The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[badgerx16]

13 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

You would have made a much more rationale response than normal, if that was the case.😉

Nic, rational ? Now we know you are his second login.

[Whitey Grandad]

On 29/08/2025 at 08:38, badgerx16 said:

Mind you, I got a pay rise and promotion out of it.

Add that to the cost of the review. 

[The Kraken]

Someone must be having a ruddy long old holiday. Fair play to that.

 

Edited Saturday at 08:04 by The Kraken

[Sir Ralph]

15 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

Politically the Bell Hotel issue is a nightmare for Labour. They had to defend the position as there is no alternative for relocating the asylum seekers got removed from hotels. However, to most people, despite what Starmer has says, it looks like he and his cabinet has sent the Home Office out to defend asylum seekers over locals and won. This is going to be a big problem for him that is going to rumble on the more and more media attention this gets.

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

30 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

 

Shock? 

 

On second thoughts, it’s a shock it’s only 15 points. 
 

[egg]

29 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Shock? 

 

On second thoughts, it’s a shock it’s only 15 points. 
 

What is a shock is so many people backing a party when they have zero clue about their policies beyond "sending them back". They'll have a shock when the welfare state all but disappears, and the NHS is replaced by an insurance based system. By all means back a party if you understand what you'll get, but it's crazy that people aren't looking beyond one solitary issue. 

Edited Saturday at 10:17 by egg

[east-stand-nic]

18 hours ago, egg said:

Quick question. Do you want to know so that you can give him a round of applause for each sacking of a duff employee? I think he needs 3. 

Ah ok. So starmer sacks load of top aides it is coz they are duff. Trump does it because he is a narcissist buffoon. Couldn't make it up, as usual. 

[egg]

1 minute ago, east-stand-nic said:

Ah ok. So starmer sacks load of top aides it is coz they are duff. Trump does it because he is a narcissist buffoon. Couldn't make it up, as usual. 

Err, err, ever so slightly irrelevant to turkeys voting for Christmas mate. 

[tdmickey3]

19 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

Ah ok. So starmer sacks load of top aides it is coz they are duff. Trump does it because he is a narcissist buffoon. Couldn't make it up, as usual. 

MAGA 

[badgerx16]

45 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

Ah ok. So starmer sacks load of top aides it is coz they are duff. Trump does it because he is a narcissist buffoon. Couldn't make it up, as usual. 

Whatever Trump does he will always be a narcissistic buffoon.

Edited Saturday at 11:18 by badgerx16

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, egg said:

and the NHS is replaced by an insurance based system.

Yes, they might get a shock when they don’t have to wait weeks to see a doctor or get an hospital appointment.
 

Is that the best you can do, the NHS & Welfare. The NHS is  horrendous & the welfare state becoming unaffordable. The German chancellor is facing up to reality, eventually someone will force us to. 
 

“The welfare state that we have today can no longer be financed with what we produce in the economy," 

[east-stand-nic]

And yet again the looney left caught with double standards come back with nonsense. It's a delight to show up you loons.

It's crystal clear Starmer is a dictator and will sack anyone who goes against him in the slightest. He is every bit as narcissistic as Trump. 

Edited Saturday at 11:45 by east-stand-nic

[egg]

Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

Yes, they might get a shock when they don’t have to wait weeks to see a doctor or get an hospital appointment.
 

Is that the best you can do, the NHS & Welfare. The NHS is  horrendous & the welfare state becoming unaffordable. The German chancellor is facing up to reality, eventually someone will force us to. 
 

“The welfare state that we have today can no longer be financed with what we produce in the economy," 

What benefits do you see from a Reform government for the average working person? How will they get on with paying for their own healthcare? 

The welfare state needs looking at, that's for sure, but that includes the state pension. The whole lot is unaffordable. 

Then those two issues need some joined up thinking. People don't work because of their health, so the obvious solution is to remove free at the point of health care and replace it with a system that people have to pay for with money they can't earn. Explain how that works please. 

