Loads of new cuts

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

You mean teachers in private schools don't get 6 weeks' summer holiday? I thought private school holidays were more generous than state ones.

 

They are more generous, at least 2 or 3 more weeks a year. Additionally you can't get away with lesser qualifications, the testing/inspection standards are less rigourous and they inform the school well in advance.

[Tokyo-Saint]

lol - perfect timing. My cousin (teacher) just updated her facebook account to say "4 weeks in France don't mind if I do ". She also tagged in her partner who will be going as well and is also a teacher.

 

They must be taking their marking and lesson prep with them. 10 hours days...

[Viking Warrior]

For information the local governmentpension scheme is not self funded , The employer pays in approximately 18.5%

per employee

while in the case of teachers the employer will pay 14.1% per year and in terms of money this is £2961 as a new teacher and above £14100 for a head teacher per year

 

So it is definately not self funded

[badgerx16]

For information the local governmentpension scheme is not self funded , The employer pays in approximately 18.5%

per employee

while in the case of teachers the employer will pay 14.1% per year and in terms of money this is £2961 as a new teacher and above £14100 for a head teacher per year

 

So it is definately not self funded

 

The definition of self-funding means that there is no additional burden on the state to make a contribution to keep the funds operative, which there isn't with the LGPS. Yes there is an employers contribution whilst somebody is in employment, but there is no 'black hole' gap between the funds in the scheme and the demands placed upon it, which would otherwise require the Treasury to make budgetary commitments - which other public sector schemes do need.

 

Question - do private sector pensions not have employer contributions ?

[Barry Sanchez]

My wife is expecting our first in September so schooling will be an issue for us in a few years, primary state schooling no problem but I will do everything I can to make sure I put them into the best school possible, exactly how many days are children in school?

What are the hours?

How many hours do teachers actually do?

 

 

Rhetorical question, they blag loads of "marking days" and "training days" and the 6 weeks holiday? You truly really are having a laugh if much work is done then for the coming term, I dont begrudge them that or anything, I do get ****ed off though when I am told how hard they have it, teachers have it very good, very good indeed.

 

They also have overtime of marking exam papers for a tiday sum of £2000-£2500 this time of year, they dont tell you that though do they?

[Barry Sanchez]

The definition of self-funding means that there is no additional burden on the state to make a contribution to keep the funds operative, which there isn't with the LGPS. Yes there is an employers contribution whilst somebody is in employment, but there is no 'black hole' gap between the funds in the scheme and the demands placed upon it, which would otherwise require the Treasury to make budgetary commitments - which other public sector schemes do need.

 

Question - do private sector pensions not have employer contributions ?

 

I hate the tories but I have to agree is it fair that others pay for others pensions? Is that fair?

[badgerx16]

My wife is expecting our first in September so schooling will be an issue for us in a few years, primary state schooling no problem but I will do everything I can to make sure I put them into the best school possible, exactly how many days are children in school?

What are the hours?

How many hours do teachers actually do?

 

 

Rhetorical question, they blag loads of "marking days" and "training days" and the 6 weeks holiday? You truly really are having a laugh if much work is done then for the coming term, I dont begrudge them that or anything, I do get ****ed off though when I am told how hard they have it, teachers have it very good, very good indeed.

 

They also have overtime of marking exam papers for a tiday sum of £2000-£2500 this time of year, they dont tell you that though do they?

 

How many days are children in school - depends on the parents ;-)

 

How many hours do teachers do ? - My wife start at 8 and finishes at 5, then does about 2 hours at home. She also does about 3 hours at home on each term time weekend, plus some days during the hols. As for the 'overtime', not likely if they're Primary teachers.

[Barry Sanchez]

How many days are children in school - depends on the parents ;-)

 

How many hours do teachers do ? - My wife start at 8 and finishes at 5, then does about 2 hours at home. She also does about 3 hours at home on each term time weekend, plus some days during the hols. As for the 'overtime', not likely if they're Primary teachers.

 

If your wife is doing on average 13 hours a week unpaid work, why have the Unions not pursued those hours incorporated into the teachers working week and a higher salary?

My mum teaches and I have to say your wife works far harder than my mum.

[badgerx16]

If your wife is doing on average 13 hours a week unpaid work, why have the Unions not pursued those hours incorporated into the teachers working week and a higher salary?

My mum teaches and I have to say your wife works far harder than my mum.

 

Why do you think she's on strike today ?

 

Edit : take a look at Gove's proposed reforms, including extending class hours - in theory if you add up all the statutory subject teaching hours for a primary class, there aren't enough hours in the school day to accommodate them.

Edited 27 June, 2013 by badgerx16

[Batman]

I thought about becoming a teacher. in the Troops for Teachers scheme.

dont think I will

I still get most of the old HM Forces pension, so do not want to throw that away.

