Israel

[egg]

1 hour ago, benjii said:

It doesn't hurt at all. Like I said, we have to see what actually happens before we overdo it, but well done to him if he's actually achieved something positive for once in his life.

Yep. Nothings been achieved yet - the IDF have hit with airstrikes since the ceasefire was ratified, and separately are still attacking the west bank. If Israel won't stop, they can't stay stopped. 

[AlexLaw76]

33 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep. Nothings been achieved yet - the IDF have hit with airstrikes since the ceasefire was ratified, and separately are still attacking the west bank. If Israel won't stop, they can't stay stopped. 

Nothing achieved? The fact we are where we are is an achievement in itself, given Hamas themselves have said it’s over. 
This is pretty remarkable given every left-leaning politician and media outlet framed Trump as the next Satan.

There is no doubt skirmishes will continue, as they have in pretty much every single hot war in history immediately after a framework for a ceasefire etc has just been signed/agreed. I am sure if you scrolled back a few pages this very peace deal was knocked back because… Trump.

Trump is clearly a massive twat, but the derangement people have with him is weird, the running commentary on all things USA is weird.
 

 He has done more to end this and exchange hostages/prisoners than the gesture politics France, UK and the likes of Canada has done combined. No doubt Trump will commit astronomical amount of funds and resources into rebuilding the area, whilst being slated for it and those slating it offer almost nothing in comparison other than prayers and thoughts (and more protests)

[rallyboy]

Did someone order a word salad?

[tdmickey3]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Nothing achieved? The fact we are where we are is an achievement in itself, given Hamas themselves have said it’s over. 
This is pretty remarkable given every left-leaning politician and media outlet framed Trump as the next Satan.

There is no doubt skirmishes will continue, as they have in pretty much every single hot war in history immediately after a framework for a ceasefire etc has just been signed/agreed. I am sure if you scrolled back a few pages this very peace deal was knocked back because… Trump.

Trump is clearly a massive twat, but the derangement people have with him is weird, the running commentary on all things USA is weird.
 

 He has done more to end this and exchange hostages/prisoners than the gesture politics France, UK and the likes of Canada has done combined. No doubt Trump will commit astronomical amount of funds and resources into rebuilding the area, whilst being slated for it and those slating it offer almost nothing in comparison other than prayers and thoughts (and more protests)

Well done to all of the negotiators, Trump deserves credit but he was not the only one involved ,but its not over yet

Edited 9 hours ago by tdmickey3

[egg]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Nothing achieved? The fact we are where we are is an achievement in itself, given Hamas themselves have said it’s over. 
This is pretty remarkable given every left-leaning politician and media outlet framed Trump as the next Satan.

There is no doubt skirmishes will continue, as they have in pretty much every single hot war in history immediately after a framework for a ceasefire etc has just been signed/agreed. I am sure if you scrolled back a few pages this very peace deal was knocked back because… Trump.

Trump is clearly a massive twat, but the derangement people have with him is weird, the running commentary on all things USA is weird.
 

 He has done more to end this and exchange hostages/prisoners than the gesture politics France, UK and the likes of Canada has done combined. No doubt Trump will commit astronomical amount of funds and resources into rebuilding the area, whilst being slated for it and those slating it offer almost nothing in comparison other than prayers and thoughts (and more protests)

Until Israel stops smashing up Gaza, nothing has been achieved. There then needs to be a release of the Israeli and Palestinian captives. Then something, albeit just a start, will have been achieved. 

Promises, agreements, gestures is this situation are little more than noise. 

As for Trump, let's see this end, proper peace break out and be sustained, and understand Trump's part in it. Until then, I'll save my clapping for the fool. 

Edited 9 hours ago by egg

[hypochondriac]

51 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Well done to all of the negotiators, Trump deserves credit but he was not the only one involved ,but its not over yet

He was the most important person involved though clearly. Even if you hate Trump it's clear that without his involvement this wouldn't be happening. Let's just hope the hostages are actually released in a few days then that's something to celebrate.

