Saint86 Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 He'll have to tread carefully there. Either stupid or brave to say what he has already tbh. Could easily see him getting lynched. For what its worth I tend to agree with what Karl Henry said. The anti racism movement shouldn't be co-opted as a wider political movement and i think very few people want to see the police de-funded in the UK etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 Le Tiss retweeted something Matt Lucas said about it being alright to be friends with someone with totally different views on twitter...someone promptly wrote "you must have a lot of non-racist friends then Matt!"....He quickly took that down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWar Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 (edited) Also, why do we now have two threads on the football discussion section of this forum specifically dedicated to discussing the black lives matter movement? One was a bit weird but two is insane, does this forum not have moderators? Edited 30 June, 2020 by TWar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 4 minutes ago, CB Fry said: Rightly or wrongly he's risking being "de-funded" by Sky Sports himself. They will want a quiet life and they'd probably like the opportunity to update their current top five Soccer Saturday pundits and bring in one who isn't a white bloke. Hold on I thought everyone all had the same opinion and there wasn't any sort of pressure to conform or punishment for going against the grain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Kent Saint Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 re MLT's badge wearing issue , it sounds a similar complaint to the poppy wearing issue raised by Jon Snow , I think it was ,who called it poppy facism IIRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 Just now, TWar said: Also, why do we now have two threads on the football discussion section of this forum specifically dedicated to discussing the black lives matter movement. One was a bit weird but two is insane, does this forum not have moderators? Le Tiss's twitter craziness is worth a thread on it's own these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Jonny Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 Just now, TWar said: Also, why do we now have two threads on the football discussion section of this forum specifically dedicated to discussing the black lives matter movement? One was a bit weird but two is insane, does this forum not have moderators? The forum is full of insecure white men - having such a focus on this is not a surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Saint_Jonny said: this has highlighted to me is just how racist, thick and moronic the general public are. Fuck the lot of you that can't see what this all about. Genuinely, get fucking fucked. Just looking at this thread is eye opening... We are supposed to live in a liberal democracy with free speech as a fundamental principle. Yet withing a few posts of the opening you have insults flying around when people can't handle an opposing view. The opposing view being to not de-fund the UK police force in this instance... 😨 And in all seriousness. People should not be forced to wear any badge. It should be for them to chose whether to wear it or not. The same goes for poppies etc. Utter madness for people to start swearing about it. Edited 30 June, 2020 by Saint86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWar Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said: Le Tiss's twitter craziness is worth a thread on it's own these days. I mean I get that, and it is funny, but we have a whole other thread discussing that too. This one will end the same way the other did, with a slap fight between old white blokes uncomfortable with discussion pertaining to their substantial privilege moaning about not being the centre of the conversation for a bit. Can't we just go back to agonising about whether Salisu will get a work permit or which one of our mediocre right-backs is better? That is kinda what this space is designed for. I read enough racist bullshit on facebook. Edited 30 June, 2020 by TWar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 26 minutes ago, SKD said: How long do they continue to drop on a knee for? until capitalism is abolished or until When the police force are defunded? I don’t think anyone has an issue with anti racism campaigns, such as kick it out etc.. but BLM has hard left political under tones, donations contribute to a left wing political party, their supporters act like thugs and actual facists. perhaps you’re the one with the ‘diseased brain’ that you either cannot think for yourself or cannot see the political agenda behind it. Ironically, this antifa communist mob were crying about lack of police spending only 6 months ago.. now they want funding abolished 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 Probably right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 1 minute ago, TWar said: I mean I get that, and it is funny, but we have a whole other thread discussing that too. This one will end the same way the other did, with a slap fight between old white blokes uncomfortable with discussion pertaining to their substantial privilege moaning about not being the centre of the conversation for a bit. Can't we just go back to agonising about whether Salisu will get a work permit or which one of our mediocre right-backs is better? That is kinda what this space is designed for. I read enough racist bullshit on facebook. Sadly for race baiters full of hatred for other races like yourself, you don't get to control what is and isn't talked about. Black lives matter is currently very relevant to football at the moment and this will be talked