 

as said before. that is all changing from 2015 and it will be no way as good as it was for the newer service personnel

[Barry Sanchez]

Why do you think she's on strike today ?

 

Thats nothing to do with the practice of 13 hours unpaid work is it? This strike is about pensions, higher working age (we all have to) and Gove's unwillingness to change track on it, fair play to the strike and the workers right to forfeit their labour but they will lose on this.

[Tokyo-Saint]

How many days are children in school - depends on the parents ;-)

 

How many hours do teachers do ? - My wife start at 8 and finishes at 5, then does about 2 hours at home. She also does about 3 hours at home on each term time weekend, plus some days during the hols. As for the 'overtime', not likely if they're Primary teachers.

 

Don't take this the wrong way but is she new to the job? I know the paperwork/lesson prep is much harder in the first couple of years and those hours seem to be much more than any of the teachers in my family. Also, does she leave the house at 8 or actually start at 8? If she starts at 8, that is great,shows she is preparing well, I wouldn't say it is anywhere near usual though.

 

It is tougher for teachers with younger students though as I know a lot of secondary teachers do marking/paperwork etc in class - "everyone open the textbook and work through pages 77-79 answering the questions at the end".

[badgerx16]

Don't take this the wrong way but is she new to the job? I know the paperwork/lesson prep is much harder in the first couple of years and those hours seem to be much more than any of the teachers in my family. Also, does she leave the house at 8 or actually start at 8? If she starts at 8, that is great,shows she is preparing well, I wouldn't say it is anywhere near usual though.

 

It is tougher for teachers with younger students though as I know a lot of secondary teachers do marking/paperwork etc in class - "everyone open the textbook and work through pages 77-79 answering the questions at the end".

 

She entered the profession as one of the job converts about 10 years ago, and yes, she starts at 8, she complains if I'm 5 minutes late dropping her off as she'll be the last one in.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

IMO it's pretty stupid to moan about individual aspects of a public sector workers package. When you apply for a job you look at the whole package. Good holidays and pensions are/were a feature of the package presented to graduates to entice them into the teaching career. If non-teachers think they're on such a good deal then how come they haven't joined up? It's all about matching supply with demand. If Gove et al **** around too much then they'll be a shortfall in teacher numbers in 5-10 years time and the moaners will have fresh opportunities to moan about the incentives being offered to get numbers back up.

[Barry Sanchez]

IMO it's pretty stupid to moan about individual aspects of a public sector workers package. When you apply for a job you look at the whole package. Good holidays and pensions are/were a feature of the package presented to graduates to entice them into the teaching career. If non-teachers think they're on such a good deal then how come they haven't joined up? It's all about matching supply with demand. If Gove et al **** around too much then they'll be a shortfall in teacher numbers in 5-10 years time and the moaners will have fresh opportunities to moan about the incentives being offered to get numbers back up.

 

There are far too many applicant teachers at the moment, the education system is far worse now though than it was say 50 years ago, health and safety, sandal wearers and the pc brigade have destroyed it.

[pap]

I do find the criticism of teachers to be unwarranted, especially Tokyo's mischievous suggestion that because he knows a teacher off to have a good time of it, all of them are going to be feckless layabouts. I've no doubt some are, I took the register for three years at Cantell because our form tutor was off for three years, before finally leaving. Utter p!sstaker. On the flipside of that, there were a lot of dedicated teachers who helped me a lot. I've also got no doubt that the job must wear you down. At least when I get orders from on-high there's a fair chance the person giving the orders knows what they're doing.

 

Incoming governments? Noobs, the lot of them. Gove is especially unconvincing.

[Tokyo-Saint]

I didn't moan about it, (for the 2nd time) it was in reply to VFTT's comment that the pay package should match that of the private sectors. As the private sector for schools/teachers is not a fair representation of market conditions - there is a half decent free option available so people only pay for the best and therefore pay loads. I took it that the package it should match is for a similarly skilled job in the private sector. I then (admittedly mischievously) pointed out that the holiday allowance is not the same as that of the public sectors (again similar skilled jobs - not necessarily teaching).

 

The facebook update was real, from a teacher in my family and it was the timing of it that was lols. Just as someone is trying to convince me that teachers will spend the summer marking and preparing lessons, on the very next tab, a teacher is rubbing my/others nose in their long holiday.

 

It wasn't really the topic of the thread though, just a reply to one poster. It is like the army argument, people know what they are applying and getting in to, it is their career choice. If they don't like it cause they want more money and are prepared to sacrifice holiday & pension, leave, I did.

[badgerx16]

There are far too many applicant teachers at the moment, the education system is far worse now though than it was say 50 years ago, health and safety, sandal wearers and the pc brigade have destroyed it.

 

In which case Gove, as the fifth Horseman, will bury it forever.

[buctootim]

There are far too many applicant teachers at the moment, the education system is far worse now though than it was say 50 years ago, health and safety, sandal wearers and the pc brigade have destroyed it.

