Wes Tender Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 Yesterday i emailed David Luker to see if the club had any ticket promotions lined up ala Sheff Utd & this was his response: Hi Lee We are looking at ways of boosting the crowd numbers, although winning games is the sure-fire way of doing this! Discounting tickets is a dangerous game as you start to erode the main benefit of a season ticket, and whilst you may not mind this, many would. This would eventually lead to poor renewals next year meaning we are robbing peter to pay paul. Remember, this happened a lot in the year after we were relegated and supporters were very unhappy and we lost many, many season ticket holders because of such schemes. We will continue to see what we can feasibly do without risking upsetting our core market Best wishes David It obviously doesn't occur to David Luker that the loss of many ST tickets sales the year after relegation might have had more to do with the fact that we were playing in a division lower, that there would be easy availability of tickets on the day, that some couldn't get that excited at the prospect of paying the same money to see Grimsby, etc. If Luker's opinion is along these lines and presumably Lowe and Wilde share that opinion, we really cannot hold out much hope that anything realistic will be done to increase numbers attending. All very well saying that wins will increase attendance, but does he not acknowledge that more fans = better atmosphere = 12th man and increased chance of winning. Conversely, I'm sure that he must realise that less bums on seat = less revenue = mounting losses = administration. Dave, have a read of some of the posts on here suggesting ways that the ST holders can be mollified and yet produce practical methods of increasing attendances and then have the balls to come up with a strategy to implement it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 Dave, have a read of some of the posts on here suggesting ways that the ST holders can be mollified and yet produce practical methods of increasing attendances and then have the balls to come up with a strategy to implement it. Agree....although I'd repeat that it's a shame that people need to "mollified" in the first place...as I say...the intrinsic value of people's "shares" in an organisation can go up and down depending on fortunes and circumstances. It's a risk concept that season ticket holders could take on board. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 Agree....although I'd repeat that it's a shame that people need to "mollified" in the first place...as I say...the intrinsic value of people's "shares" in an organisation can go up and down depending on fortunes and circumstances. It's a risk concept that season ticket holders could take on board. IMO. Yes, but it's one of the major selling points of a ST that it works out at "x" number of games free (especially the early bird renewal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 Hampshire County Cricket Club have been running a scheme for 2 years now whereby all members (season ticket holders in football terms) are given a book of vouchers which include free full member complimentary tickets to a couple of 1st class games and 1 day games. All the member has to do is to get his guest to complete the back of the ticket with information like name and address. The member then takes it to the ticket office in exchange for a complimentary ticket on the day. I am not sure if there is any financial benefit to the club but I am assuming many will come again and pay or themselves become a member. It also gives a marketing base although there is the regulatory get out box. It is a simplistic scheme because members are not allocated specific seats for those games, only reserved areas. Would it work in football? I doubt it would because of the allocated seating policy in football. David Lucker is correct, if you give benefits to non season ticket holders you risk alienating a “captured” audience. It is a difficult business marketing a football club and as David rightly says, the quality of the product is what sells. There may be budding marketing directors out there. One way might be for the club to set up a competition of ideas on marketing Saints with a decent prize for any suggestion used linked to the additional revenue it brings in. The club and supporters could set up an independent tribunal to oversee to make sure of fair play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pongo Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 David Lucker is correct, if you give benefits to non season ticket holders you risk alienating a “captured” audience. Luker should know all about that. It was his airbrained pre-registration for away games idea that lost us many ST holders in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 Just do kids for a quid at every game, higher attendance, a couple of grand more, and fans for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wopper Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 Getting Rupert to sling his hook might help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 Getting Rupert to sling his hook might help. Have you ever made a post that did not refer to Lowe in some way shape or form ? your obsession is not healthy imnmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpb Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 Getting Rupert to sling his hook might help. Seem to remember lots of people saying that they wouldn't watch games whilst Lowe was there last time - when he did go they still stayed away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 (edited) Yes, but it's one of the major selling