What's the Plan "B" ?

[Weston Saint]

Nick take it from me John has been "invited" to find another club. He will be allowed to go for no fee as Rupert just wants him off the wage bill. This has come from (virtually) the horses mouth.

 

Have to agree, I was told the same from a source who has his finger on the pulse. Mind you that was back in early July. I know our coaches want to keep him and we desperately need someone to hold the ball (even if his work rate is ****)

 

Just maybe the thinking has changed.

[buctootim]

Nick take it from me John has been "invited" to find another club. He will be allowed to go for no fee as Rupert just wants him off the wage bill. This has come from (virtually) the horses mouth.

 

Thats true - but it was some weeks ago. There was never a plan to sell all the senior pros, but no-one knew which ones they'd be offers for so all were in the shop window. Moving on Saga and Rasiak is enough - they're not (IMO) still looking to shift John now.

[OldNick]

Plan A through to Plan z is the same as we have no option.If you are in the desert dying of thirst and find muddy water you cannot afford to wait until you find champagne.

You dont seem to have a grasp of fundamental economics, if you are losing a lot of money and you have a chance of cutting those losses by ridding yourself of a major outgoing you must do so.Saga, Rasiak etc are just those luxuries we cannot afford. I realise you have set this thread up and so you can say this time in 6months 'I told you we couldnt let the goalscorers go' but as you have not seen the dynamics of our fluent forward play you have no faith in it.

From what I saw at Exeter the cunning and guile from the forward line was heartening, its the defending from set pieces that we need to worry about.

[1965onwards]

I imagine getting all high earners off the books is a pre-requisite for continuing bank support.

[NickG]

Nick take it from me John has been "invited" to find another club. He will be allowed to go for no fee as Rupert just wants him off the wage bill. This has come from (virtually) the horses mouth.

 

you can put several of your assets in the shop window but when you have realised the savings you need you no longer need, nor want to sell the others.

 

Personally I suspect the desire is to keep him and if Rasiak does go then the desire will be stronger.

 

Will be very surprised if both go this window.

[RobM]

I was pretty sure that players held no value on the balance sheets....

 

Also what you've said is all well and good, but the value of the club is different in terms of takeover valuations...

 

Is that right, about the players? I've no grounds to say you're wrong, but it seems odd that a company could invest a huge sum of money in something and not have it show as a value on the books?

 

And yeah, I know the valuation during a takeover is somewhat different, due to shareholders being able to demand what they want. But if any club slipped down as far as we're talking, with the levels of debt we have, I'd be amazed if they could justify the same value.

[OldNick]

Have to agree, I was told the same from a source who has his finger on the pulse. Mind you that was back in early July. I know our coaches want to keep him and we desperately need someone to hold the ball (even if his work rate is ****)

 

Just maybe the thinking has changed.

Tiger is correct but I think Im right in saying that all the big earners were told this but it was who went first was to be waved goodbye.

Seeing the squads I expect BWP, JE and Rudi will be pushed closer to the front of the exit.

[NickG]

Stern John told me and a few others after Claus` testimonial that

Lowe was trying to sell him and ALL the senior pro`s.

 

trying to sell all may not mean trying to sell them all! looking at each one -probably needed - but never intending that all will go

[Weston Super Saint]

Is that right, about the players? I've no grounds to say you're wrong, but it seems odd that a company could invest a huge sum of money in something and not have it show as a value on the books?

 

 

Pretty sure that was the conclusion on one of the many takeover threads - I think the reason being that the player could break a leg or some other hideous injury, and never play again, thus holding no value????

[Weston Super Saint]

I imagine getting all high earners off the books is a pre-requisite for continuing bank support.

 

If the bank is dictating to such an extent - virtually telling us who we can and can't keep - we might as well be in administration already....

[Weston Saint]

Here is one posters report of a conversatio before the Exeter game. I give it credence because a lot of what has been said was within my knowledge.

 

Originally Posted by In the Pink

I'm going to post this here as i cant start new threads....My mate is at the game, at the same hotel that Poortvliet and Hockaday were at earlier today, he chatted to Jan for a while this is what he has fed back to me (dont shoot the messenger!)

1.Rasiak is going to Watford for 1.7 Mil euros, he wanted to leave although JP wanted to keep him.

2. Rudi - No other offers apart from Ipswitch which he turned down to them offering him half the cash per wk then he is on with us. Go home to sort his head out, but will play for Saints again.

