Do we have one of the top 5 best academies in Europe?

[Wiggles31]

I would say 100% definitely.

 

Modern facilities (which just got even more modern), promotion of using British players in the first team regularly, big name players who have come through each season (some who have gone onto to play regularly at CL/international levels) development centres in parts of the south (see MLG thread) and a huge scouting team working all over the world also looking at young players.

 

Something to be tremendously proud of and a resource which we will continue to flourish from.

 

Its just a shame that the PL is so money ridden because the chances of a Dortmund or Atheletico are minimal.

[slickmick]

Your right. Not many teams can boast about having four current England internationals that have all come through their academy, add to that we have produced the most expensive player in the world.

[Jack]

I would say definitely top 6. If not top 7. We're the envy of most of Europe.

[farawaysaint]

Your right. Not many teams can boast about having four current England internationals that have all come through their academy, add to that we have produced the most expensive player in the world.

 

And most expensive fullback, (he's also the 4th most expensive defender I think as well as most expensive teenager).

 

As to top 5, good question, Barca, Ajax, Feyenoord, Sporting, we are most definitely up there I'm shocked to say it but we may just be top 5. It is however worth bearing in mind that we have lost quite a few staff members that made us so successful to bigger and better things.

[Wiggles31]

Barca has to be number one.

 

Its pretty awesome though. Certainly number one in the UK by miles.

[Doctoroncall]

It would be hard to judge unless you know about the academies around the world, not just in Europe.

 

Also, would Bayern be a top five candidate? what are the criteria - number of players that get a contract with a club.

 

I think the club can boast a very good academy.

[Turkish]

It would be hard to judge unless you know about the academies around the world, not just in Europe.

 

Also, would Bayern be a top five candidate? what are the criteria - number of players that get a contract with a club.

 

I think the club can boast a very good academy.

 

His question was do we have one of the top 5 academies in Europe.

[Rebel]

Top 5? Probably not. Top 10 possibly.

 

You've got Feyenoord and Ajax in Holland. Barca and Bayern. Borussia Dortmund maybe? Sporting Lisbon probably - although they import a lot of Brazilians and Argentinians. and that is just Europe.

 

River Plate in Argentina seem to produce more than their fair share of great players.

 

And I'm sure if you asked Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool fans they would say they did although I would disagree with them.

 

Fulham have a great academy at the moment based on our old academy staff - Huw Jennings et Al.

 

I think in the next couple of years if Ward-Prowse, Reed, Targett, Chambers, McQueen, Gallagher, Seagar, Hesketh, Sims and the others live up to their promise then yes we porbably will have.

[Saint IQ]

My current Top 20 (In the world!)

 

1. Barcelona

2. Sporting Lisbon

3. Ajax

4. Bayern Munich

5. Southampton

6. Man United

7. Liverpool

8. Sao Paulo

9. Santos

10. Dinamo Zagreb

11. Real Madrid

12. Stade Rennais

13. Feyenoord

14. Anderlecht

15. FC Groningen

16. Everton

17. Arsenal

18. Boca Juniors

19. AC Milan

20. Juventus

[Bearsy]

I read earlier right, that Real Madrid spent more on the transfer fees for Ronaldo, Bale & James than Ajax has in it's entire history.

 

Makes you think, innit!

[Doctoroncall]

His question was do we have one of the top 5 academies in Europe.

 

Doh! Thanks MLG

 

 

The main point still stands that it's hard to judge without knowing how many have 'made it' through the ranks at other clubs, I wouldn't know if Porto is any good, whereas I know Feyenoord has received national recognition at producing and playing their own.

[Wes Tender]

Well, according to Batman on the other related thread, a youngster stands an equal chance of advancing his career via the Chelski academy as he does with us. So their academy must be right up there too, eh?

[Batman]

Well, according to Batman on the other related thread, a youngster stands an equal chance of advancing his career via the Chelski academy as he does with us. So their academy must be right up there too, eh?

 

did I say that?

I said that dont be so dismissive of others in saying we are 'the bestest'

[Wes Tender]

did I say that?

I said that dont be so dismissive of others in saying we are 'the bestest'

 

Me:

Mind you, nothing really to worry about there, as our academy offers much more than Chelski's in terms of potential advancement into the first team and therefore a better career move.

