The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[Sir Ralph]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

If you have £100, and you currently give me £60 of it, and instead I ask you £61 of it to improve the country for everyone, I would give that extra pound.

Not when someone says you don’t have to pay anything. If you have been paying £50 per every hundred and someone says it’s now £60, despite reasons for staying sometimes it goes too far. That’s what Labour has achieved

[Sir Ralph]

7 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

What do you do Sir Ralph?

I’m in real estate

[Farmer Saint]

9 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Most of them have retained property and assets (beyond their personal) homes but have stopped or limited investment in the uk.

Other than 2 mentioned the rest are significantly beyond the bracket you mentioned. They own significant stakes in companies or signicant assets in the uk. 

Which they will still pay tax on though...what have they gained from moving to Dubai?

Edited Friday at 12:22 by Farmer Saint

[Sir Ralph]

2 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Which they will still pay tax on though...that's the point of non-dom taxes yeah?

Hi mate I’ll respond tomorow - just heading for dinner. Enjoy rest of your day

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, Sir Ralph said:

Hi mate I’ll respond tomorow - just heading for dinner. Enjoy rest of your day

Have fun mate - look forwards to your responses.

Just as an FYI, people of that profile don't tend to move to Dubai - Dubai tends to be workers rather than business owners.

Perhaps tomorrow you can make up some more convincing stories about millionaires.

[Farmer Saint]

7 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I’m in real estate

Ah, it's an industry I know well - what sector are you in?

[egg]

3 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

Always someone else’s fault that is the Labour motto. Most of my clients have moved to Dubai or others. Wealth creators, capital and those creating jobs have left and that has destroyed business networks. Never happened under the previous government. I agree they underperformed but nothing like the long term damage that Labour have created. If you think these lot have done anything but a terrible job I would question your judgement or understanding of capitalist markets. They have managed to do this all in one year. The thing with Labour is that they are socialist so they don’t understand or want to understand it

What long term damage has been caused in one year of labour that is unrelated to 14 years of the conservatives? 

[badgerx16]

Nobody moves to Dubai out of altruism.

[egg]

22 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Nobody moves to Dubai out of altruism.

Edit - just caught up with the thread and the point about people going overseas to pay less tax being selfish economic migrants has been covered. 

Edited Friday at 12:54 by egg

[Sheaf Saint]

11 minutes ago, egg said:

What long term damage has been caused in one year of labour that is unrelated to 14 years of the conservatives? 

Remember the "There's no money left" note that Liam Byrne jokingly penned in 2010? That was used by so many on the right to excuse poor government performance for many years after Cameron & Clegg took office. And now many of the same people* seem to expect Labour to have completely fixed the absolute clusterfuck they inherited within a year. 

And this isn't meant as a ringing endorsement of Starmer and Reeves' performance in government, because clearly they've made a lot of mistakes so far and I'm far from impressed with them. But I'm not dumb enough to expect miracles from them either.

* Not referring to anyone specifically on this thread, just right wing commentators in general.

[Sir Ralph]

36 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Have fun mate - look forwards to your responses.

Just as an FYI, people of that profile don't tend to move to Dubai - Dubai tends to be workers rather than business owners.

Perhaps tomorrow you can make up some more convincing stories about millionaires.

Hey buddy keep enjoying your non exec director role - I heard it was Woolworths?

[Farmer Saint]

7 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Hey buddy keep enjoying your non exec director role - I heard it was Woolworths?

I have multiple, but thanks, I will.

I thought you couldn't respond because you were going for dinner? 😂

Edited Friday at 13:06 by Farmer Saint

[Sir Ralph]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

I thought you couldn't respond because you were going for dinner? 😂

I am mate but, as Jason and kylie said, it’s specially for you

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, Sir Ralph said:

I am mate but, as Jason and kylie said, it’s specially for you

It's fine mate, you've been rumbled 👍

[Sir Ralph]

3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

It's fine mate, you've been rumbled 👍

I have buddy well done. To be honest I don’t care.

up the saints hope we win tomorrow enjoy the game

Edited Friday at 13:12 by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

5 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I have buddy well done. To be honest I don’t care.

up the saints hope we win tomorrow enjoy the game

I will agree with you there - UTS.