3. Dyer - Head all over the place at mo, not leaving.

4. John - not leaving unless a massive offer. Well up for the new season & playing for Saints.

5. Euell/Thomas/Davis - Open to offers as top earners at Saints. JP wants to keep kelvin.

6. A Davies- coming along well in training, although still a bit wary...pulling out of some challenges due to fear of another facial injury.

7. Mcgoldrick- Was going to Nottingham Forest as he is homesick - JP spoke to him after West Ham game and convinced him to stay.

8. Young players - Lowe sent communication to agents of young players stating NO youngster would be sold by Saints this season. (Due to Reading showing intrest in Drew & Liverpool in a young player i forget the name off-sorry)

9. Schneiederlin - has a 5 mil sell on clause, not linked/promised to another club.

10. JP worried Lowe may sell players with out his agreement/knowledge.

 

Read into this what you will - Enjoy and Up the Saints ![/Quote]

[buctootim]

Pretty sure that was the conclusion on one of the many takeover threads - I think the reason being that the player could break a leg or some other hideous injury, and never play again, thus holding no value????

 

Players valuations on a balance sheet are very subjective. How would you have valued Claus for example knowing he was unlikely to play again but still having to pay his wages every week for two more years? Thin line sometimes between asset and liability.

[alpine_saint]

Plan A through to Plan z is the same as we have no option.If you are in the desert dying of thirst and find muddy water you cannot afford to wait until you find champagne.

You dont seem to have a grasp of fundamental economics, if you are losing a lot of money and you have a chance of cutting those losses by ridding yourself of a major outgoing you must do so.Saga, Rasiak etc are just those luxuries we cannot afford. I realise you have set this thread up and so you can say this time in 6months 'I told you we couldnt let the goalscorers go' but as you have not seen the dynamics of our fluent forward play you have no faith in it.

From what I saw at Exeter the cunning and guile from the forward line was heartening, its the defending from set pieces that we need to worry about.

 

I have no grasp of the fundamental economics ?

 

All your mate Lowe has done is buy the club 3 months by getting rid of its decent players. He is praying on someone like McGoldrick being the next goose that lays the golden egg.

 

Then what ????

 

One could argue that this 3 month delay has delayed finding an owner really interested in the club's long-term future.

 

The arguments being bandied about on TSF last year against administration, were that "we'd have to get rid of all our decent players"

 

Woah ! Guess what.....................

[buctootim]

Here is one posters report of a conversatio before the Exeter game. I give it credence because a lot of what has been said was within my knowledge.

 

All of it sounds plausible. Unusually detailed and comprehensive for a quick chat though. Also why price Rasiak in euros??

[alpine_saint]

If the bank is dictating to such an extent - virtually telling us who we can and can't keep - we might as well be in administration already....

 

Yep, and it means Lowe has no influence, and Crouch could have done as good a job........

 

No wonder Lowe can afford to go fishing in Canada as the season starts..........

[Secret Site Agent]

Come on, I'd like to know from those of you who unequivocally endorse every single action Lowe and Wilde takes, and sneer at those of us who dont, what the Plan "B" is if it turns out that the level of competition in the CCC is totally incompatible with 32%...errr..."total football" - but that in the meantime we've sold every player with any nous about them that may be able to help turn such a nosediving situation around ?

 

What happens if attendances fall due to dire results and performances as strong, physical teams pick off SFC due to good reading of the single tactic, badly executed due to players of insufficient talent ?

 

Come on, I'd like to know what we do next, except ask Messrs Barclays and Norwich Union to call in the administrators ?

 

You havent got a clue, have you ?

 

I have. Lets go into administaration and then we can all support Eastleigh.

Not you though. Your not invited.

[washsaint]

Tiger - is this the same horses mouth that told you Wilde, Lowe and Cowen weren't at Cardiff?

 

As for you Alpine....shame on you. If you had seen any games this pre-season/season you would have seen a team playing for each other, playing nice football and generally being a breath of fresh air.

 

But oh no, Alpine can only slag off a player whose scored 6 in 4 and moan, moan bloody moan.

 

If you had seen any games you would have seen that Rasiak, Saga and Thomas were all bloody terrible.

 

John is committed as is/was Euell and Wotton. Skacel, Rasiak and Saga were/are anything bu committed.

