Hedgehog Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 Tragic event, but can someone have a look at the footage of the crash and tell me I am wrong, but looking at the cars on the motorway above, that can only be going at 70mph or so, are going at roughly the same speed. And that the carriage behind the train seems to go up in the air slightly before it even reaches the bend? Could there have been another problem rather thsan driver speed error? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 25 July, 2013 Share Posted 25 July, 2013 The depth can be deceptive but I'd have said that train was doing well North of a tonne when the accident happened. Certainly look far in excess of what would 'look' to be a safe speed around a bend like that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytHe8aJyjfk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudders Posted 26 July, 2013 Share Posted 26 July, 2013 Clearly a banana skin left on the track, tragic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudders Posted 26 July, 2013 Share Posted 26 July, 2013 (edited) And that the carriage behind the train seems to go up in the air slightly before it even reaches the bend? Agree with this, the 2nd/3rd carriage is already starting to lift up as it hits the bend Edited 26 July, 2013 by Spudders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100%Red&White Posted 26 July, 2013 Share Posted 26 July, 2013 Tragic event, but can someone have a look at the footage of the crash and tell me I am wrong, but looking at the cars on the motorway above, that can only be going at 70mph or so, are going at roughly the same speed. And that the carriage behind the train seems to go up in the air slightly before it even reaches the bend? Could there have been another problem rather thsan driver speed error? If the 'black-box' doesn't reveal the speed at the time for some reason then, if they've got footage of this crash, they should have numerous previous recordings of this train negotiating the bend at the correct speed for comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 26 July, 2013 Share Posted 26 July, 2013 Front power car is obviously pulling as the rear one is pushing, the 2nd carriage derails and is lifted and inturn the rear power car shunts the carriage fully over the rails and into the wall, the lead car is only derailed by the fact of it being connected to the derailed carriages otherwise would have continued on the rails, the whole episode could be many many faults, track, control/signalman allowing such speed,automatic shut off, driver going that speed, crack in rail lifting a carraige for a mili second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 26 July, 2013 Share Posted 26 July, 2013 If you know the length of the train, then you can work out what speed it's doing from this footage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 26 July, 2013 Share Posted 26 July, 2013 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2378756/Spain-train-crash-black-box-reveals-drivers-agony-moments-120mph-Santiago-Compostela-derailment.html [h=1]'I f***** up, I want to die': Black box reveals Spanish driver's agony moments after 120mph train derailed killing at least 80 people[/h] Seeing he tweeted a picture of the speedo on a previous trip & Black box shows he was doing 190kmh on an 80kmh bend.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 26 July, 2013 Share Posted 26 July, 2013 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2378756/Spain-train-crash-black-box-reveals-drivers-agony-moments-120mph-Santiago-Compostela-derailment.html Seeing he tweeted a picture of the speedo on a previous trip & Black box shows he was doing 190kmh on an 80kmh bend.. If thats the case, then the question has to asked why was this not pulled up before? Why was he still driving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 26 July, 2013 Share Posted 26 July, 2013 Front power car is obviously pulling as the rear one is pushing, the 2nd carriage derails and is lifted and inturn the rear power car shunts the carriage fully over the rails and into the wall, the lead car is only derailed by the fact of it being connected to the derailed carriages otherwise would have continued on the rails, the whole episode could be many many faults, track, control/signalman allowing such speed,automatic shut off, driver going that speed, crack in rail lifting a carraige for a mili second. Quite. (I'm not sure I've ever seen you post this sensibly, so wildly guessing you've worked in the railways or are from a railway family.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 26 July, 2013 Share Posted 26 July, 2013 trainspotter innit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 26 July, 2013 Share Posted 26 July, 2013 If thats the case, then the question has to asked why was this not pulled up before? Why was he still driving? probably because of some quirky clause in the "Universal Fair Treatment for Nutjobs and Whackos Act of 1988" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 26 July, 2013 Share Posted 26 July, 2013 If you watch the video of the train going through the same section at a safe speed there is a massive difference, theres about 9-10 seconds between the bridges whereas the crash one is about 3-4. I expect the second carriage comes off first because it has the generator inside which probably weighs a lot. WTF was the driver thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmacian_saint Posted 26 July, 2013 Share Posted 26 July, 2013 (edited) Tragic event, but can someone have a look at the footage of the crash and tell me I am wrong, but looking at the cars on the motorway above, that can only be going at 70mph or so, are going at roughly the same speed. And that the carriage behind the train seems to go up in the air slightly before it even reaches the bend? Could there have been another problem rather