points of a ST that it works out at "x" number of games free (especially the early bird renewal). When I was a member (season ticket holder) of Essex County Cricket Club for 5 years in the 90s (don't ask....) I didn't sign up and handover my money because of any lure of getting "free" matches. I saw it more holistically than that. I bought it because I wanted to feel a part of the set up and the feeling of prestige and belonging that went with it. I still think that in the football world 'members' (season ticket holders) look at it too narrowly as simply a financial saving. If more people saw it as investing emotionally as well as financially into an organisation that they feel a sense of belonging to - a badge of pride as it were - then why "worry" about the price that other more casual visitors pay to come to see 'your' club play? Edited 3 October, 2008 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 I think most ST holders do buy because they see it a discounted way of going to see their team. Of course there are other benefits and it also means they don't have to go through the hassle of buying individual tickets. There are some, who see it as a prestige badge that says "I'm a better fan than you!", fortunately I think they're in the minority. Being a ST holder for 30 years (up until this season), although a little miffed about the discounts, I was all for trying to get the stadium full and if it meant discounts, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundance Beast Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 It obviously doesn't occur to David Luker that the loss of many ST tickets sales the year after relegation might have had more to do with the fact that we were playing in a division lower, that there would be easy availability of tickets on the day, that some couldn't get that excited at the prospect of paying the same money to see Grimsby, etc. If Luker's opinion is along these lines and presumably Lowe and Wilde share that opinion, we really cannot hold out much hope that anything realistic will be done to increase numbers attending. All very well saying that wins will increase attendance, but does he not acknowledge that more fans = better atmosphere = 12th man and increased chance of winning. Conversely, I'm sure that he must realise that less bums on seat = less revenue = mounting losses = administration. Dave, have a read of some of the posts on here suggesting ways that the ST holders can be mollified and yet produce practical methods of increasing attendances and then have the balls to come up with a strategy to implement it. Wes your habitual moaning about price of tickets is becoming tedious. You gave up the chance to renew as part of the March Madness offer and pay about £17 a game and not to mention that fact you could spread the cost of the ST over 6 months at 0%. Saints really is operating no different than any other business where long term commitment is rewarded with better deals. Weston Saint puts it all more eloquently than I do. I don't know much about other club's pricing but I guess our prices stand close scrutiny with those clubs we would or would like to consider our peers. Wes you are getting very, very tedious and this obssessio with price is just an opportunity for you to have a dig at the club you are supposed to support and yet, rarely do I read anything positive from your posts. Do you ever stop moaning? I'm guessing that the money worries run a little deeper for you as perhaps your wife is due to get her passport soon and you need to finance another trip to the far east? Apologies if my guess is wide of the mark but its only recently you have got on your high horse about the price of a ticket and perhaps the 3 years is up for being chaperoned by a 'young and beautiful' wife. BTW our 6 month interest free loan has now finished so we can enjoy the next 18 games without having to dip into our pockets again until next March. You're not as smart as you think you are Wes, enjoy your next trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hacienda Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 The issue is, surely, how to entice back the casual fan or those who cannot commit to season tickets due to work/other? Winning helps but our malaise appears to run much deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 Wes your habitual moaning about price of tickets is becoming tedious. You gave up the chance to renew as part of the March Madness offer and pay about £17 a game and not to mention that fact you could spread the cost of the ST over 6 months at 0%. Saints really is operating no different than any other business where long term commitment is rewarded with better deals. Weston Saint puts it all more eloquently than I do. I don't know much about other club's pricing but I guess our prices stand close scrutiny with those clubs we would or would like to consider our peers. Wes you are getting very, very tedious and this obssessio with price is just an opportunity for you to have a dig at the club you are supposed to support and yet, rarely do I read anything positive from your posts. Do you ever stop moaning? I'm guessing that the money worries run a little deeper for you as perhaps your wife is due to get her passport soon and you need to finance another trip to the far east? Apologies if my guess is wide of the mark but its only recently you have got on your high horse about the price of a ticket and perhaps the 3 years is up for being chaperoned by a 'young and beautiful' wife. BTW our 6 month interest free loan has now finished so we can enjoy the next 18 games without having to dip into our pockets again until next March. You're not as smart as you think you are Wes, enjoy your next trip. Although you come across as a regular ****ing Einstein!