shurlock Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 Went to the match on Tues, and thought that Rudi had a decent first half - (a great couple of crosses), though he tired significantly in the 2nd. Still its hard to dispute the effect he had on the fans and the atmosphere. The place felt genuinely lifted. That said, I am puzzled with the idea -entertained by fans and GB/JP alike- that he's a left-back. Since Holmes got injured, his position has been crying out for somebody like Rudi (who, after all, has averaged a goal every four games over his carrer). Its hard to say how much the decision to play him out of position has contributed to problems at the club. But it surprises me how many saints fans argue for him to play but dont go and on and argue for him to play in his most effective position. What is the reasoning for having Mills play the more further foward of the two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 Rudi Skacel started out as a left back I think, probably in some sort of total football system. Last season when he was a Hertha he started out in midfield, but I think he played left back again for the last 3 or 4 games. Could be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 Window is right -Skacel was a LB until GB moved him into midfield at hearts -strange he gets slagged off for using him as LB but it was him who moved him forward. I think he would be good in a more forward role -but he is the best LB we have so it makes sense to use him there when we have likes of Holmes, Surman and Mills who can do well infornt of him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 Went to the match on Tues, and thought that Rudi had a decent first half - (a great couple of crosses), though he tired significantly in the 2nd. Still its hard to dispute the effect he had on the fans and the atmosphere. The place felt genuinely lifted. That said, I am puzzled with the idea -entertained by fans and GB/JP alike- that he's a left-back. Since Holmes got injured, his position has been crying out for somebody like Rudi (who, after all, has averaged a goal every four games over his carrer). Its hard to say how much the decision to play him out of position has contributed to problems at the club. But it surprises me how many saints fans argue for him to play but dont go and on and argue for him to play in his most effective position. What is the reasoning for having Mills play the more further foward of the two? agree, he should play in the holmes position. He played there for hearts and was awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mewsta Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 Went to the match on Tues, and thought that Rudi had a decent first half - (a great couple of crosses), though he tired significantly in the 2nd. Still its hard to dispute the effect he had on the fans and the atmosphere. The place felt genuinely lifted. That said, I am puzzled with the idea -entertained by fans and GB/JP alike- that he's a left-back. Since Holmes got injured, his position has been crying out for somebody like Rudi (who, after all, has averaged a goal every four games over his carrer). Its hard to say how much the decision to play him out of position has contributed to problems at the club. But it surprises me how many saints fans argue for him to play but dont go and on and argue for him to play in his most effective position. What is the reasoning for having Mills play the more further foward of the two? I might be wrong here, but I think Rudi's natural position is left back. Put this together with his experience, I think it's safe to say that he has more chance of being effective for us at left back than Mills would be at the moment. I think it's JP's way of trying to sure up the back line and stem the flow of goals..... I mean I could be talking complete crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintDonkey Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 Skacel is probably the best option at left back - but he should be played in an overlapping role with the player in front of him prepared to track back. Astoundingly that's exactly how he was used on Tuesday! Also I think the fact that he tired significantly in the second half might just support the theory that he returned from the close season with an appalling level of fitness. Just maybe he hasn't been playing not because of any influence from on high but because he hasn't been fit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopGun Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 agree, he should play in the holmes position. He played there for hearts and was awesome. Right. Most of the time the opposition was the likes of St Johnstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 Skacel is probably the best option at left back - but he should be played in an overlapping role with the player in front of him prepared to track back. Astoundingly that's exactly how he was used on Tuesday! I think that that is one of the Total Football methodologies, muddy the line between defenders and midfielders. Get one covering for the other when one is on a forward surge. Always seemed to work well with Bridge and CMFG!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 Right. Most of the time the opposition was the likes of St Johnstone. Barnsley, Doncaster and Norwich are hardly world class. I know we could have a 10 page thread on the quality of the CCC compared to the SPL, but I think if HCDAJFHOMFC, HCDAJFU. Besides, he only played regularly in midfield in the first half of the playoff season and managed 4 goals by Christmas. That is as many as any other midfielder has got in a season since MLT retired. Two of those goals came against Brum and away to Burnley, which are hardly easy fixtures. Scored against Celtic and Hibs a few times too IIRC. Hardly Sunday League teams. Anyway, however low anyone's oppinion on Skacel, you have to agree he is better than David McGoalkick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 I think that that is one of the Total Football methodologies, muddy the line between defenders and midfielders. Get one covering for the other when one is on a forward surge. Always seemed to work well with Bridge and CMFG!! and Surman / Skacel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 and Surman / Skacel Not quite so effective though as Surman, IMO, has a habit to go wandering when in midfield hence not providing the requisite cover for a mobile LB!