Brutally honest, forget its me posting this - who is disappointed in our transfers ?

[Northant Saint]

No I disagree with you here. When Waigo came on he totally changed the way we played, and defences struggled to cope against his unique and alternative style of play. I remember him coming on against Carlisle near the end of the season I think, and we immediately looked more potent as he created space and ran them ragged. For me, exclusively an impact player.

 

Anyway for me, a central midfielder is an absolute must. We looked clueless when Schneiderlin was replaced by Wotton for whatever reason, and we can't afford to let games disappointingly slip away from us this season in that fashion.

[saintwarwick]

No I disagree with you here. When Waigo came on he totally changed the way we played, and defences struggled to cope against his unique and alternative style of play. I remember him coming on against Carlisle near the end of the season I think, and we immediately looked more potent as he created space and ran them ragged. For me, exclusively an impact player.

 

Anyway for me, a central midfielder is an absolute must. We looked clueless when Schneiderlin was replaced by Wotton for whatever reason, and we can't afford to let games disappointingly slip away from us this season in that fashion.

 

Then if he was that good why didn't AP start him in more games? Yes sometimes he made an impact but most games he came on too late in the game to make an impact. As for Wotton, he played in the JPT final, seemed to of done a good job then but thats the same as Waigo, few games few judgments.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

If you compare the squad as it is today with the squad that finished last season then the only possible conclusion to draw is that we're significantly weaker now . For the time being one can only trust and believe that the club do plan to sign at least 2 or 3 quality players in the time available . If they don't then the chances of us actually being promoted this coming season may in reality not turn out to be quite the 'nailed on' certainty that many on here seem to presume .

 

Interesting few weeks ahead methinks .

[Turkish]

If you compare the squad as it is today with the squad that finished last season then the only possible conclusion to draw is that we're significantly weaker now . For the time being one can only trust and believe that the club do plan to sign at least 2 or 3 quality players in the time available . If they don't then the chances of us actually being promoted this coming season may in reality not turn out to be quite the 'nailed on' certainty that many on here seem to presume .

 

Interesting few weeks ahead methinks .

 

Why? We have not one but two decent right backs, we had none last season, we have the best left back in the divison last season. We have shed a lot of the dead wood and older players to free up space the squad for emerging youngesters like Martin,Oxlainde-Chamberlain and Mcneish, we have kept all our 'star' players. The only place we are lacking cover for RL, which we didn't have last season, an additional CM, which we didn't have last season and a replacement for Antonio & Waigo, defence is stronger, attack is as was, midfielder weaker by one player, by none if Holmes or Oxlainde Chamberlain are earmarked for have a bigger role this season, either way hardly significantly weaker,

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Why? We have not one but two decent right backs, we had none last season, we have the best left back in the divison last season. We have shed a lot of the dead wood and older players to free up space the squad for emerging youngesters like Martin,Oxlainde-Chamberlain and Mcneish, we have kept all our 'star' players. The only place we are lacking cover for RL, which we didn't have last season, an additional CM, which we didn't have last season and a replacement for Antonio & Waigo, defence is stronger, attack is as was, midfielder weaker by one player, by none if Holmes or Oxlainde Chamberlain are earmarked for have a bigger role this season, either way hardly significantly weaker,

 

In my view signing two replacement full backs hardly compensates for the loss of decent players such as Antonio, Papa Waigo , and Wayne Thomas ....etc and the fact that Paul Wotton is still here doesn't inspire much confidence in this fan either to be brutally frank . As for our youngsters only time can tell of course , although I do hope 'Fish' Mills gets a proper chance to show us what he can do this season .

 

I notice you too are calling for two more signings to reinforce the squad which is more or less what I said in the first place - so we're actually in agreement my friend .

[NickG]

If you compare the squad as it is today with the squad that finished last season then the only possible conclusion to draw is that we're significantly weaker now . For the time being one can only trust and believe that the club do plan to sign at least 2 or 3 quality players in the time available . If they don't then the chances of us actually being promoted this coming season may in reality not turn out to be quite the 'nailed on' certainty that many on here seem to presume .

 

Interesting few weeks ahead methinks .

 

would say we are stronger, attacking left back/midfielder added, Butterfield who is clearly better than any RB we had last year and can play CM/CB, Richardson.

