Saints Greatest XI - Best Left Midfielder Poll

[St Landrew]

Thanks for your nominations. I'm off to bed with my umpteenth Lem-Sip, and here are your last 6 players to vote for. One player only. Thank you.

[Wiltshire Saint]

Where is MLT? This place is a joke.

[westy]

WTF is Pahars doing in a left mid vote? I thought he was a striker and only played there in a defensive role and Dave Jones?

 

Like a few I'm probably old enough only to see CMFG and Pahars play anyway.

 

Get well soon St Landrew!

[Panda]

Where is MLT? This place is a joke.

 

MLT has already made the team as part of the central midfield pairing with Alan Ball. He can't be best left sided midfield as well. I know he was brilliant but we can't have him play in greatest team in every position.

[Panda]

Where is MLT? This place is a joke.

 

MLT has already made the team as part of the central midfield pairing with Alan Ball. He can't be best left sided midfield as well. I know he was brilliant but we can't have him play in greatest team in every position.

 

Pahars is there because people nominated him!

[JustMike]

pahars??? left midfield???

[paulwantsapint]

Pahars deserves to at least have a chance of making 1 of the teams

[St Landrew]

Thanks for the get wells peeps. I know I must have been somewhere near hallucinating last night because I left almost every light on in the house [all low energy, so no problem], left the bathroom window wide open, and the heating on; and worst of all...

 

I didn't leave this link to the Golden Posts:

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=14

 

Where you can find the nominations for the LM position, and all the other threads too. If you want.

[Victor]

Head says David Armstrong, heart says Nick Holmes.

[St Landrew]

Head says David Armstrong, heart says Nick Holmes.

 

But who did you vote for..? Remember, best player, not your favourite.

[St Landrew]

Just a reminder.

 

People shouldn't think this is a forgone conclusion. David Armstrong may have been the best LM in most people's living memory [yes, I happen to agree, and I spent my childhood weekends watching John Sydenham flying down the wing], but there is a B team slot to accommodate. So if you think there is a player who's the best, but are not voting because there is no point - well, there is.

[Deano6]

Just a reminder.

 

People shouldn't think this is a forgone conclusion. David Armstrong may have been the best LM in most people's living memory [yes, I happen to agree, and I spent my childhood weekends watching John Sydenham flying down the wing], but there is a B team slot to accommodate. So if you think there is a player who's the best, but are not voting because there is no point - well, there is.

 

Eh? Are you encouraging tactical voting?

[St Landrew]

Eh? Are you encouraging tactical voting?

 

No, just encouraging voting.

[Victor]

But who did you vote for..? Remember, best player, not your favourite.

 

That's why I used me 'ead!

[St Landrew]

That's why I used me 'ead!

 

As it happens, in my case, I had to use me 'ead when I chose Dave Armstrong, but me 'eart was also torn between Syddo and Nicky Holmes.

[TijuanaTim]

Armstrong is the consumate modern left side midfielder and a class of his own, but had to vote for Sydy...who else is gonna work that hard up and back + supply Saints greatest ever forward and goalscorer Big Ron with the ammo?

[St Landrew]

Tsk tsk, nobody has picked me up on the fact that I've been asking people to vote for their best quality player, and to leave out the legendary status. And then I go and write Chris Marsden Football Genius in the poll entry.

 

Apologies, it was all composed at the height of my shivering moments. It has been amended.

[Deano6]

What was wrong with CMFG? I voted for him.

[St Landrew]

What was wrong with CMFG? I voted for him.

 

 

Nothing at all. But his name is Chris Marsden. I don't want to invoke any memories of legend. Otherwise I might as well call Marian Pahars, the Little Latvian, or the Latvian Owen.

 

This poll is all about quality, not how much a player is loved by the supporters.

[Nutwood2]

There can only be one result for this and it has to be Dave Armstrong. No one comes close.

[SW11_Saint]

There can only be one result for this and it has to be Dave Armstrong. No one comes close.

Agreed. In his heyday, top top quality and unlucky not to get recognised more at internatinoal level...

[Scummer]

Otherwise I might as well call Marian Pahars, the Little Latvian, or the Latvian Owen.

 

Yeah, except Michael Owen isn't a left midfielder so christ knows how Pahars got that nickname.

