The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, Osvaldorama said:

A couple of years ago it was “conspiracy” that Labour wanted to bring in digital IDs. 
 

Yet here we are. 

Who said that? Link please.

[Osvaldorama]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

I'm hoping he's just a wind-up as not sure he can genuinely believe what he is writing. If he does he's a great example of everything that is wrong with this country.

I am not sure what about my posts is winding you up. But I assure you that I’m just a person that wants the best for the country, and everyone in it. 
 

To me that is free market capitalism, founded upon strong morals and ethics. Free speech and free debate are fundamental to that, which is why I strongly object to starmer’s authoritarian streak. 

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

I am not sure what about my posts is winding you up. But I assure you that I’m just a person that wants the best for the country, and everyone in it. 
 

To me that is free market capitalism, founded upon strong morals and ethics. Free speech and free debate are fundamental to that, which is why I strongly object to starmer’s authoritarian streak. 

I'm not wound up by any means, I mean you're doing it as a joke to create an argument.

Again, I've asked you for examples of the thousands of people arrested for criticising the government and not committed an offence and you're yet to do that. Be good if you could please 👍

 

Edited 20 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[Osvaldorama]

3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I'm not wound up by any means, I mean you're doing it as a joke to create an argument.

Again, I've asked you for examples of the thousands of people arrested for criticising the government and not committed an offence and you're yet to do that. Be good if you could please 👍

 

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Again, give me some links and some examples. Numbers are irrelevant. Only the 4th time I've asked.

Edited 20 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[Gloucester Saint]

3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Again, give me some links and some examples. Numbers are irrelevant. Only the 4th time I've asked.

He thinks context is a double glazing company in Waterlooville.

[Osvaldorama]

9 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Who said that? Link please.

Digital IDs have been a “conspiracy theory” for years. 

It’s been a political point as far back as the 1950s, when the conservatives removed a form of ID after WW2.

There's a philosophical view that in the absence of ID cards, the individual is the owner of their identity, the state asks for evidence of identity as needed.

ID cards (& now digital ID) shift that, identity becomes something that is owned by, and awarded by, the state.

Moving from no state issued ID to a state issued ID fundamentally changes the relationship between the individual and the state. The state is now the source and arbiter of identity, not the individual.

The next part of the conspiracy, once the ID is in place, is that they will then introduce social credit scores, and link it to a CBDC (central bank digital currency) in order to control what you can spend. 

We’ll see if that materialises next….

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

5 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Again, give me some links and some examples. Numbers are irrelevant. Only the 4th time I've asked.

Wait, you're telling me a random bar chart taken from Twitter with zero context isn't irrefutable evidence?

[Sheaf Saint]

3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Again, give me some links and some examples. Numbers are irrelevant. Only the 4th time I've asked.

That graphic is misleading. A quick search reveals that the 12183 figure also includes arrests made under Section 1 of the Malicious Communications Act 1988, which outlaws sending indecent, offensive, or threatening letters and electronic messages with the intent to cause distress or anxiety.

The data doesn't differentiate between these and arrests made under the more recent legislation, so it's impossible to say how many of them are 'for social media activity'.

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, Osvaldorama said:

Digital IDs have been a “conspiracy theory” for years. 

It’s been a political point as far back as the 1950s, when the conservatives removed a form of ID after WW2.

There's a philosophical view that in the absence of ID cards, the individual is the owner of their identity, the state asks for evidence of identity as needed.

ID cards (& now digital ID) shift that, identity becomes something that is owned by, and awarded by, the state.

Moving from no state issued ID to a state issued ID fundamentally changes the relationship between the individual and the state. The state is now the source and arbiter of identity, not the individual.

The next part of the conspiracy, once the ID is in place, is that they will then introduce social credit scores, and link it to a CBDC (central bank digital currency) in order to control what you can spend. 

We’ll see if that materialises next….

They're not a "conspiracy theory". Do you know what a "conspiracy theory" is?

Is a Passport or a driving license not a government issued ID by the way?

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

That graphic is misleading. A quick search reveals that the 12183 figure also includes arrests made under Section 1 of the Malicious Communications Act 1988, which outlaws sending indecent, offensive, or threatening letters and electronic messages with the intent to cause distress or anxiety.

The data doesn't differentiate between these and arrests made under the more recent legislation, so it's impossible to say how many of them are 'for social media activity'.

Shhh, I'm giving him the rope...