 

We have lost two subs.

[(not THE) Kevin Moore]

You lost me at 'forget it's me posting this'

 

Biggest WUM/Lookatmedramaqueen EVER

 

F.A.C.T

 

"Apart from a very good left back, two solid right backs and resigning DC... what EXACTLY has Pardew been doing, harumph, harumph, harumph..."

[The Kraken]

would say we are stronger, attacking left back/midfielder added, Butterfield who is clearly better than any RB we had last year and can play CM/CB, Richardson.

 

We have lost two subs.

 

Agreed. We've lost Antonio and Waigo; while I would like to see Antonio return I won't miss Waigo. And compared to the squad that finished the season we are much stronger in defence with very good cover in each position. Midfield we've obviously lost the two mentioned but Oxlade-Chamberlayne looks like he'll feature more, maybe Holmes too, and Butterfield has very often filled in at RM in the past. Up front we also have a fully fit Connolly which we didn't have last year. That to me is a stronger squad to last year, however you look at it. Though again, I do agree with the fact we should sign a RM and CM, and I remain absolutely sure we will do this.

[alpine_saint]

You lost me at 'forget it's me posting this'

 

 

How sad that you lack any objectivity...

[NickG]

Papa started 11 games, Antonio 14.

 

They would only be looked at as subs, a loss but not huge one. Pardew has said he was in talks to keep Antonio so guess he will either see that through or have plan B. (Ox-C, or another player).

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

would say we are stronger, attacking left back/midfielder added, Butterfield who is clearly better than any RB we had last year and can play CM/CB, Richardson.

 

We have lost two subs.

 

Just a tad more than two subs I think - Lloyd James, Simon Gillett, Oliver Lancashire, Chris Perry, Wayne Thomas, Graeme Murty, Michael Poke, John Otsemobor, Jake Thomson, Kayne McLaggon, Tom Dunford, Jack Boyle, Lee Molyneux, Michael Antonio, and Papa Waigo N'Diaye have all left and been replaced by two full backs .

 

I invite all fair minded Saints fans to use the intelligence God gave them and evaluate whether the squad is really stronger today compared against the squad that finished last season .

[NickG]

how much were those used?

 

we have signed better players to replace most

[The Kraken]

Just a tad more than two subs I think - Lloyd James, Simon Gillett, Oliver Lancashire, Chris Perry, Wayne Thomas, Graeme Murty, Michael Poke, John Otsemobor, Jake Thomson, Kayne McLaggon, Tom Dunford, Jack Boyle, Lee Molyneux, Michael Antonio, and Papa Waigo N'Diaye have all left and been replaced by two full backs .

 

I invite all fair minded Saints fans to use the intelligence God gave them and evaluate whether the squad is really stronger today compared against the squad that finished last season .

 

It all depends how you equate squad strength though doesn't it? If you're looking at strength in numbers then, yes, last season we had more players so that argument would lead you to believe that last season was better.

 

However, if you go by the notion that the optimal squad is based around having 2 strong players per position, backed up by a few youngsters, then this season's one looks more streamlined and bereft of dead wood (which can be more of a hindrance sometimes), and I would argue is "stronger" (though not bigger, clearly).

 

IMO our squad was too bloated last season with those you mention who were never really going to be challenging for a starting poisition. The players we have already are direct competition or replacements for what we had, which should create a much more balanced and strong unit. Add in a RM and CM to challenge and its a very balanced squad indeed.

[alpine_saint]

how much were those used?

 

we have signed better players to replace most

 

Man you are so deluded.

 

There were a number of performances where we couldnt unlock opposing teams last season even with Antonio and Papa as impact subs.

 

Yet here you are trying to make out their loss makes no difference.

 

I really wonder about the objectivity of some of our fans.

[NickG]

Just a tad more than two subs I think - Lloyd James(, Simon Gillett, Oliver Lancashire, Chris Perry, Wayne Thomas, Graeme Murty, Michael Poke, John Otsemobor, Jake Thomson, Kayne McLaggon, Tom Dunford, Jack Boyle, Lee Molyneux, Michael Antonio, and Papa Waigo N'Diaye have all left and been replaced by two full backs .

