country to have)

 

Which doesn't look good for the Millibands. One brother standing against another is not good IMO. You should support your brother or sister.

[GenevaSaint]

I was watching Politics weekly last night and Michael Portillo revealed that the intricate details of the deal offered to the Liberals had been worked out, by George, weeks ago. If this is true then I take back a lot of my criticism, although I still don't like him, because the way the Liberals have been got on board and a situation created that should last 5 years is brave and nothing short of genious.

 

Dune what that says to me is that weeks ago the Tories were planning for failure.

 

One other issue, being a good politician and a good chancellor are two different things. :-)

[Saint George]

I have heard a lot about the erosion of civil liberties so what has been done to make you come to that conclusion.

 

 

 

I was caught by a speed camera doing 36 MPH up Lances Hill is that an erosion of my civil liberty or should I have stuck to the Spped limit which I thought was 40 anyway

 

It's happened in every aspect of British life....If the prolonged erosion of liberties and increase in Government control and consequent dependence had happened all in one go, it would have probably resulted in civil war.

 

The fact it's been obtained by 'creep'....... Every year a little bit more. Each time never quite enough to get the population really riled....Untill what you've ended up with has eventually become the new 'normal'...So much so that peeps like you are even questioning the fact you've lost anything at all.

 

Not to mention you now have a whole generation born into it and know no different at all.

 

Now about your speeding ticket...Do you honestly believe that when speed limits were introduced into Law....that the 'Spirit and intent' of that Law was to catch and prosecute 'every single' motorist that drove 'above' that arbitrary speed?

 

Ever seen the movie the Trueman show?.....Step out from the set for a while and you'll get to see the real picture....trust me, it ain't pretty.

 

Ben Franklin said it best

 

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"

 

"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power"

 

"A great Empire, like a great Cake, is most easily diminished at the Edges"

[dune]

Talking of speeding tickets did you know that in Oxfordshire not one driver with a foreign plate has received a speeding ticket in the past 3 years. I guess it's the same all over Britain. So if you want to be able to flout the law buy a Polish car.

[buctootim]

I dont like him too but he is shrewd Politican who can chance his views at the drop of a hat

 

I remember in the TV debate with Darling and Clegg on Channel 4 he put Vince down saying something like only Labour or Conservative would be forming the next Government an Vince's Policies were irrelevant

 

Not that shrewd then

[John B]

It's happened in every aspect of British life....If the prolonged erosion of liberties and increase in Government control and consequent dependence had happened all in one go, it would have probably resulted in civil war.

 

The fact it's been obtained by 'creep'....... Every year a little bit more. Each time never quite enough to get the population really riled....Untill what you've ended up with has eventually become the new 'normal'...So much so that peeps like you are even questioning the fact you've lost anything at all.

 

Not to mention you now have a whole generation born into it and know no different at all.

 

Now about your speeding ticket...Do you honestly believe that when speed limits were introduced into Law....that the 'Spirit and intent' of that Law was to catch and prosecute 'every single' motorist that drove 'above' that arbitrary speed?

 

Ever seen the movie the Trueman show?.....Step out from the set for a while and you'll get to see the real picture....trust me, it ain't pretty.

 

Ben Franklin said it best

 

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"

 

"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power"

 

"A great Empire, like a great Cake, is most easily diminished at the Edges"

 

So nothing Specific then about the erosion of Civil Liberties.

 

 

With regard to speeding tickets instead of a fine I went for what I term corrective training where it showed how keeping to the speed limit can save lives.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I have heard a lot about the erosion of civil liberties so what has been done to make you come to that conclusion.

 

 

 

I was caught by a speed camera doing 36 MPH up Lances Hill is that an erosion of my civil liberty or should I have stuck to the Spped limit which I thought was 40 anyway

 

You must live in a different world John. Have you not seen the CCTV watching your every move. The fact that the government now keeps enormous amounts of data on you. The end of the jury. The right to hunt foxes, the right to smoke in somebody business. The right to freedom of speech, the rright to emploty who you like etc etc etc

[John B]

You must live in a different world John. Have you not seen the CCTV watching your every move. The fact that the government now keeps enormous amounts of data on you. The end of the jury. The right to hunt foxes, the right to smoke in somebody business. The right to freedom of speech, the rright to emploty who you like etc etc etc

 

Oh I see I did not see them as erosion of civil liberties I saw most of them as good ideas.

 

 

No Fox Hunting No Smoking in Public Places CCTV to reduce Crime

 

but I suppose it is an erosion of civil liberties but in general it makes me feel better.

 

So are the Tories going to repeal Fox Hunting and Smoking in Public/Work Places

 

 

Not sure the what the Government will do with the information that I support SFC

[John B]

Talking of speeding tickets did you know that in Oxfordshire not one driver with a foreign plate has received a speeding ticket in the past 3 years. I guess it's the same all over Britain. So if you want to be able to flout the law buy a Polish car.