[buctootim]

I have no grasp of the fundamental economics ?

 

All your mate Lowe has done is buy the club 3 months by getting rid of its decent players. He is praying on someone like McGoldrick being the next goose that lays the golden egg.

 

Then what ????

 

One could argue that this 3 month delay has delayed finding an owner really interested in the club's long-term future.

 

The arguments being bandied about on TSF last year against administration, were that "we'd have to get rid of all our decent players"

 

Woah ! Guess what.....................

 

Alpine given your supposed experience of managing companies even you can see a business with £27m expenditure and £12m income isnt sustainable in the long or medium term - and certainly deeply, deeply unattractive to any prospective buyer. If a patient is mangled in a crash, and bleeding to death and you have to amputate a hand to save them there is very little point in bemoaning the fact that they will never play the piano again.

[1965onwards]

Players are assets,and as such their value HAS to be shown on balance sheet.As the length of their contracts reduce so does their value.This is called amortising.

[Weston Super Saint]

Players are assets,and as such their value HAS to be shown on balance sheet.As the length of their contracts reduce so does their value.This is called amortising.

 

So what value do you give a 'promising star'?

[Weston Saint]

So what value do you give a 'promising star'?

 

You don't if he is home grown as far as I know.

[saintwarwick]

All of it sounds plausible. Unusually detailed and comprehensive for a quick chat though. Also why price Rasiak in euros??

 

Well Poortvliet would be used to talking in Euro's.

[buctootim]

Well Poortvliet would be used to talking in Euro's.

 

Good point.

[OldNick]

Alpine given your supposed experience of managing companies even you can see a business with £27m expenditure and £12m income isnt sustainable in the long or medium term - and certainly deeply, deeply unattractive to any prospective buyer. If a patient is mangled in a crash, and bleeding to death and you have to amputate a hand to save them there is very little point in bemoaning the fact that they will never play the piano again.

He would complain that Bechstein had not designed the piano properly

[1965onwards]

I think young players are generally given a nominal value until such time as a realsitic value can be assessed.There are accepted conventions i believe for valuing younger players that Companies House will accept.

 

A PLC does not have discretion over what it shows on its balance sheet,although valuations are somewhat subjective with footballers .

[alpine_saint]

He would complain that Bechstein had not designed the piano properly

 

I have a much better response to that analogy, but it is not appropriate on this site currently due to another thread......

[Channon's Sideburns]

I made several points on the situation as Saintly on the Echo site.

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/headlines/display.var.2423063.0.saints_wont_be_ringing_the_cup_changes_jan.php

 

My concern is that the asset stripping (if you can call it that) is all part of Plan B - being in charge IF we go into Admin.

 

Bournemouth and Leeds are important comparisons...

[OldNick]

I have a much better response to that analogy, but it is not appropriate on this site currently due to another thread......

I get your drift Alps.

[OldNick]

I made several points on the situation as Saintly on the Echo site.

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/headlines/display.var.2423063.0.saints_wont_be_ringing_the_cup_changes_jan.php

 

My concern is that the asset stripping (if you can call it that) is all part of Plan B - being in charge IF we go into Admin.

 

Bournemouth and Leeds are important comparisons...

I think you will find the Bournemouth thing is not a good example.The former chairman etc only got back in by default. The administrators charges were obscene as well. Staying at the Chewton Glen!!!

[John B]

Come on, I'd like to know from those of you who unequivocally endorse every single action Lowe and Wilde takes, and sneer at those of us who dont, what the Plan "B" is if it turns out that the level of competition in the CCC is totally incompatible with 32%...errr..."total football" - but that in the meantime we've sold every player with any nous about them that may be able to help turn such a nosediving situation around ?

 

What happens if attendances fall due to dire results and performances as strong, physical teams pick off SFC due to good reading of the single tactic, badly executed due to players of insufficient talent ?

 

Come on, I'd like to know what we do next, except ask Messrs Barclays and Norwich Union to call in the administrators ?

 

You havent got a clue, have you ?

 

You could easily ask what happens if attendances rise due to good results and strong, physical teams are picked off by SFC during the remainder of 2008 .

 

Would we spend money in the Transfer window to gain promotion or do our financial restraints not allow us to do that

[1965onwards]

Good point Nickh,it is scandalous the way administrators operate.

 

Can't understand the lack of supervision of administrators.

 

The whole of company law needs a rethink.

