What Is Happening To Our Country?

[Osvaldorama]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

The "Nation's flag" is the Union flag, not the cross of St George.

I mean that’s quite obviously not true. But either way it doesn’t matter, most of the Labour and Green idiots see even the Union flag as some sort of hate symbol these days 😂

 

It’s the hypocrisy that infuriates me. Starmer made a huge issue out of bending the knee for George Floyd - a criminal. 
Yet an innocent person gets brutally murdered in this country, and out comes the “stop being divisive” bollocks. 
 

The liberal left can’t have it both ways. They caused the division by forcing everyone’s differences in our faces and weaponising identity politics. 

15 years ago none of this was an issue

Edited 2 hours ago by Osvaldorama

[badgerx16]

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Times radio asks reporter "Have you seen Tommy Robinson and have you seen any violence?" 

Setting their news agenda out in a sentence, there.

[Gloucester Saint]

23 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

The liberal left can’t have it both ways. They caused the division by forcing everyone’s differences in our faces and weaponising identity politics. 

15 years ago none of this was an issue

So say the Disability Discrimination Act, introduced under the Major government in 1994 and scooped up under the Equality Act 2010 by the coalition - is that identity politics?

How is that weaponised anyone in making it possible for very talented people in a wheelchair or a neurodiverse to enabled to make a good living with small-scale, low/no cost reasonable adjustments?

Or is that identity politics and the grievances some people feel are more to do with racial/ethnic identity or sexuality? 

[Osvaldorama]

8 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

So say the Disability Discrimination Act, introduced under the Major government in 1994 and scooped up under the Equality Act 2010 by the coalition - is that identity politics?

How is that weaponised anyone in making it possible for very talented people in a wheelchair or a neurodiverse to enabled to make a good living with small-scale, low/no cost reasonable adjustments?

Or is that identity politics and the grievances some people feel are more to do with racial/ethnic identity or sexuality? 

At risk of sounding like MLG that’s an absurd straw man. 
 

Common sense approaches to treating disabled people better is not at all the issue. 
 

What’s been happening is a torrent of anti-white, anti-British sentiment in the media to the extent our own national flag is seen as a hate symbol and our own police would rather let an innocent man die than challenge a criminal. 

[Gloucester Saint]

5 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

At risk of sounding like MLG that’s an absurd straw man. 
 

Common sense approaches to treating disabled people better is not at all the issue. 
 

What’s been happening is a torrent of anti-white, anti-British sentiment in the media to the extent our own national flag is seen as a hate symbol and our own police would rather let an innocent man die than challenge a criminal. 

It was an open question, trying to understand what people are referring to by identity politics because when the likes of Braverman spout off everyone under the sun gets pulled into it. Now we actually agree on the Nowak case as it happens, should never been handcuffed dying and the murderer is a vile disgrace claiming racism from a dying bloke when clearly lying and no facts established. A knife/sword that size is a dangerous and offensive weapon whatever the context is - religious or otherwise - and custody worthy of itself.

Hope his mother and brother receive hefty sentences now covering for him.

Edited 1 hour ago by Gloucester Saint

[aintforever]

7 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

and our own police would rather let an innocent man die than challenge a criminal. 

See that's just bollocks, the Policing was awful and they should be sacked but they didn't know he was innocent or that he was seen stabbed, let alone dying, until it was too late.

 

[Gloucester Saint]

4 minutes ago, aintforever said:

See that's just bollocks, the Policing was awful and they should be sacked but they didn't know he was innocent or that he was seen stabbed, let alone dying, until it was too late.

 

He’s got something of a point though, a lad is dying, nobody knows the facts and he’s been accused of racism without any foundation even at the time let alone in hindsight. Handcuffs shouldn’t have come out like that and the police need to reflect on that.

BTW, I agree with that poster on most football, not on most non-football but looking at the incident in isolation I can understand why there’s anger. It’ll be misused of course by certain politicians but the police didn’t cover themselves in glory that night and lessons should be learned. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Gloucester Saint

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, aintforever said:

See that's just bollocks, the Policing was awful and they should be sacked but they didn't know he was innocent or that he was seen stabbed, let alone dying, until it was too late.

 

It being too late is purely and entirely on the coppers.

 

[aintforever]

11 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

It being too late is purely and entirely on the coppers.

 

Yes of course, don’t think anyone is denying that. 

[egg]

38 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

At risk of sounding like MLG that’s an absurd straw man. 
 

Common sense approaches to treating disabled people better is not at all the issue. 
 

What’s been happening is a torrent of anti-white, anti-British sentiment in the media to the extent our own national flag is seen as a hate symbol and our own police would rather let an innocent man die than challenge a criminal. 

Oh come on, that's hyperbolic, and avoids any context. 