about. Our best ever modern day player has raised valid concerns on social media and that's also worth discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: Sadly for race baiters full of hatred for other races like yourself, you don't get to control what is and isn't talked about. Black lives matter is currently very relevant to football at the moment and this will be talked about. Our best ever modern day player has raised valid concerns on social media and that's also worth discussing. Yeah, but you've got to wade through all the other stuff he throws up like his fondness for retweeting that dodgy COVID-19 denier and stuff like that which makes him come off as a bit of a crank which is totally at odds with the relaxed and very friendly reputation he gained whilst playing. Edited 30 June, 2020 by Hockey_saint editting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 1 minute ago, Hockey_saint said: Yeah, but you've got to wade through all the other stuff he throws up like his fondness for retweeting that dodgy COVID-19 denier and stuff like that which makes him come off as a bit of a crank which is totally at odds with the relaxed and very friendly reputation he gained whilst playing. I haven't waded through anything. It's not a requirement to go through all of his social media or even agree with most of it in order to discuss this particular issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 Just now, hypochondriac said: I haven't waded through anything. It's not a requirement to go through all of his social media or even agree with most of it in order to discuss this particular issue. you don't follow him on twitter then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 Just now, Hockey_saint said: you don't follow him on twitter then. No. Why would I? Particularly if it gets you so angry. On this issue he's clearly taken a brave stand and I applaud him for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 15 minutes ago, Saint86 said: Just looking at this thread is eye opening... We are supposed to live in a liberal democracy with free speech as a fundamental principle. Yet withing a few posts of the opening you have insults flying around when people can't handle an opposing view. The opposing view being to not de-fund the UK police force in this instance... 😨 And in all seriousness. People should not be forced to wear any badge. It should be for them to chose whether to wear it or not. The same goes for poppies etc. Utter madness for people to start swearing about it. Free speech ceased to be a fundamental principle of this country years ago. The right never really believed in it, and the left have no figures like Tony Benn around anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 Just now, hypochondriac said: No. Why would I? Particularly if it gets you so angry. On this issue he's clearly taken a brave stand and I applaud him for that. It's not getting me angry...appears to be you though. Free speech was always with the proviso of being "with the confines and parameters of the law" Ducky...you should know that...you should also know it's highly open to interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 Just now, Hockey_saint said: It's not getting me angry...appears to be you though. Free speech was always with the proviso of being "with the confines and parameters of the law" Ducky...you should know that...you should also know it's highly open to interpretation. Why would me not following MLT on twitter and applauding him for his stance over a Marxist organisation make me angry? What a bizarre thing to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 Just now, hypochondriac said: Why would me not following MLT on twitter and applauding him for his stance over a Marxist organisation make me angry? What a bizarre thing to say. You just seem to be getting very aggressive about something you've not even looked at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said: You just seem to be getting very aggressive about something you've not even looked at. Not in the slightest. I read the linked article from the original poster which contained the relevant tweets from his social media. Anything else he may or may not have posted isn't really relevant for this particular discussion. I'm not sure why you feel you're forced to wade through it all in order to talk about this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 Just now, hypochondriac said: Not in the slightest. I read the linked article from the original poster which contained the relevant tweets from his social media. Anything else he may or may not have posted isn't really relevant for this particular discussion. I'm not sure why you feel you're forced to wade through it all in order to talk about this issue. Because sometimes....just like you....he has some interesting a valid points....but you have get through a lot of stuff to see some of the points he's making. This is after all, form most (BLM) about black people seeking equality and remember when I said I was always suspicious when someone shouts "marxist!!"