 

Batman:

in your eyes, maybe

 

Now we have some backtracking and some padding out of hidden meanings. And I await your comparable list of all the youngsters who have come through the Chelski academy recently and played in their first team. On the other thread there is some waffle about how much money they get as Chelsea academy players, but I suspect that the youngsters would rather be playing first team football and putting themselves in the shop window like Shaw did recently. Then they can earn the serious money when the World's top clubs buy them, and people never forget that they were a product of our academy. I don't hear much in the way of a player being a product of the Chelski academy and them being cited as a sensible way to produce promising English youngsters affordably.

[Batman]

Me:

 

Batman:

 

Now we have some backtracking and some padding out of hidden meanings. And I await your comparable list of all the youngsters who have come through the Chelski academy recently and played in their first team. On the other thread there is some waffle about how much money they get as Chelsea academy players, but I suspect that the youngsters would rather be playing first team football and putting themselves in the shop window like Shaw did recently. Then they can earn the serious money when the World's top clubs buy them, and people never forget that they were a product of our academy. I don't hear much in the way of a player being a product of the Chelski academy and them being cited as a sensible way to produce promising English youngsters affordably.

 

im not backtracking. Just suggest that the 18 year olds in the chelsea u21s or what ever that are on over £20k per week will probably move to a big club in europe, like De Bryne, who went to the world cup.

[Wes Tender]

im not backtracking. Just suggest that the 18 year olds in the chelsea u21s or what ever that are on over £20k per week will probably move to a big club in europe, like De Bryne, who went to the world cup.

 

We're talking academies here, not other team's U21s. By academy players, I'm talking about youngsters picked up at a very tender age who spend several years at a club, not some 17 or 18 year old bought in from some European team because they have potential. Chelsea are renowned for hoovering up these kids who show promise and then loaning them out in the hope that they develop into a player that can one day be good enough to play for them. The majority of them sink without trace.

 

Come on, I'm still waiting for your list of Chelsea academy products who have made it into their first team, which will be the acceptable evidence that their academy is the equal of ours.

[Batman]

We're talking academies here, not other team's U21s. By academy players, I'm talking about youngsters picked up at a very tender age who spend several years at a club, not some 17 or 18 year old bought in from some European team because they have potential. Chelsea are renowned for hoovering up these kids who show promise and then loaning them out in the hope that they develop into a player that can one day be good enough to play for them. The majority of them sink without trace.

 

Come on, I'm still waiting for your list of Chelsea academy products who have made it into their first team, which will be the acceptable evidence that their academy is the equal of ours.

in their first team? no, but many have made very lucrative careers around europe.

the success of the academy is also down to us being a league 1, chanpionship and now midtable prem club where 8th is our league title

IF we were top 4(ish) no way would our academy look as successful

Edited 25 July, 2014 by Batman

[Jez]

Do any of us really know enough about the European academies? I don't.

 

 

I'd like to see a list of the players in top flight football, or that have played top flight football, over the past say 5 years (so it is current) for all the top 10 teams mentioned above. Otherwise until then, how can you compare? One Ronaldo vs one Bale. I don't personally know enough about Sporting Lisbon to know much else who they have produced, but I know that Saints have produced a lot of top flight footballers (not just your Bale, Walcott, Shaw, Ox etc) in recent times but have no idea how many Portugese players that were schooled at Sporting now play top flight in Portugal or elsewhere around the world.

 

But still, regardless of all that, we have just massively improved our academy, so if it is excellent based purely on past results, i.e. players we see or are worth x millions, that surely we have just hugely improved our academy and we need to go another 3 places up that fictional and unprovable list!

 

Regardless of proof, I would argue we are surely in the top 5 in the world. As for any Chelsea arguments.... really?

[Wes Tender]

in their first team? no, but many have made very lucrative careers around europe.

 

So our academy is far better than Chelsea's at identifying players at a tender age and developing them into players capable of stepping up into the first team, where they will be visible to the top clubs of England and Europe.

 

So if the choice is to join us and follow in the footsteps of Bale, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Shaw, Lallana, etc, or to join Chelsea and scratch your head when looking at examples of kids who have gone through that process successfully there, then I suspect that we are the better option to further their careers. Which is what I said.