[Sir Ralph]

Back from dinner. The subject of the conversation is whether Labour has done a good or bad job on the economy. So far I’ve heard

1. It’s the tories fault 

2. I have no clue. 

3. It’s other external problems 

Even with evidence the dial switches with left wing but nobody has said they have done a good job or stood up for their policies. Any further comments please focus on this point and justify why labours policies have helped to grow the economy. 

Edited yesterday at 03:06 by Sir Ralph

[Sir Ralph]

14 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

Hey buddy keep enjoying your non exec director role - I heard it was Woolworths?

 

14 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

I have multiple, but thanks, I will.

I thought you couldn't respond because you were going for dinner? 😂

I’ve worked with a lot of successful people and never once come across anyone with this attitude to business and economic growth. At least not anyone that would last long advising in any sort of half functional business.

Also business owners don’t move to Dubai? 

What have they gained from going to Dubai - they don’t want to invest in the uk anymore. They have moved abroad so their foreign investments aren’t taxed.

Edited yesterday at 03:07 by Sir Ralph

[Sir Ralph]

5 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Have fun mate - look forwards to your responses.

Just as an FYI, people of that profile don't tend to move to Dubai - Dubai tends to be workers rather than business owners.

Perhaps tomorrow you can make up some more convincing stories about millionaires.

.

 

Edited Friday at 17:36 by Sir Ralph

[Sir Ralph]

40 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

 

I’ve worked with a lot of successful people and never once come across anyone with this attitude to business and economic growth. At least not anyone that would last long advising in any sort of half functional business.

Also business owners don’t move to Dubai? Let’s be honest this shows you have no clue. 

What have they gained from going to Dubai - they don’t want to invest in the uk anymore. They have moved abroad so their foreign investments aren’t taxed FFS. Google it buddy - it’s funny debating socialists cause they don’t understand basic economics. 
 

I was the one watching tik tok. If any of you chaps actually had to debate this in person it would be embarrassing. Sharpen up chaps before pretending you have a clue

Well done TDMickey - so far you managed 3 words - shy or stupid?

Edited Friday at 18:10 by Sir Ralph

[egg]

51 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Back from dinner. The subject of the conversation is whether Labour has done a good or bad job on the economy. So far I’ve heard

1. It’s the tories fault 

2. I’m an idiot that has no clue. 

3. It’s other external problems 

Even with evidence the dial switches with left wing nutters but nobody has said they have done a good job or stood up for their policies. Any further comments please focus on this point and justify why labours policies have helped to grow the economy. 

You told us that labour have caused irreparable long term damage in their year to date. 

What long term damage has been caused in one year of labour that is unrelated to 14 years of the conservatives? Actually, what long term damage have they caused full stop? 

[Sir Ralph]

8 hours ago, egg said:

You told us that labour have caused irreparable long term damage in their year to date. 

What long term damage has been caused in one year of labour that is unrelated to 14 years of the conservatives? Actually, what long term damage have they caused full stop? 

I never ever mentioned the tories. Again I make the point if Juric said “I’m rubbish cause of Russell Martin” would that be an acceptable response.

There is always context - my point to you is have labour done a good job economically regardless of any excuses to blame others? Have labours decisions been good ones economically. Please just respond to that as nobody will answer it.

I’ve explained the long term damage they have created (ni increases, capital gains tax and non dom status changes) from high net worth individuals and job creators leaving and the impact on business networks.

Edited yesterday at 03:08 by Sir Ralph

[egg]

7 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I never ever mentioned the tories. Again I make the point if Juric said “I’m crap cause of Russell Martin” would that be an acceptable response.

