What Is Happening To Our Country?

[Osvaldorama]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

The "Nation's flag" is the Union flag, not the cross of St George.

I mean that’s quite obviously not true. But either way it doesn’t matter, most of the Labour and Green idiots see even the Union flag as some sort of hate symbol these days 😂

 

It’s the hypocrisy that infuriates me. Starmer made a huge issue out of bending the knee for George Floyd - a criminal. 
Yet an innocent person gets brutally murdered in this country, and out comes the “stop being divisive” bollocks. 
 

The liberal left can’t have it both ways. They caused the division by forcing everyone’s differences in our faces and weaponising identity politics. 

15 years ago none of this was an issue

Edited 5 hours ago by Osvaldorama

[badgerx16]

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Times radio asks reporter "Have you seen Tommy Robinson and have you seen any violence?" 

Setting their news agenda out in a sentence, there.

[Gloucester Saint]

23 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

The liberal left can’t have it both ways. They caused the division by forcing everyone’s differences in our faces and weaponising identity politics. 

15 years ago none of this was an issue

So say the Disability Discrimination Act, introduced under the Major government in 1994 and scooped up under the Equality Act 2010 by the coalition - is that identity politics?

How is that weaponised anyone in making it possible for very talented people in a wheelchair or a neurodiverse to enabled to make a good living with small-scale, low/no cost reasonable adjustments?

Or is that identity politics and the grievances some people feel are more to do with racial/ethnic identity or sexuality? 

[Osvaldorama]

8 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

So say the Disability Discrimination Act, introduced under the Major government in 1994 and scooped up under the Equality Act 2010 by the coalition - is that identity politics?

How is that weaponised anyone in making it possible for very talented people in a wheelchair or a neurodiverse to enabled to make a good living with small-scale, low/no cost reasonable adjustments?

Or is that identity politics and the grievances some people feel are more to do with racial/ethnic identity or sexuality? 

At risk of sounding like MLG that’s an absurd straw man. 
 

Common sense approaches to treating disabled people better is not at all the issue. 
 

What’s been happening is a torrent of anti-white, anti-British sentiment in the media to the extent our own national flag is seen as a hate symbol and our own police would rather let an innocent man die than challenge a criminal. 

[Gloucester Saint]

5 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

At risk of sounding like MLG that’s an absurd straw man. 
 

Common sense approaches to treating disabled people better is not at all the issue. 
 

What’s been happening is a torrent of anti-white, anti-British sentiment in the media to the extent our own national flag is seen as a hate symbol and our own police would rather let an innocent man die than challenge a criminal. 

It was an open question, trying to understand what people are referring to by identity politics because when the likes of Braverman spout off everyone under the sun gets pulled into it. Now we actually agree on the Nowak case as it happens, should never been handcuffed dying and the murderer is a vile disgrace claiming racism from a dying bloke when clearly lying and no facts established. A knife/sword that size is a dangerous and offensive weapon whatever the context is - religious or otherwise - and custody worthy of itself.

Hope his mother and brother receive hefty sentences now covering for him.

Edited 4 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[aintforever]

7 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

and our own police would rather let an innocent man die than challenge a criminal. 

See that's just bollocks, the Policing was awful and they should be sacked but they didn't know he was innocent or that he was seen stabbed, let alone dying, until it was too late.

 

[Gloucester Saint]

4 minutes ago, aintforever said:

See that's just bollocks, the Policing was awful and they should be sacked but they didn't know he was innocent or that he was seen stabbed, let alone dying, until it was too late.

 

He’s got something of a point though, a lad is dying, nobody knows the facts and he’s been accused of racism without any foundation even at the time let alone in hindsight. Handcuffs shouldn’t have come out like that and the police need to reflect on that.

BTW, I agree with that poster on most football, not on most non-football but looking at the incident in isolation I can understand why there’s anger. It’ll be misused of course by certain politicians but the police didn’t cover themselves in glory that night and lessons should be learned. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, aintforever said:

See that's just bollocks, the Policing was awful and they should be sacked but they didn't know he was innocent or that he was seen stabbed, let alone dying, until it was too late.

 

It being too late is purely and entirely on the coppers.

 

[aintforever]

11 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

It being too late is purely and entirely on the coppers.

 

Yes of course, don’t think anyone is denying that. 

[egg]

38 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

At risk of sounding like MLG that’s an absurd straw man. 
 

Common sense approaches to treating disabled people better is not at all the issue. 
 

What’s been happening is a torrent of anti-white, anti-British sentiment in the media to the extent our own national flag is seen as a hate symbol and our own police would rather let an innocent man die than challenge a criminal. 