[Window Cleaner]

Sorry I haven't been following the debates. How come Sydenham is in this poll??

He was an outside left, a forward. Didn't track back or defend, certainly not a "midfielder".

For those not old enough to remember, Sydenham played when we used

a 1-4-1-5 system. Forwards did not tackle,they rarely got back into their own half. Wingers winged and centre forwards hung about as near the opposition goal area as the offside rule allowed;If anyone was playing left midfield in those days it would be one of the number 10's David Burnside, Brian O'Neill, whoever wore the number 10 shirt on the day.

[derry]

There can only be one result for this and it has to be Dave Armstrong. No one comes close.

 

John Sydenham was far superior as a natural wide player, Armstrong was a good all round player not particularly quick or a natural wide player, but better than Marsden, Sydenham was a natural left winger and was at least as quick as Walcott if not quicker.

 

His pace was frightening and a natural foil for Terry Paine. As it now looks possible that Channon and Davies could well be the front two, It would have to be Paine and Sydenham wide.

 

The age of the voters is the only thing that would stop Ron Davies from being the shoe in centre forward. At one time the best in the world in his position. I wouldn't think Channon wouldn't get in.

 

Keegan walked out on us after a couple of years and I wouldn't pick him after that.

[rpb]

Sorry I haven't been following the debates. How come Sydenham is in this poll??

He was an outside left, a forward. Didn't track back or defend, certainly not a "midfielder".

For those not old enough to remember, Sydenham played when we used

a 1-4-1-5 system. Forwards did not tackle,they rarely got back into their own half. Wingers winged and centre forwards hung about as near the opposition goal area as the offside rule allowed;If anyone was playing left midfield in those days it would be one of the number 10's David Burnside, Brian O'Neill, whoever wore the number 10 shirt on the day.

 

1. It was agreed for the sake of fairness that LM and LW would be treated as the same.

 

2. Your synopsis is correct for the 50s/early 60s but once we reached Div 1, Sydenham and Paine both played as wingers at home in a 4 - 2 - 4 formation but that was changed to becoming midfield players away where we played 4 - 4 -2.

[St Landrew]

Yeah, except Michael Owen isn't a left midfielder so christ knows how Pahars got that nickname.

 

Well this sort of thing did no harm:

 

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6GIbHTHq87o

 

And we all know that Marian played mainly as a striker, but sometimes played in a deeper role on either wing in midfield too. There's no mystery to that.

[Window Cleaner]

1. It was agreed for the sake of fairness that LM and LW would be treated as the same.

 

2. Your synopsis is correct for the 50s/early 60s but once we reached Div 1, Sydenham and Paine both played as wingers at home in a 4 - 2 - 4 formation but that was changed to becoming midfield players away where we played 4 - 4 -2.

 

Not sure that you're right about that.We got to Div 1 in what 66??. Football was already leaningf to the Ramsian 4-2-4 by then and I would say (although my memory might play tricks here) that Sydenham didn't play very often in away games from 66/67 onwards. I would have thought we used an extra

defender more often than not. However it's 40 odd years ago and I don't have

a photographic memory for football formations.

[St Landrew]

1. It was agreed for the sake of fairness that LM and LW would be treated as the same.

 

2. Your synopsis is correct for the 50s/early 60s but once we reached Div 1, Sydenham and Paine both played as wingers at home in a 4 - 2 - 4 formation but that was changed to becoming midfield players away where we played 4 - 4 -2.

 

Thank you for saving me the bother, rpb.

[rpb]

Not sure that you're right about that.We got to Div 1 in what 66??. Football was already leaningf to the Ramsian 4-2-4 by then and I would say (although my memory might play tricks here) that Sydenham didn't play very often in away games from 66/67 onwards. I would have thought we used an extra

defender more often than not.

 

Sydenham played his last game for us in Nov 69 after that Tommy Jenkins took over his role. The previous season he shared the position with Channon for a while (and Gabriel four times) and the season before that Thompson - we did play with an extra defender at times during this spell (Docker Walker?) but Sydenham seems not to have been sacrificed.