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 Wes your habitual moaning about price of tickets is becoming tedious. You gave up the chance to renew as part of the March Madness offer and pay about £17 a game and not to mention that fact you could spread the cost of the ST over 6 months at 0%. Saints really is operating no different than any other business where long term commitment is rewarded with better deals. Weston Saint puts it all more eloquently than I do. I don't know much about other club's pricing but I guess our prices stand close scrutiny with those clubs we would or would like to consider our peers. Wes you are getting very, very tedious and this obssessio with price is just an opportunity for you to have a dig at the club you are supposed to support and yet, rarely do I read anything positive from your posts. Do you ever stop moaning? I'm guessing that the money worries run a little deeper for you as perhaps your wife is due to get her passport soon and you need to finance another trip to the far east? Apologies if my guess is wide of the mark but its only recently you have got on your high horse about the price of a ticket and perhaps the 3 years is up for being chaperoned by a 'young and beautiful' wife. BTW our 6 month interest free loan has now finished so we can enjoy the next 18 games without having to dip into our pockets again until next March. You're not as smart as you think you are Wes, enjoy your next trip. As usual, Somedunce is way wide of the mark in what he says about pretty well everything in his petty vindictive little diatribe. He obviously doesn't see any irony at all between him and Scabby and a handful of others moaning their heads off about the lack of attendances forcing the club towards bankruptcy and posters trying to get those numbers increased by making helpful suggestions as to how this might be achieved. In his small brain, anybody making these suggestions is having a dig at the club and as the variation of the prices would require the intervention of his beloved board, any suggestions are deemed to be critical of them, rather than helpful. Tell me, Somedunce; should a business invite constructive criticism as a way of improving themselves and making their product more attractive, or should they dismiss any criticism from their customers as being tedious moaning? Regarding other assumptions made by Somedunce on the flimsiest of evidence, my personal life is no business of his and certainly of no relevance at all. The very fact that he can even attempt to introduce this into a debate on the Saints just goes to prove what a sad, sad individual he is; truly a screw loose in there somewhere. It did fleetingly cross my mind to respond with similar guesses about your own family, but then I realised that by doing so, I'd only be as bad as you. And I then realised that I am definitely a better person than you, but as that is not a difficult thing, it gives me scant satisfaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 Just do kids for a quid at every game, higher attendance, a couple of grand more, and fans for the future. AGREED and dad would come as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsaint Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 Why would a teenager pay £20 (or almost £20) to watch CCC footy unless they were a die hard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voteforpedro Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 Just do kids for a quid at every game, higher attendance, a couple of grand more, and fans for the future. Would be a good idea if started at the beginning of the season, so that U16 ST prices could be set. If they start doing that now, they will have to refund every U16 ST holder as they have paid at least £140 whereas non ST holders could see the same amount of games for £23. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amesbury Saint Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 The club should give ST holders a very cheap option to buy a second ST for a family member for XMAS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 They should erect some stocks in the centre circle and let everyone throw rotten fruit, eggs, bricks etc at Rupert Lowe at half time. That'd get the crowds in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totton Red Posted 3 October, 2008 Share Posted 3 October, 2008 This is every clubs nightmare....how to become flexible on ticket prices when many have invested in advance at full price? Cannot see an immediate solution and perhaps the model will be broken in the coming years for those who have spare seats at every game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 4 October, 2008 Share Posted 4 October, 2008 Hampshire County Cricket Club have been running a scheme for 2 years now whereby all members (season ticket holders in football terms) are given a book of vouchers which include free full member complimentary tickets to a couple of 1st class games and 1 day games. All the member has to do is to get his guest to complete the back of the ticket with information like name and address. The member then takes it to the ticket office in exchange for a complimentary ticket on the day. I am not sure if there is any financial benefit to the club but I am assuming many will come again and pay or themselves become a member. It also gives a marketing base although there is the regulatory get out box. It is a simplistic scheme because members are not allocated specific seats for those games, only reserved areas. Would it work in football? I doubt it would because of the allocated