The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[whelk]

22 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Right but if someone takes an issue with a policy - friends I have for example who sacrificed a lot to send their children to private school who have really found things difficult with the sudden Vat rise -that's not really something to mock or suggest they aren't deserving of some empathy. Yes their initial position could be viewed as privileged but it doesn't mean they don't have real world concerns like anyone else. Thays just one example by the way , it's the same for things like farmers with some genuinely fretting about how they will continue to operate their farm without packing it in.

I am not by any means saying I am some anthropological good guy. Everyone’s situation can deserve sympathy on an individual basis. Private schools should not be exempt from VAT and I was largely privately educated and my dad made sacrifices to send me. Everything should get to an equilibrium and I am fully aware the wealthy have the lobbying power and control the narrative for the deferential. So much of it is bs and that isn’t from the ‘politics of envy’

[Sir Ralph]

8 minutes ago, whelk said:

I am not by any means saying I am some anthropological good guy. Everyone’s situation can deserve sympathy on an individual basis. Private schools should not be exempt from VAT and I was largely privately educated and my dad made sacrifices to send me. Everything should get to an equilibrium and I am fully aware the wealthy have the lobbying power and control the narrative for the deferential. So much of it is bs and that isn’t from the ‘politics of envy’

As a matter of principle, why should private schools be subject to VAT? Genuine question.

Edited 6 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

7 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

As a matter of principle, why should private schools be subject to VAT? Genuine question.

Because it's a luxury to be able to send your kids to private school. Why shouldn't they be?

Edited 6 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[Farmer Saint]

48 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

No I don’t - I made it all up. I thought that saying I knew about public sector inefficiency would make me cool. 

Yeah, thought not 👍

You do have history for not being able to back yourself in your tenure on here.

Edited 6 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[Sir Ralph]

8 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Because it's a luxury to be able to send your kids to private school. Why shouldn't they be?

I was hoping to engage Whelk on this as he made the point. The unusual thing is that I've never met a wealthy person who wants to pay more tax or agrees with paying VAT on private schools. Yet on this forum there seem to be quite a few of them....all very strange.

Edited 6 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

3 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I was hoping to engage Whelk on this as he made the point. The unusual thing is that I've never met a wealthy person who wants to pay more tax or agrees with paying VAT on private schools. Yet on this forum there seem to be quite a few of them....all very strange.

I think the problem is that your people are made up. Gotta have pretty low self-esteem for your made-up friends to be cunts...

Edited 6 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[egg]

7 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I was hoping to engage Whelk on this as he made the point. The unusual thing is that I've never met a wealthy person who wants to pay more tax or agrees with paying VAT on private schools. Yet on this forum there seem to be quite a few of them....all very strange.

Alas many wealthy people are selfish. Not all though, fortunately. 

[Sir Ralph]

Just now, egg said:

Alas many wealthy people are selfish. Not all though, fortunately. 

Not wanting to pay tax doesnt make you selfish! If there was a minimum tax level and a voluntarily option to pay more tax, then would the lefties on here pay more tax for the good of the state? I assume you think the Tube strikers are selfish?

[whelk]

11 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I was hoping to engage Whelk on this as he made the point. The unusual thing is that I've never met a wealthy person who wants to pay more tax or agrees with paying VAT on private schools. Yet on this forum there seem to be quite a few of them....all very strange.

You don’t seem to grasp it. It isn’t a want. VAT on private schools is more ideological and there is no reason for them to be exempt. 
And weird that every wealthy person you speak to talks about private education and their view on VAT. Many still will use state education. Anyway that’s me for the day - not in the Uk and shouldn’t be distracted with largely tedious debate

[Sir Ralph]

 

12 minutes ago, whelk said:

You don’t seem to grasp it. It isn’t a want. VAT on private schools is more ideological and there is no reason for them to be exempt. 
And weird that every wealthy person you speak to talks about private education and their view on VAT. Many still will use state education. Anyway that’s me for the day - not in the Uk and shouldn’t be distracted with largely tedious debate

Thats pedantic.

Edited 5 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

I have friends who are incredibly wealthy. One is almost certainly worth over £100 million and someone I see probably every other week so a very good mate.  I also have a fair few friends who probably view me as the wealthy one.  So no dislike of people with wealth. however I loathe the greed of some wealthy, not generally the people i associate with,  who should have more humility and reflect with a ‘There by the grace of God go I’ approach rather than the selfish ‘it’s all mine’ outlook.

Similar, maybe not £100m but quite a few friends from university days who are in the tens of millions worth and more than the likes of Rupert Lowe (but way better human beings).

It buys you out of some of life’s everyday stresses but does make them happy? Only if they’ve got the same balancing factors that create a happy environment/family/friends and that is very rarely ‘things’ and the expensive holidays and cars wear off. Most of them don’t flaunt it either.

One of them has gone through a very expensive divorce where the lawyers have pocketed a sum that would buy you a 5 bed house even up here. His wife has lied through her teeth from spite and hence he only sees his kids on a very limited basis until their court case has its next hearing. So he’s no happier or better off than than a bloke using Fathers for Justice who grits the roads for a living. 

[Weston Super Saint]

36 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Yeah, thought not 👍

You do have history for not being able to back yourself in your tenure on here.