[St Landrew]

We were actually playing 4-4-2 during away matches during the late 60s. There is a video interview somewhere out there in Youtube land, between Ron Davies and Jimmy Hill conducted on the day after the Saints V ManU 4-1 win at OT, for ITV's - The Big Match, where Ron tells Jimmy about the new 4-4-2 lineup we play. Curiously, Jimmy Hill makes out he's not familiar with 4-4-2, [obviously for the viewers benefit] and wants the lineup explained..! Our Ron explains in his inimitable way. I wish I could find it again, to show here.

[derry]

Sydenham played about 80 games after promotion to div1 but it has to be remembered he was 30 when he made his last appearance and had played 401 games with 40 goals. He was regular except for having to do 2 years national service, which Paine typically managed to slide out of.

 

He played as a regular in one championship and one promotion to the first division. He joined Saints after leaving school and was registered for nearly 15 years.

 

Armstrong on the other hand was with us for 6 years playing 272 times an scoring 71 goals all in the first division. But almost always played on the left of ****erill and Case or at left back. I don't really see how he is a shoe in for wide left. We played a pretty defensive formation in those days with pretty much 5 defenders then Case, ****erill and Armstrong and Wallace +1.

[St Landrew]

Sydenham played about 80 games after promotion to div1 but it has to be remembered he was 30 when he made his last appearance and had played 401 games with 40 goals. He was regular except for having to do 2 years national service, which Paine typically managed to slide out of.

 

He played as a regular in one championship and one promotion to the first division. He joined Saints after leaving school and was registered for nearly 15 years.

 

Armstrong on the other hand was with us for 6 years playing 272 times an scoring 71 goals all in the first division. But almost always played on the left of ****erill and Case or at left back. I don't really see how he is a shoe in for wide left. We played a pretty defensive formation in those days with pretty much 5 defenders then Case, ****erill and Armstrong and Wallace +1.

 

 

Hmm, some interesting points. How did Painer manage to get out of his National Service..? Did he just miss it, age-wise..?

 

I agree with you that David Armstrong wouldn't be a prime candidate for a wide left position. But then we're only using the 4-4-2 to accommodate as many players as we can. If the A Team line up shakes up as though it might, I would have Le Tissier and DA dovetailing, with Le Tiss giving the width, and DA feeding him. If they'ed played together during the same era [only a few years apart], I'm sure they would have worked things out. Both played very much with their brains as well as their feet.

[derry]

1. It was agreed for the sake of fairness that LM and LW would be treated as the same.

 

2. Your synopsis is correct for the 50s/early 60s but once we reached Div 1, Sydenham and Paine both played as wingers at home in a 4 - 2 - 4 formation but that was changed to becoming midfield players away where we played 4 - 4 -2.

 

As a matter of interest Saints played from the middle fifties, numbers 2,3 and 5 with a defensive 6 call it 4 at the back, 10 paired with 4 in the middle with 7 and 11 wide, with 9 up front paired with a goalscoring 8. That was pretty much the formation Ted played until McMenemy arrived.

[derry]

Hmm, some interesting points. How did Painer manage to get out of his National Service..? Did he just miss it, age-wise..?

 

I agree with you that David Armstrong wouldn't be a prime candidate for a wide left position. But then we're only using the 4-4-2 to accommodate as many players as we can. If the A Team line up shakes up as though it might, I would have Le Tissier and DA dovetailing, with Le Tiss giving the width, and DA feeding him. If they'ed played together during the same era [only a few years apart], I'm sure they would have worked things out. Both played very much with their brains as well as their feet.

 

No he was 6 months older but at some point had some boils in an ear, treated by the club doctor, when he went for the medical, although he could hear a pin drop, was missing some of the words said by the doctor. The doctor failed him as unfit.

[St Landrew]

No he was 6 months older but at some point had some boils in an ear, treated by the club doctor, when he went for the medical, although he could hear a pin drop, was missing some of the words said by the doctor. The doctor failed him as unfit.

 

Clever..!

[derry]

Clever..!

 

That's only the half of it, Ian White told me years ago that a lot of Saints players used to try and clatter him in training. His peripheral vision was so good, he could see them coming and they couldn't catch him with the ball.

[St Landrew]

That's only the half of it, Ian White told me years ago that a lot of Saints players used to try and clatter him in training. His peripheral vision was so good, he could see them coming and they couldn't catch him with the ball.