Our flag is not a hate symbol, but it's being used in many contexts to create division. That's undeniable. 

And you're better than saying that the police would "rather" see someone die than challenge them. The copper got it wrong, and had no idea the lad was dying.  

 

[egg]

38 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

It was an open question, trying to understand what people are referring to by identity politics because when the likes of Braverman spout off everyone under the sun gets pulled into it. Now we actually agree on the Nowak case as it happens, should never been handcuffed dying and the murderer is a vile disgrace claiming racism from a dying bloke when clearly lying and no facts established. A knife/sword that size is a dangerous and offensive weapon whatever the context is - religious or otherwise - and custody worthy of itself.

Hope his mother and brother receive hefty sentences now covering for him.

Yep, lots needs to be learnt from this. Allegations of racism mustn't be dismissed out of hand but neither must they be accepted at face value. And the carrying of any weapon in a public place must be outlawed, just no need for it. 

[Gloucester Saint]

8 minutes ago, egg said:

Oh come on, that's hyperbolic, and avoids any context. 

Our flag is not a hate symbol, but it's being used in many contexts to create division. That's undeniable. 

And you're better than saying that the police would "rather" see someone die than challenge them. The copper got it wrong, and had no idea the lad was dying.  

 

It’s being used a hate-symbol by the Raise the Colours (it has to be said for balance a very small minority albeit vvocal and visible) lot https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx21ev78ng4o

https://www.birminghamdispatch.co.uk/raise-the-colours-founder-charged-with-murder/

Of itself, someone having a St George’s or Union Jack on a flagpole in their front garden is not racist nor wrong.

But defending them illegally put up on street lamps with extreme violence is.

Edited 52 minutes ago by Gloucester Saint

[egg]

10 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

It’s being used a hate-symbol by the Raise the Colours (it has to be said for balance a very small minority albeit vvocal and visible) lot https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx21ev78ng4o

https://www.birminghamdispatch.co.uk/raise-the-colours-founder-charged-with-murder/

Of itself, someone having a St George’s or Union Jack on a flagpole in their front garden is not racist nor wrong.

But defending them illegally put up on street lamps with extreme violence is.

People popping a flag on their house is altogether different than sticking them on lamp post after lamp post, painting a roundabout or a crossing. There's no credible reason to do that other than create division imo. What explanation are you supposed to give your kids or grandkids for it? 

[Osvaldorama]

48 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

He’s got something of a point though, a lad is dying, nobody knows the facts and he’s been accused of racism without any foundation even at the time let alone in hindsight. Handcuffs shouldn’t have come out like that and the police need to reflect on that.

BTW, I agree with that poster on most football, not on most non-football but looking at the incident in isolation I can understand why there’s anger. It’ll be misused of course by certain politicians but the police didn’t cover themselves in glory that night and lessons should be learned. 

I back the officers on the street in most cases. It’s a difficult job. 
 

But the anger comes because we feel like second class citizens in our own country. And this incident has just shown it yet again. Southport and now this is just too much tbh.

When you also factor in the money spent on propping up these leftist woke ideas:

 

[Osvaldorama]

1 minute ago, egg said:

People popping a flag on their house is altogether different than sticking them on lamp post after lamp post, painting a roundabout or a crossing. There's no credible reason to do that other than create division imo. What explanation are you supposed to give your kids or grandkids for it? 

The question you should be asking is;

why do people feel strongly enough to do that? 
 

It’s because the working class is being ignored because Starmer prefers to sucker up to the woke globalist corporations 

[Gloucester Saint]

Just now, Osvaldorama said:

I back the officers on the street in most cases. It’s a difficult job. 
 

But the anger comes because we feel like second class citizens in our own country. And this incident has just shown it yet again. Southport and now this is just too much tbh.

When you also factor in the money spent on propping up these leftist woke ideas:

 

Trouble is though, if you are say a Chief Inspector in the Bradford area and you’ve got murders/sexual assaults to solve, being able to have a dialogue with different communities is more likely to solve those serious offences and get more co-operation with people who look like them. And it’s not that long since BBC were undercover in Hendon with trainees making Hitler salutes. Let alone the Stephen Lawrence debacle.

We can debate the volume and necessity of the posts (I think it’s slightly too many which could be put into the frontline) but the police racism and corruption of the 1970s, 80s and 90s led to this point. Sadly it’s still going on today https://news.sky.com/story/two-metropolitan-police-officers-guilty-of-gross-misconduct-over-stop-and-search-of-team-gb-athlete-and-her-partner-12992204

[egg]

7 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

The question you should be asking is;

why do people feel strongly enough to do that? 
 