[egg]

3 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

And yet again the looney left caught with double standards come back with nonsense. It's a delight to show up you loons.

Left? I've never voted labour mate. I'm no fan of the ridiculous right either. There's a sensible bit in the middle.

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, egg said:

What benefits do you see from a Reform government for the average working person? How will they get on with paying for their own healthcare? 

 

How do you think it’s paid for now, the magic money tree? 

There’s dozens of different models of running a national health service. I’ve used health services in France, Spain & Greece.  My experience with all 3 are better than I’ve had with the NHS. Open your mind, there is a reason other countries haven’t copied our outdated 1940’s system. 

[hypochondriac]

7 hours ago, egg said:

What is a shock is so many people backing a party when they have zero clue about their policies beyond "sending them back". They'll have a shock when the welfare state all but disappears, and the NHS is replaced by an insurance based system. By all means back a party if you understand what you'll get, but it's crazy that people aren't looking beyond one solitary issue. 

What they're doing is backing a party that says they are going to sort things that they care about and that aren't labour and conservative. It doesn't really matter to most how realistic it is what farage says. 

[egg]

35 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

How do you think it’s paid for now, the magic money tree? 

There’s dozens of different models of running a national health service. I’ve used health services in France, Spain & Greece.  My experience with all 3 are better than I’ve had with the NHS. Open your mind, there is a reason other countries haven’t copied our outdated 1940’s system. 

I agree that our system needs major overhaul - I haven't suggested otherwise it

The issue I have is that Reform don't want an NHS, but want an insurance based system. That's more akin to an American system than that which other European countries offer. The masses will struggle to afford that, as per Americans. 

 

[egg]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

What they're doing is backing a party that says they are going to sort things that they care about and that aren't labour and conservative. It doesn't really matter to most how realistic it is what farage says. 

I get that, although the focus is on one policy, but without any idea of the other stuff that'll impact them more than some largely disused hotels being stuffed with asylum seekers.

[Gloucester Saint]

6 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

What they're doing is backing a party that says they are going to sort things that they care about and that aren't labour and conservative. It doesn't really matter to most how realistic it is what farage says. 

And every time Farage is asked for details at a press launch or speech, you can see the panic in his eyes same as Boris and parries it to a colleague straight away. Same again midweek and already rowed back on child deportations the next day in Edinburgh.

No grasp of detail, policy or otherwise, and look where it got the country with Johnson, and Brexit (which Farage was central to as well). Leaps in the dark don’t pan out well. Not a fan of this government either but some of the public need to grow up and stop looking for unicorns. Doing so has already slashed 6% off our economy. 

Edited Saturday at 17:22 by Gloucester Saint

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

I get that, although the focus is on one policy, but without any idea of the other stuff that'll impact them more than some largely disused hotels being stuffed with asylum seekers.

A lot of people see the economy fucked, lots of things going wrong and things going from bad to worse under both main political parties. Labour got into power largely because they weren't the Tories and now reform will be favourites to win the next election for the same reason wherever the focus is.

[Gloucester Saint]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

A lot of people see the economy fucked, lots of things going wrong and things going from bad to worse under both main political parties. Labour got into power largely because they weren't the Tories and now reform will be favourites to win the next election for the same reason wherever the focus is.

Frying pan and fire. Reform’s offices don’t have calculators https://ifs.org.uk/election-2024/general-election-2024-manifesto-analysis-ifs

[hypochondriac]

The illegal migrant issue just highlights one absurdity. The idea that a majority of the electorate wants it sorted and yet the government is powerless in the face of a treaty is ridiculous. People should be able to get what they vote for even if you disagree with it.

[Gloucester Saint]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

A lot of people see the economy fucked, lots of things going wrong and things going from bad to worse under both main political parties. Labour got into power largely because they weren't the Tories and now reform will be favourites to win the next election for the same reason wherever the focus is.