[sidthesquid]

I read earlier right, that Real Madrid spent more on the transfer fees for Ronaldo, Bale & James than Ajax has in it's entire history.

 

Makes you think, innit!

 

Probably more than ours, too

[The9]

in their first team? no, but many have made very lucrative careers around europe.

the success of the academy is also down to us being a league 1, chanpionship and now midtable prem club where 8th is our league title

IF we were top 4(ish) no way would our academy look as successful

 

That's nonsense and you know it. You're saying Walcott, Bale and Oxlade-Chamberlain wouldn't look good in top 4 clubs, when all of them play for top 4 (or better) clubs. Then there's Lallana and Shaw, who have joined sides above us.

 

Add to that

 

Premier League:

Calum Chambers (Southampton)

Nathan Dyer (Swansea)

James Ward-Prowse (Southampton)

(Mike Williamson (Newcastle))

Harrison Reed (Southampton)

Lloyd Isgrove (Southampton)

Sam Gallagher (Southampton)

Chris Baird (West Bromwich Albion)

 

Championship

Andrew Surman (Norwich - still, amazingly)

(Kenwyne Jones (Cardiff City))

Leon Best (Blackburn)

Dexter Blackstock (Nottingham F)

Simon Gillett (Nottingham F)

Oscar Gobern (Huddersfield)

Matt Mills (Bolton)

Scott McDonald (Millwall)

David McGoldrick (Ipswich)

Darryl Flahavan (Bournemouth)

Harlee Dean (Brentford)

 

League One:

Lloyd James (Leyton O)

Nile Ranger (Swindon)

Ben Reeves (MK Dons)

Martin Cranie (Barnsley)

Joseph Mills (Oldham)

Oliver Lancashire (Rochdale)

(Aaron Martin (Yeovil))

Sam Hoskins (Yeovil)

 

League Two:

Arron Davies (Exeter)

Matt Oakley (Exeter)

Matt Paterson (Aldershot)

Michael Poke (Skate, lol)

Ryan Tafazolli (Mansfield)

 

Plus Tim Sparv who plays in Denmark now and Garry Monk, Brian Howard, Wayne Bridge, and (cough) Kevin Phillips who have all recently retired.

Edited 25 July, 2014 by The9

[Lazlo78]

im not backtracking. Just suggest that the 18 year olds in the chelsea u21s or what ever that are on over £20k per week will probably move to a big club in europe, like De Bryne, who went to the world cup.

 

Was De Bruyne ever in their academy?! He had broken through to the senior team at Genk in 2009 before moving to Chelsea and making his debut for them in 2012...

[Trout-Tickler]

We do have a great academy and have produced some very good players...it would be nice if some of them would stay longer. At the moment it feels as though we're only good at producing players for other teams. Anybody remember NCs vision of our teams spine coming through the academy? Not if we keep f**king selling them it won't. Have we become the Crewe of the Premier League?

[Rebel]

What's the point in having an academy if you're just going to sell all the players. I thought the whole idea of football was to win something not make money by becoming a football factory - obviously I was wrong.

 

Either that or some very very stupid / useless or incompetent people are running the club now.

 

If the Calum Chambers rumours are true we seem to be in a perfect storm - of selling our best players and relying on our youth players to rise to the premier league standard without passing 'experience' on the way'!

 

It reminds of when we sold Bridge and never replaced him because Lowe and Co were taking the money out of the club - and we got relegated.

 

And when we went Dutch with Wotte and Poortvliet and we relied on the kids - we got relegated again.

 

Now it seems we are going double dutch!

 

It seems McCarthy and Stephens will be the right back cover for Clyne. The only problem with that is players like Clyne will be off next as they want to win things - and if we barely have a first 11 and then just a bunch of kids we're not going to win much other than a lot of sympathy. But probably not even that.

 

Katherine Liebherr and/or Krueger do realise we can get relegated right!?

 

I think Koeman is going to have a horrible shock when he realises how hard and how physical - and how competitive the Premier League is. It may not be the best league in the world - but it probably is the most brutal. It takes no prisoners.