....there you go. Nothing is ever totally good or totally bad; you always have to wade through stuff to get to the heart of the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWar Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: Sadly for race baiters full of hatred for other races like yourself, you don't get to control what is and isn't talked about. Black lives matter is currently very relevant to football at the moment and this will be talked about. Our best ever modern day player has raised valid concerns on social media and that's also worth discussing. Politics has always been highly relevant to football, as have economic conditions. It doesn't mean they deserve two threads on a section of a message board ostensibly about Southampton football club which is suppose to be "100% Saints discussion." Also, what have I said that is race-baiting or full of hatred, full of annoyance maybe, but I have said nothing hateful? Also being good at kicking a football about doesn't afford you automatic respect when it comes to your political views, I care no more about MLT's view on politics than some guy I met down the pub, his footballing past has no relevance to his views. Edited 30 June, 2020 by TWar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said: Because sometimes....just like you....he has some interesting a valid points....but you have get through a lot of stuff to see some of the points he's making. This is after all, form most (BLM) about black people seeking equality and remember when I said I was always suspicious when someone shouts "marxist!!"....there you go. Nothing is ever totally good or totally bad; you always have to wade through stuff to get to the heart of the matter. My point is that MLTs tweets on climate change or religion have very little do with what the original poster was talking about which is about MLTs and others opposition to the black lives matter movement for the reasons already outlined. You've got a clear problem with what he posts on social media you've made that very plain. Edited 30 June, 2020 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 5 minutes ago, TWar said: Politics has always been highly relevant to football, as have economic conditions. It doesn't mean they deserve two threads on a section of a message board ostensibly about Southampton football club which is suppose to be "100% Saints discussion." Also, what have I said that is race-baiting or full of hatred, full of annoyance maybe, but I have said nothing hateful? Also being good at kicking a football about doesn't afford you automatic respect when it comes to your political views, I care no more about MLT's view on politics than some guy I met down the pub, his footballing past has no relevance to his views. You thought that having even one thread about it was "a bit weird" (it's not weird in the slightest, footballers are currently kneeling and wearing black lives matter on their shirts so it's entirely relevant at the moment.) You've dismissed any opposition as "old insecure white blokes" who write "racist bullshit". That's pretty much the definition of hateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 Right, both threads have been merged since there’s a pretty large crossover anyway. Regarding the whole poppy thing, I’d say it was more akin to the kick it out badges and armbands. Both should be a matter of choice. Taking the knee clearly isn’t, so as a gesture it has basically become meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said: Right, both threads have been merged since there’s a pretty large crossover anyway. Regarding the whole poppy thing, I’d say it was more akin to the kick it out badges and armbands. Both should be a matter of choice. Taking the knee clearly isn’t, so as a gesture it has basically become meaningless. That's very subjective. To a lot of black people in the UK it isn't meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWar Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: You thought that having even one thread about it was "a bit weird" (it's not weird in the slightest, footballers are currently kneeling and wearing black lives matter on their shirts so it's entirely relevant at the moment.) You've dismissed any opposition as "old insecure white blokes" who write "racist bullshit". That's pretty much the definition of hateful. I don't hate old insecure white blokes, a lot of my family fall in to that category, I just have limited interest in hearing them spouting off about political movements they clearly don't fully understand owing to their limited, privileged worldview. And I thought it was a bit weird as this forum is for discussing saints and, while BLM effects saints in that it effects all teams, it certainly doesn't strike me as directly relevant to our team in a specific sense and therefore should likely be in the "The Lounge" section. If that sort of view is sufficiently extreme to consider me a "race-baitor" I don't know what to tell you, you must be very annoyed in most of your day to day interactions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 Just now, Hockey_saint said: That's very subjective. To a lot of black people in the UK it isn't meaningless. To someone choosing to do so it obviously has meaning. The problem is there is no way of deciphering who is making that choice and who is just being made to conform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWar Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Lighthouse said: To someone choosing to do so it obviously has meaning. The problem is there is no way of deciphering who is making that choice and who is just being made to conform. How is the same not true about the poppy? One person to my knowledge has chosen not to conform for completely valid reasons and has had a torrent of abuse ever since. Could be loads of people who tie the poppy to the British military, and all the atrocities carried out by it, and don't want to support that but are afraid of what the fans and tabloids will say about them. Edited 30 June, 2020 by TWar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 4 minutes ago, TWar said: How is the same not true about the poppy? One person to my knowledge has chosen not to conform for completely valid reasons and has had a torrent of abuse ever since. Could be loads of people who tie the poppy to the British military, and all the atrocities carried out by it, and don't want to support that but are afraid of what the fans and