CB Fry Posted 29 July, 2014 Share Posted 29 July, 2014 Trousers is suggesting that players are leaving because Champion League aspirations have been dashed at Southampton. Edit: And I've read *plenty* of 'the dream died with Cortese' posts. He's saying players leave because other clubs offer CL Football, which clearly outranks any "ambition" of CL football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 29 July, 2014 Share Posted 29 July, 2014 Really? Put the case that our players, manager, results and final league position last year were instead, those of either Hull, Stoke, West Ham or Sunderland and tell me precisely what they'd have been able to do in our position? Following on from that scenario; put YOURSELF in the shoes of one of the players who are leaving, except that you play for one of the above (I'm presuming none of us could really care less about Sunderland or Hull for example). A more famous club, offering Champions League football comes in and makes you an offer to play for their first XI and on top of that, double your wages. Tell me you'd honestly turn that down if you played for Hull, who had just finished 8th and who had just lost the chairman and manager who gave any sliver of hope to the audacious and unrealistic hope of building a Champions League-level club from a mid-table (at best) starting position, in this day and age of football. Now I realise that many of you who agree with Baird's point of view will do everything you can to find a quick one-liner to avoid the question, or perhaps paint the hypothetical scenario I've thrown up as somehow illegitimate, or maybe even ignore it altogether and try and derail the thread. Rest assured, any of the above will be seen by those of sound mind as little more than a stomp, a pout and a sulk that lets face it, of course our stupid board can't do anything. The problem is with the state of the game as a whole and if its any consolation, I don't think its impossible that fans will look back on the dismantling of our Southampton team as a point which marked the beginning of the end of English football being any realistic sort of competition. The problem is with the state of money in football and its certainly not unique to us. Could have happened to anyone. Give yourself a break and try not to panic; its not enjoyable but there's no point desperately looking for someone to blame (P.S Sorry to pick on you Baird but I'm just using your post as an example of the general consensus I'm arguing against) To be honest its as bad a viewpoint as calling out the wristlitters, if you think we genuinely couldnt do anything about outgoings Im afraid you are just plain wrong, and if you think its a realistic scenario to lose 6 maybe 8 1st team players then I dont even know where to start. Never mind the head burying over blackmore, countless posters on here and a few of the players coming out and questioning ambition, communication and dressing room unrest. There is certainly a big level of money and moving on here, but ultimately its the manner within which players seem desperate not to play here thats worrying me. I said before this will be a very difficult situation to manage as a lack of bullish behaviour from the board will alert other clubs and pretty much put the players firmly in control. We have managed it very poorly and are in serious trouble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 29 July, 2014 Share Posted 29 July, 2014 All I was trying to articulate is why our top players are wanting to leave and Everton's (the team we're being compared to by some) seemingly aren't. I was just offering a potential explanation as to why that might be. I could be wrong, I could be right. I'm not as fussed as some are on here about being proven right. I'm just thinking out loud on an internet football forum. I haven't thought any of this through so it could be utter tosh. (Just for once) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donatello Posted 29 July, 2014 Share Posted 29 July, 2014 He's saying players leave because other clubs offer CL Football, which clearly outranks any "ambition" of CL football. No, he's saying players were committed to Southampton whilst European football was a possibility. Now it's not, they're moving. Besides, his point (as you interpret it) would only be applicable to, say, half of our outgoings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donatello Posted 29 July, 2014 Share Posted 29 July, 2014 All I was trying to articulate is why our top players are wanting to leave and Everton's (the team we're being compared to by some) seemingly aren't. I was just offering a potential explanation as to why that might be. I could be wrong, I could be right. I'm not as fussed as some are on here about being proven right. I'm just thinking out loud on an internet football forum. I haven't thought any of this through so it could be utter tosh. (Just for once) Nah, man, you're entitled to your position. I'm not dismissing it out of hand or nothing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 29 July, 2014 Share Posted 29 July, 2014 Note to self: stop this thinking out loud malarkey on a football forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 29 July, 2014 Share Posted 29 July, 2014 All I was trying to articulate is why our top players are wanting to leave and Everton's seemingly aren't. I was just offering a potential explanation as to why that might be. I could be wrong, I could be right. I'm not as fussed as some are on here about being proven right. I'm just thinking out loud on an internet football forum. I haven't thought any of this through so it could be utter tosh. (Just for once) I think you also have to factor in what is being bought - Young English talent. A rare commodity that comes at a premium. The other