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Terrorist Attacks - WARNING: CONTAINS DISTRESSING IMAGES

sadoldgit

By sadoldgit,
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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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Making stuff up like your buddy Sour Mash I see. Feel free to quote where I have said people are not allowed to discuss the cause of these attacks without "discussing every other criminal act committed by a non Muslim..." What I am doing is pointing out that there is an obsession on here by some to paint Islam as some kind of evil world and they feel the need to identify every last act on a regular basis, as if we are not aware of them ourselves. Yes, we know, we read the news reports too. **** happens on a daily basis. Some of it is related to religious extremism. Most is not but apparently it is a super big deal for the Islamophobes, so much so that they have to post every last news report to back up there anti Islamic stance. You are no better. Somehow you are an expert on Islam because your wife has an uncle who is a Muslim and that makes your opinion of Islam more valid than mine. You also seem to have a problem with liberals. I'll say it again, the world would be a much better and safer place to live in if more people were liberal and tolerant. You should try it sometime. You might become less of an a**e.

Would you consider antifa liberal? Or BAMN? Or black lives matter? The authoritarian left is just as bad - if not worse- than the far right. The rest of your points aren't worth addressing because they have either been debunked in this thread before or you have just written stuff to try to get a rise from me.

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whelk

whelk

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What I am saying is that why should a Muslim committed crime be worse than a non Muslim crime? We have two people on here in particular who seem to make it their daily business to look through the news reports and copy any containing Muslim related crimes on here. They are usually heralded with the line - just another day in (where ever). The truth of the matter is that you are more likely to be killed by a neighbour than a Muslim terrorist. Women are more likely to be raped or sexually assaulted by a non Muslim yet it is a big deal if a Muslim does the same thing simply because they are a Muslim. I think you will find that murder is murder and rape is rape under the law. There may be different driving forces but to the best of my knowledge, if a Muslim commits a crime it is no worse. If you think that is silly that is a matter for you.

 

You are the one who keeps wanting to use the faith thing. The thread is about terrorism not crimes. You keep going on about rapes - no one absolutely no one is saying that is a Muslim thing. 'I think you will find murder is murder' FFS who do you think you are debating with?

 

You seem to be unbelievably ignorant of what ISIS are trying to achieve and how they go about it - fact is it is a religious ideology - and yes we get it is not all Muslims. And when challenged come out with the most facile points that is nothing to do wth the debate.

And no one is siding with the racists - I have nothing in common with Sour Mash.

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Jonnyboy

Jonnyboy

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Would you consider antifa liberal? Or BAMN? Or black lives matter? The authoritarian left is just as bad - if not worse- than the far right. The rest of your points aren't worth addressing because they have either been debunked in this thread before or you have just written stuff to try to get a rise from me.

 

Worse than the right? Joke post. You are equating blocking roads and smashing a few windows with state sponsored murder. Same as you did with Grenfell. Sickening double standards.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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Worse than the right? Joke post. You are equating blocking roads and smashing a few windows with state sponsored murder. Same as you did with Grenfell. Sickening double standards.

Hold on, what exactly are you comparing here? The far left have been responsible historically for more deaths than the far right though in truth both ideologies are equally reprehensible. Nowadays the far right is mostly fringe groups widely condemned as racists who are a bit of a joke. The problem is that many get confused by what the far right actually is because idiots are so quick to label any dissenting voice a nazi or a racist. You understand that "Kek" is not actually racist right? The far left are in my view much more of a problem particularly in the west since they have infiltrated positions of power within many learning institutions and businesses. Members of BAMN and antifa have been arrested recently for arson and assault, people have had their heads cut open by bike locks swung by professors, been shot and heads have been caved in by these thugs.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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Was it a Britain first fan? If the article is to be believed, the perpetrator has not been caught yet so how can it be established if this is a terrorist attack or not yet? If he had shouted somethibg like death to all Muslims then I absolutely agree it is terror related but it appears that the reason they are not treating it as one yet is because there is no suggestion that it is terrorism related other than the attacker being white abd targeting a darker skinned person. Acid attacks are cowardly and disgusting acts by the way and I hope the person who did it is dealt with swiftly.