tabloids will say about them. My grandad was a Burma veteran and he never bothered. He always thought it was used just to raise funds for the British legion pubs for old men to get legless in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansums Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 1 hour ago, Saint_Jonny said: How can a movement that is promoting and seeking equality be described as a "far left ideology"? Apart from all the good the BLM movement will hopefully do in the future the biggest thing this has highlighted to me is just how racist, thick and moronic the general public are. Fuck the lot of you that can't see what this all about. Genuinely, get fucking fucked. Oh dear, another little ego trip for the socialists! Do some research mate, then you will understand why some of us are against the organisation 'Black Lives Matter' whilst understanding and supporting the meaning of the words. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, TWar said: I don't hate old insecure white blokes, a lot of my family fall in to that category, I just have limited interest in hearing them spouting off about political movements they clearly don't fully understand owing to their limited, privileged worldview. And I thought it was a bit weird as this forum is for discussing saints and, while BLM effects saints in that it effects all teams, it certainly doesn't strike me as directly relevant to our team in a specific sense and therefore should likely be in the "The Lounge" section. If that sort of view is sufficiently extreme to consider me a "race-baitor" I don't know what to tell you, you must be very annoyed in most of your day to day interactions. No you've sneeringly made assumptions about those with differing views that they are old, insecure and white and you've now added limited worldview and privileged to the list which is why i described you as hateful. I would suggest it is you who does not fully understand this movement considering your total lack of refutation to the very valid points already made about the organisations website, its social media and now black ex professionals expressing their opposition. The forum is for discussing saints and football and taking the knee, black lives matter and what it stands for is currently a major topic and talking point within football thus it's highly relevant and not weird to discuss it in the slightest. You're a race-baiter because you've tried to dismiss opposing views by using what you assume to be someone's skin colour in a derogatory manner against them. Rather like Karl Henry, I support a non politically partisan organisation separate from this group that seeks to find commonalities between racial groups rather than dividing people down racial lines. Luckily I have only had the misfortune of meeting a small group of individuals like you in real life with racist views (they are most commonly found on social media platforms like twitter which I rarely use) and so thankfully I have little reason to get annoyed by provocative opinions like yours. Edited 30 June, 2020 by hypochondriac 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 1 minute ago, TWar said: How is the same not true about the poppy? One person to my knowledge has chosen not to conform for completely valid reasons and has had a torrent of abuse ever since. I assume you’re referring to McLean. Northern Ireland is always going to be a contentious issue and he can’t win there. Whatever he does will infuriate half of his home city and a fair few Brits. His situation is made worse by two issues. One being a game where he turned his back on a remembrance wreath, which goes beyond simple abstinence and is making an active gesture of disrespect. The other being the obvious hypocrisy of not being willing to commemorate fallen British soldiers but being quite happy to live here and get paid money with the Queen’s head on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 1 minute ago, iansums said: Oh dear, another little ego trip for the socialists! Do some research mate, then you will understand why some of us are against the organisation 'Black Lives Matter' whilst understanding and supporting the meaning of the words. Perhaps you should do some research because it seems odd that when a minority does something to attempt to gain some equality, there's always a right winger to shout "marxism!!!". You are against the organisation because you've found a snippet that justifies your dislike of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 14 minutes ago, TWar said: How is the same not true about the poppy? One person to my knowledge has chosen not to conform for completely valid reasons and has had a torrent of abuse ever since. Could be loads of people who tie the poppy to the British military, and all the atrocities carried out by it, and don't want to support that but are afraid of what the fans and tabloids will say about them. I don't think footballers should be forced to wear the poppy on their shirt if they don't want to and whilst I disagree with people who don't wear it, I absolutely oppose anyone receiving abuse for not doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWar Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said: I assume you’re referring to McLean. Northern Ireland is always going to be a contentious issue and he can’t win there. Whatever he does will infuriate half of his home city and a fair few Brits. His situation is made worse by two issues. One being a game where he turned his back on a remembrance wreath, which goes beyond simple abstinence and is making an active gesture of disrespect. The other being the obvious hypocrisy of not being willing to commemorate fallen British soldiers but being quite happy to live here and get paid money with