Don’t disagree with the first bit, living standards have stalled since 2008 and hence the growth of populism. But the electorate and especially the Reform supporting part have to take some responsibility for voting Leave.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Frying pan and fire. Reform’s offices don’t have calculators https://ifs.org.uk/election-2024/general-election-2024-manifesto-analysis-ifs

Not sure why you're sending me these links. I'm just highlighting to you why as it stands reform are likely to get in. How fanciful or otherwise farage claims and manifesto isn't hugely relevant. They are promising change and aren't labour.

[Gloucester Saint]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

The illegal migrant issue just highlights one absurdity. The idea that a majority of the electorate wants it sorted and yet the government is powerless in the face of a treaty is ridiculous. People should be able to get what they vote for even if you disagree with it.

It’s not just a treaty though, it’s common law if you look at Grieve’s comments. And we don’t want political judges like they have in the US. 

[Gloucester Saint]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Not sure why you're sending me these links. I'm just highlighting to you why as it stands reform are likely to get in. How fanciful or otherwise farage claims and manifesto isn't hugely relevant. They are promising change and aren't labour.

Nobody knows what that change is, just like Brexit, so it’s 100% relevant. The last leap in the dark cost us car manufacturing and exports, hundreds and thousands of jobs, and pushed public services to edge. But yes, there are enough stupid people to drink the populist snake oil, 5 years to regret it and 25 to fix it.

[egg]

6 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

A lot of people see the economy fucked, lots of things going wrong and things going from bad to worse under both main political parties. Labour got into power largely because they weren't the Tories and now reform will be favourites to win the next election for the same reason wherever the focus is.

I don't disagree, but, this "give them a try cos it can't get any worse" mentality is just nuts, especially as it will likely get worse for pretty much everyone apart from people arriving on boats, or selfish people who earn a bit and don't give a monkeys as long as they're paying less tax. 

We'll turn into a mini America, but with worse infrastructure and less skilled people. 

[hypochondriac]

Just now, Gloucester Saint said:

Nobody knows what that change is, just like Brexit, so it’s 100% relevant. The last leap in the dark cost us car manufacturing and exports, hundreds and thousands of jobs, and pushed public services to edge. But yes, there are enough stupid people to drink the populist snake oil, 5 years to regret it and 25 to fix it.

The fact that no one knows exactly what the change is has no relevance to reform being favourites to gain power. People have given labour a chance and they've absolutely fucked it so people will try reform .

[Gloucester Saint]

1 minute ago, egg said:

We'll turn into a mini America, but with worse infrastructure and less skilled people. 

Given Farage’s constant apeing of MAGA language that’s a given. 

[AlexLaw76]

It will be the complete lack of immigration control that will be the primary factor that ends this Government, much like the last and why the nation voted for Brexit.

Won't be long before "Labour Aides" leak to the media that sending the military into the channel is up for consideration despite having absolutely no intention of doing it...just to try and slow the shift to Reform

[Gloucester Saint]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

The fact that no one knows exactly what the change is has no relevance to reform being favourites to gain power. People have given labour a chance and they've absolutely fucked it so people will try reform .

And get what? More public debt like Trump is piling up over there? End of free at point of entry healthcare? To vote for something that you don’t know anything about is an absolute dick move by anyone who does it.

Nearer the GE he will actually have to start taking policy positions other than ‘keep the Muslims out’ and hopefully where the wheels come off the clown car, plus Labour and Tories changing leaders. He also has fallen out with every single MP, you can only imagine the civil war if they get 100+ MPs? 

Edited Saturday at 17:38 by Gloucester Saint

[egg]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

It will be the complete lack of immigration control that will be the primary factor that ends this Government, much like the last and why the nation voted for Brexit.

Won't be long before "Labour Aides" leak to the media that sending the military into the channel is up for consideration despite having absolutely no intention of doing it...just to try and slow the shift to Reform

The sad thing is that the masses have no appreciation that labour have knocked 350k or so from the net migration numbers, and closed about 200 hotels. That's a decent effort.  What labour need though is a pretty swift alternative to the hotels, and some proper system to control legal migration. We need to focus on what we actually need that benefits us, and work backwards from that. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Gloucester Saint said:

And get what? More public debt like Trump is piling up over there? End of free at point of entry healthcare? To vote for something that you don’t know anything about is an absolute dick move by anyone who does it.