#still_obsessed

[Sir Ralph]

9 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

#still_obsessed

😆

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Sir Ralph]

15 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Similar, maybe not £100m but quite a few friends from university days who are in the tens of millions worth and more than the likes of Rupert Lowe (but way better human beings).

It buys you out of some of life’s everyday stresses but does make them happy? Only if they’ve got the same balancing factors that create a happy environment/family/friends and that is very rarely ‘things’ and the expensive holidays and cars wear off. Most of them don’t flaunt it either.

One of them has gone through a very expensive divorce where the lawyers have pocketed a sum that would buy you a 5 bed house even up here. His wife has lied through her teeth from spite and hence he only sees his kids on a very limited basis until their court case has its next hearing. So he’s no happier or better off than than a bloke using Fathers for Justice who grits the roads for a living. 

You're spot on. Great post

Edited 5 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[egg]

26 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Not wanting to pay tax doesnt make you selfish! If there was a minimum tax level and a voluntarily option to pay more tax, then would the lefties on here pay more tax for the good of the state? I assume you think the Tube strikers are selfish?

That's a daft hypothetical.

I don't vote with my bank balance in mind, and I'm comfortable that my vote is always in favour of a taxing party. If I voted for a party with the primary intention of keeping more cash in my pocket, regardless of the impact on society (less necessary spending for example), then my outlook is selfish (and greedy). I get that you don't see that, and that's because are politics and outlooks are at opposite poles. 

I'm not getting into a strike debate. CBA. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Nobody wants to pay more tax, some people just pretend they do. 
 

It’s actually pretty easy to pay more, amazing how little is collected from so many willing to do so…

[Sir Ralph]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

That's a daft hypothetical.

I don't vote with my bank balance in mind, and I'm comfortable that my vote is always in favour of a taxing party. If I voted for a party with the primary intention of keeping more cash in my pocket, regardless of the impact on society (less necessary spending for example), then my outlook is selfish (and greedy). I get that you don't see that, and that's because are politics and outlooks are at opposite poles. 

I'm not getting into a strike debate. CBA. 

So you wouldn’t pay more. By the logic applied by the lefties on here that’s selfish.

[egg]

Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

Nobody wants to pay more tax, some people just pretend they do. 
 

It’s actually pretty easy to pay more, amazing how little is collected from so many willing to do so…

Nobody "wants" to, or has said that they do. Rather, some people accept that paying less has a knock on impact that they're not comfortable with, and that paying more should achieve the opposite. 

[egg]

1 minute ago, Sir Ralph said:

So you wouldn’t pay more. By the logic applied by the lefties on here that’s selfish.

You're making less sense as the day goes on mate. 

[Farmer Saint]

Exactly, I voted Labour at the last election fully expecting to pay more tax (even after being told no tax rises - I thought they were lying). I expected top rate of tax back up to 50%, and other associated wealth taxes. Shame they've got no balls.

[Farmer Saint]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

You're making less sense as the day goes on mate. 

He's all over the place all the time, don't worry.

[trousers]

26 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Exactly, I voted Labour at the last election fully expecting to pay more tax (even after being told no tax rises - I thought they were lying). I expected top rate of tax back up to 50%, and other associated wealth taxes. Shame they've got no balls.

Nothing stopping you paying additional tax to the treasury any time you like... Don't need to wait for a government to make you do it...

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

Nothing stopping you paying additional tax to the treasury any time you like... Don't need to wait for a government to make you do it...

But it won't make a difference - the point is I'm happy to pay if the burden is shared and a difference is made. 

[trousers]

11 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

But it won't make a difference

If every like minded person paid extra it would, wouldn't it?

[egg]

How have we gone from people voting in the knowledge that their tax bill won't go down (and will probably go up) to the ridiculous idea of popping an unsolicited cheque in the post to HMRC?! For feck sake. 

[Farmer Saint]

11 minutes ago, trousers said:

If every like minded person paid extra it would, wouldn't it?

Yeah, as would just putting up taxes? Would it only be people who are happy to pay more taxes? I am happy to pay more taxes if everyone else pays those extra taxes. Is that clearer?

Edited 4 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[Farmer Saint]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

How have we gone from people voting in the knowledge that their tax bill won't go down (and will probably go up) to the ridiculous idea of popping an unsolicited cheque in the post to HMRC?! For feck sake. 

Fucking mental place this.

[Sir Ralph]

3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Fucking mental place this.

It’s just lucky that we have you guys to make sure there is some sanity…phew. Well done, great work.

Edited 4 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

It’s just lucky that we have you guys to make sure there is some sanity…phew. Well done, great work.

This guy eh..? 😂😂😂

[whelk]

3 hours ago, egg said:

How have we gone from people voting in the knowledge that their tax bill won't go down (and will probably go up) to the ridiculous idea of popping an unsolicited cheque in the post to HMRC?! For feck sake. 

Yeah, usual fucking morons who seem to think it’s some sort of gotcha. Can’t seem to comprehend we want lots of people to pay more tax you so the treasury gets extra billions that can actually make a difference to services/society, not we want to send in our own personal cheques for ideological reasons, so why, don’t we?Honestly, only on Saintsweb do I come across such stupid people that need to have the most simplest (you’d think) of rationales explained. And they get so sensitive when they are referred to what they are, thick cunts.