the Queen’s head on it. It is not hypocrisy to live in a society when you disagree with aspects of it, it is reality. Everyone has to make do with the world they live in and do their best inside it. He doesn't owe this country or it's soldiers anything. He earns money like anyone else, he should not be forced to commemorate british soldiers, especially after the horrific things they did in Ireland. He should be within his rights to turn his back on a remembrance wreath, he is not employed to do otherwise and it isn't illegal so really what is the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said: Perhaps you should do some research because it seems odd that when a minority does something to attempt to gain some equality, there's always a right winger to shout "marxism!!!". You are against the organisation because you've found a snippet that justifies your dislike of it. A snippet? It's all over their official blue checked twitter comments, it's prominently displayed on their website under "What we believe", a gofundme page that has raised millions describes some of these aims, BLM UK gave us their views on Palestine and Israel earlier this week, one of their founders is a self-described Marxist, many of the slogans are prominently displayed at marches. It's a bit more of a snippet and it's not like you need to hunt very far for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 1 minute ago, hypochondriac said: A snippet? It's all over their official blue checked twitter comments, it's prominently displayed on their website under "What we believe", a gofundme page that has raised millions describes some of these aims, BLM UK gave us their views on Palestine and Israel earlier this week, one of their founders is a self-described Marxist, many of the slogans are prominently displayed at marches. It's a bit more of a snippet and it's not like you need to hunt very far for it. To most of the people that follow BLM it's about equality and gaining acknowledgement; you know most just see an organisation campaigning for their rights and go with it....maybe something like vote leave....that has very extremist right wing agenda's but most people that followed that didn't think much about those points and wrote them off as "negativity". Point is, you can't write off a movement like that simply as a bunch of left wing marxists because as I pointed out, that's always what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWar Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 6 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: No you've sneeringly made assumptions about those with differing views that they are old, insecure and white and you've now added limited worldview and privileged to the list which is why i described you as hateful. I would suggest it is you who does not fully understand this movement considering your total lack of refutation to the very valid points already made about the organisations website, its social media and now black ex professionals expressing their opposition. The forum is for discussing saints and football and taking the knee, black lives matter and what it stands for is currently a major topic and talking point within football thus it's highly relevant and not weird to discuss it in the slightest. You're a race-baiter because you've tried to dismiss opposing views by using what you assume to be someone's skin colour in a derogatory manner against them. Rather like Karl Henry, I support a non politically partisan organisation separate from this group that seeks to find commonalities between racial groups rather than dividing people down racial lines. Luckily I have only had the misfortune of meeting a small group of individuals like you in real life with racist views (they are most commonly found on social media platforms like twitter which I rarely use) and so thankfully I have little reason to get annoyed by provocative opinions like yours. Honestly it just sounds like you are getting a bit annoyed at it being pointed out white people have less experience and relevance to a conversation about racial discrimination than people of colour. Sometimes when it comes to things like this you just have to learn to listen to those who know better than you, and that is OK. It isn't hateful, I don't hate anyone, I just encourage people who are not in the effected group to talk less and listen more. I think this only offends some white people as they are used to being at the centre of any given conversation, which is part of their privilege and part of the reason why challenging your privilege is so jarring. But I do not hate you, I promise you that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansums Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 10 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said: Perhaps you should do some research because it seems odd that when a minority does something to attempt to gain some equality, there's always a right winger to shout "marxism!!!". You are against the organisation because you've found a snippet that justifies your dislike of it. Is Karl Henry a right-winger too? More of a central midfielder. BLM is a far left movement and for that reason I object to it, 'Kick it Out' and other anti-racism organisations I fully support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansums Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said: To most of the people that follow BLM it's about equality and gaining acknowledgement; you know most just see an organisation campaigning for their rights and go with it....maybe something like vote leave....that has very extremist right wing agenda's but most people that followed that didn't think much about those points and wrote them off as "negativity". Point is, you can't write off a