 

Or they dont speed;)

 

By the way apparently not many speed cameras actually work

[View From The Top]

Oh, I get it now. The ban on fox hunting and the ban on smoking in public places are an erosion of civil liberties.

 

I'm sure the tory government will be rowing them back with alacrity. The same will also be true of CCTV. I'm quite sure than no more CCTV cameras will go up and we will see the majority of them removed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yeah, right.

[Thedelldays]

it is those average speed cameras the do my head in...

 

would not be surprised if the popped up at every motorway junction

[View From The Top]

it is those average speed cameras the do my head in...

 

would not be surprised if the popped up at every motorway junction

 

I drive M6 J13 - J10 everyday and go through tho "average 50" speed cameras at 60mph - 70mph (when possible) safe in the knowledge that the signs may be there but the cameras are most certainly not.

 

It's been a cheap and effective way of slowing traffic as it's the fear of the cameras that does it.

[Thedelldays]

I drive M6 J13 - J10 everyday and go through tho "average 50" speed cameras at 60mph - 70mph (when possible) safe in the knowledge that the signs may be there but the cameras are most certainly not.

 

It's been a cheap and effective way of slowing traffic as it's the fear of the cameras that does it.

 

is it true that they cant "snap" you if you change lane...?

 

they have put cones out to seperate the lanes here on the A38 so you cant change...adds to the rumour

[Saint George]

So nothing Specific then about the erosion of Civil Liberties.

 

 

With regard to speeding tickets instead of a fine I went for what I term corrective training where it showed how keeping to the speed limit can save lives.

 

As for specifics.....It's all around you. You just need to open your eyes....You've been the victim of so much "corrective training" in one form or another over the years, you're never going to accept anything from me, or anyone else...The fact you totally ignored my question about speed limits says volumes...........To see the big picture, you're going to have to brake down that 'Set wall' yourself.

 

Just sit down one day and count up all the ways the Government, both Central and Local has some input in controlling and/or restricting your life.....From Garbage bin laws.....To MOT certificates.....Then look around at the numerous ways your Government is 'telling' you what to do.....Look at the pollution of Government signs that are everywhere!....On the road, on the streets, in buildings, on TV, in the news papers. in the schools.

 

Hell, you can't even stand up at a Soccer game anymore...Why not?....No other reason than the 'Government says you can't......how laughable is that?

[View From The Top]

As for specifics.....It's all around you. You just need to open your eyes....You've been the victim of so much "corrective training" in one form or another over the years, you're never going to accept anything from me, or anyone else...The fact you totally ignored my question about speed limits says volumes...........To see the big picture, you're going to have to brake down that 'Set wall' yourself.

 

Just sit down one day and count up all the ways the Government, both Central and Local has some input in controlling and/or restricting your life.....From Garbage bin laws.....To MOT certificates.....Then look around at the numerous ways your Government is 'telling' you what to do.....Look at the pollution of Government signs that are everywhere!....On the road, on the streets, in buildings, on TV, in the news papers. in the schools.

 

Hell, you can't even stand up at a Soccer game anymore...Why not?....No other reason than the 'Government says you can't......how laughable is that?

 

I'd forgotten how the alzheimer's had made you totally gaga.

[John B]

As for specifics.....It's all around you. You just need to open your eyes....You've been the victim of so much "corrective training" in one form or another over the years, you're never going to accept anything from me, or anyone else...The fact you totally ignored my question about speed limits says volumes...........To see the big picture, you're going to have to brake down that 'Set wall' yourself.

 

Just sit down one day and count up all the ways the Government, both Central and Local has some input in controlling and/or restricting your life.....From Garbage bin laws.....To MOT certificates.....Then look around at the numerous ways your Government is 'telling' you what to do.....Look at the pollution of Government signs that are everywhere!....On the road, on the streets, in buildings, on TV, in the news papers. in the schools.

 

Hell, you can't even stand up at a Soccer game anymore...Why not?....No other reason than the 'Government says you can't......how laughable is that?

 

Well you do seem to be well informed

[buctootim]

It's happened in every aspect of British life....If the prolonged erosion of liberties and increase in Government control and consequent dependence had happened all in one go, it would have probably resulted in civil war.

 

The fact it's been obtained by 'creep'....... Every year a little bit more. Each time never quite enough to get the population really riled....Untill what you've ended up with has eventually become the new 'normal'...So much so that peeps like you are even questioning the fact you've lost anything at all.

 

Not to mention you now have a whole generation born into it and know no different at all.

 

Now about your speeding ticket...Do you honestly believe that when speed limits were introduced into Law....that the 'Spirit and intent' of that Law was to catch and prosecute 'every single' motorist that drove 'above' that arbitrary speed?