 

Edit: just seen they are looking for some Britain first thug. I expect once they catch and arrest him they will concede it was a terrorist attack. The authorities are pretty cautious about labeling such things early on unless its cut and dried like some of the stuff we've been seeing recently. Regardless, it's horrific and monsters like this bloke - if it was him who did it- need to be prevented from this sort of thing with just as much strength as Islamic fundamentalists should be combated.

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Jonnyboy

Jonnyboy

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Was it a Britain first fan? If the article is to be believed, the perpetrator has not been caught yet so how can it be established if this is a terrorist attack or not yet? If he had shouted somethibg like death to all Muslims then I absolutely agree it is terror related but it appears that the reason they are not treating it as one yet is because there is no suggestion that it is terrorism related other than the attacker being white abd targeting a darker skinned person. Acid attacks are cowardly and disgusting acts by the way and I hope the person who did it is dealt with swiftly.

 

Edit: just seen they are looking for some Britain first thug. I expect once they catch and arrest him they will concede it was a terrorist attack. The authorities are pretty cautious about labeling such things early on unless its cut and dried like some of the stuff we've been seeing recently. Regardless, it's horrific and monsters like this bloke - if it was him who did it- need to be prevented from this sort of thing with just as much strength as Islamic fundamentalists should be combated.

 

Yes its a similar terrorist to the politically motivated assassination of Jo Cox:

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/the-beckton-acid-attack-suspect-has.html?m=1

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Jonnyboy

Jonnyboy

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And yet another one, didn't even get too much coverage originally, at least they caught this one http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/03/teen-jailed-life-plotting-bomb-elton-john-concert/

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world-0/terror-attacks-media-coverage-muslim-islamist-white-racism-islamophobia-study-georgia-state-a7820726.html?cmpid=facebook-post

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

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You are the one who keeps wanting to use the faith thing. The thread is about terrorism not crimes. You keep going on about rapes - no one absolutely no one is saying that is a Muslim thing. 'I think you will find murder is murder' FFS who do you think you are debating with?

 

You seem to be unbelievably ignorant of what ISIS are trying to achieve and how they go about it - fact is it is a religious ideology - and yes we get it is not all Muslims. And when challenged come out with the most facile points that is nothing to do wth the debate.

And no one is siding with the racists - I have nothing in common with Sour Mash.

 

If you have nothing in common with Sour Mash why do you spend more time attacking me than him? As for the whole faith thing, where on earth have you been? There are some on here who use terrorism to put down Islam as a whole. You really need to pay more attention.

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

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You are the one who keeps wanting to use the faith thing. The thread is about terrorism not crimes. You keep going on about rapes - no one absolutely no one is saying that is a Muslim thing. 'I think you will find murder is murder' FFS who do you think you are debating with?

 

You seem to be unbelievably ignorant of what ISIS are trying to achieve and how they go about it - fact is it is a religious ideology - and yes we get it is not all Muslims. And when challenged come out with the most facile points that is nothing to do wth the debate.

And no one is siding with the racists - I have nothing in common with Sour Mash.

 

If you have nothing in common with Sour Mash why do you spend more time attacking me than him? As for the whole faith thing, where on earth have you been? There are some on here who use terrorism to put down Islam as a whole. You really need to pay more attention.

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whelk

whelk

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If you have nothing in common with Sour Mash why do you spend more time attacking me than him? As for the whole faith thing, where on earth have you been? There are some on here who use terrorism to put down Islam as a whole. You really need to pay more attention.

 

Whah whah whah. For info I have that fcker on ignore so sorry you think it isn't fair. And wager when I didn't had far more abuse for him than you.

 

And am alert and paying attention thank you but you don't really move on in debating points. But hey you are the great anti racism campaigner and defender of Islam.

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whelk

whelk

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If you have nothing in common with Sour Mash why do you spend more time attacking me than him? As for the whole faith thing, where on earth have you been? There are some on here who use terrorism to put down Islam as a whole. You really need to pay more attention.