 

Own up Bazza, you have no idea about the current education system. Your missus is pregnant with your first born so don't have kids in school, you don't work in a school, but you do read the hand wringing press.

[Barry Sanchez]

Own up Bazza, you have no idea about the current education system. Your missus is pregnant with your first born so don't have kids in school, you don't work in a school, but you do read the hand wringing press.

 

No I am saying the education system is not as good as it was.

[View From The Top]

Enjoy your 6 week holiday must be at least 8 weeks since half term.

 

FE mate, only 4 weeks off!

[aintforever]

Amazing that the politics of envy works so well, isn't it?

 

Shame no-one really follows the threads. Didn't know about the HS2 budget increase, but I'm entirely unsurprised.

 

Winter fuel payments going to ex-pats is the sort of anomaly that is created when you have a very simple bar for qualification; the same thing is happening in reverse with Child Benefit. If you don't have proper tests, then you will always have them. If you do have proper tests, the testing regime could end up costing more than the anomalies you're looking to avoid.

 

What really irks me is that cuts are not inevitable, yet people think that they are. They're ultimately a sign of bad management over successive governments.

 

It's nothing to do with envy, unless you think making a system fair is about envy.

 

I have alot of friends who work in the public sector and it seems to be more of a cushty 'job for life' attitude compared to those in the private sector. If they don't get their inflation linked rise every year they cry like babies and have some union going on strike for them whereas in the private sector if your company doesn't make money you are out on your arse.

 

My company has just had to sack someone for not performing 100%, no redundancy pay, just the sack. No-one has had a pay rise for years because of the economic climate. IMO there is a huge gulf between the attitudes of public sector and private. Because of the global economic situation I think there is going to have to be changes made.

[Tokyo-Saint]

FE mate, only 4 weeks off!

 

Dam these government cutbacks!

[View From The Top]

My normal working day is 08.30 - 16.30 and then I reckon an hour per night once the kids are in bed. That changes depending on the time of year. Not unusual to do an extra 10hrs per week marking or planning. Part of the job and the trade off for the holidays.

 

I do no college work at weekends.

[Barry Sanchez]

It's nothing to do with envy, unless you think making a system fair is about envy.

 

I have alot of friends who work in the public sector and it seems to be more of a cushty 'job for life' attitude compared to those in the private sector. If they don't get their inflation linked rise every year they cry like babies and have some union going on strike for them whereas in the private sector if your company doesn't make money you are out on your arse.

 

My company has just had to sack someone for not performing 100%, no redundancy pay, just the sack. No-one has had a pay rise for years because of the economic climate. IMO there is a huge gulf between the attitudes of public sector and private. Because of the global economic situation I think there is going to have to be changes made.

 

You sound more like a tory everyday? How is Ms Berger and the constituency?

[View From The Top]

Dam these government cutbacks!

 

Normal FE mush.

[Tokyo-Saint]

My normal working day is 08.30 - 16.30 and then I reckon an hour per night once the kids are in bed. That changes depending on the time of year. Not unusual to do an extra 10hrs per week marking or planning. Part of the job and the trade off for the holidays.

 

I do no college work at weekends.

 

This seems realistic and is inline with my experience.

[aintforever]

You sound more like a tory everyday? How is Ms Berger and the constituency?

 

I can't stand the tories but do think unions are soon to be a thing of the past. We all work in a global market now, if you don't like the conditions you can get another job. I'm not saying that's right, just how the situation is for most of us.

[Barry Sanchez]

I can't stand the tories but do think unions are soon to be a thing of the past. We all work in a global market now, if you don't like the conditions you can get another job. I'm not saying that's right, just how the situation is for most of us.

 

A race to the bottom is something I will never subscribe to, I salute the teachers for getting a great deal years ago, is it fair? No its not but its for the teachers quite rightly to fight to keep.

Would private workers like to enjoy the public workers rights?

 

Join a Union.

 

Together we are stronger.

 

Thats as obvious as its lame to write.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

No I am saying the education system is not as good as it was.

 

But what are you actually basing that on? When was it, in your view, so much better?

[aintforever]

A race to the bottom is something I will never subscribe to, I salute the teachers for getting a great deal years ago, is it fair? No its not but its for the teachers quite rightly to fight to keep.

Would private workers like to enjoy the public workers rights?

 

Join a Union.

 

Together we are stronger.

 

Thats as obvious as its lame to write.

 

I agree with the roles of unions in principle but in the current climate my company is stronger because it can sack people who are not 100%, employ polish workers for peanuts and tell people to go look elsewhere if they want a pay rise. That is how we have survived where many competitors (many of who's staff we now employ) have gone bust.

 

Because of the current climate we could employ teachers much more cheaply than we do. Graduates don't have the same choices they had when I graduated.