There is always context - my point to you is have labour done a good job economically regardless of any excuses to blame others? Have labours decisions been good ones economically. Please just respond to that as nobody will answer it.

I’ve explained the long term damage they have created (ni increases, capital gains tax and non dom status changes) from high net worth individuals and job creators leaving and the impact on business networks. Unfortunately if you don’t get business you will never understand

I didn't say that yiu mentioned the Tories. My question did.

Labour have made crap decisions.

NI changes are not long term. They were daft though. 

CGT changes. Are you referring to BDR or CGT generally? They ain't long term though, and the BDR changes were needed to shut off a massive tax avoidance issue. 

Non dom. Again, needed. 

2 out your 3 points seem to point to selfish people wanting to leg it, or stay, somewhere where they can pay less tax. 

[badgerx16]

Surely we are at lkeast 4 years too early to determine if Labour have caused 'long term damage' ? Is their potential 'damage' a greater hit to the economy than Brexit ?

Personally I think they have been underwhelming, especially when compared to the previous 3 Tory regimes, and I think Reeves is at best mediocre. Still, a few years left to see if they can improve things.

 

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

I didn't say that yiu mentioned the Tories. My question did.

Labour have made crap decisions.

NI changes are not long term. They were daft though. 

CGT changes. Are you referring to BDR or CGT generally? They ain't long term though, and the BDR changes were needed to shut off a massive tax avoidance issue. 

Non dom. Again, needed. 

2 out your 3 points seem to point to selfish people wanting to leg it, or stay, somewhere where they can pay less tax. 

No, it's because Labour hate them and don't understand business, ( or something ).

[Sir Ralph]

Chaps you may want to call them selfish. Three questions 

1. Would you prefer they stayed and paid their significant taxes toward the public purse?

2. Why do you think they have left the uk?

3. If they were paying millions of pounds in tax already, well beyond their burden, are they selfish for getting fed up for leaving to pay zero tax elsewhere?

My general observation is socialists call successful capitalists “greedy” even though they wouldn’t have a clue or the mental drive how to achieve like them. 

Edited yesterday at 03:10 by Sir Ralph

[Sir Ralph]

8 hours ago, egg said:

I didn't say that yiu mentioned the Tories. My question did.

Labour have made crap decisions.

NI changes are not long term. They were daft though. 

CGT changes. Are you referring to BDR or CGT generally? They ain't long term though, and the BDR changes were needed to shut off a massive tax avoidance issue. 

Non dom. Again, needed. 

2 out your 3 points seem to point to selfish people wanting to leg it, or stay, somewhere where they can pay less tax. 

Call them selfish whatever - they are leaving because of government policy. Significant amounts of tax revenue are no longer available. Government policy around taxing the wealthy has backfired- tell me who will make up the difference of this unnecessary political point scoring mess?

Edited yesterday at 03:09 by Sir Ralph

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Personally I think they have been underwhelming, especially when compared to the previous 3 Tory regimes, and I think Reeves is at best mediocre. Still, a few years left to see if they can improve things.

 

That’s a pretty fair reflection.

They were handed a pretty awful situation, but have made a complete and utter Horlicks of fixing it. There can’t be anyone who thought it would be as bad as this, I don’t think anyone was expecting Blair like popularity, but nobody could have thought him & his chancellor would be this incompetent.
 

I can’t see any improvement coming unless they ditch the dud.There’s no joined up thinking, no strategic planning, or direction. They just stumble along from one fuck up to another. You could disagree with Thatcher & Blair, but they knew where they were going and how they were going to change the country. They knew their aims and they knew the levers they were going to pull to achieve them. This bloke seems to think that by just announcing things and talking about “change” that it’ll miraculously happen. 