Nearer the GE he will actually have to start taking positions and hopefully that’s where the wheels come off the clown car, plus Labour and Tories changing leaders. He also has fallen out with every single MP, you can only imagine the civil war if they get 100+ MPs? 

Depends how desperate you are and how fed up you are of voting for major political parties who say they are going to do something and then not doing it.

If net migration is something you really care about and is something you want to get sorted then why has every political party for decades now promised to bring the numbers down and then seen it increase hugely? If that is something yo u want to sort then no wonder you think politicians just lie and don't give a fuck about you or what you want. It's a disgrace that that has happened consistently. Similarly with the rape gangs -the full details of which I only found out about myself recently. To know the politicians of all stripes and autjprotors have downplayed the issue for fear of upsetting minorities is appalling. I can see why someone who cares about those things would look at what has happened and think fuck it I'm voting for the party most likely to get in who isn't those two.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, egg said:

The sad thing is that the masses have no appreciation that labour have knocked 350k or so from the net migration numbers, and closed about 200 hotels. That's a decent effort.  What labour need though is a pretty swift alternative to the hotels, and some proper system to control legal migration. We need to focus on what we actually need that benefits us, and work backwards from that. 

The hotels thing will probably morph in countless stories of homeless people forced further to the back of an enormous local authority queue for a property that is given to an illegal/irregular immigrant. 

Even the PM said on record that there is plenty of spare housing to go around (he is clearly fucking clueless)

[Gloucester Saint]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Depends how desperate you are and how fed up you are of voting for major political parties who say they are going to do something and then not doing it.

If net migration is something you really care about and is something you want to get sorted then why has every political party for decades now promised to bring the numbers down and then seen it increase hugely? If that is something yo u want to sort then no wonder you think politicians just lie and don't give a fuck about you or what you want. It's a disgrace that that has happened consistently. Similarly with the rape gangs -the full details of which I only found out about myself recently. To know the politicians of all stripes and autjprotors have downplayed the issue for fear of upsetting minorities is appalling. I can see why someone who cares about those things would look at what has happened and think fuck it I'm voting for the party most likely to get in who isn't those two.

That’s because having a focus purely on numbers in the first place is daft (May’s fault). The social care system a lot of Reform potential voters have elderly and other relatives in collapses without a flexible legal migration. Do you want your elderly mother cared for by a culture steeped in caring or by Tracy the 16 year school leaver who got Fs in her GCSEs if that and doesn’t care?

Same with nursing. 

[egg]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Depends how desperate you are and how fed up you are of voting for major political parties who say they are going to do something and then not doing it.

If net migration is something you really care about and is something you want to get sorted then why has every political party for decades now promised to bring the numbers down and then seen it increase hugely? If that is something yo u want to sort then no wonder you think politicians just lie and don't give a fuck about you or what you want. It's a disgrace that that has happened consistently. Similarly with the rape gangs -the full details of which I only found out about myself recently. To know the politicians of all stripes and autjprotors have downplayed the issue for fear of upsetting minorities is appalling. I can see why someone who cares about those things would look at what has happened and think fuck it I'm voting for the party most likely to get in who isn't those two.

None of that has any regard to how voting without real thought actually helps the people casting that vote.

The average person, if they're honest, isn't actually affected by illegal migrants. Legal migration may help them - they'll need a dentist, a doctor, an Uber driver, etc.

We're seeing people viewing migrants of all variants in a negative way, and seemingly feel personallly impacted by it,  whether they are or they aren't. To then vote for a party to address those issues, but without any thought as to how that party will change other things that actually impact their every day life, is utter madness. 