[derry]

Last year Saga as a striker in the games he appeared in scored 3 goals, in the reserves he was again pretty impotent, in the friendlies he played in this season, I'm not sure he scored He ran around for Poland, was the first player substituted and didn't score.

 

Raziak performed poorly and couldn't play with John or Saga and went off to Bolton in March.

 

Euell was dire for a large part of the season, his passing was abysmal, he did try hard after being brought back after his substitution was cheered. He doesn't seem to have been too bad in preseason.

 

The club wanted Skacel to stay but he opted to leave the club in the lurch and go to Berlin, performing well in the process. Berlin want him but he is too expensive. Hardly a player we want to rely on.

 

Thomas was out for a large part of the last half of the season, if he was fit then Pearson didn't rate him. This season v Stoke his timing, going for headers was poor and on 75% of the occasions he was easily beaten in the air. To make matters worse he was at fault for two of Stoke's goals.

 

These players are not the players I would want to build a side around. Having seen Saints over 30 times last season, playing don't move, no pace, pass it to the opposition football, the three games I've seen this season so far have contained some great football, enjoyable to watch, and at least given me hope that we are turning the corner.

 

Last years team could not be any better this year, we damn near, were relegated with them. This years team will get better, I am much more optimistic now than at any time last sason. Yes we have things to sort out, winning the ball in the air and marking at set pieces. We do however have good things, pace, good passing, well motivated, fit, quick in the tackle, things we didn't have at all last year.

 

We have loads of experience, Davis, Svennson, Perry, John, Wotton, Surman,

BWP, Davies, all virtually guaranteed a place in a matchday squad. It is up to the likes of Euell, Skacel and Thomas to get their act in gear and start competing for a place.

[alpine_saint]

You could easily ask what happens if attendances rise due to good results and strong, physical teams are picked off by SFC during the remainder of 2008 .

 

Would we spend money in the Transfer window to gain promotion or do our financial restraints not allow us to do that

 

An interesting question........

 

In my opinion, Lowe would use the "windfall" to pay a dividend.

[derry]

I was pretty sure that players held no value on the balance sheets....

 

Also what you've said is all well and good, but the value of the club is different in terms of takeover valuations...

 

Only if they were brought up through the academy/reserves.

[OldNick]

An interesting question........

 

In my opinion, Lowe would use the "windfall" to pay a dividend.

You just cant help yourself, but it was a good one Alps

[John B]

An interesting question........

 

In my opinion, Lowe would use the "windfall" to pay a dividend.

 

Really

 

 

I was not expecting that as a response but I doubt very much if a dividend would be paid then as I think it usually coinsides with the end of the financial year.

 

but my original question still stands ie

 

What happens if attendances rise due to good results and strong, physical teams are picked off by SFC during the remainder of 2008 .

 

Would we spend money in the Transfer window to gain promotion or do our financial restraints not allow us to do that

Edited 14 August, 2008 by John B

[Weston Super Saint]

An interesting question........

 

In my opinion, Lowe would use the "windfall" to pay a dividend.

 

It's what the shareholders would expect if the company were to become profitable.

[Weston Super Saint]

Really

 

 

I was not expecting that as a response but I doubt very much if a dividend would be paid then as I think it usually coinsides with the end of the financial year.

 

Which has been demonstrated previously as a particularly 'fluid' event....

[alpine_saint]

Which has been demonstrated previously as a particularly 'fluid' event....

 

LOL. He's even working with the man who pulled that stunt last time..

[Weston Super Saint]

LOL. He's even working with the man who pulled that stunt last time..

 

Not to mention it's a leap year, so financial calendars are 'smudged' as a matter of course

[thelamprey]

If a patient is mangled in a crash, and bleeding to death and you have to amputate a hand to save them there is very little point in bemoaning the fact that they will never play the piano again.

 

Since when has amputation been a cure for blood loss? Still it gives an incite into the muddled thinking of these upstanding proffessors of economics.

 

If lowe life had any fundamental grasp of economics we wouldnt be in this supposed critcal state

[St Marco]

Anyone who knows me knows i am not a Lowe fan, add to that mix Wilde and well i could moan all day about it!

However i think we have to be realistic here. I said long ago if the kids work then fantastic, but if they don't then what is plan B? We don't have a plan B and that is why Plan A has to work and be given the full support by everyone even the moaners.