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Stimp Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 Barnsley, Doncaster and Norwich are hardly world class. I know we could have a 10 page thread on the quality of the CCC compared to the SPL, but I think if HCDAJFHOMFC, HCDAJFU. Besides, he only played regularly in midfield in the first half of the playoff season and managed 4 goals by Christmas. That is as many as any other midfielder has got in a season since MLT retired. Two of those goals came against Brum and away to Burnley, which are hardly easy fixtures. Scored against Celtic and Hibs a few times too IIRC. Hardly Sunday League teams. Anyway, however low anyone's oppinion on Skacel, you have to agree he is better than David McGoalkick. That made me chuckle.. wonder how many will get it. Remember we need to accommodate Surman as well, who I think it's pretty poor as a left back tbh, he's much more at home in midfield. As someone mentioned the CMFG/Bridge combo did pretty well interchanging between the two positions, would be interesting to see if that could work here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 How to get the best out of Skacel? This is a difficult one and I am not sure there is an answer we can find. It is obvious Saints want him off the books and he well knows that, equally he has done himself no favours because of his dislike of training. When he came to us he was unfit and more than happy to live the good life, such is the nature of the man. I am not sure we can replicate his terrific form with Hearts, where he was virtually given a free role some where on the left. He does not have the pace to hurt defenders and relies at arriving at the right place and right time. He can do it as all Hearts supporters know, but not with us or Hertha. If Burley could not repeat the feat, I really doubt others will have much success and we will just have to make the best we can from the situation, what ever that is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 That made me chuckle.. wonder how many will get it. Remember we need to accommodate Surman as well, who I think it's pretty poor as a left back tbh, he's much more at home in midfield. As someone mentioned the CMFG/Bridge combo did pretty well interchanging between the two positions, would be interesting to see if that could work here. I think I read (although I may have dreamt it) that JP was looking at Skacel, Surman and Mills as an interchangeable triangle. One goes left, one tucks in and the other drops back, depending on whether we are attacking or defending or where each of the players are positioned at the breakdown (whether we win the ball or lose it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 with someone like MLT you have to say as Alan Ball did -he is your best player and you want to get the best out of him, then build your team around him. With the rest, of course you want to get the best out of them but it a balancing act as to what other players you have and your team needs. With the attacking players such as Holmes, Mills, Lallana and Surman (possibly Smith and Gasmi) I think -at the moment Skacel is more useful as LB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 Rudi is one of those lucky bustards who looks like a footballer the second he waddles onto the field. End of story! From then on it's always downhill all the way. That is why nobody wants to buy him and he doesn't figure in his national team. It is a desperate measure indeed when even our erstwhile coveted TFM (total football man) falls back on the likes of Rudi to save the ship from going down. It suggests to me that the hole below the water line is far more serious than we think. TFM has lost it and running about the decks like a headless chicken when he is supposed to be up on the bridge steering us into tropical calms and misty eyed sunsets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 I might be wrong here, but I think Rudi's natural position is left back. Put this together with his experience, I think it's safe to say that he has more chance of being effective for us at left back than Mills would be at the moment. I think it's JP's way of trying to sure up the back line and stem the flow of goals..... I mean I could be talking complete crap Needed experience in the back four. Three left sided players helped our overall balance. It will give Mills experience without exposing him, and allow Surman to play in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints67 Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 Looked more composed on the ball at LB than either Drew or Mills have done. With match fitness he'll be able to get up and back quicker. IMHO he is the right man for the role of LB than anyone we have at the club. Long may we continue to use him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Saint Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 Went to the match on Tues, and thought that Rudi had a decent first half - (a great couple of crosses), though he tired significantly in the 2nd. Still its hard to dispute the effect he had on the fans and the atmosphere. The place felt genuinely lifted. That said, I am puzzled with the idea -entertained by fans and GB/JP alike- that he's a left-back. Since Holmes got injured, his position has been crying out for somebody like Rudi (who, after all, has averaged a goal every four games over his carrer). Its hard to say how much the decision to play him out of position has contributed to problems at the club. But it surprises me how many saints fans argue for him to play but dont go and on and argue for him to play in his most effective position. What is the reasoning for having Mills play the more further foward of the two? Rudi has always been a left-back and it doesn't take a genius to see it is easily his best position. The ill-fated experiment of playing him in midfield came about because of his relative success in midfield in the League One/Two (depending on the opposition) standard Scottish League. Restored to his proper position he will almost certainly prosper. He was excellent on Tuesday- although tired badly towards the end. It also had a very postive impact on Mills who had been put under pressure by a few of our less intelligent fans and yet had a fine game in midfield. It was like gaining two new players! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 rudi has not been a left back..he even stated on the OS some time ago that he played there once or twice for marseille... he has played LM/LW most of his career.