 

Ever seen the movie the Trueman show?.....Step out from the set for a while and you'll get to see the real picture....trust me, it ain't pretty.

 

Ben Franklin said it best

 

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"

 

"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power"

 

"A great Empire, like a great Cake, is most easily diminished at the Edges"

 

 

You do talk ********. Is that the best you can do - Britains fearsome garbage bin laws and the authoritarian 'only safe cars on the road' MOT requirements?

 

Louisiana and the US in general has some of the most authoritarian state and federal laws anywhere. Stop and Identify statutes where you have to identify yourself to any police officer who feels like it. At least five different internal security agencies. The National Security Agency's ability to spy on anyone without a warrant. Compulsion to have driving licence and documents with you at all times when in a car. Despite what you like to portray, there really isnt anything special about the US.

Edited 14 May, 2010 by buctootim

[Causer]

ID Cards, 28 days without charge, restriction of trial by jury, the number of organisations able to use anti terror legislation(including the power to search you mail). These are just a few examples of the actions of the Government over the last 13 years.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Oh, I get it now. The ban on fox hunting and the ban on smoking in public places are an erosion of civil liberties.

 

 

You should not cherry pick VFT and acknowledge that we are not as much of a free society any more. The fox hunting ban was an assault on a minority because the stasi disliked the people that did it as much as the act itself. A very expensive commission concluded that licensing hunts was the way forward. Some League Against Cruel Sports leaders even formed the Middle Way Group because they bothered to meet the community who do it to understand them. The Nazi's banned hunting and that just about sums up the former Labour government. Control freaks.

 

Freedom is a very precious commodity and you cannot cherry pick what you dislike and what you like. You should be able to say what you like whether you are the racist, the muslim extremist David Icke you have to have confidence in your argument to win properly.

[View From The Top]

ID Cards,

 

You mean the one none of us have?

 

restriction of trial by jury

 

You mean the ONE case which had collapsed 3 times due to jury nobbling?

 

You also fail to mention that the 28 day terror law can only be implemented on the orders of a judge who have to weigh the evidence presented.

 

Want a wager on whether the new government will row them back? I'll quite happily have a tenner on "not a ******* chance".

[View From The Top]

Oh, I get it now. The ban on fox hunting and the ban on smoking in public places are an erosion of civil liberties.

 

 

You should not cherry pick VFT and acknowledge that we are not as much of a free society any more. The fox hunting ban was an assault on a minority because the stasi disliked the people that did it as much as the act itself. A very expensive commission concluded that licensing hunts was the way forward. Some League Against Cruel Sports leaders even formed the Middle Way Group because they bothered to meet the community who do it to understand them. The Nazi's banned hunting and that just about sums up the former Labour government. Control freaks.

 

Freedom is a very precious commodity and you cannot cherry pick what you dislike and what you like. You should be able to say what you like whether you are the racist, the muslim extremist David Icke you have to have confidence in your argument to win properly.

 

Yeah, fox hunting is a clear case of state control. I'm outraged by it, really I am.

 

And how dare they stop smoking in public places. 'kin nazis.

 

I've recently discovered that it's a law to make us wear seatbelts. The bastards.

[Causer]

You mean the one none of us have?

 

 

 

You mean the ONE case which had collapsed 3 times due to jury nobbling?

 

You also fail to mention that the 28 day terror law can only be implemented on the orders of a judge who have to weigh the evidence presented.

 

Want a wager on whether the new government will row them back? I'll quite happily have a tenner on "not a ******* chance".

 

Id Cards would have been introduced after the election as Alan Johnson said. Now we have two sensible parties in Government they have 'rowed back' and pledged to abolish them/

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/henryporter/2010/may/12/coalition-proposals-civil-rights - More applications for cases without jury trial.

 

Article also details some planned 'rowing back' from the coaltion.

[View From The Top]

Id Cards would have been introduced after the election as Alan Johnson said. Now we have two sensible parties in Government they have 'rowed back' and pledged to abolish them/

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/henryporter/2010/may/12/coalition-proposals-civil-rights - More applications for cases without jury trial.

 

Article also details some planned 'rowing back' from the coaltion.

 

So we haven't had ID cards and there has only been ONE case.

 

Real scary big bother that is. I'm heading for the hills.

 

*Liking the proposed scrapping of some of the laws and the "assumption of innocence".

Edited 14 May, 2010 by View From The Top

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

 

Yeah, fox hunting is a clear case of state control. I'm outraged by it, really I am.

 

And how dare they stop smoking in public places. 'kin nazis.

 

I've recently discovered that it's a law to make us wear seatbelts. The bastards.

 

I expect to develop these strong views you have been on a fox hunt. Typical attitude of people who want to ban the burka becasue they do not understand somebodies culture.