 

Whah whah whah. For info I have that fcker on ignore so sorry you think it isn't fair. And wager when I didn't had far more abuse for him than you.

 

And am alert and paying attention thank you but you don't really move on in debating points. But hey you are the great anti racism campaigner and defender of Islam.

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

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Life's too short to challenge an ignorant racist I'm afraid.

 

I wish I could agree with you, but these people need to be challenged at every opportunity to stop their ignorant views spreading further. It wasn't that long ago on this thread when some of our more eminent posters were saying that there were no racists on here. At least we have moved past that point. The more we tell people like that that their views are unacceptable the more we will shut them up.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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I wish I could agree with you, but these people need to be challenged at every opportunity to stop their ignorant views spreading further. It wasn't that long ago on this thread when some of our more eminent posters were saying that there were no racists on here. At least we have moved past that point. The more we tell people like that that their views are unacceptable the more we will shut them up.

 

Why do you think you have been challenged so frequently?

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Sour Mash

Sour Mash

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If you have nothing in common with Sour Mash why do you spend more time attacking me than him? As for the whole faith thing, where on earth have you been? There are some on here who use terrorism to put down Islam as a whole. You really need to pay more attention.

 

Whah whah whah. For info I have that fcker on ignore so sorry you think it isn't fair. And wager when I didn't had far more abuse for him than you.

 

And am alert and paying attention thank you but you don't really move on in debating points. But hey you are the great anti racism campaigner and defender of Islam.

 

So instead of ignoring him perhaps you should challenge his views instead of mine?

 

Life's too short to challenge an ignorant racist I'm afraid.

 

I wish I could agree with you, but these people need to be challenged at every opportunity to stop their ignorant views spreading further. It wasn't that long ago on this thread when some of our more eminent posters were saying that there were no racists on here. At least we have moved past that point. The more we tell people like that that their views are unacceptable the more we will shut them up.

Two grown men :lol:

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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Look at by whom. I rest my case.

Lots have challenged you. Most gave up quite a few pages ago though because they no doubt realised that rather like Sour Mash, it's virtually impossible to have any sort of meaningful conversation with a close minded idealogue who seems most at home within their own echo chamber. The amusing thing is that you criticise Sour Mash without realising that you are the same as him, just on the other end of the political spectrum.

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

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Lots? Ok I know that you never, ever substantiate any of these types of outpourings, but let's have a list please. Interesting to see you mentioning Sour Mash at last. As far as I know you have only challenged him once in the whole thread. A case of right wing extremists sticking together maybe?

So then, I am the opposite side of SM and live within an echo chamber. I know you feel aggrieved when I say that normal Muslims are no more responsible for the terrorist acts than you or Sour Mash, but what exactly do you think that my "close minded" ideology is? You have jumped down my throat because I have said that we will not beat these terrorists by military means, you have jumped down my throat because I am not best buddies with a Muslim, you jump down my throat because I have been calling out a clear racist (despite you saying earlier there were no racists on this thread), you took Katie Hopkins side when I said she was out of order when she had a go at Muslims for not doing more against the terrorists. It sounds to me the only reason you are having a pop at me is because you have got a thing against Muslims. You pretend to support the non extreme element but in actual fact you have issues with them (do you remember being thankful that your wife wasn't a practising Muslim - does that mean you wouldn't have married her if she was?).

When this thread started I was pretty much on my own. Thankfully since those early days, may more have come on saying exactly the same things (although you only pick me up and not them) so let us not pretend I am the only one speaking up for normal Muslims. It is a shame that there aren't any actual Muslims here to speak up for themselves, but someone has to, given the drivel that some of you spout. You have no backbone hypo. You have completely bottled it on Sotonians where you just lurk occasionally and vote me down before running back here where you feel safer but still get picked up by posters who see you for what you are. I'll say one thing for Sour Mash, at least he has the bottle to come out and say what he really believes. You get away with it here (just) you don't get away with it on Sotonians that is why you have crawled back under your stone there.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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Lots? Ok I know that you never, ever substantiate any of these types of outpourings, but let's have a list please. Interesting to see you mentioning Sour Mash at last. As far as I know you have only challenged him once in the whole thread. A case of right wing extremists sticking together maybe