[badgerx16]

Seeing as nominations for the Nobel Peace Prize closed in January, it is unlikely Donnie was on the list.

Edited 8 hours ago by badgerx16

[tdmickey3]

27 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

He was the most important person involved though clearly. Even if you hate Trump it's clear that without his involvement this wouldn't be happening. Let's just hope the hostages are actually released in a few days then that's something to celebrate.

Even if you love Trump, clearly the most important people were those agreeing and it would not be happening without them but yes, lets hope all is well and the hostage release goes ahead

[hypochondriac]

18 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Even if you love Trump, clearly the most important people were those agreeing and it would not be happening without them but yes, lets hope all is well and the hostage release goes ahead

Lol. Just admit that someone you hate might have done something positive. I despise everything about Blair but if he has assisted with this then he deserves his share of the credit too.

[east-stand-nic]

26 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Even if you love Trump, clearly the most important people were those agreeing and it would not be happening without them but yes, lets hope all is well and the hostage release goes ahead

TDS is strong in this one. What a childish view of the world you have. 

[badgerx16]

18 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

What a childish view of the world you have. 

Something something pot something something ketlle.

Edited 7 hours ago by badgerx16

[egg]

58 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Even if you love Trump, clearly the most important people were those agreeing and it would not be happening without them but yes, lets hope all is well and the hostage release goes ahead

Quite. The people doing the conceding, and those mediating, did the heavy lifting. Sure, Donny's threats / coercion / whatever, behind the scenes paved the way, but let's not elevate what he's directly done here. 

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

Quite. The people doing the conceding, and those mediating, did the heavy lifting. Sure, Donny's threats / coercion / whatever, behind the scenes paved the way, but let's not elevate what he's directly done here. 

And without him they would not be at the point they can agree on the framework we have now. Even the BBC have been praising his input and overall guarantees only he can provide 
 

It appears organisations like Hamas respond to threats as opposed to thoughts and prayers 

Edited 6 hours ago by AlexLaw76

[badgerx16]

Why not revisit this discussion in 6 months and then see whether the 'peace' has held and things are taking a turn for the better.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, badgerx16 said:

Why not revisit this discussion in 6 months and then see whether the 'peace' has held and things are taking a turn for the better.

I suspect it won’t turn out as everyone hopes, these people will likely never ever be at peace. But if the total annihilation of Gaza stops here, thousands of lives are spared and hostages / prisoners are exchanged, this should be celebrated hugely 

[egg]

10 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

And without him they would not be at the point they can agree on the framework we have now. Even the BBC have been praising his input and overall guarantees only he can provide 
 

It appears organisations like Hamas respond to threats as opposed to thoughts and prayers 

I think there's been as much strong arming of Israel as of Hamas here, and there needed to be. Left to their own devices, they'd have carried on filling their boots.

Donny deserves some credit, of course, but not the excessive ego massaging he craves and is getting. 

[ecuk268]

30 minutes ago, egg said:

I think there's been as much strong arming of Israel as of Hamas here, and there needed to be. Left to their own devices, they'd have carried on filling their boots.

Donny deserves some credit, of course, but not the excessive ego massaging he craves and is getting. 

He's missed out on the Nobel Peace Prize.

Maybe if he sorts out Ukraine he'll get it next year.

[egg]

7 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

He's missed out on the Nobel Peace Prize.

Maybe if he sorts out Ukraine he'll get it next year.

He's sorting Chicago, that'll do! 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

15 minutes ago, egg said:

He's sorting Chicago, that'll do! 

His work in eradicating musicals should be rewarded. 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Why not revisit this discussion in 6 months and then see whether the 'peace' has held and things are taking a turn for the better.

What does securing the release of the hostage shave to do with what happens over the next six months? If they're released next week then it's superb news and a great positive for which Trump and his administration deserve great credit even if things go wrong after that. Maybe they will be due some criticism if that happens as well.

[tdmickey3]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Lol. Just admit that someone you hate might have done something positive. I despise everything about Blair but if he has assisted with this then he deserves his share of the credit too.