thsan driver speed error? It's just aerodynamics I think. The first carriages are the ones where you feel the bend more, and the change in direction of the axes of the carriages is more accentuated than in the later ones as they are closer to the force dragging them. This is why the 2nd and 3rd were the first ones to lift up. The change in direction happened faster than what they are capable of absorbing. Plus at a higher speed their weight would feel much heavier than what their axes could deal with. Sorry but my physics knowledge isn't great, but I think it's something along those lines. I used to have Microsoft Train Simulator on my pc when I was in my early teens, and I do remember being very surprised in train rides gone wrong to see the carriages causing the derailment rather than my machine at full speed. Another thing few people have mentioned is that carriages themselves have speed limits. Edited 26 July, 2013 by melmacian_saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeShmoe Posted 26 July, 2013 Share Posted 26 July, 2013 Looks like the driver is at fault, refusing to answer questions, but aren't there failsafes on modern trains to stop over speed happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 27 July, 2013 Share Posted 27 July, 2013 (edited) Quite. (I'm not sure I've ever seen you post this sensibly, so wildly guessing you've worked in the railways or are from a railway family.) I've worked in the sex industry (now a Shark rustler) and one of the punters is a senior manager and gave me the info, there we go Verbal back to normal mate. Edited 27 July, 2013 by Barry Sanchez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 27 July, 2013 Share Posted 27 July, 2013 trainspotter innit Flaresy I am currently knocking one out at the end of Swindon platform after seeing a train go through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 27 July, 2013 Share Posted 27 July, 2013 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2378756/Spain-train-crash-black-box-reveals-drivers-agony-moments-120mph-Santiago-Compostela-derailment.html Seeing he tweeted a picture of the speedo on a previous trip & Black box shows he was doing 190kmh on an 80kmh bend.. It doesn't say that doesit? Says he out a pic of a speedo at 125 mph last year, but nothing to say that wasn't within the speed limit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunrise Posted 27 July, 2013 Share Posted 27 July, 2013 Looks like the driver is at fault, refusing to answer questions, but aren't there failsafes on modern trains to stop over speed happening? Yes, there are over here at least, we have TPWS. It is fitted on the approach to platforms at termini, the approach to curves where the permanent speed restriction is quite a bit lower than the previous line speed, on the approach and at most signals should a train pass a signal at danger without authority. There's 2 'loops' in the '4 foot'(the space between the two running rails), an arming and a trigger loop, these are set to a certain speed, should the train pass over these two loops, over that speed, the brakes should automatically apply. There's a train stop sensor at most signals, so should a train pass a signal at danger, the brakes should automatically apply. I say most signals, as it is not fitted at all, why I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 28 July, 2013 Share Posted 28 July, 2013 Looks like the driver is at fault, refusing to answer questions That's nice, kill 78 people then refuse to talk to the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 July, 2013 Share Posted 30 July, 2013 Starting to look like driver made an error whilst on an unfamiliar route and possibly distracted by incoming call. TPS wasnt yet fitted for last 4km of that track. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23507348 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 30 July, 2013 Share Posted 30 July, 2013 yeah i just read bout this. I'm driving at the mo so can't say much but i think it is disgrace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 30 July, 2013 Share Posted 30 July, 2013 Living on the forum Permiban edge bear? + 1 rep points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 30 July, 2013 Share Posted 30 July, 2013 srsly? Do you think i should do edit? Is anyone offence? I will change it to just say RIP pilgrims if there is offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 30 July, 2013 Share Posted 30 July, 2013 Who knows bear? They are very sensitive mods you know. Also I like you being a little bit scared sometimes. It's a win win situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Crab Posted 30 July, 2013 Share Posted 30 July, 2013 Good job we've got SaintsWeb's finest scientific minds on the case. As always, whenever there is a tragic world event, you can rely on this place to investigate and solve any unresolved issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 July, 2013 Share Posted 30 July, 2013 Good job we've got SaintsWeb's finest scientific minds on the case. As always, whenever there is a tragic world event, you can rely on this place to investigate and solve any unresolved issues. Im not sure posting up a link to a BBC news report counts as leading edge forensics, but its sweet that you thought so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 30 July, 2013 Share Posted 30 July, 2013 Hi crabs, From your experience driving trains, what would say say is the cause of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 30 July, 2013 Share Posted 30 July, 2013 Good job we've got SaintsWeb's finest scientific minds on the case. As always, whenever there is a tragic world event, you can rely on this place to investigate and solve any unresolved issues. I wonder if the train driver is a 'crisis actor'?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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