Potential vs Proven?

[dubai_phil]

OK don't want this to be about names but about specifications of our new manager.

 

I have read many eloquent posts about the many names, BUT in years gone by we have appointed mangers with POTENTIAL.

 

Sturrock was "The Best Manager outside the Premier League" Wigley "The best young coach of his generation" Stuart Grey "Respected by all the players". All had one thing - Potential.

 

So we are now in L1 but want to get out of it. Do we go for Potential?

 

What are the real merits of this?

 

Or should we go the "AP path" with a Proven track record?

[Thedelldays]

Sturrock was "The Best Manager outside the Premier League" Wigley "The best young coach of his generation" Stuart Grey "Respected by all the players". All had one thing - Potential

 

 

 

highly doubt all of that

[itchen_dan]

IMO, proven track record. The quicker we get out of this league and the Championship, the quicker we can rebuild and hopefully become a top 8 premier league team.

 

Potential is good but what happens if it doesn't work out? We'll end up sacking him in 6/8months time and starting all over again.

 

Get someone in who can get the job done quickly and efficiently.

[dubai_phil]

Sturrock was "The Best Manager outside the Premier League" Wigley "The best young coach of his generation" Stuart Grey "Respected by all the players". All had one thing - Potential

 

 

 

highly doubt all of that

 

Hindsight TDD is a wonderful thing. I was recalling the media before anyone was appointed not the Lowe spin

 

Sturrock had won

 

 

 

Wiki Individual Awards

• Football League Third Division Manager of the Year: 2001–02[10]
  
• Football League Second Division Manager of the Year: 2003–04[11]
  
• Football League Third Division Manager of the Month: September 2001, October 2001, February 2002
  
• Football League Second Division Manager of the Month: October 2003, December 2003
  
• LMA Managers Performance League: January 2004[12]
  
• Football League One Manager of the Month: November 2004
  
• Football League Two Manager of the Month: January 2007
  

[EBS1980]

Potential would appear to be the cheaper option as the proven manager would demand a higher wage. Potential is more of a game but when money is tight that is why clubs go for potential over proven.

 

My fear over Adkins is that he has done well with no pressure, no transfer budget and no expections. I worry how he would cope with pressure, some money to spend and massive expections....

[Thedelldays]

Potential would appear to be the cheaper option as the proven manager would demand a higher wage. Potential is more of a game but when money is tight that is why clubs go for potential over proven.

 

My fear over Adkins is that he has done well with no pressure, no transfer budget and no expections. I worry how he would cope with pressure, some money to spend and massive expections....

 

how do you know adkins has no pressure..working wonder with no money is its own pressure...delivering time and time again means fans get used to it which will mean more pressure

[SnailOB]

Is Adkins proven or potential ? for our current circumstances i'd say he is proven (i know you didn't want names but just wanted to ensure who you would class in either camp) So I would say proven. Proven to be able to achieve promotion, and to provide teams that can compete at at least this and the next level and to have done so for more than a one off season.

[sadoldgit]

I was delighted when I heard we had Pardew and we need someone else with a decent pedigree. I can't see Brown getting the job as there would be another clash of egos. Proven for me but it looks like we are going for potential, which is fine if that potential is realised.

[revolution saint]

how do you know adkins has no pressure..working wonder with no money is its own pressure...delivering time and time again means fans get used to it which will mean more pressure

 

Except of course they don't expect it yet. They got promoted and then relegated and stuck with him. They got promoted again and just about stayed up and now their hope not expectation is to stay up again. hardly the same as getting to the premier league with a set of demanding fans and a demanding chairman is it?

[Thedelldays]

Except of course they don't expect it yet. They got promoted and then relegated and stuck with him. They got promoted again and just about stayed up and now their hope not expectation is to stay up again. hardly the same as getting to the premier league with a set of demanding fans and a demanding chairman is it?

 

how do you know they dont expect it....did they get relegated with a smile on their face and thought "jolly good show" and walk around in wonderment when he immediately got them up again after losing their best players....????

 

are you really suggesting some of their fans did not expect to bounce straight back up..whilst working with a nothing budget and losing players..?

 

bit disrespectful I think....

[revolution saint]

how do you know they dont expect it....did they get relegated with a smile on their face and thought "jolly good show" and walk around in wonderment when he immediately got them up again after losing their best players....????