You are clearly not understanding, you wanted to give him sole credit and make him out to be the most important, he wasn't, because without the agreement and cooperation of the negotiators it would have fallen flat, but he does deserve some credit of course but its not all him.

For the record i don't hate anyone especially someone i don't know.

[hypochondriac]

Just now, tdmickey3 said:

You are clearly not understanding, you wanted to give him sole credit and make him out to be the most important, he wasn't, because without the agreement and cooperation of the negotiators it would have fallen flat, but he does deserve some credit of course but its not all him.

For the record i don't hate anyone especially someone i don't know.

I never wanted to give him sole credit. I did make him out to be the most important because he clearly is. Without his direct involvement this wouldn't be happening. The negotiators include people Donny has direct involvement in appointing. I've never said it's all him just to be clear.

[tdmickey3]

1 hour ago, east-stand-nic said:

TDS is strong in this one. What a childish view of the world you have. 

Hahahahaha nothing childish about anything i wrote there, you stupid boy

[egg]

9 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

His work in eradicating musicals should be rewarded. 

Love it!!

Hopefully he sort Cats as well. 

[tdmickey3]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

I never wanted to give him sole credit. I did make him out to be the most important because he clearly is. Without his direct involvement this wouldn't be happening. The negotiators include people Donny has direct involvement in appointing. I've never said it's all him just to be clear.

He isn't but its your opinion even if its misguided ..

You said you despise Blair for something but the blame would not have fallen solely on him, negotiating and subsequent actions are made by several parties

[tdmickey3]

1 hour ago, egg said:

I think there's been as much strong arming of Israel as of Hamas here, and there needed to be. Left to their own devices, they'd have carried on filling their boots.

Donny deserves some credit, of course, but not the excessive ego massaging he craves and is getting. 

Read this Hypo/Alex, it is spot on

[egg]

6 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

What does securing the release of the hostage shave to do with what happens over the next six months? If they're released next week then it's superb news and a great positive for which Trump and his administration deserve great credit even if things go wrong after that. Maybe they will be due some criticism if that happens as well.

It's not all about the 20 Israeli's mate. The issue is a wee bit bigger than that. A proper solution is essential otherwise we'll be back here soon.

Ceasefire needed, release of the captives on both sides, a sustained peace. That's just the beginning. We're about an hour into that. Let's not get ahead of ourselves,  and suggesting that we don't need more than that is daft. 

[hypochondriac]

8 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

He isn't but its your opinion even if its misguided ..

You said you despise Blair for something but the blame would not have fallen solely on him, negotiating and subsequent actions are made by several parties

I don't even support Trump. Personally I find him brash and displaying the worst traits of a stereotypical American. I can however recognise when he does something positive even if it's for self serving reasons. I find it funny when clearly some people in society want to downplay this achievement -again, assuming it happens-primarily because Trump has had a big hand in it happening. There are some people who would rather this wasn't happening because they don't like the fact that Trump can boast about it and because he's been involved. For those people it's never been about 'stop the genocide.'

Edited 5 hours ago by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

It's not all about the 20 Israeli's mate. The issue is a wee bit bigger than that. A proper solution is essential otherwise we'll be back here soon.

Ceasefire needed, release of the captives on both sides, a sustained peace. That's just the beginning. We're about an hour into that. Let's not get ahead of ourselves,  and suggesting that we don't need more than that is daft. 

You're making things up now. The hostages being released is an achievement if it happens which Trump will deserve some credit for securing. If everything goes to shit after that happens it doesn't make the release of the hostages not an achievement. I've never once said "we don't need more than that."

[tdmickey3]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

I don't even support Trump. Personally I find him brash and displaying the worst traits of a stereotypical American. I can however recognise when he does something positive even if it's for self serving reasons. I find it funny when clearly some people in society want to downplay this achievement -again, assuming it happens-primarily because Trump has had a big hand in it happening.

FFS, no one is down playing it just not giving him ALL of the credit, which part of that can you not grasp? 