 

I invite all fair minded Saints fans to use the intelligence God gave them and evaluate whether the squad is really stronger today compared against the squad that finished last season .

 

James replaced with much better.

Gillett not here half of season and started total - 0 games for us.

Lancashire/perry/thomas - replaced by Fonte/Seaborne/Martin last season - not needed.

Murty -replaced with better

 

Michael Poke, John Otsemobor, Jake Thomson, Kayne McLaggon, Tom Dunford, Jack Boyle, Lee Molyneux, - so what!!!!!

 

Michael Antonio, and Papa Waigo N'Diaye - yes will be missed and think likely to be replaced, never going to be first 11 players tho and think AP see Ox-C in their role.

 

Squad stronger - and I think will get stronger.

[NickG]

Man you are so deluded.

 

There were a number of performances where we couldnt unlock opposing teams last season even with Antonio and Papa as impact subs.

 

Yet here you are trying to make out their loss makes no difference.

 

I really wonder about the objectivity of some of our fans.

 

I have said number of times I think they need replacing. Still do. Rated both.

 

2 points per game we would have walked automatic promotion last, this sqaud before many of improvements got that for about 37 games but you still write us off - why?

[NickG]

It all depends how you equate squad strength though doesn't it? If you're looking at strength in numbers then, yes, last season we had more players so that argument would lead you to believe that last season was better.

 

However, if you go by the notion that the optimal squad is based around having 2 strong players per position, backed up by a few youngsters, then this season's one looks more streamlined and bereft of dead wood (which can be more of a hindrance sometimes), and I would argue is "stronger" (though not bigger, clearly).

 

IMO our squad was too bloated last season with those you mention who were never really going to be challenging for a starting poisition. The players we have already are direct competition or replacements for what we had, which should create a much more balanced and strong unit. Add in a RM and CM to challenge and its a very balanced squad indeed.

 

think thats what he has done - quantity rather than quality.

 

and we have signed 3 full backs not two so perhaps thats why he thinks we are weaker!

[eurosaint]

How sad that you lack any objectivity...

 

I guess that the fact you put ' forget it's me posting!' in the title is an admission that your realise how you are viewed on this website though, eh ??

[alpine_saint]

I guess that the fact you put ' forget it's me posting!' in the title is an admission that your realise how you are viewed on this website though, eh ??

 

Doesnt mean the points I make are automatically b*ll*cks though.

[Matthew Le God]

Maybe Alpine needs a Stu style "Dave Benson Phillips" makeover. A new profile as Pat Sharp might work?

[eurosaint]

Doesnt mean the points I make are automatically b*ll*cks though.

 

Not always I accept, but in this thread, yes, IMHO you are overly negative and impatient !

Ps. I don't get the significance of your avatar, is there a hidden meaning or am I just thick ??

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

James replaced with much better.

Gillett not here half of season and started total - 0 games for us.

Lancashire/perry/thomas - replaced by Fonte/Seaborne/Martin last season - not needed.

Murty -replaced with better

 

Michael Poke, John Otsemobor, Jake Thomson, Kayne McLaggon, Tom Dunford, Jack Boyle, Lee Molyneux, - so what!!!!!

 

Michael Antonio, and Papa Waigo N'Diaye - yes will be missed and think likely to be replaced, never going to be first 11 players tho and think AP see Ox-C in their role.

 

Squad stronger - and I think will get stronger.

 

 

You twisting what I said again - this is the most despicable form of lying .

 

As you very well know I was not at any time comparing today's squad with that which already existed of 6 or 12 months ago - I was specifically comparing it with the squad that finished last season . Please display the common courtesy to criticise me for what I have said - not on what I most certainly haven't .

 

I expect an immediate apology .

Edited 19 July, 2010 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[Matthew Le God]

I was specifically comparing it with the squad that finished last season

 

Lets look at the full back positions. Which is stronger...

 

1) 2009/10 Mills, Harding, Otsembor, James, Thomas

 

or

 

2) 2010/11 Mills, Harding, Dickson, Butterfield, Richardson

 

?