players Lovern, & Morgan are simply quality players that could both play for any team in Europe (IMO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donatello Posted 29 July, 2014 Share Posted 29 July, 2014 Note to self: stop this thinking out loud malarkey on a football forum No, no, please don't. I'm merely debating the point, which is the point (of a forum), isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCholulaKid Posted 29 July, 2014 Share Posted 29 July, 2014 Something is not right at our club, clubs can hold onto top players without champions league football and Everton, Stoke, WHU, Newcastle even Swansea have shown that. Fancy naming some of the 'top' players that these clubs have held on to? How many 'top' players have Stoke, Swansea and WHU got? I reckon from those 3 clubs possibly Bony is a 'top' player - and that's it. Newcastle had 2 who have both been sold (Cabaye, Debuchy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 29 July, 2014 Share Posted 29 July, 2014 Fancy naming some of the 'top' players that these clubs have held on to? How many 'top' players have Stoke, Swansea and WHU got? I reckon from those 3 clubs possibly Bony is a 'top' player - and that's it. Newcastle had 2 who have both been sold (Cabaye, Debuchy). krul, coloccini, tiote, sissoko, ben arfa, begovic, shawcross, reid, tomkins, williams, bony (off the top of my head) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 29 July, 2014 Share Posted 29 July, 2014 Everton havent been in the champions league for years, so why would there players still have faith but ours none? Everton have been trying and failing for the last 10 years. Sure theyve got close(ish) but ultimately they failed. Something is not right at our club, clubs can hold onto top players without champions league football and Everton, Stoke, WHU, Newcastle even Swansea have shown that. Sell 1 or 2 to balance the books and reinvest like Everton do..... But selling 7-8 of your best players is simply unprecedented 7-8? Only 5 so far, isn't it? Were changing them in one summer, other clubs do it over 3 or 4, that's all. It's a result if our sudden surge up the tables, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCholulaKid Posted 29 July, 2014 Share Posted 29 July, 2014 krul, coloccini, tiote, sissoko, ben arfa, begovic, shawcross, reid, tomkins, williams, bony (off the top of my head) Top players? You're deluded. I've already given you Bony. Possibly the 2 keepers - but none of the top 4 are lacking decent keepers (except maybe Arsenal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 29 July, 2014 Share Posted 29 July, 2014 Top players? You're deluded. I've already given you Bony. Possibly the 2 keepers - but none of the top 4 are lacking decent keepers (except maybe Arsenal). Bony is up for sale and clubs have offered the ££ to operate the release clause but his agent wants a guaranteed £80k per week as a basic before the player will discuss terms with clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 29 July, 2014 Share Posted 29 July, 2014 No it wouldn't have happened to anyone else. Those who think this is some perfect storm no club could have avoided are deluded imo. If Cortese was still here he wouldn't be rolling over and selling the entire squad. Utterly pathetic weak board. I think you'll find Cortese did his rolling over in January. The money was not going to be there whether he was or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 29 July, 2014 Share Posted 29 July, 2014 krul, coloccini, tiote, sissoko, ben arfa, begovic, shawcross, reid, tomkins, williams, bony (off the top of my head) Jeeze that's an awful selection of players who the top 6 definitely aren't interested in. Nice try. Aside from the keepers (top sides seem ok for those, especially as Vorm just went - he'd have been on the list last week, right?) Coloccini is past it and has been at Newcastle for 6 years, he'd have gone when he was younger than 32 if anyone wanted him, but he's injury prone too. Ben Arfa can't even get into Newcastle's team! Sissoko? What's he ever done to make him saleable? Shawcross had his moment 4 years ago and is at his level. Reid and Tomkins? Really? Whilst Bony is being touted to anyone who'll listen. Meanwhile, Calum Chambers (who is at least as midtable as those named above but a lot younger and English) is Arsenal's third most expensive signing of all time. I can't complain about any of the fees in isolation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 29 July, 2014 Share Posted 29 July, 2014 Jeeze that's an awful selection of players who the top 6 definitely aren't interested in. Nice try. Tiote has been linked with united, williams with arsenal, begovic to chelsea, sissoko to liverpool, ben arfa to arsenal, reid to arsenal..... As with the Michu example things change fast and players values can drop fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 29 July, 2014 Share Posted 29 July, 2014 seems that the days of multiple transfers are dead in the past we sold Chivers got Frank Saul plus money surely Arse, Liverpool, United had someone we could have dealt for OR is wages the issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 29 July, 2014 Share Posted 29 July, 2014 seems that the days of multiple transfers are dead in the past we sold Chivers got Frank Saul plus money surely Arse, Liverpool, United had someone we could have dealt for OR is wages the issue Don't think we're interested in their cast offs actually. Do not forget that Mr Academy is running the football side of the club now. He probably believes in the hype about England being entirely populated by Saints players in 5 years time or that we're the next Barcelona.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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