[tdmickey3]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

You're making things up now. The hostages being released is an achievement if it happens which Trump will deserve some credit for securing. If everything goes to shit after that happens it doesn't make the release of the hostages not an achievement. I've never once said "we don't need more than that."

Yes, SOME credit

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

FFS, no one is down playing it just not giving him ALL of the credit, which part of that can you not grasp? 

Please quote anywhere where I have said he deserves all the credit. It seems you're having an argument with yourself.

Edited 5 hours ago by hypochondriac

[tdmickey3]

10 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Please quote anywhere where I have said he deserves all the credit. It seems you're having an argument with yourself.

Fair enough but cant be bothered to check.

Equally "we" have not said he doesn't deserve some credit

[trousers]

[badgerx16]

51 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

What does securing the release of the hostage shave to do with what happens over the next six months? If they're released next week then it's superb news and a great positive for which Trump and his administration deserve great credit even if things go wrong after that. Maybe they will be due some criticism if that happens as well.

My post was a comment on the peace agreement as a whole and it's chances of success, given some people are lauding Trump as the man who has single handedly solved the Middle-East. If all Hamas held hostages and Israeli held detainees are free by Sunday we will still be on step 2 or 3 of a 20 point roadmap. With nearly 80 years of hindsight to rely on, I reserve the right to he sceptical.

Edited 4 hours ago by badgerx16

[hypochondriac]

10 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

My post was a comment on the peace agreement as a whole and it's chances of success, given some people are lauding Trump as the man who has single handedly solved the Middle-East. If all Hamas held hostages and Israeli held detainees are free by Sunday we will still be on step 2 or 3 of a 20 point roadmap. With nearly 80 years of hindsight to rely on, I reserve the right to he sceptical.

In that case I agree. I don't think anyone on this forum has lauded Trump in that manner, maybe some of the maga lot have. I tend to agree that the chance of this being a long term success is small. Things are definitely a lot better than they were even a few weeks ago though and we should celebrate the victories when we get them.

[egg]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Please quote anywhere where I have said he deserves all the credit. It seems you're having an argument with yourself.

Please feel free to quote where you've said that anyone else deserves credit. Your focus is on him. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

You're making things up now. The hostages being released is an achievement if it happens which Trump will deserve some credit for securing. If everything goes to shit after that happens it doesn't make the release of the hostages not an achievement. I've never once said "we don't need more than that."

I disagree with you that the focus here should be on the 20 Israeli's, and your focus on Trump for credit.

Thinking that you're wrong, as per, isn't me making stuff up. Daft comment. As per. 

[hypochondriac]

26 minutes ago, egg said:

Please feel free to quote where you've said that anyone else deserves credit. Your focus is on him. 

I've literally credited Blair above if he has some part in it. The clear implication from not saying that Trump is solely responsible and that he is an important part of this is that others have some share of credit too. Odd as usual that you think otherwise.

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

I disagree with you that the focus here should be on the 20 Israeli's, and your focus on Trump for credit.

Thinking that you're wrong, as per, isn't me making stuff up. Daft comment. As per. 

You said I was suggesting that "we don't need more than that". I wasn't. You made that up. I was saying that getting the hostages released would be an achievement which it would be. I accused you of making stuff up because you did. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Michael Stephens who is some sort of Middle East security expert credits Qatar & Turkey for bringing Hamas round. Reckons it’s a terrible deal for them, but the attack on Qatar was a game changer. He claims Qatar & Turkey basically told them this was the best deal they’d get, and they’d be abandoned to their fate if they rejected it.
 

He credits Trump with bringing Isreal on board and Blair & somebody else (can’t remember who) with devising a plan which this is based upon.

More importantly, for this particular debate, he said there was absolutely no chance of this happening had Harris won the election. 

[Sir Ralph]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

You said I was suggesting that "we don't need more than that". I wasn't. You made that up. I was saying that getting the hostages released would be an achievement which it would be. I accused you of making stuff up because you did. 