 

are you really suggesting some of their fans did not expect to bounce straight back up..whilst working with a nothing budget and losing players..?

 

bit disrespectful I think....

 

As much supposition on your part as mine I think. How do you know they do expect success? Show me one Scunny fan who demands anything other than staying up?

[Thedelldays]

As much supposition on your part as mine I think. How do you know they do expect success? Show me one Scunny fan who demands anything other than staying up?

 

you told ME they dont expect anything...show ME football fans that done expect anything..?

[revolution saint]

you told ME they dont expect anything...show ME football fans that done expect anything..?

 

And you replied by saying "How do I know that?" I know that by reading their forums. I know that because they DON'T expect success and they HOPE to stay up. You on the the other hand merely suppose that by now Scunny would have fan expectation to move on - they don't. They want Adkins to stay because they don't have any further aspirations and know they are lucky to be where they are - they appreciate the job he's done and it is a good one. It's a totally different proposition to the Saints job though.

[sadoldgit]

With all due respect to Adkins, the Wow factor is not something you associate with him.

[Thedelldays]

And you replied by saying "How do I know that?" I know that by reading their forums. I know that because they DON'T expect success and they HOPE to stay up. You on the the other hand merely suppose that by now Scunny would have fan expectation to move on - they don't. They want Adkins to stay because they don't have any further aspirations and know they are lucky to be where they are - they appreciate the job he's done and it is a good one. It's a totally different proposition to the Saints job though.

 

just been reading their forums now...for example..they expected to beat palace recently...why though, they should just be happy to have a club..

 

I grant you it is a different position...who do you suggest whilst in division 3...?

[shurlock]

Its a false distinction - most managers who are deemed to have potential also have proven success, just that it has beeen accumulated at a lower level. The question is whether success translates from the lower leagues to the higher leagues.

 

Wigley and Gray were never managers, so its difficult to talk about potential in the managerial sense; who knows with Sturrock - wasn't ultimately given the time, though he did have the vision of signing Crouch. Fact is that most successful managers have progressed from the lower leagues upwards -Ferguson, MON, Redknapp, Hodgson, Moyes - you name it. At some point, a club had to take a gamble with them. Its only in recent years that there has been an assumption that that you need a big name- and that has proved harmful for the managerial gene pool.

Edited 8 September, 2010 by shurlock

[revolution saint]

just been reading their forums now...for example..they expected to beat palace recently...why though, they should just be happy to have a club..

 

I grant you it is a different position...who do you suggest whilst in division 3...?

 

Bloody quick reader aren't you? I suggest, to get this back on topic, that we get someone with experience of handling big expectation - what else did you think I would say?

[Foxstone]

I was delighted when I heard we had Pardew and we need someone else with a decent pedigree. I can't see Brown getting the job as there would be another clash of egos. Proven for me but it looks like we are going for potential, which is fine if that potential is realised.

 

Adkins is proven

 

He got Scunny out of this division and kept them up last term.

[Thedelldays]

Bloody quick reader aren't you? I suggest, to get this back on topic, that we get someone with experience of handling big expectation - what else did you think I would say?

 

who do you suggest...easier to throw these lines out..

 

Keegan and more so O'neill are pure fantasy

[NickG]

With all due respect to Adkins, the Wow factor is not something you associate with him.

 

would rather promotioned than to be "wow"ed

[revolution saint]

who do you suggest...easier to throw these lines out..

 

Keegan and more so O'neill are pure fantasy

 

Well I think my argument is more about why Adkins wouldn't be my choice but since you ask then I would view any appointment that isn't at least as good as Pardew's standing is now as disappointing. Personally I think we need someone who demands respect from both the fans and players - I don't think Adkins does either. I'd go for Keegan if he wanted it, Shearer, Mowbray, Brown or even Megson - they've all handled the expectation that comes with this job and delivered a certain amount of success. Who would you go for though?

[NickG]

how well did Shearer handle it?

[revolution saint]

how well did Shearer handle it?

 

Yeah to be fair that was a mistake including him in that list.......

[Dig Dig]

It seems a lot of our fans are only interested in the "name". Like a bunch of 13 year old's who cry when their mummy and daddy didn't give them Nike or Adidas. And along with this mentality, the debate about potential/experience doesn't come into it. You only have to look at the warmer response on this site towards the mentions of Shearer and Leonardo than NA to prove the point.