movement like that simply as a bunch of left wing marxists because as I pointed out, that's always what happens. Yes, but that is the problem, people are following it, supporting it, without fully understanding what it stands for, that is the whole point, so glad you agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said: To most of the people that follow BLM it's about equality and gaining acknowledgement; you know most just see an organisation campaigning for their rights and go with it....maybe something like vote leave....that has very extremist right wing agenda's but most people that followed that didn't think much about those points and wrote them off as "negativity". Point is, you can't write off a movement like that simply as a bunch of left wing marxists because as I pointed out, that's always what happens. Even If the leader herself says she is though? https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/amp/ Edited 30 June, 2020 by Raging Bull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 The poppy is in danger of becoming just another meaningless trinket worn to show how righteous the wearer is. Players that actually served in the wars and lost friends and relatives never had them sawn into their kits, so I don’t know why modern players need to. I’d much rather the country looked after its veterans a bit better, than indulging in witch-hunt’s as to who does and doesn’t wear one. Why can’t football just get back to football, and cut out the gesture politics. You can’t go to a game now without a tribute, whether a minutes silence, applause, or the supporters clapping X on Y minute. Personally, I think we’re onto something with our All Saints day, unless you’re talking about a Ted or Lawrie, let’s leave it at that. A minutes silence for those who have passed during this virus the next time we’ve a full stadium is entirely appropriate, going down on one knee every fucking game, is not. Imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 4 minutes ago, Raging Bull said: Even If the leader herself says she is though? https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/amp/ Nigel Farage has attended quite a few far right rallies and was in Tulsa earlier....same same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansums Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 Just now, Hockey_saint said: Nigel Farage has attended quite a few far right rallies and was in Tulsa earlier....same same. Well that depends on your definition of far right, I think yours will differ to mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 8 minutes ago, TWar said: Honestly it just sounds like you are getting a bit annoyed at it being pointed out white people have less experience and relevance to a conversation about racial discrimination than people of colour. Sometimes when it comes to things like this you just have to learn to listen to those who know better than you, and that is OK. It isn't hateful, I don't hate anyone, I just encourage people who are not in the effected group to talk less and listen more. I think this only offends some white people as they are used to being at the centre of any given conversation, which is part of their privilege and part of the reason why challenging your privilege is so jarring. But I do not hate you, I promise you that. No its more about opinions being dismissed because of the perceived skin colour of the individuals saying it. I don't like racism however it manifests and that's one clear example. Also ignoring dissenting voices from black people as well as if their voices don't matter or are less important. Unfortunately it's very hateful to dismiss opinions of organisations with dodgy views because you think the person holding that view has white skin. The only think I'm offended by is being judged by my perceived skin colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 10 minutes ago, iansums said: Is Karl Henry a right-winger too? More of a central midfielder. BLM is a far left movement and for that reason I object to it, 'Kick it Out' and other anti-racism organisations I fully support. 100% agree. Kick it out in its current form have my absolute support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 11 minutes ago, TWar said: It is not hypocrisy to live in a society when you disagree with aspects of it, it is reality. Everyone has to make do with the world they live in and do their best inside it. He doesn't owe this country or it's soldiers anything. He earns money like anyone else, he should not be forced to commemorate british soldiers, especially after the horrific things they did in Ireland. He should be within his rights to turn his back on a remembrance wreath, he is not employed to do otherwise and it isn't illegal so really what is the issue? It’s not ‘an aspect’ though, he isn’t protesting council tax rises or increased rail fares. Without everything the poppy represents we wouldn’t exist as a free country, it’s fundamental to what he is able to do. He shouldn’t be forced to commemorate things I agree on that. He has the right to be a hypocrite but he has to accept the flak that comes with it. Turning his back on the wreath was a step to far. That would be like a player not only refusing to take a knee but standing with his back to his teammates whilst they do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 30 June, 2020 Share Posted 30 June, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said: Nigel Farage has attended quite a few far right rallies and was in Tulsa earlier....same same. Was Leave.EU on Premier league shirts, did premier league players indulge in a gesture of solidarity with Nigel every game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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