[Farmer Saint]

11 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

That graphic is misleading. A quick search reveals that the 12183 figure also includes arrests made under Section 1 of the Malicious Communications Act 1988, which outlaws sending indecent, offensive, or threatening letters and electronic messages with the intent to cause distress or anxiety.

The data doesn't differentiate between these and arrests made under the more recent legislation, so it's impossible to say how many of them are 'for social media activity'.

Also, can't be 1988, as surely Labour must have come up with these new arrest laws?

[badgerx16]

22 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

 

There's a philosophical view that in the absence of ID cards, the individual is the owner of their identity, the state asks for evidence of identity as needed.

 

The World must be a terribly overbearing totalitarian mess, as, according to Wikipedia, the only countries that do not have national ID cards, whether compulsory or voluntary, are Andorra, Australia, Bahamas, Canada, Nauru, New Zealand, Tuvalu and the UK.

[Farmer Saint]

Wonder if we'll see people rioting in the streets after this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgld0vywpmo

 

[Farmer Saint]

Anyone else still waiting for @Osvaldorama to back up his claims?

[egg]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

Anyone else still waiting for @Osvaldorama to back up his claims?

Nope. You'll just get another twitter echo chamber claim, again unsubstantiated. 

[tdmickey3]

14 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

What's the problem with identifying yourself?

Not sure he knows who he is TBH

[tdmickey3]

10 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

Digital IDs have been a “conspiracy theory” for years. 

It’s been a political point as far back as the 1950s, when the conservatives removed a form of ID after WW2.

There's a philosophical view that in the absence of ID cards, the individual is the owner of their identity, the state asks for evidence of identity as needed.

ID cards (& now digital ID) shift that, identity becomes something that is owned by, and awarded by, the state.

Moving from no state issued ID to a state issued ID fundamentally changes the relationship between the individual and the state. The state is now the source and arbiter of identity, not the individual.

The next part of the conspiracy, once the ID is in place, is that they will then introduce social credit scores, and link it to a CBDC (central bank digital currency) in order to control what you can spend. 

We’ll see if that materialises next….

[Osvaldorama]

10 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

They're not a "conspiracy theory". Do you know what a "conspiracy theory" is?

Is a Passport or a driving license not a government issued ID by the way?

Did you not read my post? 
 

There is a big difference philosophically between driving licenses and a mandated state ID. 
 

With a driving license you are signing up willingly. A digital ID flips this and treats everyone as suspected criminals.

It will also eventually be linked to people’s financial records, biometric data, browing histories, etc . 

It will be a true honey pot of information for hackers and state surveillance.

They are building out the infrastructure for a dystopian social credit type system, under the guise of child safety. 
 

Once a centralised infrastructure like this is created, it will gain more and more power over time.

They are marketing the ban as a “simple fix” and playing on people’s emotions by using child safety as the reason to create the first step of a digital prison. 

[Osvaldorama]

Not to mention it’s unenforceable and won’t even work. Kids will easily bypass it. 
 

VPNs and decentralised social media already exist. So the net impact will be - kids move to less safe environments and the rest of us are left with a digital prison

[badgerx16]

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, Osvaldorama said:

Did you not read my post? 
 

There is a big difference philosophically between driving licenses and a mandated state ID. 
 

With a driving license you are signing up willingly. A digital ID flips this and treats everyone as suspected criminals.

It will also eventually be linked to people’s financial records, biometric data, browing histories, etc . 

It will be a true honey pot of information for hackers and state surveillance.

They are building out the infrastructure for a dystopian social credit type system, under the guise of child safety. 
 

Once a centralised infrastructure like this is created, it will gain more and more power over time.

They are marketing the ban as a “simple fix” and playing on people’s emotions by using child safety as the reason to create the first step of a digital prison. 

What Digital ID is this BTW? When is it coming in?

So you don't have a passport or driving license then? As you wouldn't knowingly sign up to a government ID.

There is a lot in your posts about anonymity, browsing histories etc. Genuine question - are you a paedophile? Because that's what your posts are saying to me.

Also, for the 6th time, can you please post some examples of the thousands of people arrested for criticising the government and not committed an offence? Ta.

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, Osvaldorama said:

Not to mention it’s unenforceable and won’t even work. Kids will easily bypass it. 
 