It’s because the working class is being ignored because Starmer prefers to sucker up to the woke globalist corporations 

Please explain the link between between paragraphs 2 and 3,  what people think it'll achieve that's useful, and how you feel division helps a divided society. 

[Gloucester Saint]

17 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

The question you should be asking is;

why do people feel strongly enough to do that? 
 

It’s because the working class is being ignored because Starmer prefers to sucker up to the woke globalist corporations 

They’re doing it at an underlying level because their real incomes haven’t gone up since the 2008 crisis, and their high streets are going to rats (literally in parts of the Midlands) because of online shopping and loss of key public services with austerity. They’re getting stirred up in the foreground by culture war rhetoric on social media but the level of unrest around is only seen (Toxteth, Broadwater Farm, Blackbird Leyes) when the economy is in the crapper.

They bought a load of BS about Sunlit Uplands and fictional red buses in 2016 when illegal immigration then soared and the boats are a lot more visible than refugees suffocating in lorries (which took off during the pandemic). 

They weren’t doing it mid-late 80s and pre-2008 because the standard of living was rising. But the examples above and the recent examples are during sharp recessions or times of low/no growth. 

Edited 20 minutes ago by Gloucester Saint

[badgerx16]

15 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

It’s because the working class is being ignored because Starmer prefers to sucker up to the woke globalist corporations 

The power of Social Media summed up in one sentence.

[benjii]

17 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

The question you should be asking is;

why do people feel strongly enough to do that? 
 

It’s because the working class is being ignored because Starmer prefers to sucker up to the woke globalist corporations 

You think Farage and Lowe give a shiny shit about the working class?

[Gloucester Saint]

17 minutes ago, benjii said:

You think Farage and Lowe give a shiny shit about the working class?

Lowe lives in Withington, circa 20 minutes from here, Radley College educated. Barton, Tredworth, Westgate or Springbank (worse than anything in Gloucester) it is not. 

Like Farage, has also made a lot of money at the elite banks and hedge funds.

Nothing wrong with that but men of the working class they are certainly not. 

Edited 2 minutes ago by Gloucester Saint
Was being unduly harsh on Tuffley

[Osvaldorama]

7 minutes ago, benjii said:

You think Farage and Lowe give a shiny shit about the working class?

Not Farage. He’s controlled opposition. 

Lowe definitely does. He’s been extremely vocal in wanting lower taxes for workers, farmers and hospitality. 

He’s put his own money in to expose the rape gang cover up. (Another thing that Starmer tried to hide from us all) 
 

Hate him all you want, but objectively, he has done more for this country already than any MP I can think of and he’s only been an MP for a little while. 
 

I agree with Gloucester Saint above that a huge % of the division and issues are caused because we now live in a failing country. 

Why is the country failing? 

- Inflation 

- Currency Debasement/Money Printing

- Successive governments sold off our assets and manufacturing 

- Net zero has driven up energy prices, which has driven up the price of everything else  

All of the above are being made way worse by Labour.

[egg]

6 minutes ago, benjii said:

You think Farage and Lowe give a shiny shit about the working class?

Indeed. Farage and Lowe. The working class heros, or self-serving sabre rattlers. Take your pick. 

[Osvaldorama]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

Indeed. Farage and Lowe. The working class heros, or self-serving sabre rattlers. Take your pick. 

Im not sure why you are lumping them together. 
 

Farage tried to have Lowe arrested for no reason. 

[egg]

6 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Not Farage. He’s controlled opposition. 

Lowe definitely does. He’s been extremely vocal in wanting lower taxes for workers, farmers and hospitality. 

He’s put his own money in to expose the rape gang cover up. (Another thing that Starmer tried to hide from us all) 

Hate him all you want, but objectively, he has done more for this country already than any MP I can think of and he’s only been an MP for a little while. 

I agree with Gloucester Saint above that a huge % of the division and issues are caused because we now live in a failing country. 

Why is the country failing? 

- Inflation 

- Currency Debasement/Money Printing

- Successive governments sold off our assets and manufacturing 

- Net zero has driven up energy prices, which has driven up the price of everything else  

All of the above are being made way worse by Labour.

No disrespect, but you need to focus on facts not opinion. 

Why is the country failing? 

- Inflation 

Not increased under labour

- Currency Debasement/Money Printing

Not increased under labour 

- Successive governments sold off our assets and manufacturing 

Not happened under labour 

- Net zero has driven up energy prices, which has driven up the price of everything else  

Have you been following geopolitics recently? But yep, net zero is nuts and hasn't helped. 

All of the above are being made way worse by Labour

Nonsense - see above

[egg]

3 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Im not sure why you are lumping them together. 
 

Farage tried to have Lowe arrested for no reason. 

The point remains, neither are the working class hero. They both want the top job, have tuned into populist policies based around similar themes.