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 DDs - thought differently after some googling when this came up before -think he played international as LB as well, maybe wrong and can't be bothered to do it all again -links were on old forum. Think he was LB until Hearts. Happy to be shown otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 I don't care where he started out, he's an ok left back and a very good left winger in this league. I don't understand the decision, other than to increase the age and experience at the back I guess. Still, I'd like to see him play further forward. Mills needs to learn the position and he won't do that playing left wing. Absolutely. Mills has done pretty well IMO and will only imrpove with games. he lacks a little place and height but he gets stuck in and I haven't noticed him being murdered by wingers. The only time he looks exposed is he faces 2 on 1. Skacel thrived in a forward role at Hearts and with Holmes out I'd of thought he would have walked straight into that position. At left wing he wouldn't need to chase back all day as well so his suspect fitness would not be exposed. JP is worse than Burley at playing people out of position. James at right back, Surman at left back, McGoldrick at right wing and CM, BWP at right or left wing, Dyer at left wing, Mills at left wing he even had Thomson at right back on Saturday. You can add Wotton to that list as his position should clearly be somewhere in league 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/?page_id=9020 look at this article.. hopefully it will dispell this myth that rudi was a LB for years etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 seems quite clear -thought read differently elsewhere -but OS is accuarate! even so, stand by my comments above that he should be played as LB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Mockles Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 Rudi has one of his best games in the Derby play off as left back. Looked good and got forward and delivered some penetrating balls. Seeing as we have a total lack of full backs, an experienced player like Rudi, who can fit into the Total football system (if there was any truth in that pre-season hype) would be a necessity. He can overlap and send players forward to attack and play the forward (should be forwards!!) through and into the game (well, send some forward - not sure about Mc Goldrick!) Pleased to see him back and hoping the axis have discovered their lack of foresight (in leaving out pretty much all the experienced players and selling the better players) was about as short-sighted and misguided as a Sundance monolgue!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 Absolutely. Mills has done pretty well IMO and will only imrpove with games. he lacks a little place and height but he gets stuck in and I haven't noticed him being murdered by wingers. The only time he looks exposed is he faces 2 on 1. Skacel thrived in a forward role at Hearts and with Holmes out I'd of thought he would have walked straight into that position. At left wing he wouldn't need to chase back all day as well so his suspect fitness would not be exposed. JP is worse than Burley at playing people out of position. James at right back, Surman at left back, McGoldrick at right wing and CM, BWP at right or left wing, Dyer at left wing, Mills at left wing he even had Thomson at right back on Saturday. You can add Wotton to that list as his position should clearly be somewhere in league 1. Thomson came on into midfield with Cork moving to RB I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever a red and white Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 rudi should be a winger, he should also be in the team becasue he gives a good optinos for a left footer at set pieces. however we may need him at LB atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintstr1 Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 Right. Most of the time the opposition was the likes of St Johnstone. Total Crap............... He played some great games against the likes of Celtic & Rangers plus in europe for Hearts. Rudi's Best position is attacking left midfield , Not wide left and certainly not at Fullback............ Yes he can play at Fullback or on the wide left position because he is a very experienced International player. It is about time somebody at St Mary's realized what they have in Rudi, And he should be one of the first names on the team sheet every game. IMO he should get the Skippers armband as well.I am sure it would galvanize him and he would encourage the younger element at the Club. Whatever the problem has been with him and Lowe or whatever it is time to rise above it , Saints need Rudi bigtime , utilize his Skill & Experience. When asked at Hearts a couple of years ago about his form Rudi said "He was Enjoying his football and felt Wanted, Thats all I think he needs now to feel wanted at SFC, not treated like a lepper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 Total Crap............... He played some great games against the likes of Celtic & Rangers plus in europe for Hearts. Rudi's Best position is attacking left midfield , Not wide left and certainly not at Fullback............ Yes he can play at Fullback or on the wide left position because he is a very experienced International player. It is about time somebody at St Mary's realized what they have in Rudi, And he should be one of the first names on the team sheet every game. IMO he should get the Skippers armband as well.I am sure it would galvanize him and he would encourage the younger element at the Club. Whatever the problem has been with him and Lowe or whatever it is time to rise above it , Saints need Rudi bigtime , utilize his Skill & Experience. When asked at Hearts a couple of years ago about his form Rudi said "He was Enjoying his football and felt Wanted, Thats all I think he needs now to feel wanted at SFC, not treated like a lepper. It would be interesting not that I expect it to happen, Surman, Mills wide and Skacel CLM that could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 Think Skacel in front of Mills could work. When playing in front of Bale in the playoff season, he was always pretty good at covering when Bale went forward on the overlap. I can't remember us conceding any goals from down the left when those two played together (I am sure there are a couple, but I can't recall any shockers). Having an experienced and generally reliable midfielder covering might give Mills a bit more confidence than say DMG, sulking around on the halfway line when the opposition attack. Oh to have Skacel in front of Vignal on the left. I would pay the entrance fee for that alone. They have both provided great entertainment at times in recent years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 we could do with Vignal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musesaint Posted 23 October, 2008 Share Posted 23 October, 2008 we could do with Vignal Yes indeed But in the meantime I think Rudi CDAJFU at LB I remember his fantastic performance in the away leg of the Derby playoff final Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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