As i said you have to be realistic, we have no money what other routes were there? Use the same squad that put in no effort or desire for the majority of the season and only survived by the skin of their teeth last season? Or try a new approach with people hungry to succeed at the start of their careers? For me that is a no brainer. I would much rather struggle relegation with people who will run and try for 90mins then people who simply can't be botherd and are only here to get one more pay cheque before they retire.

 

I don't think many or if any expect us to get promoted this season, i don't think many expect us to battle for the playoffs. I think only the deluded believe we are a team that has to be promoted no excuses. Where as i think the far majority know this is a season where we have to ride out the financial situation we are in until we are back on our feet. As i look at the team i see a few good players who a future team can be built around. We have Morgan,Davies,lallana,Surman and potentially DMG. We have a far better chance of getting somewhere in the future with those guys in the team then we do with a squad full of Euell's etc.. And that is why i agree with Lowe on this issue and why i think it is the right thing to do. For to long we have paid overated and underperformed players who have been poor which has lead us to our current financial problems.

 

If things go wrong then the question is maybe your expectations are what has gone wrong. I expect us to battle relegation this year. But i'm realistic enough to know that without any money your options are limited.

[SaintDonkey]

If the bank is dictating to such an extent - virtually telling us who we can and can't keep - we might as well be in administration already....

 

What an idiotic thing to say! Administration means a huge deduction of points, doing what the bank tells us to do means sell the high earners if possible. Are you seriously suggesting that not selling Rasiak, Saga, Euell and Skacel woud save us at least 15 points this season?

 

Adminstration would mean certain relegation, without it we've at least got a fighting chance.

Edited 14 August, 2008 by SaintDonkey
typo

[Weston Super Saint]

Anyone who knows me knows i am not a Lowe fan, add to that mix Wilde and well i could moan all day about it!

However i think we have to be realistic here. I said long ago if the kids work then fantastic, but if they don't then what is plan B? We don't have a plan B and that is why Plan A has to work and be given the full support by everyone even the moaners.

As i said you have to be realistic, we have no money what other routes were there? Use the same squad that put in no effort or desire for the majority of the season and only survived by the skin of their teeth last season? Or try a new approach with people hungry to succeed at the start of their careers? For me that is a no brainer. I would much rather struggle relegation with people who will run and try for 90mins then people who simply can't be botherd and are only here to get one more pay cheque before they retire.

 

I don't think many or if any expect us to get promoted this season, i don't think many expect us to battle for the playoffs. I think only the deluded believe we are a team that has to be promoted no excuses. Where as i think the far majority know this is a season where we have to ride out the financial situation we are in until we are back on our feet. As i look at the team i see a few good players who a future team can be built around. We have Morgan,Davies,lallana,Surman and potentially DMG. We have a far better chance of getting somewhere in the future with those guys in the team then we do with a squad full of Euell's etc.. And that is why i agree with Lowe on this issue and why i think it is the right thing to do. For to long we have paid overated and underperformed players who have been poor which has lead us to our current financial problems.

 

If things go wrong then the question is maybe your expectations are what has gone wrong. I expect us to battle relegation this year. But i'm realistic enough to know that without any money your options are limited.

 

Frankly I think what you've said is spot on.

 

I think the issue most people have is the dressing up of this new 'style' as total football and the best thing to happen to the club for many moons.

 

When if truth be told, it is our only option, because the bank is demanding we sell everyone that costs money!!!

 

Perhaps if it had been announced as 'the last resort' a few more people would be happy.

 

I dare say we would never make everyone happy no matter what, because we're all football fans, and by our very nature that makes us fickle....

[Weston Super Saint]

What an idiotic thing to say! Administration means a huge deduction of points, doing what the bank tells us to do means sell the high earners if possible. Are you seriously suggesting that not selling Rasiak, Saga, Euell and Skacel woud save us at least 15 points this season?

 

Adminstration would mea certain relegation, without it we've at least got a fighting chance.

 

I know what administration 'means' in the footballing sense, and the inevitable points deduction.

 

I was merely pointing out that if our financial situation is SO bad [as has been alluded to], that the bank is dictating who we can and can't keep at the club, then there are definite parallels to what happens when a club is in administration.

[alpine_saint]

Anyone who knows me knows i am not a Lowe fan, add to that mix Wilde and well i could moan all day about it!