 

Well if there was one thing about Terry Paine it was his incredible vision. What old phrase did Ted Bates used to say..?

[Big Ron fan]

Armstrong is the consumate modern left side midfielder and a class of his own, but had to vote for Sydy...who else is gonna work that hard up and back + supply Saints greatest ever forward and goalscorer Big Ron with the ammo?

 

I think you'll find that Paine, Bridge and Matty will!

[Nutwood2]

I don't think you can in any way compare Dave Armstrong with John Sydenham. I thought we were voting for a left midfielder which Dave Armstrong certainly was. Sydenham was an out and out left winger with speed to spare, but Armstrong was part of the engine room, so to speak. He was also a very good 'finisher.' I think we need to be clearer as to what we are actually voting for here.

[Badger]

That's only the half of it, Ian White told me years ago that a lot of Saints players used to try and clatter him in training. His peripheral vision was so good, he could see them coming and they couldn't catch him with the ball.

 

Did Ted Bates employ a specialist eye coach ?That really was quite visionary - excuse the pun - nearly 50 years ahead of his time and SCW.

 

Out of interest why did they try yo clatter TP ? Its often been suggested by older relatives that for all his skill TP was never too popular amongst team mates,is this proof of it ?

[Badger]

I don't think you can in any way compare Dave Armstrong with John Sydenham. I thought we were voting for a left midfielder which Dave Armstrong certainly was. Sydenham was an out and out left winger with speed to spare, but Armstrong was part of the engine room, so to speak. He was also a very good 'finisher.' I think we need to be clearer as to what we are actually voting for here.

 

That is also how I see them.

[St Landrew]

Did Ted Bates employ a specialist eye coach ?That really was quite visionary - excuse the pun - nearly 50 years ahead of his time and SCW.

 

Out of interest why did they try yo clatter TP ? Its often been suggested by older relatives that for all his skill TP was never too popular amongst team mates,is this proof of it ?

 

I don't think there is any doubt that Painer wasn't the most popular teammate at Saints. But I've read about Saints from the 1950's, and the young Terry used to laugh about with his teammates, and was popular then. I think it was only by the time he'd been around a bit, and also been an established England player, that his popularity started to fall off. By then he had that touch of arrogance about him which, if you back up with superb playing skill, can annoy the hell out of people. That arrogance actually communicated itself to the crowd, and they would occasionally groan if he didn't do something special. But it was hardly his fault that he was a better player than others around him. Ted Bates had the highest opinion of him, which didn't help; and by the time Lawrie turned up, Painer thought he owned the place. There was only one solution to that - Hereford United.

[rpb]

I thought we were voting for a left midfielder which Dave Armstrong certainly was. Sydenham was an out and out left winger with speed to spare,

 

No - we are voting for somebody to play on the left; whether you want him to be a winger or a midfielder is entirely up to you.

 

Most people seem to prefer the midfielder option, though.

[sadoldgit]

David Armstrong for me, no question.

[St Landrew]

No - we are voting for somebody to play on the left; whether you want him to be a winger or a midfielder is entirely up to you.

 

Most people seem to prefer the midfielder option, though.

 

Hooray..! Someone who has totally and utterly embraced the idea and understanding of the polls.

 

By my reckoning that's about 5 or 6 people who are onside.

[derry]

Paine was seen as a big influence with the manager and that was resented. Cliff Huxford gave up the captaincy because of it.

[Leicestersaint]

Nothing at all. But his name is Chris Marsden. I don't want to invoke any memories of legend. Otherwise I might as well call Marian Pahars, the Little Latvian, or the Latvian Owen.

 

This poll is all about quality, not how much a player is loved by the supporters.

 

The poll is a joke, let's face it!

[rpb]

The poll is a joke, let's face it!

 

Well I have enjoyed it.

[saintjinksie]

Chris marsden, he must be one of the worst players to grace the premiership! Lots of effort but no ability.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Chris marsden, he must be one of the worst players to grace the premiership! Lots of effort but no ability.

No ability? one of the best passes of the ball and part of our best side of recent times. Can't be bothered to get link to his goal at Ipswich as you surely are on a wind up.