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, Sir Ralph said:

Back from dinner. The subject of the conversation is whether Labour has done a good or bad job on the economy. So far I’ve heard

1. It’s the tories fault 

2. I’m an idiot that has no clue. 

3. It’s other external problems 

Even with evidence the dial switches with left wing nutters but nobody has said they have done a good job or stood up for their policies. Any further comments please focus on this point and justify why labours policies have helped to grow the economy. 

Don't think anyone has really argued that Labour's policies have helped to grow the economy. They've been shit so far. 

Still prefer to have them in charge than either Badenoch or Farage though.

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, Sir Ralph said:

 

I’ve worked with a lot of successful people and never once come across anyone with this attitude to business and economic growth. At least not anyone that would last long advising in any sort of half functional business.

Also business owners don’t move to Dubai? Let’s be honest this shows you have no clue. 

What have they gained from going to Dubai - they don’t want to invest in the uk anymore. They have moved abroad so their foreign investments aren’t taxed FFS. Google it buddy - it’s funny debating socialists cause they don’t understand basic economics. 
 

I was the one watching tik tok. If any of you chaps actually had to debate this in person it would be embarrassing. Sharpen up chaps before pretending you have a clue

I literally have two degrees. One in Law, one in Economics. You telling fibs and trying to gaslight your way into an argument is not going to cut the cloth at this table I'm afraid.

You said they left their assets and businesses in the UK. To get the money out of them they will be taxed, heavily. Why would they do that? The tax burden has already been set.

Edited Friday at 19:20 by Farmer Saint

[egg]

25 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

That’s a pretty fair reflection.

They were handed a pretty awful situation, but have made a complete and utter Horlicks of fixing it. There can’t be anyone who thought it would be as bad as this, I don’t think anyone was expecting Blair like popularity, but nobody could have thought him & his chancellor would be this incompetent.
 

I can’t see any improvement coming unless they ditch the dud.There’s no joined up thinking, no strategic planning, or direction. They just stumble along from one fuck up to another. You could disagree with Thatcher & Blair, but they knew where they were going and how they were going to change the country. They knew their aims and they knew the levers they were going to pull to achieve them. This bloke seems to think that by just announcing things and talking about “change” that it’ll miraculously happen. 

For the first time on politics, agreed. 

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, egg said:

For the first time on politics, agreed. 

Yeah, I liked his post as well.

I feel dirty.

Edited Friday at 19:22 by Farmer Saint

[badgerx16]

34 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I literally have two degrees. One in Law, one in Economics. 

If you swapped the Law degree for Maths you would be half of a Perfect Cousin.

Edited Friday at 19:48 by badgerx16

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

Half of a Perfect Cousin.

My teenage self would have got kicks out of that joke.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

5 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

If you swapped the Law degree for Maths you would be half of a Perfect Cousin.

We'd later learn that a good heart was hard to find. But that was just when I got my degree in bionics.

[badgerx16]

Just now, Holmes_and_Watson said:

We'd later learn that a good heart was hard to find. But that was just when I got my degree in bionics.

But do you know how to 'flick to kick' ? ( Personally, I always wanted a Dukla Prague away kit, but maybe I am half biscuit ).

[Holmes_and_Watson]

12 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

But do you know how to 'flick to kick' ? ( Personally, I always wanted a Dukla Prague away kit, but maybe I am half biscuit ).

I learned all the tricks reading Mike's Mini-Men.

Later, when I added my robotics degree to my one in bionics, I combined my Mini-Men with General Jumbo. I'm now on retainer to the armed forces, as about the only force they can deploy without overspend or US maintenance.

Which, I concede, has had an impact on UK defence companies, slowing all that economic growth I keep reading about (Yes! Back on topic!)

[whelk]

News never seen on Batman’s feed

https://news.sky.com/story/hundreds-arrested-in-week-long-crackdown-on-asylum-seekers-working-for-delivery-companies-13408891

[AlexLaw76]

41 minutes ago, whelk said:

News never seen on Batman’s feed

https://news.sky.com/story/hundreds-arrested-in-week-long-crackdown-on-asylum-seekers-working-for-delivery-companies-13408891

Good news. However, all those detained have to say is that their country of origin does not produce adequate chicken nuggets, or something equally ridiculous, and they will just have to stay - human rights, innit. 