 

Pages and pages ago I went through and substantiated loads of the claims. It is tedious and dull but there is 111 pages of content on this thread and many posters who have expressed disagreement with some of the bizarre ramblings you have come out with. If you want a hand, then search through keywords in this thread such as "Maidstone" "belt" and "Hopkins" and that should find you at least ten posters mocking what you've written. No doubt there are many more but no I won't be trawling through months worth of content to find them all for you- it's in front of your nose should you be inclined to have a look.

 

So then, I am the opposite side of SM and live within an echo chamber. I know you feel aggrieved when I say that normal Muslims are no more responsible for the terrorist acts than you or Sour Mash, but what exactly do you think that my "close minded" ideology is?

Your adamant refusal to acknowledge the violent teachings within the Qaran, your incessant refrains of "but Christians are bad too!" when someone expresses their dissatisfaction at regressive attitudes of many mainstream Muslims towards women and gays, your ideas that dialogue and no violence is the only way to defeat IS, your belief that the Nazis were Christian, your further belief that a certain right wing commentator comparing herself to Jesus meant that she was a Christian, your belief that any criticism of Islam or the idea that the Islamic community should take at least a partial responsibility for these terrorist attacks is in some way racist. There are others but they will do for now.

 

You have jumped down my throat because I have said that we will not beat these terrorists by military means, you have jumped down my throat because I am not best buddies with a Muslim, you jump down my throat because I have been calling out a clear racist (despite you saying earlier there were no racists on this thread),

 

Another of your lies. I never said that.

 

you took Katie Hopkins side when I said she was out of order when she had a go at Muslims for not doing more against the terrorists.

Piffle and nonsense once more. I never did that. Not once, this is what I mean by you seeing what you want to see. It's sad and deluded.

It sounds to me the only reason you are having a pop at me is because you have got a thing against Muslims.

 

And here we get to the heart of the matter. It "seems to you" because you have a warped view of reality and in your mind, criticism of a religious ideology and a desire for different parts of society including the Islamic community to do more is tantamount to racism. You and others like you are a massive part of the problem.

 

You pretend to support the non extreme element but in actual fact you have issues with them (do you remember being thankful that your wife wasn't a practising Muslim - does that mean you wouldn't have married her if she was?).

Already discussed this but you ignored my previous reply. Kindly refer to that.

When this thread started I was pretty much on my own. Thankfully since those early days, may more have come on saying exactly the same thing

 

Barely anyone has said "exactly the same things" as you. Maybe in your head, almost everyone else has said much more moderate things and they have been replied to accordingly.

 

(although you only pick me up and not them) so let us not pretend I am the only one speaking up for normal Muslims.

That isn't what you are doing despite your belief that you are. Your beliefs do a lot more harm than good to "normal Muslims" and simply stokes resentment and fear because you turn a blind eye and refuse to address the problem. Moderate Muslims are the ones who want to reform the faith and who welcome greater powers to do that. I support the likes of the Quillium Foundation who recognise that Islam needs reform and that it needs assistance and leadership from those within Islam to achieve that. It's the extremists that fight against this and by doing nothing you indirectly allow them to flourish. You are part of the problem.

 

It is a shame that there aren't any actual Muslims here to speak up for themselves, but someone has to, given the drivel that some of you spout. You have no backbone hypo. You have completely bottled it on Sotonians where you just lurk occasionally and vote me down before running back here where you feel safer but still get picked up by posters who see you for what you are. I'll say one thing for Sour Mash, at least he has the bottle to come out and say what he really believes. You get away with it here (just) you don't get away with it on Sotonians that is why you have crawled back under your stone there.