[doddisalegend]

Does it matter? managers can be brillant at one club and complete rubbish at the, next hell they can go from hero to zero in one season. Just becuase a manager has done well else were doesn't mean he will at saints (given our track record Fergunson could probably come to saints and be ****) or the other way around. Probably the two best managers in English football are Wenger and Fergunson the one thing they have in common (other than not being English) is they both been at one club for a long time. I hope that one day saints might be like that again.

[shurlock]

Does it matter? managers can be brillant at one club and complete rubbish at the, next hell they can go from hero to zero in one season. Just becuase a manager has done well else were doesn't mean he will at saints (given our track record Fergunson could probably come to saints and be ****) or the other way around. Probably the two best managers in English football are Wenger and Fergunson the one thing they have in common (other than not being English) is they both been at one club for a long time. I hope that one day saints might be like that again.

 

And both had to fight off the lack of brand value when they first arrived. Recall the Evening Standard's infamous headline "Arsene Who?".

[CB Fry]

OK don't want this to be about names but about specifications of our new manager.

 

I have read many eloquent posts about the many names, BUT in years gone by we have appointed mangers with POTENTIAL.

 

Sturrock was "The Best Manager outside the Premier League" Wigley "The best young coach of his generation" Stuart Grey "Respected by all the players". All had one thing - Potential.

 

So we are now in L1 but want to get out of it. Do we go for Potential?

 

What are the real merits of this?

 

Or should we go the "AP path" with a Proven track record?

 

 

I can almost hear your premise creaking under the weight of those assumptions.

 

Sturrock was highly regarded, but was never described as above.

 

Steve Wigley's mum wouldn't have described him as you have, and no one except the occasional Lowe-luvvie windup merchant decribed him as such.

 

Stuart Gray, at the time, was a reasonable punt, but the appointment was regarded as such by all concerned at the time.

 

L1 is lower risk in terms of "potential" as the stakes are lower, but the job we need doing - promotion this season without fail - is not best suited as a "breeding ground".

 

The debate is whether we think someone like Adkins is "potential" or "proven". He's delivered promotions, but he's been at the same club for 14 years. He's never had to walk into a new club, take it over, shake it up and deliver results. Whereas, for his faults, Phil Brown has.

 

Any manager is going to be a risk because the demands here, this season, are immense. It's not about potential, it's about bottle!

Edited 8 September, 2010 by CB Fry

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

I think it's just about identifying the right man, for the right job, at the right time, at the right team. Simple as. Think Allardyce at Bolton & Newcastle. Think Hoddle at Saints & Spurs. Think Hodgson at Fulham & Blackburn. All examples where decent managers have had comparative success at one club where they spectacularly failed at another. I think the key thing is that those who are doing the hiring bring in the right manager for our situation. If, following the interviews, they feel an up and coming manager, who's done well at his current club and is right for us then they need to bring him in. If we need a big name to come in, have the players in awe of him and shake the club up that way, then so be it. Getting the right man should totally depend on how Cortese, Reed, whoever perceives our current situation. If it is to be Adkins, then once the appointment is made, we should dismiss those it could've been and give the new fella our 100% backing.

[sadoldgit]

would rather promotioned than to be "wow"ed

 

That comes at the end of the season and if he takes us up fair play to the bloke and he will get a wow from me. I am talking about the initial reaction and it is a hmmmmm rather than wow. When told to expect a wow I wasn't thinking hmmmmm I was expecting a wow (and no, not MoN). I am sure you get my drift Nick.

[revolution saint]

It seems a lot of our fans are only interested in the "name". Like a bunch of 13 year old's who cry when their mummy and daddy didn't give them Nike or Adidas. And along with this mentality, the debate about potential/experience doesn't come into it. You only have to look at the warmer response on this site towards the mentions of Shearer and Leonardo than NA to prove the point.

 

But of course a "name" brings advantages that a non-name (for want of a better word) doesn't. It galvanises the fans behind them, gives a feel good factor and an environment more conducive to winning. Like it or not a "name" would buy more time to get it right. Oh and if the debate between potential and experience doesn't interest you then what are you doing on this thread?

 

I'd say you haven't really read the reponses of people who have put together a largely reasoned argument as to why they wouldn't want someone who only has "potential". Instead you come up with a stupid analogy about 13 year old kids.