Oh come on, that's hyperbolic, and avoids any context. 

Our flag is not a hate symbol, but it's being used in many contexts to create division. That's undeniable. 

And you're better than saying that the police would "rather" see someone die than challenge them. The copper got it wrong, and had no idea the lad was dying.  

 

[egg]

38 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

It was an open question, trying to understand what people are referring to by identity politics because when the likes of Braverman spout off everyone under the sun gets pulled into it. Now we actually agree on the Nowak case as it happens, should never been handcuffed dying and the murderer is a vile disgrace claiming racism from a dying bloke when clearly lying and no facts established. A knife/sword that size is a dangerous and offensive weapon whatever the context is - religious or otherwise - and custody worthy of itself.

Hope his mother and brother receive hefty sentences now covering for him.

Yep, lots needs to be learnt from this. Allegations of racism mustn't be dismissed out of hand but neither must they be accepted at face value. And the carrying of any weapon in a public place must be outlawed, just no need for it. 

[Gloucester Saint]

8 minutes ago, egg said:

Oh come on, that's hyperbolic, and avoids any context. 

Our flag is not a hate symbol, but it's being used in many contexts to create division. That's undeniable. 

And you're better than saying that the police would "rather" see someone die than challenge them. The copper got it wrong, and had no idea the lad was dying.  

 

It’s being used a hate-symbol by the Raise the Colours (it has to be said for balance a very small minority albeit vvocal and visible) lot https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx21ev78ng4o

https://www.birminghamdispatch.co.uk/raise-the-colours-founder-charged-with-murder/

Of itself, someone having a St George’s or Union Jack on a flagpole in their front garden is not racist nor wrong.

But defending them illegally put up on street lamps with extreme violence is.

Edited 3 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[egg]

10 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

It’s being used a hate-symbol by the Raise the Colours (it has to be said for balance a very small minority albeit vvocal and visible) lot https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx21ev78ng4o

https://www.birminghamdispatch.co.uk/raise-the-colours-founder-charged-with-murder/

Of itself, someone having a St George’s or Union Jack on a flagpole in their front garden is not racist nor wrong.

But defending them illegally put up on street lamps with extreme violence is.

People popping a flag on their house is altogether different than sticking them on lamp post after lamp post, painting a roundabout or a crossing. There's no credible reason to do that other than create division imo. What explanation are you supposed to give your kids or grandkids for it? 

[Osvaldorama]

48 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

He’s got something of a point though, a lad is dying, nobody knows the facts and he’s been accused of racism without any foundation even at the time let alone in hindsight. Handcuffs shouldn’t have come out like that and the police need to reflect on that.

BTW, I agree with that poster on most football, not on most non-football but looking at the incident in isolation I can understand why there’s anger. It’ll be misused of course by certain politicians but the police didn’t cover themselves in glory that night and lessons should be learned. 

I back the officers on the street in most cases. It’s a difficult job. 
 

But the anger comes because we feel like second class citizens in our own country. And this incident has just shown it yet again. Southport and now this is just too much tbh.

When you also factor in the money spent on propping up these leftist woke ideas:

 

[Osvaldorama]

1 minute ago, egg said:

People popping a flag on their house is altogether different than sticking them on lamp post after lamp post, painting a roundabout or a crossing. There's no credible reason to do that other than create division imo. What explanation are you supposed to give your kids or grandkids for it? 

The question you should be asking is;

why do people feel strongly enough to do that? 
 

It’s because the working class is being ignored because Starmer prefers to sucker up to the woke globalist corporations 

[Gloucester Saint]

Just now, Osvaldorama said:

I back the officers on the street in most cases. It’s a difficult job. 
 

But the anger comes because we feel like second class citizens in our own country. And this incident has just shown it yet again. Southport and now this is just too much tbh.

When you also factor in the money spent on propping up these leftist woke ideas:

 

Trouble is though, if you are say a Chief Inspector in the Bradford area and you’ve got murders/sexual assaults to solve, being able to have a dialogue with different communities is more likely to solve those serious offences and get more co-operation with people who look like them. And it’s not that long since BBC were undercover in Hendon with trainees making Hitler salutes. Let alone the Stephen Lawrence debacle.

We can debate the volume and necessity of the posts (I think it’s slightly too many which could be put into the frontline) but the police racism and corruption of the 1970s, 80s and 90s led to this point. Sadly it’s still going on today https://news.sky.com/story/two-metropolitan-police-officers-guilty-of-gross-misconduct-over-stop-and-search-of-team-gb-athlete-and-her-partner-12992204

[egg]

7 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

The question you should be asking is;

why do people feel strongly enough to do that? 
 