 

Yes, Papa Waigo and Antonio are no longer here and did have useful contributions last season. However Puncheon and Lallana were first choice last season and even if Antonio and Papa Waigo were still at Saints, Lallana and Puncheon would remain first choice. You also ignore that Dickson can play as a winger and Oxlade-Chamberlain will start to be used (albeit not much due to youg age).

[alpine_saint]

Not always I accept, but in this thread, yes, IMHO you are overly negative and impatient !

Ps. I don't get the significance of your avatar, is there a hidden meaning or am I just thick ??

 

My kids like playing with Lego Rock Monsters - not aware of any sinister subtexts, to be honest. Worried that you see something though...

[Turkish]

In my view signing two replacement full backs hardly compensates for the loss of decent players such as Antonio, Papa Waigo , and Wayne Thomas ....etc and the fact that Paul Wotton is still here doesn't inspire much confidence in this fan either to be brutally frank . As for our youngsters only time can tell of course , although I do hope 'Fish' Mills gets a proper chance to show us what he can do this season .

 

I notice you too are calling for two more signings to reinforce the squad which is more or less what I said in the first place - so we're actually in agreement my friend .

 

I agree we do need two more signings to complete what would be a very strong squad, but to say we are significantly weaker is nonsense. We have simply cleared out the dead wood. This will see other players playing more of a role, Holmes, if he can stay fit, Mills, Oxlainde-Chamberlain, Mcneish, Martin will all feature more often which can only be a good thing as although i've only seen them when they have played at SMS, Pardew clearly rates them and he has got very little wrong so far.

[alpine_saint]

think thats what he has done - quantity rather than quality.

 

and we have signed 3 full backs not two so perhaps thats why he thinks we are weaker!

 

Bored of repeating this.....

 

We have a better first XI, ergo more quality in the first XI.

 

Apart from that, we have sod.....all. Anyone denying it is a lunatic. Our back-up CM is Wotton, who I keep hearing on here is über-sh*te....

[Matthew Le God]

Bored of repeating this.....

 

We have a better first XI, ergo more quality in the first XI.

 

Apart from that, we have sod.....all. Anyone denying it is a lunatic. Our back-up CM is Wotton, who I keep hearing on here is über-sh*te....

 

Lets look at the full back positions. Which is stronger...

 

1) 2009/10 Mills, Harding, Otsembor, James, Thomas

 

or

 

2) 2010/11 Mills, Harding, Dickson, Butterfield, Richardson

 

?

 

Yes, Papa Waigo and Antonio are no longer here and did have useful contributions last season. However Puncheon and Lallana were first choice last season and even if Antonio and Papa Waigo were still at Saints, Lallana and Puncheon would remain first choice. You also ignore that Dickson can play as a winger and Oxlade-Chamberlain will start to be used (albeit not much due to youg age).

 

As for Wotton, yes he is crap but he was the backup last season for central midfield and is also this season. Saints do need another central midfielder I agree.

 

This is a good bench for a League One team...

 

Bialkowski

Dickson

Seaborne

Butterfield

Wotton

Oxlade-Chamberlain

Connolly

 

And have these still in reserve...

 

Mills

Martin

McNish

Gobern

Holmes

Edited 19 July, 2010 by Matthew Le God

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Lets look at the full back positions. Which is stronger...

 

1) 2009/10 Mills, Harding, Otsembor, James, Thomas

 

or

 

2) 2010/11 Mills, Harding, Dickson, Butterfield, Richardson

 

?

 

Yes, Papa Waigo and Antonio are no longer here and did have useful contributions last season. However Puncheon and Lallana were first choice last season and even if Antonio and Papa Waigo were still at Saints, Lallana and Puncheon would remain first choice. You also ignore that Dickson can play as a winger and Oxlade-Chamberlain will start to be used (albeit not much due to youg age).

 

1 - A team is comprised of more than its full backs .

2 - How do you know with such utter certainty that Butterfield & Richardson will prove to be an noticeable improvement on Thomas & Otsembor ? I hope they are , but this remains to be seen .

3 - I must repeat for the last time that any squad that losses 15 players and replaces them with only 2or 3 (so far) must be significantly weaker .

Edited 19 July, 2010 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[alpine_saint]

As for Wotton, yes he is crap but he was the backup last season for central midfield and is also this season.

 

Whats your point ?