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

That’s because having a focus purely on numbers in the first place is daft (May’s fault). The social care system a lot of Reform potential voters have elderly and other relatives in collapses without a flexible legal migration. Do you want your elderly mother cared for by a culture steeped in caring or by Tracy the 16 year school leaver who got Fs in her GCSEs if that and doesn’t care?

Same with nursing. 

If migration was solely bringing in people to fill positions in nursing and in the care industry theb I don't believe it would be half the problem it is.

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

None of that has any regard to how voting without real thought actually helps the people casting that vote.

The average person, if they're honest, isn't actually affected by illegal migrants. Legal migration may help them - they'll need a dentist, a doctor, an Uber driver, etc.

We're seeing people viewing migrants of all variants in a negative way, and seemingly feel personallly impacted by it,  whether they are or they aren't. To then vote for a party to address those issues, but without any thought as to how that party will change other things that actually impact their every day life, is utter madness. 

Different people have differing priorities. I don't necessarily agree with them but if someone says consistently for years that they care about migration then the party in power should do a better job of sorting it. Especially if they promised to do so.

[Gloucester Saint]

10 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

If migration was solely bringing in people to fill positions in nursing and in the care industry theb I don't believe it would be half the problem it is.

It’s pretty major for social care and nursing - having family work in those areas it is certainly true. Some towns like Loughborough and Durham are also totally reliant on this universities for employment and SMEs rely on the spending and contracts. Braverman spitefully put students and dependents in the figures to spark disorder. Current government has made it much harder for students to claim asylum after their studies finish and I don’t see any rationale for an oncology PhD and their family to be cited in immigration data when they’ve trained here, paying tens of thousands in visas, health surcharges (which Farage and the papers never reference) and fees, and taking those skills back home. They are also treating UK patients whilst training and helping pay for the border forces. 

The boats and lorries for smuggling do my head in as well but that’s asylum and that’s what the numerical focus should be on IMHO. 

Edited Saturday at 18:07 by Gloucester Saint

[whelk]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’ve used health services in France, Spain & Greece

Of course you have. More stories than SOG this one. Fall ill every holiday

[whelk]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

The fact that no one knows exactly what the change is has no relevance to reform being favourites to gain power. People have given labour a chance and they've absolutely fucked it so people will try reform .

20% through the term. Lol

[Sir Ralph]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Different people have differing priorities. I don't necessarily agree with them but if someone says consistently for years that they care about migration then the party in power should do a better job of sorting it. Especially if they promised to do so.

Before the 2024 election this was a summary of the key issues that the Electorate were concerned with:

The cost of living tops the list, with 45% of Britons saying it is one of the most important issues in deciding their vote. Health comes in a distant second, on 34%, followed closely by ‘the economy in general’ on 32%, and then immigration in fourth on 26%.

Whilst the Tories lost heavily because they didn’t address these matters, most people’s view is that healthcare is probably the only thing that has improved under Labour (I appreciate they are only one year in). Unless they address economic issues and immigration (which I think they will struggle on both), the electorate will keep looking g for a party that can move the country in the right direction on these matters. Thats not a party political statement it’s just what I expect to happen.

Edited Saturday at 19:05 by Sir Ralph

[Sir Ralph]

4 minutes ago, whelk said:

Of course you have. More stories than SOG this one. Fall ill every holiday

It’s hardly the most unlikely story. Regardless the NHS does need significant reform to stop it draining money as, if it doesn’t, I can’t see it being sustainable in the longer term. Lots of people working in the NHS say the same about it needing to be reformed. Needs political will and a lack of fear about backlash for doing so.

Edited Saturday at 19:02 by Sir Ralph

[whelk]

Just now, Sir Ralph said:

It’s hardly the most unlikely story. Regardless the NHS does need significant reform to stop it draining money as, if it doesn’t, I can’t see it being sustainable in the longer term. Lots of people working in the NHS say the same.

I don’t disagree NHS a needs reform, but those simpletons in Reform don’t have the nous to do anything sensible about it. They will have someone to blame of course when they make it worse and let their corrupt mates cream off the taxpayer. Charlatans just tapping into people’s disillusionment. The only one thing positive is that their obvious popularity should have woken up the other parties that people want action on immigration and don’t think it is some far right issue.