It’s because the working class is being ignored because Starmer prefers to sucker up to the woke globalist corporations 

Please explain the link between between paragraphs 2 and 3,  what people think it'll achieve that's useful, and how you feel division helps a divided society. 

[Gloucester Saint]

17 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

The question you should be asking is;

why do people feel strongly enough to do that? 
 

It’s because the working class is being ignored because Starmer prefers to sucker up to the woke globalist corporations 

They’re doing it at an underlying level because their real incomes haven’t gone up since the 2008 crisis, and their high streets are going to rats (literally in parts of the Midlands) because of online shopping and loss of key public services with austerity. They’re getting stirred up in the foreground by culture war rhetoric on social media but the level of unrest around is only seen (Toxteth, Broadwater Farm, Blackbird Leyes) when the economy is in the crapper.

They bought a load of BS about Sunlit Uplands and fictional red buses in 2016 when illegal immigration then soared and the boats are a lot more visible than refugees suffocating in lorries (which took off during the pandemic). 

They weren’t doing it mid-late 80s and pre-2008 because the standard of living was rising. But the examples above and the recent examples are during sharp recessions or times of low/no growth. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[badgerx16]

15 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

It’s because the working class is being ignored because Starmer prefers to sucker up to the woke globalist corporations 

The power of Social Media summed up in one sentence.

[benjii]

17 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

The question you should be asking is;

why do people feel strongly enough to do that? 
 

It’s because the working class is being ignored because Starmer prefers to sucker up to the woke globalist corporations 

You think Farage and Lowe give a shiny shit about the working class?

[Gloucester Saint]

17 minutes ago, benjii said:

You think Farage and Lowe give a shiny shit about the working class?

Lowe lives in Withington, circa 20 minutes from here, Radley College educated. Barton, Tredworth, Westgate or Springbank (worse than anything in Gloucester) it is not. 

Like Farage, has also made a lot of money at the elite banks and hedge funds.

Nothing wrong with that but men of the working class they are certainly not. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Gloucester Saint
Was being unduly harsh on Tuffley

[Osvaldorama]

7 minutes ago, benjii said:

You think Farage and Lowe give a shiny shit about the working class?

Not Farage. He’s controlled opposition. 

Lowe definitely does. He’s been extremely vocal in wanting lower taxes for workers, farmers and hospitality. 

He’s put his own money in to expose the rape gang cover up. (Another thing that Starmer tried to hide from us all) 
 

Hate him all you want, but objectively, he has done more for this country already than any MP I can think of and he’s only been an MP for a little while. 
 

I agree with Gloucester Saint above that a huge % of the division and issues are caused because we now live in a failing country. 

Why is the country failing? 

- Inflation 

- Currency Debasement/Money Printing

- Successive governments sold off our assets and manufacturing 

- Net zero has driven up energy prices, which has driven up the price of everything else  

All of the above are being made way worse by Labour.

[egg]

6 minutes ago, benjii said:

You think Farage and Lowe give a shiny shit about the working class?

Indeed. Farage and Lowe. The working class heros, or self-serving sabre rattlers. Take your pick. 

[Osvaldorama]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

Indeed. Farage and Lowe. The working class heros, or self-serving sabre rattlers. Take your pick. 

Im not sure why you are lumping them together. 
 

Farage tried to have Lowe arrested for no reason. 

[egg]

6 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Not Farage. He’s controlled opposition. 

Lowe definitely does. He’s been extremely vocal in wanting lower taxes for workers, farmers and hospitality. 

He’s put his own money in to expose the rape gang cover up. (Another thing that Starmer tried to hide from us all) 

Hate him all you want, but objectively, he has done more for this country already than any MP I can think of and he’s only been an MP for a little while. 

I agree with Gloucester Saint above that a huge % of the division and issues are caused because we now live in a failing country. 

Why is the country failing? 

- Inflation 

- Currency Debasement/Money Printing

- Successive governments sold off our assets and manufacturing 

- Net zero has driven up energy prices, which has driven up the price of everything else  

All of the above are being made way worse by Labour.

No disrespect, but you need to focus on facts not opinion. 

Why is the country failing? 

- Inflation 

Not increased under labour

- Currency Debasement/Money Printing

Not increased under labour 

- Successive governments sold off our assets and manufacturing 

Not happened under labour 

- Net zero has driven up energy prices, which has driven up the price of everything else  

Have you been following geopolitics recently? But yep, net zero is nuts and hasn't helped. 

All of the above are being made way worse by Labour

Nonsense - see above

[egg]

3 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Im not sure why you are lumping them together. 
 

Farage tried to have Lowe arrested for no reason. 