[revolution saint]

I think it's just about identifying the right man' date=' for the right job, at the right time, at the right team. Simple as. Think Allardyce at Bolton & Newcastle. Think Hoddle at Saints & Spurs. Think Hodgson at Fulham & Blackburn. All examples where decent managers have had comparative success at one club where they spectacularly failed at another. I think the key thing is that those who are doing the hiring bring in the right manager for our situation. If, following the interviews, they feel an up and coming manager, who's done well at his current club and is right for us then they need to bring him in. If we need a big name to come in, have the players in awe of him and shake the club up that way, then so be it. Getting the right man should totally depend on how Cortese, Reed, whoever perceives our current situation. If it is to be Adkins, then once the appointment is made, we should dismiss those it could've been and give the new fella our 100% backing.[/quote']

 

To be fair I think most people will do this. I certainly will - I'll support the team and whoever manages them but human nature being what it is some people will get longer to prove themselves than others.

[sadoldgit]

Wigley and Gray were obviously both highly thought of within the club and good at the job they did. I don't think there is anything wrong with promoting from within if you think you have the right person. As it turns out neither of them were really good enough for the step up but that only became apparent after the event. There was a round of applause from the 1st team sqaud when Gray was announced as manager. Wigley was unfortunate in that he lost a number of his better players to injury and didn't have the chance to bring his own in. However as neither of them have gone on to stake a claim as a decent no 1 then you must assume that they were better where they were (and there is nothing wrong with being a decent no 2 or coach).

Even the great Clough failed at Leeds though so perhaps it is just often timing and circumstances.

As we know the first thing the great Lawrie Mac did was to take us down!

[shurlock]

But of course a "name" brings advantages that a non-name (for want of a better word) doesn't. It galvanises the fans behind them, gives a feel good factor and an environment more conducive to winning. Like it or not a "name" would buy more time to get it right. Oh and if the debate between potential and experience doesn't interest you then what are you doing on this thread?

 

I'd say you haven't really read the reponses of people who have put together a largely reasoned argument as to why they wouldn't want someone who only has "potential". Instead you come up with a stupid analogy about 13 year old kids.

 

Not necessarily - it also brings massive pressure and an expectation that the 'name' will automatically guarantee success - something that can be hard to manage; 'names' often believe their own hype -

some might think its a good thing that they don't pander to chairmen, especially given developments at Saints; but it can create massive friction and undermine cooperation. The only reason Clough was successful is that he manged smaller teams - as soon as he tried to impose his ego on a larger, more powerful structure, it kicked back. Its one reason why i don't think Clough would have made a good England manager.

[charliemiller]

Replace the word Potential with cheap, low wage and subserviant.

 

Replace Proven with expensive, high wage earner who wants control and wont be meddled with.

 

The manager is a more important recruitment than any player but if you flip it to player consider this...

 

Money is no object and we need a attacking midfield general.

 

Do you buy Jack Wilshire or Steven Gerrard ?

 

Point made maybe ? IMHO

[sadoldgit]

To be fair I think most people will do this. I certainly will - I'll support the team and whoever manages them but human nature being what it is some people will get longer to prove themselves than others.

 

This is the problem though. Pardew wanted to be judged after 18 months yet some had him down as a failure after 18 matches. He never did make it to 18 months and despite winning something and doing ok is seen as a failure. We are expecting to go up THIS season. Nothing less was expected of Pardew. Will Adkins (if it is him) be allowed time to do his job or branded as a failure if he doesn't make at least the play offs?

[Thedelldays]

This is the problem though. Pardew wanted to be judged after 18 months yet some had him down as a failure after 18 matches. He never did make it to 18 months and despite winning something and doing ok is seen as a failure. We are expecting to go up THIS season. Nothing less was expected of Pardew. Will Adkins (if it is him) be allowed time to do his job or branded as a failure if he doesn't make at least the play offs?

 

you say pardew was branded a failure as if he was boo'd and hounded at SMS...there was only really a handful of internet types that really disliked pardew...and that would be the case no matter who is in charge..even wenger gets the "its time for him to go" comments on radio phone ins..and he is clearly one of the worlds great coaches

[shurlock]

you say pardew was branded a failure as if he was boo'd and hounded at SMS...there was only really a handful of internet types that really disliked pardew...and that would be the case no matter who is in charge..even wenger gets the "its time for him to go" comments on radio phone ins..and he is clearly one of the worlds great coaches

 

I couldn't see where we were going with Pardew - and while I didn't boo or hound him, I'm not shedding any tears now he's gone. No contradiction in that - and im sure that's true of quite a few supporters.