However i think we have to be realistic here. I said long ago if the kids work then fantastic, but if they don't then what is plan B? We don't have a plan B and that is why Plan A has to work and be given the full support by everyone even the moaners.

As i said you have to be realistic, we have no money what other routes were there? Use the same squad that put in no effort or desire for the majority of the season and only survived by the skin of their teeth last season? Or try a new approach with people hungry to succeed at the start of their careers? For me that is a no brainer. I would much rather struggle relegation with people who will run and try for 90mins then people who simply can't be botherd and are only here to get one more pay cheque before they retire.

 

I don't think many or if any expect us to get promoted this season, i don't think many expect us to battle for the playoffs. I think only the deluded believe we are a team that has to be promoted no excuses. Where as i think the far majority know this is a season where we have to ride out the financial situation we are in until we are back on our feet. As i look at the team i see a few good players who a future team can be built around. We have Morgan,Davies,lallana,Surman and potentially DMG. We have a far better chance of getting somewhere in the future with those guys in the team then we do with a squad full of Euell's etc.. And that is why i agree with Lowe on this issue and why i think it is the right thing to do. For to long we have paid overated and underperformed players who have been poor which has lead us to our current financial problems.

 

If things go wrong then the question is maybe your expectations are what has gone wrong. I expect us to battle relegation this year. But i'm realistic enough to know that without any money your options are limited.

 

Sorry, it is complete nonsense to state that the players are not interested and cannot be bothered considering the environment they were in and the person who was managing them last season.

 

In 2006-2007, Rasiak scored 20-odd goals in half a season, then popped up and nearly rescued the play-off for us.

 

In 2006-2007, Saganowski score almost as many goals as he had starts...

 

Are you trying to tell me these guys are suddenly shiit players ?

 

Rasiak was humilliated by Burley mid-way thru 2006-2007, and last season was Saga's turn.

[SaintDonkey]

I know what administration 'means' in the footballing sense, and the inevitable points deduction.

 

I was merely pointing out that if our financial situation is SO bad [as has been alluded to], that the bank is dictating who we can and can't keep at the club, then there are definite parallels to what happens when a club is in administration.

 

But surely you'd recognise it's better to accede to the banks demands BEFORE administration than to wait until administration both forces the club to do as the bank wills and deducts points?

[alpine_saint]

Provided a CVA can be agreed, its only a 10-point deduction.

 

Three games with a rejuvenated Rasiak and Saga playing. Go Figure.........

[Bon Call Night]

Sorry, but I am f**king livid that we are going into this season depending on David McGoldrick.

 

It is easy to criticise as you only seem to do from halfway up a mountain!

 

Perhaps we change the approach, if we have to, by bringing in the likes of Euell and Wotton in the midfield. However as you have seen nothing of the new team and its management might I suggest that Schneiderlin and Gillet are more than capable of competingon the physical front and that McGoldrick has scored 3 in 2 in competitive games or 6 in 4 if you want to add the two Premiership teams we played in preseason.

 

As has already been said we have tried a big name manager in fact two if you count Redknapp and barring a minor blip they have both been disinterested in the job. We have tried seasoned pros and they cant be @rsed, we have tried decent players and neither can they!

 

What else do you suggest we try and do?

 

How about find some investment? Nope none of that around at the moment!

 

How about remove Lowe and get someone else in? Nope tried that and that got us..... !!!!

 

So how you can blame Lowe for trying something a little different, and unlike you, have a little faith in our youth set up to groom and prepare players for the big time?

 

I too am p1ssed off by people continually sniping at Lowe, the team and generally writing us off before a ball has been kicked.

 

I would suggest that if any of these kids are good enough then we may be able to sell them to right the ship, plug the holes, and possibly refit the engines at a later date. If on the other hand you expect instant success then perhaps you should have left Saints at the same time Redknapp did, and head off for the instant gratification of the occasional reserve signing for £6m down the road.

 

I am happy that at least someone is trying to do something - whether it is right or not only time will tell, but doing nothing was not an option!!!

[Weston Super Saint]

But surely you'd recognise it's better to accede to the banks demands BEFORE administration than to wait until administration both forces the club to do as the bank wills and deducts points?

 

I think I would have to go with a 'why not manage the club more effectively in the first place and avoid this situation completely'.

 

Obviously we can't change what we've got now, but that is why I for one don't want any of the people who have contributed to this position to still be running the club...