The point remains, neither are the working class hero. They both want the top job, have tuned into populist policies based around similar themes. 

[Turkish]

Looks like it’s gone a bit crazy in Southampton tonight 😳😳

[Osvaldorama]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

No disrespect, but you need to focus on facts not opinion. 

Why is the country failing? 

- Inflation 

Not increased under labour

- Currency Debasement/Money Printing

Not increased under labour 

- Successive governments sold off our assets and manufacturing 

Not happened under labour 

- Net zero has driven up energy prices, which has driven up the price of everything else  

Have you been following geopolitics recently? But yep, net zero is nuts and hasn't helped. 

All of the above are being made way worse by Labour

Nonsense - see above

You just writing in bold doesn’t make what you’re saying true. 
 

Inflation and currency debasement absolutely are expanding under Labour. Our benefits bill just exceeded the amount the government earns in taxes. 
 

How do you think they will pay the bill, with no money to pay it?… they’ll print money. 

[pingpong]

44 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

I back the officers on the street in most cases. It’s a difficult job. 
 

But the anger comes because we feel like second class citizens in our own country. And this incident has just shown it yet again. Southport and now this is just too much tbh.

When you also factor in the money spent on propping up these leftist woke ideas:

 

So about 0.1% of their budget.  Incredible the impact people think that 0.1% of their budget can have on literally everything through police do.

[Osvaldorama]

Protestors all took the knee and asked the Police to do the same for Henry Novak as they did for George Floyd

The police refused. 

Surely even the naive Labour voters can see why huge swathes of the country are annoyed at the double standards? 

Edited 2 hours ago by Osvaldorama

[The Kraken]

6 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Protestors all took the knee and asked the Police to do the same for Henry Novak as they did for George Floyd

The police refused. 

Surely even the naive Labour voters can see why huge swathes of the country are annoyed at the double standards? 

Surprised you’re not out with the current mob luzzing wheelie bins at the police down St Denys, fella. Put the keyboard down and get out there! Your lot are waiting for you.

Tell the ghetto bird to turn the noise in though, while you’re there. It’s getting a bit much now.

Edited 2 hours ago by The Kraken

[Farmer Saint]

11 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

If this was a brown skinned man in Harry’s position, half of the county would be on fire right now.

Yeah, good call...

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DZGHIvRxnUp/?igsh=MWp6c3p6c2g2MWpsag==

Probably protesting about us keeping Tonda judging by some of the pussies on this forum.

 

[AlexLaw76]

Scenes at Southampton Cop Shop

[Osvaldorama]

7 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Surprised you’re not out with the current mob luzzing wheelie bins at the police down St Denys, fella. Put the keyboard down and get out there! Your lot are waiting for you.

Tell the ghetto bird to turn the noise in though, while you’re there. It’s getting a bit much now.

The protests are extremely mild compared to what is morally and politically justified for this abhorrent situation.

 

The killers family are still walking around, free. The fact you aren’t more annoyed is the issue, not the protestors. 
 

Edited 2 hours ago by Osvaldorama

[The Kraken]

2 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

The protests are extremely mild compared to what is morally and politically justified for this abhorrent situation.

The killers family are still walking around, free. The fact you aren’t more annoyed is the issue, not the protestors. 
 

Get yourself down there fella. Moral and justified protest, you give it some.

I know it’s a binary world, but it’s possible to be annoyed at the system and more the perps at the same time. But that’s a bit too simple I guess. 

[benjii]

3 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

The protests are extremely mild compared to what is morally and politically justified for this abhorrent situation.

 

The killers family are still walking around, free. The fact you aren’t more annoyed is the issue, not the protestors. 
 

The killer is in prison, and I think three members of his family have been arrested?

 

[egg]

24 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

You just writing in bold doesn’t make what you’re saying true. 
 

Inflation and currency debasement absolutely are expanding under Labour. Our benefits bill just exceeded the amount the government earns in taxes. 
 

How do you think they will pay the bill, with no money to pay it?… they’ll print money. 

I wrote in bold to differentiate between your text and mine. 

You said those 4 things have got worse under labours policies. None are, hence my reference to fact checking. 

You've added benefits in - that wasn't one of your points. 

How about net migration? 

[egg]

21 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Protestors all took the knee and asked the Police to do the same for Henry Novak as they did for George Floyd

The police refused. 

Surely even the naive Labour voters can see why huge swathes of the country are annoyed at the double standards? 

I'm not sure you'll find one on here mate. 

[Gloucester Saint]

16 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Scenes at Southampton Cop Shop

Bet a certain poster is having a right old series of wanks at the presence of Tommy in Southampton. Kleenex supplies are low.