[Barry Sanchez]

I'm basing it on what my mother says and my ex partner who used to be a teacher (have not seen her for a while to be fair so she could be doing something different).

Its been a gradual slip for decades, a weakening of schools rights to pupils, discipline is one (caning) example.

[Barry Sanchez]

I agree with the roles of unions in principle but in the current climate my company is stronger because it can sack people who are not 100%, employ polish workers for peanuts and tell people to go look elsewhere if they want a pay rise. That is how we have survived where many competitors (many of who's staff we now employ) have gone bust.

 

Because of the current climate we could employ teachers much more cheaply than we do. Graduates don't have the same choices they had when I graduated.

 

So a race to the bottom and the person at the top benefits, no good for the Country at all.

[View From The Top]

Because of the current climate we could employ teachers much more cheaply than we do. Graduates don't have the same choices they had when I graduated.

 

What a muppet.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

I'm basing it on what my mother says and my ex partner who used to be a teacher (have not seen her for a while to be fair so she could be doing something different).

Its been a gradual slip for decades, a weakening of schools rights to pupils, discipline is one (caning) example.

 

So not based on much then really.

[Barry Sanchez]

I agree with the roles of unions in principle but in the current climate my company is stronger because it can sack people who are not 100%, employ polish workers for peanuts and tell people to go look elsewhere if they want a pay rise. That is how we have survived where many competitors (many of who's staff we now employ) have gone bust.

 

Because of the current climate we could employ teachers much more cheaply than we do. Graduates don't have the same choices they had when I graduated.

 

So a race to the bottom and the person at the top benefits, no good for the Country at all.

[Barry Sanchez]

So not based on much then really.

 

So only current or previous teachers can passed comment? Christ thats precious.

[suewhistle]

You sound more like a tory everyday? How is Ms Berger and the constituency?

 

Christ, that's rich coming from you spouting your Daily Wail tripe.

[suewhistle]

employ polish workers for peanuts .

 

 

And you're boasting about it?!

[Barry Sanchez]

Christ, that's rich coming from you spouting your Daily Wail tripe.

 

I read the Manchester Guardian Mrs Whistle.

[aintforever]

And you're boasting about it?!

 

Not boasting, just saying that is what we do. We have to do it because our competitors down the road do. They have to because we are both competing with companies in Europe with pools of cheap labour.

 

That's why the nature of today's globalized market means unions will be a thing of the past.

[aintforever]

And you're boasting about it?!

 

Not boasting, just saying that is what we do. We have to do it because our competitors down the road do. They have to because we are both competing with companies in Europe with pools of cheap labour.

 

That's why the nature of today's globalized market means unions will be a thing of the past.

[Tokyo-Saint]

You can say that again.

[badgerx16]

I hate the tories but I have to agree is it fair that others pay for others pensions? Is that fair?

 

Technically we are all paying for somebody else's pensions; when I retire the proceeds from the LGPS will be generated from the investment income, plus the contributions of those working at that time. The same with the state pension, what we pay in today gets paid out to the current batch of pensioners, when we get our entitlement, it will be the earning potential of today's teenagers that funds it ( ).

[Barry Sanchez]

Technically we are all paying for somebody else's pensions; when I retire the proceeds from the LGPS will be generated from the investment income, plus the contributions of those working at that time. The same with the state pension, what we pay in today gets paid out to the current batch of pensioners, when we get our entitlement, it will be the earning potential of today's teenagers that funds it ( ).

 

My pension is put in by myself and my company, no one else funds it, probably the reason why its in **** street, the tax payer in fairness should not fund others private (not state) pension?

I applaud it and want it to continue for the sake of the teachers but for the sake of fairness how can it?

[trousers]

Eric Pickles ‏@EricPickles

Putting final touches to the LGA speech #lgaconf13 pic.twitter.com/ls9ZWDz3rM

 

 

George Osborne ‏@George_Osborne

Nice one Eric

Edited 27 June, 2013 by trousers

[badgerx16]

Eric Pickles ‏@EricPickles

Putting final touches to the LGA speech #lgaconf13 pic.twitter.com/ls9ZWDz3rM

 

 

George Osborne ‏@George_Osborne

Nice one Eric

 

What size would he be if he didn't have a healthy diet ?

[badgerx16]

My pension is put in by myself and my company, no one else funds it,

 

Same as mine. The fact that my employer is technically the tax payer makes no difference.

[Barry Sanchez]

Same as mine. The fact that my employer is technically the tax payer makes no difference.

 

Of course it does, can I ask not to pay it?

[badgerx16]

Of course it does, can I ask not to pay it?

No, in the same way I cannot choose to stop funding foreign military adventures, or supplying overseas aid to countries with their own space programs.

 

If your company became a supplier to the public sector, you would effectively be paid by public money, would you then decide to not take the benefits of that investment ?