 

And what gives you the right to state that the comparison of the starts of the season is the only valid comparison ? Personally, I reckon comparing the end of last season to the start of this one is more valid, and the first 16 is now WEAKER

[S-Clarke]

That's the thing Alps, no one is denying that we don't need backup players. What's irritating people is that you actually seem to think that Pardew is sat on his arse, at home, watching loose women on TV every day, letting the days pass him by and thinking ''we don't need to replace Antonio or papa''.

 

You have such a naive view on how football works at times.

[S-Clarke]

1 - A team is comprised of more than its full backs .

2 - How do you know with such utter certainty that Butterfield & Richardson will prove to be an noticeable improvement on Thomas & Otsembor ? I hope they are , but this remains to be seen .

3 - I must repeat for the last time that any squad that losses 15 players and replaces them with only 2 (so far) must be significantly weaker .

 

it's.the.middle.of.flaming.july and we're already talking as if the transfer window is shut and our business is over.

 

one good thing though, when we usually get these kind of discussions a signing is announced the following day.

[alpine_saint]

That's the thing Alps, no one is denying that we don't need backup players. What's irritating people is that you actually seem to think that Pardew is sat on his arse, at home, watching loose women on TV every day, letting the days pass him by and thinking ''we don't need to replace Antonio or papa''.

 

You have such a naive view on how football works at times.

 

Mental.....I dont think that at all....

 

I think he's watching Desperate Houswives.

[Matthew Le God]

3 - I must repeat for the last time that any squad that losses 15 players and replaces them with only 2 (so far) must be significantly weaker .

 

None of those that left were going to be 1st XI regulars. The squad last season had 40 players over the age of 19. The squad was too large and need to be reduced. Those that left were the deadwood, even still some remain e.g. Pulis, Forecast and possibly Holmes, Wotton. A smaller squad with quality additions is much better than a bloated squad.

[NickG]

squad is stronger than the start of last season - by a mile, and the end of the season as well.

[Weston Saint]

Bored of repeating this.....

 

We have a better first XI, ergo more quality in the first XI.

 

Apart from that, we have sod.....all. Anyone denying it is a lunatic. Our back-up CM is Wotton, who I keep hearing on here is über-sh*te....

Butterfield can play a support role as CM when Richardson is fit. Harding can switch to the right back if necessary. He will likely also only have a support role this season. Oxlade-Chamberlain is being groomed as support to wide midfield.

 

I think we are stronger going into this season.

[NickG]

agree. We are lucky to have skilled players who could play in a number of areas.

[alpine_saint]

squad is stronger than the start of last season - by a mile, and the end of the season as well.

 

I agree with the start of last season. I think its nonsense about the end of last season.

[S-Clarke]

Butterfield can play a support role as CM when Richardson is fit. Harding can switch to the right back if necessary. He will likely also only have a support role this season. Oxlade-Chamberlain is being groomed as support to wide midfield.

 

I think we are stronger going into this season.

 

Good shout on young Chamberlain, i think he may be the attacking wide-player we all think we need to buy....he may be staring at us already.

[brmbrm]

Whats your point ?

 

And what gives you the right to state that the comparison of the starts of the season is the only valid comparison ? Personally, I reckon comparing the end of last season to the start of this one is more valid, and the first 16 is now WEAKER

 

That about sums it up. Pardew does what he does, he has the manager's job, Alpine doesn't seem to have a managerial pedigree, or maybe I am missing something and am missing the fact that the moaning WUM is actually Brian Clough reincarnated instead of a whingher.

 

Sure, we have fewer players, but we have lost players who were not really 1st team regulars anyway, to be honest, and we have gained a few who will be.

 

Oh well, you see what you want to see i suppose....................

[alpine_saint]

Butterfield can play a support role as CM when Richardson is fit. Harding can switch to the right back if necessary. He will likely also only have a support role this season. Oxlade-Chamberlain is being groomed as support to wide midfield.

 

I think we are stronger going into this season.

 

R, we havent a clue about Butterfield, Richardson (in 3 months time) and O-C in the heat of battle for us yet.

 

How can an old lag like you really claim we are stronger than the end of last season ???

[Weston Saint]

I agree with the start of last season. I think its nonsense about the end of last season.