[Sir Ralph]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

I don’t disagree NHS a needs reform, but those simpletons in Reform don’t have the nous to do anything sensible about it. They will have someone to blame of course when they make it worse and let their corrupt mates cream off the taxpayer. Charlatans just tapping into people’s disillusionment. The only one thing positive is that their obvious popularity should have woken up the other parties that people want action on immigration and don’t think it is some far right issue.

I agree that one of the concerns with Reform is how coherent they will be as a party and whether they can manage in government. They have a lack of people who understand how government works. On the flip side one of the issues with two main political parties is that they have too many “seasoned” politicians that have don’t real world experience. If Reform did secure a substantial number of seats a coalition with the conservatives might be an outcome which at least moves in the right direction to addressing this. I think they might win an outright majority anyway

Edited Saturday at 19:13 by Sir Ralph

[The Kraken]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

It will be the complete lack of immigration control that will be the primary factor that ends this Government, much like the last and why the nation voted for Brexit.

There in a nutshell sums up the complete lack of intelligence and understanding of an issue.

[Weston Super Saint]

13 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

And get what? More public debt like Trump is piling up over there? End of free at point of entry healthcare? To vote for something that you don’t know anything about is an absolute dick move by anyone who does it.

 

How is that any different to reading the manifesto, voting for the party based on the manifesto promises, then not having any of them delivered?

Snouts in the trough whichever party gets in.

[rallyboy]

I think you have to look at people's track record and make a judgement.

If Boris promised something I would be certain it wouldn't happen, ditto Farage - they both have appalling records of honesty and integrity.

If Corbyn promised something I suspect it would happen, though it would probably be something pointless, if Starmer promised something I would be probably rate it as 50-50.

 

[sadoldgit]

It’s not just Farage. Tice, 30p Lee, previously Lowe…the party attracts plenty of deeply unpleasant and untrustworthy people. You just have to look at what is happening in the US to see what would happen here if Reform win the next election. Hopefully the mess they are currently making of running many local councils will put off protest voters. You would like to think that those who have had enough of the two main parties would give their vote to the LibDems rather than Farage, yet despite already making a mess of this country by championing Brexit, some people still think he worthy of trusting with their vote.

Didn’t he say that he would leave the country if Brexit wasn’t a success? Why is he still here? He has a proven track record as a disrupter and destroyer but a zero past reputation as someone who can fix things. His plan to deport all those arriving on dinghies is a case in point. Where to Nigel? The plan was picked apart in minutes as being unworkable and he had to backtrack on women and children immediately.

Any idiot can spout populist nonsense and get the hard of thinking to support them (you only have to read some of these posts). Fixing a broken country takes time, money and unpopular decisions. We all want better services and a better infrastructure but no one wants to pay for it. Taxes will have to rise. The idea that things will improve without tax rises is a nonsense. Starmer would do well to stop worrying about Badenoch and Farage with a u turn on tax increases and start preparing us for them now.

Bring in fair and proportionate tax rises across the board. Spell out exactly where the money is going, hit your targets over the next 4 years and win over the trust of the floating voters.

If Farage wins power outright or forms a coalition with Badenoch, God help us all. If you think we are currently a divided nation, you ain’t seen nothing yet. Laughing emojis, people shinning up lamp posts with flags and spotty kids running local councils  will be the least of our worries.

[Lord Duckhunter]

17 hours ago, egg said:

The issue I have is that Reform don't want an NHS, but want an insurance based system.

Is that their policy, because they went into the last election with this, that’s not like America. Perhaps you’d be kind enough to post their new policy you seem to have seen.

 

The NHS, Health and Wellbeing

• Frontline NHS staff to pay zero basic rate of income tax for three years
• Use private healthcare capacity
• Give 20% tax relief to private healthcare providers
• Give NHS patients vouchers for private treatment if they do not receive NHS treatment in a certain time