 

You're pathetic. I have said numerous times on this thread exactly what I mean and yet you continually misquote me or make up things I have said because you have already made your mind up that you consider me a racist who has a "thing" against Muslims despite not being able to present evidence for this claim. You're a joke.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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And as a very wise person said, a nice quote for soggy that demonstrates why his attitude of essentially ignoring the problem and refusing to recognise it for what it is actually does more harm than good:

 

I cannot emphasize enough how wrongheaded this is. Withholding criticism and ignoring differences are racism in its purest form. Yet these cultural experts fail to notice that, through their anxious avoidance of criticizing non-Western countries, they trap the people who represent these cultures in a state of backwardness. The experts may have the best of intentions, but as we all know, the road to hell is paved with good intentions

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Jonnyboy

Jonnyboy

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And as a very wise person said, a nice quote for soggy that demonstrates why his attitude of essentially ignoring the problem and refusing to recognise it for what it is actually does more harm than good:

 

I cannot emphasize enough how wrongheaded this is. Withholding criticism and ignoring differences are racism in its purest form. Yet these cultural experts fail to notice that, through their anxious avoidance of criticizing non-Western countries, they trap the people who represent these cultures in a state of backwardness. The experts may have the best of intentions, but as we all know, the road to hell is paved with good intentions

 

Yes as we all know, the British people have had enough of experts. What we need is more good old fashioned racists, no more PC, make this bloke PM I say:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/roy-larner-lion-london-bridge-terror-attack-millwall-racist-video-racist-abuse-elephant-castle-a7826536.html

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shurlock

shurlock

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And as a very wise person said, a nice quote for soggy that demonstrates why his attitude of essentially ignoring the problem and refusing to recognise it for what it is actually does more harm than good:

 

I cannot emphasize enough how wrongheaded this is. Withholding criticism and ignoring differences are racism in its purest form. Yet these cultural experts fail to notice that, through their anxious avoidance of criticizing non-Western countries, they trap the people who represent these cultures in a state of backwardness. The experts may have the best of intentions, but as we all know, the road to hell is paved with good intentions

 

Do you knock ones off, thinking about her too?

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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Yes as we all know, the British people have had enough of experts. What we need is more good old fashioned racists, no more PC, make this bloke PM I say:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/roy-larner-lion-london-bridge-terror-attack-millwall-racist-video-racist-abuse-elephant-castle-a7826536.html

Why does calling for an end to apologism and the refusal to articulate the problems equal in your head support for bone head racists? I suppose your the sort who would call the likes of Sam Harris or Douglas Murray racist. Why are you so desperate to play the racism card? It does you no credit at all.

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

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Why does calling for an end to apologism and the refusal to articulate the problems equal in your head support for bone head racists? I suppose your the sort who would call the likes of Sam Harris or Douglas Murray racist. Why are you so desperate to play the racism card? It does you no credit at all.

 

That reminds me, where is your list of apologists for terrorists on here?

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

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Right this is my lot with you hypo. You are a boring little tick and if I am bored you can bet dozens of others are too. If you are man enough, lets take this to the beef thread on Sotonians. I doubt if you will but it is better than this tedious circular argument here. As you responded to my previous post I will respond to that, but no more from you on this thread on this forum.

 

1. You were the one who said lots of people. If you say something like that you need to substantiate it. Yes it is tedious, but if you are not prepared to back up a claim, don't make it in the first place. I'll help you out. You, CB Fry and Whelk (none of whom have a great deal of credit). So let's have some big hitters. By the way, the Maidstone claim was completely twisted. By the belt I assume you mean the bit where some of you tried to pretend that the German army were not Christians (and plenty of people came on with evidence that they were) and Hopkins, well we shall come to that next. While you are at it, let us have the list of names of posters on here who are apologists for the terrorists (yes, another of your strange yet unsubstantiated claims).

My point was an still is, if the teachings of the Koran are so entrenched in violence, why are the vast majority of Muslims peaceful? Yes Christian have performed many abhorrent acts too. Is that not true? Many people in the enlightened West still have old fashioned views about women and gays. Is that not true? No terrorist organisation has ever been defeated by the military. You still haven't explain to any degree of satisfaction how we are going to defeat bedroom based terrorists here with the army or the air force. Many senior politicians have made the point that peace with the extreme elements of Islam will only eventually be achieved by dialogue. I am not the only one saying that. Yes, a great many Nazis, including the hierarchy were Christians. You can pretend they weren't. It doesn't change history. I didn't say that Hopkins comparing herself to Jesus meant she was a Christian. I did say there was plenty of evidence that she had been raised as one and was raising her own daughter as a Christian. I am not inclined to look, you made the claim, you back it up.