I don't although I would like to see a box to box midfielder by early start of season if not before.

[alpine_saint]

Good shout on young Chamberlain, i think he may be the attacking wide-player we all think we need to buy....he may be staring at us already.

 

Great, lets place all our hopes and all the pressure for a HUGE season on the shoulders of a kid still learning his trade..

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

None of those that left were going to be 1st XI regulars. The squad last season had 40 players over the age of 19. The squad was too large and need to be reduced. Those that left were the deadwood, even still some remain e.g. Pulis, Forecast and possibly Holmes, Wotton. A smaller squad with quality additions is much better than a bloated squad.

 

If you are really saying the likes of Antonio , Thomas , Papa Waigo and even Simon Gillett were mere 'deadwood' then all I can say is that we must agree to disagree . I've seen this club simultaneously have no less than 3 goalkeepers out injured - sometimes its good to have strength in depth .

[S-Clarke]

Great, lets place all our hopes and all the pressure for a HUGE season on the shoulders of a kid still learning his trade..

 

we're not, but he's another player to add to the squad that wasn't really around last season.

 

FWIW i think Punch will fill the right sided role, with Lallana on the left. Chamberlain as backup to Punch and Dickson/Mills as backup to Lallana.

 

Our best results last season came with those 2 playing and swapping around.

[Matthew Le God]

If you are really saying the likes of Antonio , Thomas , Papa Waigo and even Simon Gillett were mere 'deadwood' then all I can say is that we must agree to disagree . I've seen this club simultaneously have no less than 3 goalkeepers out injured - sometimes its good to have strength in depth .

 

Antonio and Papa Waigo weren't released. They were loans.

 

How many games did Pardew give Gillett? He was deadwood in a Pardew squad.

 

The club has 4 senior centre backs. Fonte, Jaidi, Seaborne and Martin. No need for Thomas to remain on large wages to be 5th choice.

[Weston Saint]

R, we havent a clue about Butterfield, Richardson (in 3 months time) and O-C in the heat of battle for us yet.

 

How can an old lag like you really claim we are stronger than the end of last season ???

Because those released were weak and dragged us backwards when they came into the team. OK we have lost Waigo and Antonio but they were loan players. I liked Waigo, think he added pace but Antonio made a lot of poor football decisions. Pardew has already said he is looking to bring in a Lambert style support player. They take time

[Matthew Le God]

Great, lets place all our hopes and all the pressure for a HUGE season on the shoulders of a kid still learning his trade..

 

Who is saying put all the pressure on Oxlade-Chamberlain? He is 16 so of course he won't play often. He is still useful to have and use occasionally.

 

Lallana and Puncheon will be first choice wide players. Then you have Dickson, Richardson, Butterfield, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Mills that can all cover the wide midfield role. Plus 6 week of transfer window and even longer of the loan window.

Edited 19 July, 2010 by Matthew Le God

[Weston Saint]

Great, lets place all our hopes and all the pressure for a HUGE season on the shoulders of a kid still learning his trade..

No he will be a support player just as Waigo and Antonio were.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Antonio and Papa Waigo weren't released. They were loans.

 

How many games did Pardew give Gillett? He was deadwood in a Pardew squad.

 

The club has 4 senior centre backs. Fonte, Jaidi, Seaborne and Martin. No need for Thomas to remain on large wages to be 5th choice.

 

Loans or full signings makes little practical difference - they have still left the squad and will need replacing . Wayne Thomas frequently played (quite effectively) as a full back and I would remind you that the record shows Simon Gillett has moved up to the CCC from L1 - so at least one manager doesn't consider him as a piece of deadwood won't you agree ?

 

Trying to argue against the fact that we're weaker today than we were on the last day of the season is just plain daft .

[Turkish]

Loans or full signings makes little practical difference - they have still left the squad and will need replacing . Wayne Thomas frequently played (quite effectively) as a full back and I would remind you that the record shows Simon Gillett has moved up to the CCC from L1 - so at least one manager doesn't consider him as a piece of deadwood won't you agree ?

 

Trying to argue against the fact that we're weaker today than we were on the last day of the season is just plain daft .

 

And has been replaced by two players who are better in that position.