VPNs and decentralised social media already exist. So the net impact will be - kids move to less safe environments and the rest of us are left with a digital prison

So, do you have kids of social media age? If you do you'll know that you can track the apps that they use through Apple and Android. Therefore, if the parnets are policing it as well, they can't get around it.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

38 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Considering what happened to most of the visiting kids, he's exactly why the ban is coming in. 🙂

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

 

52 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Considering what happened to most of the visiting kids, he's exactly why the ban is coming in. 🙂

When I searched for that image, this is what GOOGLE came back with.....

 

[Osvaldorama]

2 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

So, do you have kids of social media age? If you do you'll know that you can track the apps that they use through Apple and Android. Therefore, if the parnets are policing it as well, they can't get around it.

I do. 
 

Call me crazy, but I think parents should determine what their teenagers do online rather than the government.

And that governments shouldn't use system-level ID checks to identify and monitor everything.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

 

When I searched for that image, this is what GOOGLE came back with.....

 

That's the thing with AI. They offer no practical ways of escaping Mr Wonka. Box breathing isn't really going to help

Going by some of the above  chat, now that Google knows you're afraid, it will have been flagged to various advertisers, who will be selling you home security and anti depressants.

When they're done with you, the deep state will know that you can be scared and intimidated by their shadowy agents. 

 

 

[Farmer Saint]

3 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

I do. 
 

Call me crazy, but I think parents should determine what their teenagers do online rather than the government.

And that governments shouldn't use system-level ID checks to identify and monitor everything.

The problem is a lot of parents are irresponsible, so the decision has to be taken out of their hands. Would you prefer kids to be abused, both mentally and physically, ahead of having digital IDs?

Also, can you answer my previous question (7th time of asking)?

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

What Digital ID is this BTW? When is it coming in?

So you don't have a passport or driving license then? As you wouldn't knowingly sign up to a government ID.

There is a lot in your posts about anonymity, browsing histories etc. Genuine question - are you a paedophile? Because that's what your posts are saying to me.

Also, for the 6th time, can you please post some examples of the thousands of people arrested for criticising the government and not committed an offence? Ta.

Bit of a nuclear comment?

[Osvaldorama]

4 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

The problem is a lot of parents are irresponsible, so the decision has to be taken out of their hands. Would you prefer kids to be abused, both mentally and physically, ahead of having digital IDs?

Also, can you answer my previous question (7th time of asking)?

Your questions are disgusting and I’m not going to spend any time doing basic research for you. 
 

Not wanting a digital prison that tracks everyone doesn’t mean I want kids to be harmed. The mental gymnastics and propaganda you’ve swallowed believe that is crazy to me 😂

[aintforever]

3 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

 There is a big difference philosophically between driving licenses and a mandated state ID.  

Not really, there are not many people who choose not to drive or travel abroad.

All this conspiracy stuff is hilarious, especially as it is usually spouted by idiots online who are apparently quite happy to have big tech firms harvest all sorts of data from whatever device they are using.

[Farmer Saint]

8 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Your questions are disgusting and I’m not going to spend any time doing basic research for you. 
 

Not wanting a digital prison that tracks everyone doesn’t mean I want kids to be harmed. The mental gymnastics and propaganda you’ve swallowed believe that is crazy to me 😂

You can't prove it then - even though as you've said thousands of people have been arrested for criticising the government?

If you don't want children harmed, what is your solution?

[Farmer Saint]

14 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Bit of a nuclear comment?

Not really, freedom of speech innit? @Osvaldorama will back me up here, I have every right to say that to him.

Edited 5 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[whelk]

14 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

The World must be a terribly overbearing totalitarian mess, as, according to Wikipedia, the only countries that do not have national ID cards, whether compulsory or voluntary, are Andorra, Australia, Bahamas, Canada, Nauru, New Zealand, Tuvalu and the UK.

The world is very scary for the likes of Osvaldo. They become fearful so easily at so many things.

[Osvaldorama]

38 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Not really, freedom of speech innit? @Osvaldorama will back me up here, I have every right to say that to him.

Yes, you have every right to saw low IQ things 

[Osvaldorama]

26 minutes ago, whelk said:

The world is very scary for the likes of Osvaldo. They become fearful so easily at so many things.

The alternative is that I’ve read a lot more history than you, and understand the power plays that nation states have used throughout the decades, therefore I don’t fall for their nonsense now.

 

But yes, you keep imagining in fearful 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

Not really, freedom of speech innit? @Osvaldorama will back me up here, I have every right to say that to him.

Just because you could, doesn't mean you should. 🙂

You can have a debate about the rights of privacy/ freedom of expression and on the benefits of preventing access to the vulnerable without it being reduced to inferring that the reason for holding a position is due to child abuse.