Edited yesterday at 07:14 by AlexLaw76

[whelk]

Faith, family and fishing - the unlikely bond between JD Vance and David Lammy https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czr68vde7nvo
 

For those thinking Lammy is a liability, he has connected well with Vance. 
I’ll give credit to Starmer and co on the foreign front - been pretty effective in the first year. 

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Good news. However, all those detained have to say is that their country of origin does not produce adequate chicken nuggets, or something equally ridiculous, and they will just have to stay - human rights, innit. 

I'm fairly sure the quality of chicken nuggets is not an adequate defense.

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

Faith, family and fishing - the unlikely bond between JD Vance and David Lammy https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czr68vde7nvo
 

For those thinking Lammy is a liability, he has connected well with Vance. 
I’ll give credit to Starmer and co on the foreign front - been pretty effective in the first year. 

That's only because they're acting like the only adults in the room. That is, and always has been, one of Starmer's strengths.

[whelk]

8 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I'm fairly sure the quality of chicken nuggets is not an adequate defense.

Bloke on Reddit said otherwise though 

[rallyboy]

When Rupert Lowe sees Lammy stood there next to the water he's going to explode with rage.

[Gloucester Saint]

13 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Yeah, I liked his post as well.

I feel dirty.

Ditto. If I start using ‘Pony’ on the match thread he’s definitely got into my head.

[whelk]

13 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

But do you know how to 'flick to kick' ? ( Personally, I always wanted a Dukla Prague away kit, but maybe I am half biscuit ).

Any thoughts about Nerys Hughes?

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

Any thoughts about Nerys Hughes?

I don't particularly hate her, but I do know that there is nothing better in life than writing on the sole of your slipper with a biro, on a Saturday night instead of going down the pub.

[east-stand-nic]

16 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

Well done TDMickey - so far you managed 3 words - shy or stupid?

Blimey, were you really expecting anything from the forum punchbag? The bloke is a made up character I think. he never makes sensible replies to anyone or anything. he just tries to be funny, but fails at that also. As likely you know, this is the way of the left. I remember well when the Tories took over after Labour last time, that they blamed Labour for the financial mess the country was it. ALL lefties I knew were all over them for this. But it is OK now for them to use that excuse. The left are chronic hypocrites. They also never listen and as soon as you prove their limited knowledge wrong, they make jokes and berate as they have nothing to say. I have caught out so many on here doing the same thing, then they get nasty when you tie them up in knots. 

For the record, I hate them all and do not consider myself right or left. None of them give a flying fook about the masses. To believe they do is to be an idealistic teenager, which most lefties are. 

[tdmickey3]

31 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

Blimey, were you really expecting anything from the forum punchbag? The bloke is a made up character I think. he never makes sensible replies to anyone or anything. he just tries to be funny, but fails at that also. As likely you know, this is the way of the left. I remember well when the Tories took over after Labour last time, that they blamed Labour for the financial mess the country was it. ALL lefties I knew were all over them for this. But it is OK now for them to use that excuse. The left are chronic hypocrites. They also never listen and as soon as you prove their limited knowledge wrong, they make jokes and berate as they have nothing to say. I have caught out so many on here doing the same thing, then they get nasty when you tie them up in knots. 

For the record, I hate them all and do not consider myself right or left. None of them give a flying fook about the masses. To believe they do is to be an idealistic teenager, which most lefties are. 

The loon waffles again, tell us another one of your batshit conspiracy theories they are always worth a good laugh

[tdmickey3]

17 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

Well done TDMickey - so far you managed 3 words - shy or stupid?

No need to reply to you, you are making a complete fool of yourself, to save you more embarrassment I won’t add to it