seating policy in football. David Lucker is correct, if you give benefits to non season ticket holders you risk alienating a “captured” audience. It is a difficult business marketing a football club and as David rightly says, the quality of the product is what sells. There may be budding marketing directors out there. One way might be for the club to set up a competition of ideas on marketing Saints with a decent prize for any suggestion used linked to the additional revenue it brings in. The club and supporters could set up an independent tribunal to oversee to make sure of fair play. I've just reread this and formed some conclusions from it. HCC do have a very good policy to encourage extra attendances, realising from a couple of perspectives that extra numbers in the ground are good for the club. Even if those extra people get in for free, there is the possibility that they will become hooked to pay themselves at a later date and additional revenue might be generated anyway from refreshments and other revenue streams associated with the game like merchandising. You doubt that such a scheme might work in football because of the compulsory seating allocation. But airlines have to have an allocated seat and hotels allocate specific rooms when they have a policy of lowering prices to fill their hotels or aircraft. Other businesses are intelligent enough to realise that they can maximise their profits by accepting that above a certain level of pricing, it is better to sell some places at reduced prices rather than not to sell them at all. The problem of allocated seats is not insurmountable. A seat could be allocated by the ticket ofice at a set period before the match to allow the administration to be completed. A little increased bureaucracy to a computer based ticket office is surely a price worth paying for the increased revenue it would bring and I'm sure that it is not beyond the wit of Dave Luker to arrange. So the sticking point remains the risk of upsetting the ST holders. As Weston says, HCC seem to have a decent solution for overcoming the problem and that is to award them the ability to purchase extra tickets for their friends and family at concessionary prices. Beyond the price of the STs which already grants a lower price for paying up front, there are additional benefits that ST holders enjoy, such as the same seat guaranteed every home match chosen by them where they want to sit, priority when buying cup tickets and away tickets and vouchers for all sorts of other products and services as well as the avoidance of the inconvenience of buying each ticket every match. Whereas I can understand the ST holders being miffed if it were possible for somebody else to attend all matches at a total price commensurate with what they have to pay up front, there could surely be no real complaint if concessions were given to lowering prices for children, teenagers or pensioners and having price incentives teaming up games or giving discounts for families, or kids for a quid etc. Would STs holders object for example to the occasional lower prices for midweek matches or televised games played at a different time? Would they object at the ability to get a home match at a reduced price if it were married to a specific away match? There are half season tickets, so why not quarter season tickets, or indeed a monthly ticket that gives a slight reduction over paying for each ticket separately? At first, when I read about the idea of having a competition amongst fans to come up with suggestions as to how the marketing of extra seat sales could be improved, incentivised with a % reward of the additional revenue generated, I thought it was a good idea. Thinking about it further, I wonder why the board of directors who are all supposed to be successful businessmen in their own right, don't have the imagination to come up with any viable strategies themselves. Of course, things like this at most clubs are the domain of dedicated Marketing Managers, but we have dismissed ours as it was deemed an economic necessity. This is the situation you get in any business where the control rests mainly with the financial directors; they lack imagination and can't see beyond the bottom line of a balance sheet. They are capable of making cuts to reduce overheads, but have scant understanding that more revenue can sometimes be generated with lower prices or that money spent on effective marketing ought to generate income beyond its cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 I struggle to understand how you are unable to see that some of the football we have played, and continue to try and play, this season, does not compare favourbaly with the disappointing dross served up much of last year under both Burley & Pearson. May be its my time of life, but I am walking away proud of and encouraged by the team's efforts and displays this season. I don't recall doing that much at all last year (possibly with the exception of Bristol City at home) After yesterday I have now seen 5 matches, and in those games only one has rated above average which was the very good performance against Norwich. The other four have ranged from poor to dire. I'm not overly enamoured with a 20% strike rate, nor are the missing thousands of others!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollman no2 Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 To be honest i know the team seem to be playing pretty football and are trying their best,but i still feel the same this season as i did last season. I go to most of the games expecting the teams we play to beat us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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