[doddisalegend]

you say pardew was branded a failure as if he was boo'd and hounded at SMS...there was only really a handful of internet types that really disliked pardew...and that would be the case no matter who is in charge..even wenger gets the "its time for him to go" comments on radio phone ins..and he is clearly one of the worlds great coaches

 

this ^^^

 

It's often intresting to take a look at other clubs Forums and they're all like this one. Some fans will defend the manager to the death even after a 15 game losing streak others decide they don't like the manager 15mins in to the first match and will never change their mind no matter how well he does. I doubt there has ever been a manager appointed that pleased an entire fanbase.

[doddisalegend]

I couldn't see where we were going with Pardew - and while I didn't boo or hound him, I'm not shedding any tears now he's gone. No contradiction in that - and im sure that's true of quite a few supporters.

 

Funny it was the exact opposite for me last season was the first one since WGS was in charge were I went to games expecting us to win games rather than hoping but expecting the worse, I could see us only going one way with Pardew and that was up.

[Dig Dig]

But of course a "name" brings advantages that a non-name (for want of a better word) doesn't. It galvanises the fans behind them, gives a feel good factor and an environment more conducive to winning. Like it or not a "name" would buy more time to get it right. Oh and if the debate between potential and experience doesn't interest you then what are you doing on this thread?

 

I'd say you haven't really read the reponses of people who have put together a largely reasoned argument as to why they wouldn't want someone who only has "potential". Instead you come up with a stupid analogy about 13 year old kids.

 

No I think it is worth debating but until a new manager is appointed the debate will boil down to who do you want and who do I want. Look closely, the thread is continuation of topics being discussed on about 4 threads presently. Oh and by the way, your list of "names" in your earlier post as to who you believe would be a good manager is embarrassing

[eurosaint]

this ^^^

 

It's often intresting to take a look at other clubs Forums and they're all like this one. Some fans will defend the manager to the death even after a 15 game losing streak others decide they don't like the manager 15mins in to the first match and will never change their mind no matter how well he does. I doubt there has ever been a manager appointed that pleased an entire fanbase.

 

I just checked and you are right :

Alpine_Skate

Alpine_Scouse

Alpine_Manc

Alpine_Blade

Alpine_Canary

Alpine_Freshener

They are bl**dy everywhere !!!

[S-Clarke]

It's an interesting argument Dubai_phil, i think you can make a case for either type of manager.

 

but i personally felt that Cortese would play it safe and go for an experienced name who has also managed at the top level. But it looks like he is having a look at the up-and-coming options more closely, and they all need a shot at it don't they? - for all we know there could be a future top flight manager out there, they need their crack at the big time somewhere and a club like this could be great for them.

[dubai_phil]

I just checked and you are right :

Alpine_Skate

Alpine_Scouse

Alpine_Manc

Alpine_Blade

Alpine_Canary

Alpine_Freshener

They are bl**dy everywhere !!!

 

Lol

 

Like I said at the start - I was trying to keep this away from defending or protesting about specifically Adkins. IMHO the more I have learnt about him, the more I can see why he could be a good choice. No, he wouldn't be MY choice, that is Mourinho BUT he fits Proven at this level but not Proven with where we need to go.

 

Alex Oxy-Chamberlain has potential. He could go a long way, BUT he isn't going to be ready to start EVERY game YET. We sent Lallana on loan, he was still inconsistent until last season. Potential takes TIME. Mistakes have to be made and lessons have to be learnt.

 

IMHO right now, as things stand, I honestly do not think we can AFFORD to gamble on Potential. I think we could have done LAST season, but not now.

 

Somebody who has Proven their ability to come to a new club and turn things around, work with new people outside of their comfort zone. That is NOT Adkins, not because he isn't any good, simply because he has been at Scunny for 14 years and has not walked into a New Job and said - ah no, sorry that is cr@p it now needs to be done this way and then show or tell everyone HOW he did that change elsewhere and what the effects were.

 

Right now we need nothing more than to get out of this League. using Charlie's analogy would I buy Gerrard or Wilshire to do that?