Robinson and Laurence Fox are revolting cunts though tbf, especially after Mr Nowak asked for his son’s memory not be to used to stir up further hatred and violence. Says everything that a minute’s silence couldn’t even be observed before trouble erupted.

Hants Police have shat the bed, and seriously fucked up. But Robinson and Fox don’t give a shit about the murdered young man. It’s all about their sick agenda. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[The Kraken]

Just now, egg said:

I'm not sure you'll find one on here mate. 

Correct. But every angry man needs a bogeyman to rail against.

[benjii]

There are plenty of things for people to be annoyed about but most of those have far deeper roots than the latest Labour government. That's not to say they have done a great job, necessarily, but the hate towards Starmer is just reflective of people swallowing absolute shite on Twitter and GB News etc.

[Osvaldorama]

Just now, egg said:

I wrote in bold to differentiate between your text and mine. 

You said those 4 things have got worse under labours policies. None are, hence my reference to fact checking. 

You've added benefits in - that wasn't one of your points. 

How about net migration? 

All of those things are linked. They are all getting worse. A fabricated £22bn black hole, taxes going up, everyone struggling, etc. it’s all linked to broken money. The currency is being debased due to money printing, which causes inflation, which leads to these things. 
 

It’s so so difficult to run a successful business with their tax raises and the price rises that their stupid policies are causing.
It takes a while for the effects of these things to play out; but as bad as the Tories were, Labour are absolutely worse for the country so far. 

But business owners are packing up and leaving, investors are refusing to invest. Youth unemployment is rising and has a long way to run 

Net migration is horrific, it seems to be slowing this year to be fair to them, but still way too high. 

[egg]

11 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

The protests are extremely mild compared to what is morally and politically justified for this abhorrent situation.

 

The killers family are still walking around, free. The fact you aren’t more annoyed is the issue, not the protestors. 
 

Jesus wept. 

You don't arrest/deport the family of criminals, even if they're brown. 

[Gloucester Saint]

2 minutes ago, benjii said:

There are plenty of things for people to be annoyed about but most of those have far deeper roots than the latest Labour government. That's not to say they have done a great job, necessarily, but the hate towards Starmer is just reflective of people swallowing absolute shite on Twitter and GB News etc.

Tabloids have never forgiven him for prosecuting the hacking and Milly Dowler scandals, Coulson going to jail and Mail losing tens of millions defending court cases for its criminal behaviour. 

He’s clearly crap as PM but the reactions from the newspapers is shite.

Edited 2 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[egg]

1 minute ago, Osvaldorama said:

All of those things are linked. They are all getting worse. A fabricated £22bn black hole, taxes going up, everyone struggling, etc. it’s all linked to broken money. The currency is being debased due to money printing, which causes inflation, which leads to these things. 
 

It’s so so difficult to run a successful business with their tax raises and the price rises that their stupid policies are causing.
It takes a while for the effects of these things to play out; but as bad as the Tories were, Labour are absolutely worse for the country so far. 

But business owners are packing up and leaving, investors are refusing to invest. Youth unemployment is rising and has a long way to run 

Net migration is horrific, it seems to be slowing this year to be fair to them, but still way too high. 

You highlighted 4 things that you said are getting worse due to labour policies. None are. I'm not going to widen a debate with you when you make stuff up and can't acknowledge being wrong. 

[Osvaldorama]

4 minutes ago, benjii said:

There are plenty of things for people to be annoyed about but most of those have far deeper roots than the latest Labour government. That's not to say they have done a great job, necessarily, but the hate towards Starmer is just reflective of people swallowing absolute shite on Twitter and GB News etc.

I hand on heart don’t see how anyone can say that. 
 

His handling of Southport made me viscerally hate him in a way I’ve never hated any other politician. Nothing to do with GB News. 

[Osvaldorama]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

You highlighted 4 things that you said are getting worse due to labour policies. None are. I'm not going to widen a debate with you when you make stuff up and can't acknowledge being wrong. 

They are, you just don’t understand how the economy and financial system work   
 

Look at the bond yields. This is an objective way to measure what the global market thinks is going to happen. 

What is it saying?

 

Yields are spiking because everyone knows inflation (stagflation) is going on 

Edited 2 hours ago by Osvaldorama

[Gloucester Saint]

Actually, where is Soggy? Haven’t seen him for a few days.

Not going to pop up on ITV News lobbing a wheely bin at Laurence Fox is he?

[badgerx16]

33 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Surely even the naive Labour voters can see why huge swathes of the country are annoyed at the double standards? 

Surely even naive Reform/Restore voters can see they are being taken as fools ?