It’s great to see there is widespread agreement that Trump has had a hand in reaching this peace deal to whatever degree. Well done Donald. You’ve managed to help save many lives.

[egg]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

I've literally credited Blair above if he has some part in it. The clear implication from not saying that Trump is solely responsible and that he is an important part of this is that others have some share of credit too. Odd as usual that you think otherwise.

As has said a million times, your posting style leaves your posts open to interpretation.  Regardless, your focus here has been about Trump and 20 Israeli's. Not a word about the people actually negotiating, or the Palestinian people. There's no objectivity whatsoever.

[hypochondriac]

Perhaps the thing to do would be for the UN to create the 'greatest person in the world - much better than Obama or Biden award 2027' and say that Trump can only win it if he keeps peace in the Middle East and Ukraine for a year. Sounds mad I genuinely think he would consider that a good incentive.

[egg]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Perhaps the thing to do would be for the UN to create the 'greatest person in the world - much better than Obama or Biden award 2027' and say that Trump can only win it if he keeps peace in the Middle East and Ukraine for a year. Sounds mad I genuinely think he would consider that a good incentive.

Fucking hell 🤣

[hypochondriac]

16 minutes ago, egg said:

As has said a million times, your posting style leaves your posts open to interpretation.  Regardless, your focus here has been about Trump and 20 Israeli's. Not a word about the people actually negotiating, or the Palestinian people. There's no objectivity whatsoever.

As I've said a million times, you continually demonstrate bad faith interpretations of what I've posted and then tell me what I meant by what I posted rather than what I've said and what I'm telling you I meant. It's not my fault if you and a few like-minded posters choose to wrongly interpret what I posted. If you're having trouble then the best thing to do is to ask for clarification or at the very least accept the explanation once it's been given. All I said was that freeing the hostages would be an achievement and that Trump will rightly receive plaudits for his part in that if it comes off. I'm assuming you don't disagree with that so you'd be better off trying not to pull me into a tiresome argument about something unrelated to that.

Edited 1 hour ago by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Fucking hell 🤣

Imagine thinking that was a serious suggestion. 

[Sir Ralph]

21 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Perhaps the thing to do would be for the UN to create the 'greatest person in the world - much better than Obama or Biden award 2027' and say that Trump can only win it if he keeps peace in the Middle East and Ukraine for a year. Sounds mad I genuinely think he would consider that a good incentive.

I’d like to ask the Woke protesters that hate Trump so much but have (of all the conflicts in the world) focused on stopping the war in Palestine, if they could go back in time to the Presidential Election knowing that Trump would have a reasonable hand in stopping this war, whether they would have voted for him, despite their dislike for him. The answers would tell a lot….

Edited 1 hour ago by Sir Ralph

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I’d like to ask the Woke protesters that hate Trump so much but have (of all the conflicts in the world) focused on stopping the war in Palestine, if they could go back in time to the Presidential Election knowing that Trump would have a reasonable hand in stopping this war, whether they would have voted for him, despite their dislike for him. The answers would tell a lot….

Obviously not. I do find that an interesting phenomenon though. Clearly loads of people disagree with Starmer but if he helps end the war in Ukraine everyone in the UK should be celebrating. There are some people who would rather Britain or America did badly simply because they don't like the leader or have ideological differences with him. You can hate Trump or Starmer and still celebrate when a win for them is a win for your country.

[egg]

9 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I’d like to ask the Woke protesters that hate Trump so much but have (of all the conflicts in the world) focused on stopping the war in Palestine, if they could go back in time to the Presidential Election knowing that Trump would have a reasonable hand in stopping this war, whether they would have voted for him, despite their dislike for him. The answers would tell a lot….

Any US president could have stopped the assault on Gaza, and at any time.

I'm not going to blow smoke up his arse for supplying Israel with as much weaponry as they have, and to allow them to act with impunity for so long.

The stance the US has taken in the UN during this has been a disgrace. That stance flows from Trump. 

Better late than never, yes, but the adulation going his way is nauseating.