[View From The Top]

I expect to develop these strong views you have been on a fox hunt. Typical attitude of people who want to ban the burka becasue they do not understand somebodies culture.

 

So fox hunting is cultural is it?

 

The bastards. How dare they stop you killing foxes. Oh, they haven't, you can still cull them. The bastards.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

So fox hunting is cultural is it?

 

The bastards. How dare they stop you killing foxes. Oh, they haven't, you can still cull them. The bastards.

 

So you have not been on a fox hunt. What then gives you the right to have such strong opinions or is it prejudice? It is about a respect for people and their culture. I highly reccomend you read Siegfried Sasson's diary of a fox hunter.

 

Anyway we are straying from the point of civil liberties and how Labour have no regard for our basic liberties.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I get the feeling we will have new thread started by Dune/Stanley every day until the end of this Parliament :mad:

 

I thought Stanley (A.K.A. Dune) had a life ban from this forum?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

As for specifics.....It's all around you. You just need to open your eyes....You've been the victim of so much "corrective training" in one form or another over the years, you're never going to accept anything from me, or anyone else...The fact you totally ignored my question about speed limits says volumes...........To see the big picture, you're going to have to brake down that 'Set wall' yourself.

 

Just sit down one day and count up all the ways the Government, both Central and Local has some input in controlling and/or restricting your life.....From Garbage bin laws.....To MOT certificates.....Then look around at the numerous ways your Government is 'telling' you what to do.....Look at the pollution of Government signs that are everywhere!....On the road, on the streets, in buildings, on TV, in the news papers. in the schools.

 

Hell, you can't even stand up at a football game anymore...Why not?....No other reason than the 'Government says you can't......how laughable is that?

 

............

[Fuengirola Saint]

So you have not been on a fox hunt. What then gives you the right to have such strong opinions or is it prejudice? It is about a respect for people and their culture. I highly reccomend you read Siegfried Sasson's diary of a fox hunter.

 

Anyway we are straying from the point of civil liberties and how Labour have no regard for our basic liberties.

 

People who kill animals for pleasure are *****

Edited 14 May, 2010 by St Landrew

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

People who kill animals for pleasure are *****

 

The tedious self righteousness of the left. Always preaching tolerance unless they do not agree. As I say freedom is a very precious thing.

[TopGun]

Maybe DC will offer a free vote on fox hunting as the Tories promised! I doubt it now unless he wants to lose his new LD friends

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

He would be very unwise too. Actually he would probably get it through as a lot of the liberals are against banning things that is why they are called liberals.

[Joensuu]

He would be very unwise too. Actually he would probably get it through as a lot of the liberals are against banning things that is why they are called liberals.

 

Liberals only support legislation, when it protects an entity (individual, animal, property etc) from the excesses of another. Fox hunting is a clear example of something most liberals would ban.

[Thedelldays]

so, I guess horse racing should be banned too

 

horses die at the expense of human entertainment..?

[TopGun]

so, I guess horse racing should be banned too

 

horses die at the expense of human entertainment..?

 

Run that by me again TDD... just so I understand the difference between well kept race horses and wild animals...

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Liberals only support legislation, when it protects an entity (individual, animal, property etc) from the excesses of another. Fox hunting is a clear example of something most liberals would ban.

 

Well they were split when they voted in 2005.

[Thedelldays]

Run that by me again TDD... just so I understand the difference between well kept race horses and wild animals...

but horses die (and they do) in the name of "fun" and "entertainment"...

[Joensuu]

Well they were split when they voted in 2005.

 

Hense my use of the word 'most'. It is a split issue, because some liberals value freedom of the human activity over an animal's right not to be tortured to death. Most liberals don't.

 

but horses die (and they do) in the name of "fun" and "entertainment"...

 

I didn't realise that the purpose of a horse race was to torture and kill horses. Or is the intention of fox hunting to have a race (and not to kill and torture)?

[teamsaint]

I am absolutely convinced that the tories had this scenario worked out ages ago, and are now implementing a well thought out and very clever plan.

 

For a long time now the lib dems have been polling heavily. On day it was inevitable that they would get the balance of power. Labour probably made a lazy assumption that when that day came, the LDs would jump in with them, in return for AV.

 

Cameron etc realised that this time round, if they failed to get a majority, and with AV very much on the labour agenda, that they could easily have faced the nightmare scenario of the "progressive majority" and another generation in opposition.

 

So Plan B for Cameron was to do the whole thing in one fell swoop. He grabbed power,(and gave the libs what they haven't had for 70 years) did voting reform the least bad way, (and to his own timetable and taste), and into the bargain neutralised th hard right.

 

You got to admit, its a beautiful plan from where they sit.

 

Admitedly they can't make jokes about the LD's in cabinet meetings now, but you can't have everything.