 

Come on down Stevie G

[NickG]

That comes at the end of the season and if he takes us up fair play to the bloke and he will get a wow from me. I am talking about the initial reaction and it is a hmmmmm rather than wow. When told to expect a wow I wasn't thinking hmmmmm I was expecting a wow (and no, not MoN). I am sure you get my drift Nick.

 

who actually said expect a wow?

[dubai_phil]

It's an interesting argument Dubai_phil, i think you can make a case for either type of manager.

 

but i personally felt that Cortese would play it safe and go for an experienced name who has also managed at the top level. But it looks like he is having a look at the up-and-coming options more closely, and they all need a shot at it don't they? - for all we know there could be a future top flight manager out there, they need their crack at the big time somewhere and a club like this could be great for them.

 

You know what? I think what NC has done is actually really impressive.

 

He is no expert, so he has taken his time, done it carefully (and probably lol'd at us & the Press). I am a heck of a lot happier to think he has actually done it this way. OK you can argue he needs to find a stooge BUT at least if that is the case he won't go getting into any "Political" rows too quickly.

 

Professional and Businesslike Approach. Knowing it hasn't been a knee jerk appointment will just help me get even more behind Nick Holmes when he gets the job tomorrow

[revolution saint]

you say pardew was branded a failure as if he was boo'd and hounded at SMS...there was only really a handful of internet types that really disliked pardew...and that would be the case no matter who is in charge..even wenger gets the "its time for him to go" comments on radio phone ins..and he is clearly one of the worlds great coaches

 

Says the man who consistently sounded out the siren call, "No More Excuses FFS" last season. Sorry mate but you're exactly the reason why I don't think Adkins would get enough time. Me, I'd probably be defending him against you. Hypocrite.

[doddisalegend]

Says the man who consistently sounded out the siren call, "No More Excuses FFS" last season. Sorry mate but you're exactly the reason why I don't think Adkins would get enough time. Me, I'd probably be defending him against you. Hypocrite.

 

I think he prefers the term devils advocate...................

[revolution saint]

No I think it is worth debating but until a new manager is appointed the debate will boil down to who do you want and who do I want. Look closely, the thread is continuation of topics being discussed on about 4 threads presently. Oh and by the way, your list of "names" in your earlier post as to who you believe would be a good manager is embarrassing

 

Oh why not state the bleeding obvious? Of course it's about who I think would be better against who you think would be. None of us know. The difference is that I don't call people who disagree with me crying 13 year olds. try some reasoned debate and tell me why my picks are so bad? Or is that too adult for you?

[Dig Dig]

Oh why not state the bleeding obvious? Of course it's about who I think would be better against who you think would be. None of us know. The difference is that I don't call people who disagree with me crying 13 year olds. try some reasoned debate and tell me why my picks are so bad? Or is that too adult for you?

 

Shearer, Mowbray, Brown or even Megson

 

Mowbray- got WBA promoted with a very strong squad. Would have been a failure if he hadn't. In the prem however, he had no clue as to how to keep them up, insisting on playing like Arsenal when they should have got stuck in. In the end they went with a whimper. And Celtic, well I'm sure he'd rather no one mention that. Very strange looking man to boot

 

Brown- completely lost the changing room, players at Hull largely disliked him and his general demeanor is that of a buffoon.

 

Shearer- I won't bother

 

Megson- another "name" living off his past success. Has done nothing of any note for years and there is nothing inspiring about him.

[revolution saint]

Shearer, Mowbray, Brown or even Megson

 

Mowbray- got WBA promoted with a very strong squad. Would have been a failure if he hadn't. In the prem however, he had no clue as to how to keep them up, insisting on playing like Arsenal when they should have got stuck in. In the end they went with a whimper. And Celtic, well I'm sure he'd rather no one mention that. Very strange looking man to boot

 

Brown- completely lost the changing room, players at Hull largely disliked him and his general demeanor is that of a buffoon.

 

Shearer- I won't bother

 

Megson- another "name" living off his past success. Has done nothing of any note for years and there is nothing inspiring about him.

 

Yet all with the exception of Shearer had got promotion at a big club so just as much crediblity as Adkins. Hardly embarassing is it? So it comes back down to potential vs experience and I'd go for experience. Of course you think that's irrelevant argument.