3. You had an extensive go at me when I said that we would not beat the terrorists with the military. In fact I think your point at the time was that we would have to kill them all. You said that my view on Islam was invalid because I didn't have any Muslim friends (and because you have a Muslim uncle your view carried more weight). I queried on many occasions why you were getting on my case when there was a clear racist here that you were ignoring. At the time both you and CB Fry were trying to pretend I was making that up.

4. When I called Katie Hopkins on her assertion that Muslims were not doing enough to renounce or combat terrorism, not only did you defend her position, you also muddied the point by taking it off on a weird tangent about her not being a Christian. Please don't pretend that you didn't. I wasted many precious moments of my life defending myself from you.

5. I have never said that a desire for Muslims to do more is racism. I said what do you expect them to do if they don't know anything in the first place? According to the security forces it seems that plenty who do know things do come forward. There was also a big march in London by Muslims against terrorism at the time we were arguing about this point but you chose to ignore that.

6. More moderate things? What is more moderate than not we are at danger from a small minority, not the huge majority FFS?

7. Your very strange view that my beliefs do "normal Muslims" more harm than good is beyond belief. I am not part of the problem you total fruit cake, the terrorists are the problem.

 

So then, no more of this nonsense, come and find me on Sotonians and we will give the good folk here a welcome rest.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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You think about this a lot don't you? Spend your time reading some books and educating yourself. Hypo makes perfect sense and baffling the loop you are in.

I'm not reading all of that drivel. In the meantime, here is an eye opening video released today. Everyone who doesn't fancy being a close minded idealogue should watch it.

 

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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Best part of that interview around 27 minutes: "the regressive left, you claim to care about Muslims. I'm a Muslim and downplaying the extent of this problem is only making them suffer even more. We've got to accept the level of the problem we are dealing with before we can begin to tackle it. We are faced with what I call a global jihadist insurgency frankly that's what it is and no amount of lying and pretending will change that we see it as clear as day in front of us. Somalia, Nigeria enslaving women, Syria, Iraq enslaving women. It's undeniable and any attempt to deny it can only be ideologically driven."

 

There's a few on here who have some ideologically driven beliefs who would rather deny that this has anything to do with Islam even when more moderate Muslim voices like Nawaz say that the link is indisputable and that to deny the link does more harm than good.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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And another: "the left has a narrative for people like me; I'm the victim. I've been through the stuff that the left says people go through that makes them a victim- I've been through violent racism, I've been arrested at gunpoint at 15 and racially profiled. I've. Been imprisoned in the war in terror, I've witnessed torture. I am a brown Muslim and everything they say should make me a victim has happened to me but because my conclusions don't concur with their preconceived ideological script, suddenly my voice becomes illegitimate and it's incredibly patronising and colonial if you think about it."

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ScepticalStan

ScepticalStan

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Why does calling for an end to apologism and the refusal to articulate the problems equal in your head support for bone head racists? I suppose your the sort who would call the likes of Sam Harris or Douglas Murray racist. Why are you so desperate to play the racism card? It does you no credit at all.

 

Speaking of Sam Harris and Douglas Murray - interesting Podcast here about his new book.

 

https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/is-this-the-end-of-europe

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

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Speaking of Sam Harris and Douglas Murray - interesting Podcast here about his new book.

 

https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/is-this-the-end-of-europe

Thanks for that. I have heard a few interviews but I'm sure this will be just as good. I have read most of the book and it's definitely worth having a read whatever your political persuasion.

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Batman

Batman

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Thanks for that. I have heard a few interviews but I'm sure this will be just as good. I have read most of the book and it's definitely worth having a read whatever your political persuasion.

 

Almost finished his book. Absolutely excellent and highlights the damage the early Blair Govt did

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