[Farmer Saint]

36 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

The alternative is that I’ve read a lot more history than you, and understand the power plays that nation states have used throughout the decades, therefore I don’t fall for their nonsense now.

 

But yes, you keep imagining in fearful 

Love it, what a flex that is! 😂

Shame you've not read more about people who have been arrested for criticising the current government, as otherwise you may save yourself a lot of embarrassment of not being able to back up your statements.

You keep pretending that you aren't in favour of abusing children rather than having Digital IDs, because from your lack of other ideas it seems that's what you're condoning.

[Osvaldorama]

9 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Just because you could, doesn't mean you should. 🙂

You can have a debate about the rights of privacy/ freedom of expression and on the benefits of preventing access to the vulnerable without it being reduced to inferring that the reason for holding a position is due to child abuse.

I don’t say this to be harsh - but i genuinely don’t think his brain has the capacity comprehend second order effects.

Instead of actually thinking about the topic at hand, it’s easier to just throw insults  

It’s a real problem. A big part of why people support the left and socialism in general, which has proven itself again and again to be a terrible way to organise society, is because people don’t study or think. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Osvaldorama

[Farmer Saint]

42 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Yes, you have every right to saw low IQ things 

As do you, as you've quite clearly proven over the last month or so.

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, Osvaldorama said:

I don’t say this to be harsh - but i genuinely don’t think his brain has the capacity comprehend second order effects.

Instead of actually thinking about the topic at hand, it’s easier to just throw insults  

It’s a real problem. A big part of why people support the left and socialism in general, which is proven again and again to be a terrible way to organise society, is because people don’t study or think. 

Don't worry, I'm not taking it as harsh - my two degrees and MBA will keep my silly little brain occupied.

[Farmer Saint]

So @Osvaldorama are you going to answer the questions about your statement that 1000's of people have been arrested for criticising the government, or can we put that down to you making stuff up again?

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Osvaldorama said:

The alternative is that I’ve read a lot more history than you, and understand the power plays that nation states have used throughout the decades, therefore I don’t fall for their nonsense now.

But you do fall for the absolute nonsense peddled by Reform and Restore. Do you honestly believe that either of them would introduce a free-thinking libertarian utopia if elected ?

[badgerx16]

13 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

So @Osvaldorama are you going to answer the questions about your statement that 1000's of people have been arrested for criticising the government, or can we put that down to you making stuff up again?

He doesn't make stuff up, he reads it on social media.

[Osvaldorama]

18 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

But you do fall for the absolute nonsense peddled by Reform and Restore. Do you honestly believe that either of them would introduce a free-thinking libertarian utopia if elected ?

I am not a fan of reform. 

I am a fan of restore. I think they’re the only party that would actually lower government spending. That’s the main issue that I care about. 
 

Almost all other issues in the UK are downstream of the fact that there is zero accountability in how the state spends our money. 

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

I am not a fan of reform. 

I am a fan of restore. I think they’re the only party that would actually lower government spending. That’s the main issue that I care about. 
 

Almost all other issues in the UK are downstream of the fact that there is zero accountability in how the state spends our money. 

What figures within the restore movement are the ones that made you a fan?

[Gloucester Saint]

46 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

What figures within the restore movement are the ones that made you a fan?

The one which took our football club from being established in the PL to bankrupt in League 1 on -10 points. 

Bodes well, doesn’t it? 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

3 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

The one which took our football club from being established in the PL to bankrupt in League 1 on -10 points. 

Bodes well, doesn’t it? 

I've just had a peek at their policies. Somehow immigration was responsible for our relegation, as it seems to be behind nearly everything else. Too many good overseas players, beating us every week?

[whelk]

4 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

The alternative is that I’ve read a lot more history than you, and understand the power plays that nation states have used throughout the decades, therefore I don’t fall for their nonsense now.

 

But yes, you keep imagining in fearful 

The fact that you keep talking about reading history makes you sound very insecure about your intellect. The problem is your posts give you away as not overly bright.

Edited 23 minutes ago by whelk

[egg]

3 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

I am not a fan of reform. 

I am a fan of restore. I think they’re the only party that would actually lower government spending. That’s the main issue that I care about. 
 

Almost all other issues in the UK are downstream of the fact that there is zero accountability in how the state spends our money. 

So spending as little money as possible is more important to you than spending an appropriate amount of money to get an appropriately run state. What an odd outlook.